Posted by Indie on July 26, 2004, at 21:50:19
In reply to Re: Questions about Phenylalanine and more. » Indie, posted by Larry Hoover on July 25, 2004, at 8:43:22
Hi Lar,
Thanks for all of the information. All of the stuff that I am asking about is definately a way into the future after I get the multi-vitamin/mineral stuff going, I am just trying to get a grasp on all of this stuff for my own knowledge.
> > As additional info, my manias are very easy to control, lamictal pretty much does the job. I find it a bit confusing that half of my manias are euphoric and half miserabely dysphoric.
>
> My instant intuition is that one is A, the other is A and B. If you could control factor B, you'd be addressing the dysphoric disturbance more closely. That's how my brain models things. Of course, identifying factor B is harder than modelling it.Those A and B factors are the things that I am trying to focus in on.
> What exactly is in the anti-homocysteine?
The anti-homocysteine formula is a thing that my doctor recomment that I take with the SAM-e. It is a combination of B-12 (Methcobalamin), B-6 (Pyridoxine HCL), Folic Acid and Trimethylglycine (I have NO idea what that is). My pharmacist also said that it was a good idea. The bottle says that it reduces homocysteine to methionine. I looked up some articles that said that bi-polars with continued psycho-social impairment even when non-symptomatic tend to have high homocysteine levels in their blood. It also indicated that people low in Folic Acid and B-12 tend to be low in SAM-e. From that perspective, it seems to me that by taking SAM-e and the anti-homocysteine is trying to tackle the same deficiency from two different angles...but what do I know??
> That happens a lot, when you substantially push the activity of a single biochemical process. You've probably so substantially increased your B-vitamin demand that your body is shifting into stress.
Hmmm. Good to know. I am planning on adding a B-Complex this Friday after I have some tests done just to see if I can get a baseline of critical deficiencies so I can have a better idea of what I am doing.
> > Now I know that SAMe is a methyl donor that allows the tryptophan-5HTP-5HT process and the tyrosine-dopamine-norepinephrine process to work.
>
> The more I look at that, the more I wonder where that idea came from. The only methylation process among the major neurotransmitters is the conversion of norepinephrine (noradrenaline) to epinephrine (adrenaline). Methylation *is* a key process in DNA transcription, and thus protein formation---> enzymes in general, receptors in general, etc.That's a bit disturbing as I read the information in a couple of medical journals. I guess it is just an indication of how little anybody really understands about the processes that go on in the brain.
> > I also know that people advise Bipolars not to take the stuff as it may cause mania, however my doc and pharmacist both said that this really wasn't true.
>
> It's not one of those things you can predict. What makes SAMe different from other interventions is that if you use it sensibly, activation can be noted, and the supplement stopped, long before frank mania ensues.At this point I would welcome a little mania anyway :-)
> See above. B-vitamin stress. You need a B-complex, and multimineral formulation. More specific recommendations come from specific symptoms. Anxiety could arise from niacin stress (niacinamide is the treatment, not niacin). Magnesium stress. Lots of things. Carpet bomb your body with general nutrients first, though.
Again, I am waiting until Friday to start a serious vitamin regiment until I get the tests done. Will begin on Friday.
>
> Get the B-complex and multiminerals going first. And, I'm astounded, as I read through your post, that nobody has yet suggested fish oil to you. Or antioxidants. Take fish oil with your biggest meal(s) of the day (same with the other supps). Start at 3 grams/day, and work up, as tolerated, to 5-7 grams. You need vitamin E to protect the fish oil, 400 IU (and vitamin C, too, 1,000 mg).I actually do take fish oil supplements, 2.5 grams 2X/day. I know with all of the information that has come out about Omega-3, it would be silly not to take these supplements. Nobody has ever recommended anti-oxidants at all. I guess that it would be a good assumption, just never thought of it. I know that there is some danger of getting too much vitamin A. Can you speak to that at all?
As a side note to that, do you happen to know if there are Omega-3 supplements available for infants? I have a 9mo old nephew who has mental illness on both sides of his family so I fear that the cards are stacked against him. I tried to convince my sister to take fish-oil while she was pregnant and breast feeding because I have read that it can substantially reduce the risk of the infant developing MI later in life. Unfortunately she could not keep them down. I figure that getting Omega and vitamin supplements going in his early life may reduce the risk of having to use more drastic interventions in his later life.
> > The reason that I am wondering about glutamine is because of an experience that my doctor had many moons ago. He was working on a study at the University of Texas doing blood tests for nutritional status. Just for kicks he decided to get himself tested. After a few weeks his motivation increased dramatically. Over several months he lost over 30 lbs without even thinking about it. They did a mini study on the issue and the results were duplicated in patients with a family history of depression and diabetes.
>
> Hmmm....gonna come back to that.I am interested to see from the tests that I am going to take if I am deficient in Glutamine.
> > I have two reasons for interest in this. The first is because I have motivation problems even when I am symptom free. The second is that my sister is clinically obese. She eats a pretty good diet and runs frequently but still gains weight.
>
> Could be a chromium problem. Gonna come back to it.Would the chromium cause the lack of motivation or just the weight gain?? I'll check that out and see what I can find.
>
> The presumption that your body has the nutrients it needs to fully utilize these treatments suggested by your pdoc may not be valid.Point well taken. I will definately start the Multi and B-Complex and wait awhile before looking all of the other stuff. Of course, if these tests show any gross deficiencies, I will address those as well. Still not sure if these tests are worth anything but all I have to lose is money. If I don't get this stuff under control, I may very well lose my life (as was the fate of my father) so I am willing to try anything that might help.
Thanks again for all the info. I will update you on the results of the tests and any interventions that are recommended as a result just so you can add it to your treasure-trove of knowledge.
Indie
poster:Indie
thread:369909
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040718/msgs/370954.html