Posted by steven landau on October 5, 2003, at 14:45:59
In reply to Re: Vicodin and Everything Is AOK......... » steven landau, posted by BarbaraCat on October 2, 2003, at 1:16:48
Thanks, Barbara, for the excellent advice. I am going to look into some of the ideas that you offered regarding liver health. By the way, in reading the message that I posted only a week ago, I noticed that I am already taking more Vicodin than what I said I was...I definitely see what you mean about tolerances. I will try your approach to stopping for a week or so to see if that resets the levels. I totally agree that the combination of Vicodin and wine does slow everything down nicely. I wouldn't say that I am doing housework, however, when I am on it, more likely just sitting and enjoying it, maybe watching a movie or reading. I am also, taking anti-depressants, fairly low dosages of Wellbutrin and Zoloft. I have been on these for about seven years, and it works well. I will try to contact you through this list if I have any further questions or need some more advice. I am reachable at sl@touchgraphic.com. Thanks again for the help, and good luck with your battles.
> Hi Steven,
> I did 1-2 Vicondins and 2-3 glasses chardonnay almost every night for a long time, maybe 10 years or so. Sometimes the wine was more, sometimes less. I really enjoyed the feeling from it, a nice warm buzzy feeling. I remember coming home from work just beat, ready to do the couch potato rag, but then my little cocktail would brighten me up considerably. I got alot accomplished on it too, would clean the house, play piano, exercise, call friends, be in a much better mood. As long as I didn't overdo either one it didn't bother me much the next day. In fact, if I did drink more than my limit, the Vicodin helped to prevent the morning after effects. I never developed a jones for it and not much tolerance - stayed at the same level for all those years.
>
> I really don't know the ratio of the opiod to acetominophen, but you can bet that your liver is not too happy about the wine. In fact, if you're on any mood disorder meds or any other kind of meds, the liver has to work extra hard to metabolize them. If you stick to the amount of wine you mentioned it's not like you're on the fast path to cirhossis, but you definitely don't want to be imbibing more than that.
>
> Now that I'm dealing with fibromyaligia I wish I had been a little more conscientious about liver health because I could use all the healing support I can get. I do take opiods now because of fibro pain, but I can't afford to combine them with wine any longer. This is too bad because this combo worked better than anything for depression and stress relief. The wine added an extra lovliness to it. Sigh...
>
> The liver is overworked in general with the crappy lifestyles we subject it to, and once it gets compromised all systems are affected and we feel bad. In Chinese medicine and acupunture, the liver meridian is the one most implicated in mood disorders. The good news is that it heals quickly if in relatively good health and there are ways of caring for it. So, here's some friendly advice on what to take to minimize liver distress:
>
> 1. Milk thistle, or sillimarin herb. This is a very powerful herbal liver support that's being used in mainstream medicine to reverse liver damage. You can get it at most health food stores. Get the powdered herb in capsules rather than a hard pill. This may be the only thing you'll need, but if you want do more, read on.
>
> 2. L-methionine is an amino acid that helps to detox the liver. In fact, go to a good health store and ask for a good liver detox formula. It'll have most everything you need in the way of liver support. Get a good multivitamin while you're there. Alcohol and drugs deplete B and C vitamins.
>
> 3. SAM-e is a very potent liver detoxifier, along with being good for depression. It can switch bipolars to hypomania, but I, as a BP-II, have never experienced that. It's expensive, however. A good brand is Nature Made. You can get it at Costco for the best price. 400mg should be sufficient for liver care.
>
> 4. Recent research is finding that adding a very small dose of naltrexone prevents opiod receptors from up regulating, thereby preventing tolerance and addiction. Naltrexone in larger doses binds to opium receptors and prevents the high, but in smaller doses simply stops the replication of ever-increasing hungry little receptor mouths. It's a prescription item and so new that most docs won't know what you're talking about, but this would be the best way to truly prevent tolerance.
>
> Another way is to not take it every night. Take a break, you can live without it for a few days, a week or longer. This will allow the receptors to down regulate and you'll enjoy the feeling much more when you resume. This also is a message to your greedy limbic mid-brain that you are in charge and will resolutely ignore any attempts to lure you into substance slavery. You have to be on top of that sneaky little bugger and not get to the point where you're higher reasoning cortex is bleary.
>
> Hope you can manage to use it on a maintenance dose and continue to enjoy yourself in good health. BarbaraCat
>
>
> > I just sent away for Vicodin from an internet site and I was amazed at how easy and fast and relatively cheap it was to get. Now, I am really enjoying it, but I have a few questions, and I was hoping somebody may have information.
> > 1. the pills I got are called Hydrocodone/APAP 7.5/500mg. How much of these are aceteminophin (Tylenol)? I read that it is is very bad for your liver to take too much of that on a regular basis. I have been only doing two of the the vicodins each nite (with two glasses of white wine). Is this a health issue? Am I going to want to do more and more and then get addicted and be one of those people who sleep on the street? Is this stupid to be doing? I realize that I am a person who loves taking drugs, and I have been looking around for something that was safer than street drugs but still felt really good and was available. Now, this seems to meet all my criteria, but I am a little worried. Any advice?
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poster:steven landau
thread:257135
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20030903/msgs/265741.html