Posted by Larry Hoover on April 18, 2005, at 9:53:19
In reply to GHB | Respiration | What does it all mean??? » Paulbwell, posted by mattw84 on April 17, 2005, at 1:00:24
> When chemist says "as long as we respire" the equivilent is "as long as we are alive..." Respiration has nothing to do with GHB -- it is merely a chemical precurser to what is found truly all "respiring" organisms with a neurosystem of any complexity. (GABA)
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> So as long as we are alive we are all high on GHB... that's right - no joke! Hope this clears things up.
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> Regards,
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> MattI would describe the system a little differently, rather than precursor/product,the system is one of complex equilibria. It's not a one-way street. There is two-way traffic.
I picture it as being similar to a mobile. You know, things hanging from various cross-bars (levers), dangling by strings. If you gently disturb the mobile, it oscillates, but returns to a stable state. That's how the GABA network works.
GHB is a member of this system, analogous to an element hanging in the mobile. It's a fairly heavy object (able to transfer a fair bit of momentum to the oscillations). GABA is also a heavy element in the mobile simile.
GHB and GABA have a common metabolic partner, succinic semialdehyde. By feedback regulation, the system is dampened, to retain a fairly stable GHB:GABA concentration ratio.
If you ingest GHB, it is like lifting that member of the mobile....remember, this is a fairly heavy object....and holding it aloft. All the members of the mobile adopt novel, but metastable, positions. Then, when your body metabolizes this bolus of GHB, it's like you let go of that heavy object in the mobile group, and the whole thing goes through periods of large oscillation (a real mobile would dance for a long time, in other words).
The critical factor here is recognizing just how dose sensitive the GHB/GABA network really is. There are doses of GHB which will hardly cause a ruccus in the rest of the system (GHB has its own receptors), whereas doses that substantially increase succininc semialdehyde concentration will inevitably perturb GABA. Also, at high concentrations, GHB agonizes the GABA(A) receptor. Other regulatory feedback elements will cause a rebound suppression in GABAergic activity, if the GHB dose is too large.
The sense of "too large" in this system is individual. The "too large" dose for you is different than mine is. Moreover, repeated dosing of GHB changes each individual's value.....i.e. the toxic intake dose for an individual is not a stable value. You may have handled a particular psychoactive dose in the past, without serious adverse events, but taking it another time might cause potentially fatal reactions (because of up- or down-regulation of feedback systems in the control of the complex equilibria).
There is a strong risk of addiction/tolerance with GHB, and its medical use must be closely monitored, IMHO. Long-term use, at appropriate doses, is quite safe. It's the psychological appeal to jack up the dose that's risky. Playing with GABA is literally quite pleasant. Properly dosing with GHB will only indirectly influence GABA....that's the desired outcome.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:484967
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20050323/msgs/485824.html