![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 41. Go back in thread:
Posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 17:35:49
In reply to Kerry B - Thoughts for you/update on me from Kath, posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 8:59:01
> Hi Kerry - I'm so glad your mum-in-law could take your kids for a bit. I hope you can do something "pampering" for yourself each & every day. It can be simple - perhaps a bubble-bath; renting a movie you've always wanted to see but haven't had time; pick a wild-flower & put it in a small vase or buy a flower or two from a florist for yourself; take out some music cassettes or CD's from the library; sit with your feet up & enjoy a book you like; sit in a room lighted by a few candles with some relaxing music & sip tea or herb tea...something to make you feel special & "worth it" because you are!!
>
> My situation is in a post from yesterday. Our son didn't contact us yesterday, but picked up his knapsack & sleeping bag from the back patio. In the night when I got up I saw that he was sleeping in his s-bag on the lounge out there. He had gone when we got up this morning. I really hope he will contact some of the resources that I wrote on the list I left for him. I think it's a help for me just to know that people know what's up for me right now.
>
> I'll be thinking of you. Kath
Hi Kath,
Thanks again for your lovely message. I do plan to do something nice for myself during the week and it works out that I haven't really much housework to do as I have done it bit by bit this week, so the place won't fall apart just in a week. I am so much looking forward to it but I will probably spend all my time on here, knowing me.
I just love to lay in the bath with candles burning, I find that so relaxing and it gives me time to think! I also want to have my hair tidied up, I have neglected it lately, being so pre-occupied with not feeling good, so if I can get over this drowsiness from the meds I'm on'I shall go to the hairdresser and be at the mercy of the scissors!
I'm sorry, I couldn't find your post from yesterday about your situation. I read one about your daughter and it sounded like she is doing well on her meds. Hope so. Does she suffer from depression? It's a horribe thing to go through as I have that part in my illness as well.
Do you know where your son has gone? It is a worry. Does he have depression as well? Sorry for asking, hope you don't mind.
I had my 18 yr old staying with me for 7 months and then one day he said he was going to the city and said he would be home on the Monday as it was a Friday when he left.
Monday came and he never showed up. I was worried and tried to contact him on his mobile but there was never any answer. To cut a long story short, four weeks passed and I made contact with him. He hadn't remembered himself telling me when he would be home. Actually, observing him here, I do believe he has problems but I'm not sure what at this stage.
I have witnessed him shouting at himself and then answering himself and things like that and I asked him one day about it and he had no recollection of it. It worries me but it is out of my hands now as he never came back, he stayed in the city and is still there.
Being a mother is so hard. It is added stress, but believe me, they, the kids, survive but as mothers we worry for them.
I do hope you hear from your son!!!!! He must have somewhere that he is going. Are you able to talk to him about it in a matter of fact way? Maybe that will help you find out what he's doing?
Please try not to worry, you know there is always someone watching over him, just keep that in mind!!!!!
I best go now as everyone is awake and I must get ready to do the shopping.
Take care Kath!!!!!!!!Kerry
Posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 21:07:03
In reply to Re: Kerry B - Thoughts for you Kath, posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 17:35:49
Hi Kerry - Thx for your note. I'll answer through it.
> Hi Kath,
> Thanks again for your lovely message. I do plan to do something nice for myself during the week and it works out that I haven't really much housework to do as I have done it bit by bit this week, so the place won't fall apart just in a week. I am so much looking forward to it but I will probably spend all my time on here, knowing me..............I'm glad you plan to do stuff for yourself. Let me know if you get your hair done. I find I can spend an inordinate amount of time here & I have to watch that it doesn't get out of control. The thing is, there are certain people who I seem to particularly relate to (just like in "in-person" life, I guess) & I care about them & what happens to them, so want to check in!
> I just love to lay in the bath with candles burning, I find that so relaxing and it gives me time to think! I also want to have my hair tidied up, I have neglected it lately, being so pre-occupied with not feeling good, so if I can get over this drowsiness from the meds I'm on'I shall go to the hairdresser and be at the mercy of the scissors!
> I'm sorry, I couldn't find your post from yesterday about your situation...........That post is below this one; it's dated yesterday & is titled something about "nice weekend; yucky homecoming" or something like that.
I read one about your daughter and it sounded like she is doing well on her meds. Hope so. Does she suffer from depression? It's a horribe thing to go through as I have that part in my illness as well.
................She has had depression and panic attacks & social anxiety probably all her life I now think. She has been on Mannerix for about 4 weeks & feels it kicking in now. She does extremely well with it. She has taken it 2 times before & stopped once because she felt "better" & felt she didn't need it. The second time she stopped because she didn't know if the "her on Mannerix" was REALLY her or just a chemically-induced her! She now realizes that depression can cause her to feel a certain way and if she takes the meds for the proper amount of time, it is possible that she might feel better even when she stops taking it.
> Do you know where your son has gone? It is a worry. Does he have depression as well? Sorry for asking, hope you don't mind.
.............I don't mind anybody asking me anything! I would just say if I didn't feel comfortable answering. I'm pretty hard to offend! My son spoke to me on the phone today; actually, he walked into our back yard when I was talking on the phone. He walked past me & put his jacket down. He looked extremely guilty. Phoned me shortly after & said "what's up" or something like that! He admitted to stealing the $160. from my purse. I'd made a list for him of house-finding resources, shelters, help-lines, etc & put a $10 phone card with them. On the phone I suggested he call his worker from his day-treatment/school (which just recently ended). I checked the phone & he'd called from his friend's, 2 doors away. I saw him later, walking down the street. He asked on the phone if he could get the support money that his biological dad sends me & get himself a place for the summer & deduct the $160 from the first payment!!!!!!!
He might be despressed, but marijuana is a depressant anyway, so he's been taking a depressant for well over a year & a half on a pretty-well daily basis! He's been involved with social workers, etc. & has had a psychiatrist test him for depression. They didn't suggest medication. He has certain issues (some with his bio-dad) that he knows are bothering him tremendously & I think he's self-medicating. No displays like your son's.> I had my 18 yr old staying with me for 7 months and then one day he said he was going to the city and said he would be home on the Monday as it was a Friday when he left.
> Monday came and he never showed up. I was worried and tried to contact him on his mobile but there was never any answer. To cut a long story short, four weeks passed and I made contact with him. He hadn't remembered himself telling me when he would be home. Actually, observing him here, I do believe he has problems but I'm not sure what at this stage.
> I have witnessed him shouting at himself and then answering himself and things like that and I asked him one day about it and he had no recollection of it. It worries me but it is out of my hands now as he never came back, he stayed in the city and is still there.
> Being a mother is so hard. It is added stress, but believe me, they, the kids, survive but as mothers we worry for them.
> I do hope you hear from your son!!!!! He must have somewhere that he is going. Are you able to talk to him about it in a matter of fact way? Maybe that will help you find out what he's doing?..............He did phone & we talked calmly, but he has his mind set on getting his own place with the support money so he didn't want to talk of anything else. Since he has addiction problems & hasn't displayed a speck of ability with financial management it would be ludicrous to give him money like that.
> Please try not to worry, you know there is always someone watching over him, just keep that in mind!!!!!
.............That's the think I hang onto. It does help alot.> I best go now as everyone is awake and I must get ready to do the shopping.
> Take care Kath!!!!!!!!
>
> Kerry.......I really appreciate your support.
Thanks & do take care & keep in touch.Kath
Posted by noa on July 7, 2000, at 8:55:42
In reply to Re: To noa from kerry B, posted by kerry B on July 6, 2000, at 17:09:34
Just to be sure, I'd feel more comfortable if some other folks familiar with lithium chimed in here about the water thing. I don't want to steer you wrong. I am not an expert.
Posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 10:32:14
In reply to Re: Kerry's Question about Water Intake--Anyone?, posted by noa on July 7, 2000, at 8:55:42
Kerry & noa,
good day to you guys.
noa, how are you today ? Up , I hope . banish those blues !
Kerry, I must say your recent posts sound so much better. Happy for you.
some things about Lithium.
The most important thing about li & water is to be consistant. Li works in a different way than all other meds. It is physically diluted in the body. It changes membrane potentials of nerves & of all cells.
for it to work the concentration must be in a certain range. The ratios of Li to others lytes like Mg, Na, K, Ca, etc are important in the membrane effect.
Our bodies have a control mechanism for the other 'normal' lytes to keep them in a functional range. Li is not a 'normal' lyte so the body does not know how to control its concentration. It is 'confused' by the body with Na & K to a minor extent.
dehydration will increase side effects & toxicity without any benefits.
A very high water intake can wash out Li + other electrolytes like sodium.
This is a simplified explan but other details don't help much in the practical arena.
Once a stable dose is found, it is best to have all lyte intake & water intake remain about the same. However our bodies do a good job of keeping things status quo, so in practice, it is not as important for most people as I have made it sound.
in practice a liter is about a quart. 3 quarts or liters a day is reasonable.
Posted by kerry B on July 7, 2000, at 18:43:40
In reply to Re: Kerry's Question about Water Intake » noa, posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 10:32:14
> Kerry & noa,
>
> good day to you guys.
>
> noa, how are you today ? Up , I hope . banish those blues !
>
> Kerry, I must say your recent posts sound so much better. Happy for you.
>
> some things about Lithium.
>
> The most important thing about li & water is to be consistant. Li works in a different way than all other meds. It is physically diluted in the body. It changes membrane potentials of nerves & of all cells.
>
> for it to work the concentration must be in a certain range. The ratios of Li to others lytes like Mg, Na, K, Ca, etc are important in the membrane effect.
>
> Our bodies have a control mechanism for the other 'normal' lytes to keep them in a functional range. Li is not a 'normal' lyte so the body does not know how to control its concentration. It is 'confused' by the body with Na & K to a minor extent.
>
> dehydration will increase side effects & toxicity without any benefits.
>
> A very high water intake can wash out Li + other electrolytes like sodium.
>
> This is a simplified explan but other details don't help much in the practical arena.
>
> Once a stable dose is found, it is best to have all lyte intake & water intake remain about the same. However our bodies do a good job of keeping things status quo, so in practice, it is not as important for most people as I have made it sound.
>
> in practice a liter is about a quart. 3 quarts or liters a day is reasonable.
Hi dan & noa,
I might employ the both of you as my health team worker and my doctor. The two of you seem to know so much more than anyone I've come across out here in Oz (not forgetting Cam and the rest!)
I am starting to feel a little better but I am very slowed down (still have the anger and irritability & still can't concentrate to well) but the anger is to a lesser degree and the suicidal thoughts have gone!! Compared to my first posts I guess I do sound better.
I seem to have a bit of a tremor. Is this from the zyprexa/lithium combo?
Well the water intake I am having seems to be ok which is good. Don't know what I would do without water!
Thanks again guys, you are so very helpful. I have learnt alot from you, hope I haven't been a burden on you though!!! I always feel guilty of that!!!!!!!
Better go and face the bedlam of breakfast time, I reckon I should open a cafe considering all the different things I have to get for everyone!!!!!Kerry!
Posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 22:42:49
In reply to Re: Kerry's Question about Water Intake danf noa, posted by kerry B on July 7, 2000, at 18:43:40
kerry, You a burden.. never !
now for tremors !
tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
very glad the suicidal thoughts are down. that is a good sign. anger & irritability soon to follow, banished to the outback !
Gettin' on the plane now to come to your grand cafe oppening for breakfast ! Just a joke !
I have always wanted roo bacon & emu eggs for breakfast !
Cheers, Kerry, onward & upward
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 1:00:07
In reply to kerry B from Kath » kerry B, posted by Kath on July 6, 2000, at 21:07:03
> Hi Kerry - Thx for your note. I'll answer through it.
>
> > Hi Kath,
> > Thanks again for your lovely message. I do plan to do something nice for myself during the week and it works out that I haven't really much housework to do as I have done it bit by bit this week, so the place won't fall apart just in a week. I am so much looking forward to it but I will probably spend all my time on here, knowing me.
>
> .............I'm glad you plan to do stuff for yourself. Let me know if you get your hair done. I find I can spend an inordinate amount of time here & I have to watch that it doesn't get out of control. The thing is, there are certain people who I seem to particularly relate to (just like in "in-person" life, I guess) & I care about them & what happens to them, so want to check in!
>
>
> > I just love to lay in the bath with candles burning, I find that so relaxing and it gives me time to think! I also want to have my hair tidied up, I have neglected it lately, being so pre-occupied with not feeling good, so if I can get over this drowsiness from the meds I'm on'I shall go to the hairdresser and be at the mercy of the scissors!
> > I'm sorry, I couldn't find your post from yesterday about your situation.
>
> ..........That post is below this one; it's dated yesterday & is titled something about "nice weekend; yucky homecoming" or something like that.
>
> I read one about your daughter and it sounded like she is doing well on her meds. Hope so. Does she suffer from depression? It's a horribe thing to go through as I have that part in my illness as well.
>
> ................She has had depression and panic attacks & social anxiety probably all her life I now think. She has been on Mannerix for about 4 weeks & feels it kicking in now. She does extremely well with it. She has taken it 2 times before & stopped once because she felt "better" & felt she didn't need it. The second time she stopped because she didn't know if the "her on Mannerix" was REALLY her or just a chemically-induced her! She now realizes that depression can cause her to feel a certain way and if she takes the meds for the proper amount of time, it is possible that she might feel better even when she stops taking it.
>
> > Do you know where your son has gone? It is a worry. Does he have depression as well? Sorry for asking, hope you don't mind.
>
> .............I don't mind anybody asking me anything! I would just say if I didn't feel comfortable answering. I'm pretty hard to offend! My son spoke to me on the phone today; actually, he walked into our back yard when I was talking on the phone. He walked past me & put his jacket down. He looked extremely guilty. Phoned me shortly after & said "what's up" or something like that! He admitted to stealing the $160. from my purse. I'd made a list for him of house-finding resources, shelters, help-lines, etc & put a $10 phone card with them. On the phone I suggested he call his worker from his day-treatment/school (which just recently ended). I checked the phone & he'd called from his friend's, 2 doors away. I saw him later, walking down the street. He asked on the phone if he could get the support money that his biological dad sends me & get himself a place for the summer & deduct the $160 from the first payment!!!!!!!
> He might be despressed, but marijuana is a depressant anyway, so he's been taking a depressant for well over a year & a half on a pretty-well daily basis! He's been involved with social workers, etc. & has had a psychiatrist test him for depression. They didn't suggest medication. He has certain issues (some with his bio-dad) that he knows are bothering him tremendously & I think he's self-medicating. No displays like your son's.
>
> > I had my 18 yr old staying with me for 7 months and then one day he said he was going to the city and said he would be home on the Monday as it was a Friday when he left.
> > Monday came and he never showed up. I was worried and tried to contact him on his mobile but there was never any answer. To cut a long story short, four weeks passed and I made contact with him. He hadn't remembered himself telling me when he would be home. Actually, observing him here, I do believe he has problems but I'm not sure what at this stage.
> > I have witnessed him shouting at himself and then answering himself and things like that and I asked him one day about it and he had no recollection of it. It worries me but it is out of my hands now as he never came back, he stayed in the city and is still there.
> > Being a mother is so hard. It is added stress, but believe me, they, the kids, survive but as mothers we worry for them.
> > I do hope you hear from your son!!!!! He must have somewhere that he is going. Are you able to talk to him about it in a matter of fact way? Maybe that will help you find out what he's doing?
>
> ..............He did phone & we talked calmly, but he has his mind set on getting his own place with the support money so he didn't want to talk of anything else. Since he has addiction problems & hasn't displayed a speck of ability with financial management it would be ludicrous to give him money like that.
>
> > Please try not to worry, you know there is always someone watching over him, just keep that in mind!!!!!
> .............That's the think I hang onto. It does help alot.
>
> > I best go now as everyone is awake and I must get ready to do the shopping.
> > Take care Kath!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Kerry
>
> .......I really appreciate your support.
> Thanks & do take care & keep in touch.
>
> Kath
Hi Kath,
Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....Kerry
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 1:17:45
In reply to tremors, posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 22:42:49
> kerry, You a burden.. never !
>
> now for tremors !
>
> tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
>
> very glad the suicidal thoughts are down. that is a good sign. anger & irritability soon to follow, banished to the outback !
>
> Gettin' on the plane now to come to your grand cafe oppening for breakfast ! Just a joke !
>
> I have always wanted roo bacon & emu eggs for breakfast !
>
> Cheers, Kerry, onward & upward
Hi Dan,
I'm going to have to make up a thousand posts of thank yous to you!!!!!!
You are quite welcome to my cafe anytime but I could't bring my self to cook roo and emu though I believe they taste wonderful!!!!! You'll just have to have the plain old pig and hen, will that do oh and of course freshly squeezed orange juice and a muffin will that do too???
Hopefully the anger etc will go away soon as I can't stand it. It just pops up from nowhere, same with the irritability but this coming week, my kids are going on hols to granny"s, so I will have the week to myself to do some analyzing, really looking forward to it as it is hard trying to get well and looking after kids etc.
How do you deal with your anxiety and such? You might just have the answer, like stay in bed all day????? just resting and relaxing??????????
What time is your plane arriving? I shall send my private helicopter to pick you up!!!!hahahahahaha
Breakfast is served around 8am.
Well, gotta go and pack the kids things so I am organized in the morning (mornings aaaggghhh)I will miss them but I'm sure the break away from all the happenings that have gone on around here will do them good as well, poor things!!!
O.K take care and a thousand thanks Dr. Dan......Kerry
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2000, at 8:28:05
In reply to tremors, posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 22:42:49
Dear DanF,
On behalf of the folks here, I just want to thank you for your relevant and knowledgable input. I don't know if you had been a participant on Psycho-Babble before I arrived here (10/99), but I value your presence now.
> kerry, You a burden.. never !
>
> now for tremors !How very exciting!
> tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
In Re: Tremor stuffIn the past, some doctors would rely upon hand tremors as a clinical indicator of therapeutic dosages of lithium. They would adjust the dosage to the minimum that would produce them, the tremors being barely noticeable.
Question: In what ways are Zyprexa-induced tremors different from lithium-induced tremors? How are they produced? Along with the fine hand tremors, I noticed a cog-wheel effect when I lifted weights while taking lithium.
In Re: Heuristic stuffMuch of what lithium does to exert its therapeutic effects are not understood. It does so many things. You've got me curious to review some of the mechanisms by which it affects membrane potentials and electrolyte pumps. Perhaps I should save my energy and let you review them for me. :-) (half-serious). One of the things that has been studied is the effects lithium has on postsynaptic second-messenger systems, particularly protein kinase-C (PKC). I believe there is some speculation that this ultimately results in changes in gene expression. It also inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3 beta (GSK-3 beta), which leads to the production of both neurotrophic and neuroprotective substances (MAP1B-P and bcl-2 respectively). Lithium also directly inhibits membrane receptor G-protein activity, which might help to explain its immediate antimanic effects. I think I remember an NIH doctor tell me that lithium also changes the expression of G-proteins through c-FOS mediated gene transcription, but my memory is vague on this.
- Scott
-----------------------------------------------
Found this on Medline:
13: Aust N Z J Psychiatry 1999 Dec;33 Suppl:S65-83Signalling pathways in the brain: cellular transduction of mood stabilisation in
the treatment of manic-depressive illness.Manji HK, McNamara R, Chen G, Lenox RH
Department of Psychiatry, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit,
Michigan 48201, USA. hmanji@med.wayne.eduThe long-term treatment of manic-depressive illness (MDI) likely involves the
strategic regulation of signalling pathways and gene expression in critical
neuronal circuits. Accumulated evidence has identified signalling pathways, in
particular the family of protein kinase C (PKC) isozymes, as targets for the
long-term action of lithium. Chronic lithium administration produces a reduction
in the expression of PKC alpha and epsilon, as well as a major PKC substrate,
MARCKS, which has been implicated in long-term neuroplastic events in the
developing and adult brain. More recently, studies have demonstrated robust
effects of lithium on another kinase system, GSK-3beta, and on
neuroprotective/neurotrophic proteins in the brain. Given the key roles of these
signalling cascades in the amplification and integration of signals in the
central nervous system, these findings have clear implications not only for
research into the neurobiology of MDI, but also for the future development of
novel and innovative treatment strategies.Publication Types:
Review
Review, tutorialPMID: 10622182, UI: 20085894
Posted by danf on July 8, 2000, at 11:03:25
In reply to Re: tremors, lithium, mechanisms » danf, posted by SLS on July 8, 2000, at 8:28:05
scott,
Thank you for your kind words.
You posed some provocative questions for sure.
I do not know if Li & zyprexa tremors are different or mediated in a different way.
some thoughts. Li produces fine tremors usually. zyprexa, I don't know ? since Kerry had been on the same dose of Li for sometime & had not noticed tremor before, probably related to the zyp. The tremor induction may be additive with the 2 ?
anxiety induced tremor is adrenergic mediated & of the intention type. In my personal observation, focusing on a task where tremor was a hinderance made the tremor worse. at the same time BP & HR increased. BP & HR are good objective markers for adrenergic effects. Beta blockers counteract this effect very well.
No some thoughts about Li.
What we do know is that changes in lytes & lytes ratios affects different nerves in different ways. exactly which ones & where they are is unknown for Li.
The brain works as a giant complex electrical circuit. There are feed back loops. loops that stabilize, loops that sensitize. some drugs energize some nerves, some depress some.
Li at therapeutic levels affects some of the controls & appears to have a stabilizing overall effect. whether this releases some circuits that are depressed or depresses some circuits that are overactive is unknown.
It obviously affects multiple circuits as several different neurotransmitters have changes in concentration.
Whether the enzyme effects are direct ( & personally I doubt they are ) or indirect is unknown. Enzymes tend to be regulated by chemicals & not ions. ions usually have a work /no work function. Most of the ion effects are in general from trace elements, like cobalt, Mg, Iron, Chrome, Mn, Copper, etc.
So I expect that the enzyme /Li effects are due to chemicals released or not released by brain nerve endings. These chemicals may be neurotransmitters or proteins or other chemicals in the brain tissue.
It is quite a complex subject & very difficult to study. The amounts of chemicals can be quite small & low concentrations. One has to have a good guess ( theory ) as to what to look for before starting experiments or the right tests won't be done. Even the right tests may not be sensitive enough.
Isloated tissue studies may not give accurate results as interactions of different nerve types ( receptor types ) are involved in the overall result. There are probably other receptor types that are as yet unknown, along with other transmitters that may play a role.
A long winded, I don't know either.
Or better yet. I did know & forgot to write it down in my notebook. Then I got depressed & my memory went bad & I forgot it all ! LOL
Best wishes Scott, hope you find the right combo.
remember, eat a fish & help clean up the enviornment ! You know what those fish do in the water !
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 17:09:01
In reply to Re: tremors, lithium, mechanisms » danf, posted by SLS on July 8, 2000, at 8:28:05
> Dear DanF,
>
> On behalf of the folks here, I just want to thank you for your relevant and knowledgable input. I don't know if you had been a participant on Psycho-Babble before I arrived here (10/99), but I value your presence now.
>
>
> > kerry, You a burden.. never !
> >
> > now for tremors !
>
> How very exciting!
>
> > tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
>
>
> In Re: Tremor stuff
>
> In the past, some doctors would rely upon hand tremors as a clinical indicator of therapeutic dosages of lithium. They would adjust the dosage to the minimum that would produce them, the tremors being barely noticeable.
>
> Question: In what ways are Zyprexa-induced tremors different from lithium-induced tremors? How are they produced? Along with the fine hand tremors, I noticed a cog-wheel effect when I lifted weights while taking lithium.
>
>
> In Re: Heuristic stuff
>
> Much of what lithium does to exert its therapeutic effects are not understood. It does so many things. You've got me curious to review some of the mechanisms by which it affects membrane potentials and electrolyte pumps. Perhaps I should save my energy and let you review them for me. :-) (half-serious). One of the things that has been studied is the effects lithium has on postsynaptic second-messenger systems, particularly protein kinase-C (PKC). I believe there is some speculation that this ultimately results in changes in gene expression. It also inhibits glycogen synthase kinase 3 beta (GSK-3 beta), which leads to the production of both neurotrophic and neuroprotective substances (MAP1B-P and bcl-2 respectively). Lithium also directly inhibits membrane receptor G-protein activity, which might help to explain its immediate antimanic effects. I think I remember an NIH doctor tell me that lithium also changes the expression of G-proteins through c-FOS mediated gene transcription, but my memory is vague on this.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> Found this on Medline:
>
>
> 13: Aust N Z J Psychiatry 1999 Dec;33 Suppl:S65-83
>
> Signalling pathways in the brain: cellular transduction of mood stabilisation in
> the treatment of manic-depressive illness.
>
> Manji HK, McNamara R, Chen G, Lenox RH
>
> Department of Psychiatry, Wayne State University School of Medicine, Detroit,
> Michigan 48201, USA. hmanji@med.wayne.edu
>
> The long-term treatment of manic-depressive illness (MDI) likely involves the
> strategic regulation of signalling pathways and gene expression in critical
> neuronal circuits. Accumulated evidence has identified signalling pathways, in
> particular the family of protein kinase C (PKC) isozymes, as targets for the
> long-term action of lithium. Chronic lithium administration produces a reduction
> in the expression of PKC alpha and epsilon, as well as a major PKC substrate,
> MARCKS, which has been implicated in long-term neuroplastic events in the
> developing and adult brain. More recently, studies have demonstrated robust
> effects of lithium on another kinase system, GSK-3beta, and on
> neuroprotective/neurotrophic proteins in the brain. Given the key roles of these
> signalling cascades in the amplification and integration of signals in the
> central nervous system, these findings have clear implications not only for
> research into the neurobiology of MDI, but also for the future development of
> novel and innovative treatment strategies.
>
> Publication Types:
> Review
> Review, tutorial
>
> PMID: 10622182, UI: 20085894
Hi all!!!
Gosh some of those words you used I can't even find in the dictionary!!! I shall stick to the simple stuff as that is all I can handle at the moment!!
Remembering back to when I started on lithium, I did have the shakes a bit (I'm on 1,000mg per day) but I just put it down to nerves and anxiety, so all along it was the lithium?
Nobody, meaning doctors or team workers, ever explains what side affects I will experience so I have to diagnose myself half the time or read the leaflet in the box but the lithium came with nothing, just a white bottle that stares me in the face morning and night!!!
This zyprexa seems to be doing it's job. Still having terrible trouble with my memory (maybe I have developed Alzheimers and I don't know it) and still having trouble with EPS, though not so sure if it is that. Every night at about 8pm, I start getting irritable inside myself so I start doing the ironing or anything else I can find to do, it's really annoying. It's like I have to release the feeling or otherwise I'll explode. Don't know if this is a side effect from lithium/zyprexa or just my frame of mind, but I am starting to feel better and getting on top of things.
I think it was you Scott, that told me about SANE Australia. I looked into it. It is a site where you can put to them a question and they E-mail you back and they more of less tell you to go and see you doctor. But thanks anyway, I gave it a try.
Hope everyone is well, best go now and do the "Cafe ala Kerry" breakfast round.......aaaagggghhhh!!!!!!!!
Posted by Kath on July 8, 2000, at 18:35:55
In reply to Re: to Kath from kerry B, posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 1:00:07
> > Hi Kath,
> Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
>
> KerryHi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
Hugs. Kath :-)
Posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 20:56:36
In reply to To Kerry B, posted by Kath on July 8, 2000, at 18:35:55
> > > Hi Kath,
> > Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> > I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> > I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> > Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> > It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> > Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> > Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> > The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> > All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> > Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> > Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> > Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
> >
> > Kerry
>
> Hi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
>
> I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
>
> Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
>
> Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
>
> Hugs. Kath :-)
Hi Kath!!
Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better today.
You ARE SO LUCKY to have curly hair! I pay a fortune to get my hair permed so it's curly, my hair is flat straight and I have to style it every day with the blow dryer and the faithful old round brush I have! It's a real pain!!!
Just wondering why your son camps out on the patio. Is it because of the hours he keeps or he just prefers it that way?
When my 18 yr old was living with us a while ago, I could never sleep properly, sort of subconsciously waiting to hear him come home and when he did, be it whatever hour in the morning, I would get up and have a chat with him, not a confronting chat but a "as a matter of fact chat" and he'd end up telling me bit by bit of what he did and where he was then all I had to do was put all the pieces together and I'd have the full story without him even realizing.
We always have to be one step ahead and it's a tiring job. He no longer lives here any more, he moved back to the city with his brother.
Not blaming him or anything, but I think having him live with us for 7 months, trying to get him an identity as he had nothing, and trying to educate him about the real world took it's toll on my health. I lasted out while he was here, I always put on a happy face even though I was very depressed, but now, I finally broke down, the build up became too much and so I became ill again.
Anyway, we as mothers, have to take care of ourselves and stop being last all the time because if we become ill, who is there to run the household? I wouldn't hand it over to my hubby, he just has no idea!!!!! I think bringing up kids is like sailing a ship, we are the captains, we say the orders and show direction as long as the crew will obey. We begin in calm waters, a storm comes along but we manage to sail through it as best we can and then after the storm passes us by, we hit sunshine. It's a never ending journey but it is an adventure!!!!! That's the way I look at it! Hope I make sense!
Well, my kids left for grandma"s a little while ago so I am alone and I really don't know what to do with myself! Strange how you look forward to the break and when you get it you feel lost!!!
We are having friends over this-afternoon so I guess I could get ready for that.
O.K. I'll go now, keep smiling and big hugs to you!!!Kerry :)
Posted by Kath on July 10, 2000, at 15:33:08
In reply to Re: To Kath from Kerry B, posted by kerry B on July 8, 2000, at 20:56:36
> > > > Hi Kath,
> > > Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> > > I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> > > I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> > > Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> > > It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> > > Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> > > Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> > > The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> > > All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> > > Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> > > Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> > > Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
> > >
> > > Kerry
> >
> > Hi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
> >
> > I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
> >
> > Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
> >
> > Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
> >
> > Hugs. Kath :-)
>
>HI KERRY B. - I'm answering throughout your post & will mark my entries with .............
> Hi Kath!!
> Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better today.
> You ARE SO LUCKY to have curly hair! I pay a fortune to get my hair permed so it's curly, my hair is flat straight and I have to style it every day with the blow dryer and the faithful old round brush I have! It's a real pain!!!..................I know, people always say I'm so lucky, but it does what it wants to & that's not often what I'd like. I did go today & got it done. Isn't that funny; you curl yours with a round brush & blow dryer & I get mine done that way at the hairdresser's & then smooth it out with the round brush & dryer! Oh well, seems like most people aren't satisfied with their hair. I suppose with my permanent permanent, at least when I go swimming I just let it dry after & it looks like it always does.
> Just wondering why your son camps out on the patio. Is it because of the hours he keeps or he just prefers it that way?
..............I don't know where I posted about it. Our son smokes pot daily, is unpredictable modd-wise (depends where on the drug-use cycle he is). He's been attending a day-treatment/school program. We've been having family councelling there, but all he's interested in is US making changes. He doesn't seem interested in HIM making any changes ALSO. A couple of weekends ago my son was gone for 4 days without letting us know his whereabouts. It turned out that he'd gone to a town about an hour & a bit from here with a friend from school & just didn't let us know. We had the police looking for him & tried to keep from getting too frantic. Then last weekend, we were planning to go away for the weekend; told our son he was invited to his sister's & we'd take him there - that if he didn't go, we needed him to make other arrangements, because we didn't want him or his friends in the house. When we got home, he's come in through the basement window & the pot smoke in his room was such that if you wanted to get stoned, just go in there & breathe. The next day (last Mon) we told him that because of how things have been going for the past months, we've decided that if there is a major breaking of our house rules, Strike 1 will be 2 full days off our property, Strike 2 will be 4 full days, Strike 3 will be find somewhere else to live. We said that if a serious enough event happened, it would be directly to Strike 3. We live in Canada. He is 16 & parents are legally responsible for providing shelter until out children are 16. Well, the very day after we told him about the Strikes, he was confrontational with me; demanding; disrespectul & stole $160. from my purse! So we went directly to Strike 3. I put some of his stuff in a knapsack & put his sleeping bag out in a plastic bag. Since then, he had been coming onto the patio after we were in bed, sleeping on the lounge in his sleeping bag & leaving before we got up. Last nite & the nite before, he slept elsewhere. He has a list of resources for teens, shelters, his social worker at the school, etc. & a phone card. He's been back to get his bag etc. & wasn't respectful. He's tried to get me to give him the support $ that I receive from his bio-Dad; he's tried to get me to give him money; etc. So that's where we're at. I've told him that even though he probably hates us right now & it probably feels like we hate him, we do love him. I've told him that if he has a plan in place & no way to get to a resource center or job-hunting, he can call me & we'll see what we can work out. He told me that he has somewhere he can live if he gets a job. I am completely worn down by his situation over the past year & a half (at least).
> When my 18 yr old was living with us a while ago, I could never sleep properly, sort of subconsciously waiting to hear him come home and when he did, be it whatever hour in the morning, I would get up and have a chat with him, not a confronting chat but a "as a matter of fact chat" and he'd end up telling me bit by bit of what he did and where he was then all I had to do was put all the pieces together and I'd have the full
story without him even realizing........My son & I communicate pretty well & he tells me alot of things, but the drugs get in the way BIG_TIME. I never know who I'm going to be talking to - my nice kid, who I like, or some confrontation, disrepectful jerk. (He's called me a F-ing Bi--- etc.)
> We always have to be one step ahead and it's a tiring job. He no longer lives here any more, he moved back to the city with his brother.
> Not blaming him or anything, but I think having him live with us for 7 months, trying to get him an identity as he had nothing, and trying to educate him about the real world took it's toll on my health. I lasted out while he was here, I always put on a happy face even though I was very depressed, but now, I finally broke down, the build up became too much and so I became ill again...............I know! I think he's what caused my anxiety to get worse & worse. Now that he's out of the house, I feel so calm. Yes, I'm upset about it sometimes, but I don't feel as if I don't know what to expect, & I don't keep having his "stuff" to deal with.
> Anyway, we as mothers, have to take care of ourselves and stop being last all the time because if we become ill, who is there to run the household? I wouldn't hand it over to my hubby, he just has no idea!!!!! I think bringing up kids is like sailing a ship, we are the captains, we say the orders and show direction as long as the crew will obey. We begin in calm waters, a storm comes along but we manage to sail through it as best we can and then after the storm passes us by, we hit sunshine. It's a never ending journey but it is an adventure!!!!! That's the way I look at it! Hope I make sense!
.........Makes ALOT of sense. I don't feel like I want the "teenage adventure" right now, or for the near future - I should say the "drug-using-tennage adventure". They're 2 different things, for sure.
> Well, my kids left for grandma"s a little while ago so I am alone and I really don't know what to do with myself! Strange how you look forward to the break and when you get it you feel lost!!!
> We are having friends over this-afternoon so I guess I could get ready for that.
> O.K. I'll go now, keep smiling and big hugs to you!!!
>
> Kerry :)I hope it doesn't take you too long to get into the swing of what to do with all that TIME for yourself!!. Hope you & your friends have fun.
Take care. Hugs, Kath
Posted by noa on July 10, 2000, at 15:58:10
In reply to Reply for you Kerry B » kerry B, posted by Kath on July 10, 2000, at 15:33:08
Hi, Kerry. How are you doing today?
Posted by kerry B on July 10, 2000, at 22:00:38
In reply to Re: Kerry B--hello, posted by noa on July 10, 2000, at 15:58:10
> Hi, Kerry. How are you doing today?
Hi there noa,
I am having a terrible time finding my postings!
Luckily I found yours.
I feel as if I am actually getting somewhere on this zyprexa. Still a little slow but if that's what it takes for the time being, I can handle that!!!!
I have my first session this Friday for the post traumatic shock so I am curious how that will be. I have begun writing them all down and it's horrible to remember back!!!!!!
I am on holidays for this week as my kids left yesterday for Granny's,it is so nice and peaceful and I can do whatever I want without being interupted.
I can't thank you enough for all the support you gave me when I first joined, there would never be enough words to describe it!!!!!
I have actually got stuck into moving furniture around in the last two days and it didn't feel like a manic attack, it felt right. It's strange for me to feel as though a certain emotion is right because for the last 5 years I've either been one way or the other but now I feel good. Still got the anger there but if I try to work on that and find the triggers, I will be one step ahead of myself.
How are you going? Well I hope!!!!!!
Guess I ahd better go now as I have a few more things to straighten out. Hope to hear from you soon and take it easy!!!!!!Kerry
Posted by kerry B on July 10, 2000, at 23:24:08
In reply to Reply for you Kerry B » kerry B, posted by Kath on July 10, 2000, at 15:33:08
> > > > > Hi Kath,
> > > > Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> > > > I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> > > > I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> > > > Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> > > > It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> > > > Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> > > > Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> > > > The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> > > > All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> > > > Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> > > > Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> > > > Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
> > > >
> > > > Kerry
> > >
> > > Hi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
> > >
> > > I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
> > >
> > > Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
> > >
> > > Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
> > >
> > > Hugs. Kath :-)
> >
> >
>
> HI KERRY B. - I'm answering throughout your post & will mark my entries with .............
>
>
> > Hi Kath!!
> > Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better today.
> > You ARE SO LUCKY to have curly hair! I pay a fortune to get my hair permed so it's curly, my hair is flat straight and I have to style it every day with the blow dryer and the faithful old round brush I have! It's a real pain!!!
>
> ..................I know, people always say I'm so lucky, but it does what it wants to & that's not often what I'd like. I did go today & got it done. Isn't that funny; you curl yours with a round brush & blow dryer & I get mine done that way at the hairdresser's & then smooth it out with the round brush & dryer! Oh well, seems like most people aren't satisfied with their hair. I suppose with my permanent permanent, at least when I go swimming I just let it dry after & it looks like it always does.
>
> > Just wondering why your son camps out on the patio. Is it because of the hours he keeps or he just prefers it that way?
>
> ..............I don't know where I posted about it. Our son smokes pot daily, is unpredictable modd-wise (depends where on the drug-use cycle he is). He's been attending a day-treatment/school program. We've been having family councelling there, but all he's interested in is US making changes. He doesn't seem interested in HIM making any changes ALSO. A couple of weekends ago my son was gone for 4 days without letting us know his whereabouts. It turned out that he'd gone to a town about an hour & a bit from here with a friend from school & just didn't let us know. We had the police looking for him & tried to keep from getting too frantic. Then last weekend, we were planning to go away for the weekend; told our son he was invited to his sister's & we'd take him there - that if he didn't go, we needed him to make other arrangements, because we didn't want him or his friends in the house. When we got home, he's come in through the basement window & the pot smoke in his room was such that if you wanted to get stoned, just go in there & breathe. The next day (last Mon) we told him that because of how things have been going for the past months, we've decided that if there is a major breaking of our house rules, Strike 1 will be 2 full days off our property, Strike 2 will be 4 full days, Strike 3 will be find somewhere else to live. We said that if a serious enough event happened, it would be directly to Strike 3. We live in Canada. He is 16 & parents are legally responsible for providing shelter until out children are 16. Well, the very day after we told him about the Strikes, he was confrontational with me; demanding; disrespectul & stole $160. from my purse! So we went directly to Strike 3. I put some of his stuff in a knapsack & put his sleeping bag out in a plastic bag. Since then, he had been coming onto the patio after we were in bed, sleeping on the lounge in his sleeping bag & leaving before we got up. Last nite & the nite before, he slept elsewhere. He has a list of resources for teens, shelters, his social worker at the school, etc. & a phone card. He's been back to get his bag etc. & wasn't respectful. He's tried to get me to give him the support $ that I receive from his bio-Dad; he's tried to get me to give him money; etc. So that's where we're at. I've told him that even though he probably hates us right now & it probably feels like we hate him, we do love him. I've told him that if he has a plan in place & no way to get to a resource center or job-hunting, he can call me & we'll see what we can work out. He told me that he has somewhere he can live if he gets a job. I am completely worn down by his situation over the past year & a half (at least).
>
>
> > When my 18 yr old was living with us a while ago, I could never sleep properly, sort of subconsciously waiting to hear him come home and when he did, be it whatever hour in the morning, I would get up and have a chat with him, not a confronting chat but a "as a matter of fact chat" and he'd end up telling me bit by bit of what he did and where he was then all I had to do was put all the pieces together and I'd have the full
> story without him even realizing.
>
> .......My son & I communicate pretty well & he tells me alot of things, but the drugs get in the way BIG_TIME. I never know who I'm going to be talking to - my nice kid, who I like, or some confrontation, disrepectful jerk. (He's called me a F-ing Bi--- etc.)
>
> > We always have to be one step ahead and it's a tiring job. He no longer lives here any more, he moved back to the city with his brother.
> > Not blaming him or anything, but I think having him live with us for 7 months, trying to get him an identity as he had nothing, and trying to educate him about the real world took it's toll on my health. I lasted out while he was here, I always put on a happy face even though I was very depressed, but now, I finally broke down, the build up became too much and so I became ill again.
>
> ..............I know! I think he's what caused my anxiety to get worse & worse. Now that he's out of the house, I feel so calm. Yes, I'm upset about it sometimes, but I don't feel as if I don't know what to expect, & I don't keep having his "stuff" to deal with.
>
> > Anyway, we as mothers, have to take care of ourselves and stop being last all the time because if we become ill, who is there to run the household? I wouldn't hand it over to my hubby, he just has no idea!!!!! I think bringing up kids is like sailing a ship, we are the captains, we say the orders and show direction as long as the crew will obey. We begin in calm waters, a storm comes along but we manage to sail through it as best we can and then after the storm passes us by, we hit sunshine. It's a never ending journey but it is an adventure!!!!! That's the way I look at it! Hope I make sense!
>
> .........Makes ALOT of sense. I don't feel like I want the "teenage adventure" right now, or for the near future - I should say the "drug-using-tennage adventure". They're 2 different things, for sure.
>
> > Well, my kids left for grandma"s a little while ago so I am alone and I really don't know what to do with myself! Strange how you look forward to the break and when you get it you feel lost!!!
> > We are having friends over this-afternoon so I guess I could get ready for that.
> > O.K. I'll go now, keep smiling and big hugs to you!!!
> >
> > Kerry :)
>
> I hope it doesn't take you too long to get into the swing of what to do with all that TIME for yourself!!. Hope you & your friends have fun.
>
> Take care. Hugs, Kath
Hi Kath,
Wow, my second day without the kids and I'm finally used to it now!! When they left yesterday, I felt lost and lonely so I moved two rooms around and that made me feel better!
How are you today????
I don't know whether it's a boy thing, but they just can't seem to understand where we are coming from. We can be kind and patient or we can be angry but they always seem to see the problem as being us.
I like this strike thing you have going. He seems to understand that, but he must have somewhere else to go to shower etc or is he allowed in for that. Where does he eat?
It is hard being a mother because they always reflect it back onto us but don't worry yourself about it, it will all change. My eldest 21, used to balme me for his dad & I splitting up, that went on for a long time but now, he is ok and we have a great relationship. Things can only get better.
That's what I wanted to ask you: Have you ever read a book by Barbara Johnson called "Stick a Geranium in your hat and be Happy"? She is an american woman and runs a ministry called Spatula Ministries. It is such a good book and I think it would benefit you right now. See if you can find it, it is everywhere over here, mainly in Christian Book stores, I highly recommend it for you. She went through troubles with her sons so you might pick up some tips (hers were a little different but give it a go), it has some good things on how to get through ordeals and stay on top.
I think you did the right thing when he stole the money out of your purse. I know I would do the same thing. It means they can't be trusted and I think it takes a fair while until you can have that trust again. How long has he been on pot? Was it one year now? In my experience, that's early days, sorry, don't want to bring you down. I feel that it doesn't agree with him. What was he like before he started on it? Was he respectful and reliable and trustworthy? It's hard to watch a family member slide backwards. If only he would seek help, but I guess he feels he's ok.
Has his appearance changed? What you could do, when he's in an approachable mood, is show him a photo of what he looked like before and what he looks like now. It could be a shock tactic?
If he disappears for days on end, don't worry. He's done it before and always come back, so don't worry, let's hope one day he'll come home with his "tail between his legs", so to speak), and apologize for what he's done.
In this situation, time is the only solution, time and patience and understanding. I'm not adding sympathy because they have their choice as to what to do with thier lives and if they choose the hard road, they have to suffer the knocks that come with it, So dear Kath, please do not let this get you down.
You deserve your happiness in life, you have done all you can from birth until now so it is up to him to pull himself together and take a good look at what he is doing to the ones that love him!!!!!
Agree!!!!Well, I'll go now and do some puzzles, they keep my mind open!!!!
Please take it easy and know that you are in my prayers!!!!!!Kerry :)
Posted by kerry B on July 10, 2000, at 23:34:45
In reply to tremors, posted by danf on July 7, 2000, at 22:42:49
> kerry, You a burden.. never !
>
> now for tremors !
>
> tremor is usually mediated by the adrenergic system. both zyprexa & lithium can cause this. with zyprexa being the likely culprit ( incidence increases with dose increases). irritability is a manefestation of anxiety & anxiety also drives tremor as I can well attest to. so anxiety may be part of the tremor.
>
> very glad the suicidal thoughts are down. that is a good sign. anger & irritability soon to follow, banished to the outback !
>
> Gettin' on the plane now to come to your grand cafe oppening for breakfast ! Just a joke !
>
> I have always wanted roo bacon & emu eggs for breakfast !
>
> Cheers, Kerry, onward & upward
Hi dan'
I am having terrible trouble finding posts. I am sure I got this one from you the other day and I replied but I can't find it amywhere!
Oh well, guess I'll learn from experience.
Actually, I ahve never cooked roo or emu eggs, don't know if I'd have the heart to do it!!!!
I did try Kangarootail soup once (I didn't know it
at the time) but it was BEAUTIFUL!!!!!
So if tou come for breakfast it will be muffins with pork bacon and hen eggs.
I did sent off another post about tremor. Being on lithium for just over a year now, I had a mild tremor but these days, since being on zyprexa, the shake is there. I cannot transport a cup of tea without the security of holding it with two hands. It's a pain!!!!
Oh well, just thought I'd share that with you.....
see ya later.....Kerry
Posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 5:16:03
In reply to Re: tremors to danf, posted by kerry B on July 10, 2000, at 23:34:45
Kerry,
I think your reply is on the most recent archive page. not to worry.Are things settling down for you ? how is your memory ?
I also have a tremor. It has been helped by beta blocker meds ( often used to treat high blood pressure )
Not sure that now is the time to start another med. Sometimes the tremor gets better in a couple of weeks after starting a new anti P med.
Hang in there. kerry
Well I have had ostrich & elephant & croc. All good. Muffins & bacon & eggs sounds good.
Posted by kerry B on July 11, 2000, at 16:02:37
In reply to Re: tremors to danf » kerry B, posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 5:16:03
> Kerry,
> I think your reply is on the most recent archive page. not to worry.
>
> Are things settling down for you ? how is your memory ?
>
> I also have a tremor. It has been helped by beta blocker meds ( often used to treat high blood pressure )
>
> Not sure that now is the time to start another med. Sometimes the tremor gets better in a couple of weeks after starting a new anti P med.
>
> Hang in there. kerry
>
> Well I have had ostrich & elephant & croc. All good. Muffins & bacon & eggs sounds good.
Hi dan,
O.K. let me know when your plane arrives and I'll have brekky waiting!hahaha
Have you really eaten those things? Were you conscious of what they were? You're a brave man!!!
I am hanging in there with the tremor but my other problem now is that come about 8pm at night, I'm on edge, can't sit down. Have to find things to do and I found myself painting last night. It's horrible. It's not in my legs etc like before, it's my whole body that's irritable, not to mention my mind!! Working overtime!
Is this a form of EPS? I go to bed at 11pm but unusually, I am back up at 6am whereas I normally love to sleep in. Can you tell me what is wrong? Is it all due to the meds, maybe the combo of lithium and zyprexa? Like to hear your thoughts and remember, use smaller words cause my dictionary hasn't got the ones you say in it!hahaha!!
Have a nice day............Kerry
Posted by SLS on July 11, 2000, at 17:16:12
In reply to Re: tremors to danf from me, posted by kerry B on July 11, 2000, at 16:02:37
> I am hanging in there with the tremor but my other problem now is that come about 8pm at night, I'm on edge, can't sit down. Have to find things to do and I found myself painting last night. It's horrible. It's not in my legs etc like before, it's my whole body that's irritable, not to mention my mind!! Working overtime!
> Is this a form of EPS?
Do you feel like you are "crawling out of your skin"? "Inner restlessness"? Fidgety legs or feet? Rocking movements?
There is a possibility that you are experiencing a form of EPS known as akathisia.
I don't want to put ideas in your head, you have so many already.
Just ask your doctors about it. You may want to write down as much as you can about what's happening to you.
- Scott
Posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 17:22:58
In reply to Re: tremors to danf from me, posted by kerry B on July 11, 2000, at 16:02:37
Kerry,
You are still in the start up period with the zyprexa & startup side effects can last 3 wks or so. My guess is that this is agitation, which is common with zyprexa. It is not really a EPS symptom & does not respond to EPS meds. zyp can also cause anxiety & tremors.
It may be your med dose needs to be dropped back a bit & then increased slowly ? Choices like this for antiP meds are harder than with the SSRIs for depression.
lorazepam (Ativan) is used at times for the agitation.
I think you should discuss this with your coordinator.
______________________________________________________
Yes, I knew what I was eating. Have eaten all sorts of game & fish. & enjoyed it all.
Hope you keep on feeling better.
Posted by SLS on July 11, 2000, at 21:02:13
In reply to Re: tremors to danf from me » kerry B, posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 17:22:58
> My guess is that this is agitation, which is common with zyprexa. zyp can also cause anxiety & tremors.
I did not know this. Is this common with all neuroleptics? Which ones in particular?
- Scott
Posted by danf on July 11, 2000, at 22:20:49
In reply to Re: tremors to danf from me » danf, posted by SLS on July 11, 2000, at 21:02:13
scott,
it is pretty common with the older ones during startup. & even with ADs.
most all can do it. zyprexa has a reported incidence of 23%, which given my faith in the drug co, translates to probably 90%.
The problem with neuroleptics is that the disease is major in brain dysfunction.
Anxiety, agitation, & shakes are common before starting the meds. What ever is present before starting the meds seems to get boosted when the meds are started.
Anxiety & paranoid delusions are almost like cousins where delusions are like the extreme end of the spectrum.
Many people with anxiety disorders feel like people look at them funny, etc. People with paranoia KNOW that other people are doing /thinking weird stuff.
My guess is that agitation & anxiety are linked as well. the benzos help some with agitation, but that may be a function of sedation.
pretty hard to sort out the nuiances of differences as folks with high anxiety & /or agitation have difficulty with clear thought & careful analytical description of things.
Posted by Kath on July 12, 2000, at 15:02:13
In reply to Re: Reply for you Kath from kB, posted by kerry B on July 10, 2000, at 23:24:08
> > > > > > Hi Kath,
> > > > > Thanks for your message. I'll start by saying that I did have my hair fixed up. I had about 4 inches taken off as it was all dead ends and looked quite a mess but now it's much better and feels better too. I don't feel so bad about it now and it is easier to look after, just shoulder length now!
> > > > > I am the same as you with spending time on here, I just can't seem to get away and when I look at the time, I think, "where's it gone"? But I love it on here, the people are so very nice and helpful. I think, if it had not have been for this, I would have been very alone but finding this site (I don't know how I did) really helped me understand a lot of what I was going through and the support was tremendous!!!!!!
> > > > > I am glad your daughter has realized the benfit of the meds. It is very confusing when you start to feel different, actually funtioning and as she has done, going of the meds, I have done that too in the past with not very good results. I thought I was on top of the world and so happy, but it didn't take long for my world to come crashing down!! I think it takes a lot of understanding to know what it feels like to feel normal if you know what I mean, I find it very hard even today to know how I'm supposed to feel and what a normal feeling is. You sound like a great mum, so supportive of her, I think she is a lucky girl to have you!!!
> > > > > Sorry about your son. My eldest son is also into the marijuana and the last time I saw him, he confessed to me that he was. As a matter of fact, he snuck out the back and had it and when he came back inside I looked at him and gently confronted him about it. I just told him to be careful, that there are dangers and terrible side affects that can come from it and that I am always here if he needs to talk or just have support. He was O.K about it, inside my heart I was crying but I couldn't let him know that.
> > > > > It's good that your son admitted to taking the $160.00 from you, and I agree with you, it would be a bad idea to give him the money his bio-dad sends you because we know where that would go.
> > > > > Sometimes, and in situations like this, we have to be cruel to be kind!
> > > > > Sometimes they can hold a grudge against us thinking we are the meanest mums in the world but I think let it be that way because in the end, they find the right direction along the way. They might go through some really tough times but that is the only way for them to learn. Parents are not the doorway to easy street as some kids think.
> > > > > The only real way to sort out the things that are bothering him is to talk about them, that's easy to say because they don't take advice lightly, but you never know, he might just turn around when things get too much for him one day and ask for help.
> > > > > All we can do as parents, is be there for them, as you are doing, do the cruel to be kind bit and pray!!!!
> > > > > Hope this has been of some help. I am only going by my own experience in these matters and they seem to have worked for me, not all the time of course, but alot of it. I shall hold you and your kids in my prayers if you like and hope things improve for you and for them.
> > > > > Hang in there! You sound like a wonderful mum and person so don't let it get you down, just take one day at a time and when you wake up each morning, say a little prayer for the events that will take place that day and hand them over.
> > > > > Better go now, I have to do the lovely job of ironing the kids clothes so as I can pack them for their week with Grandma!!!!!Bye for now.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Kerry
> > > >
> > > > Hi Kerry - THX alot for your kind words. If I'm objective I acknowledge that I'm a good mum, but then I thing 'ya, but if should have done this & this etc. etc.' My daughter has told me how glad she is that I'm her Mom & how she tells her friends about me & they say "Wow, your Mom is so neat." That really makes me feel pretty good, especially right now! Thanks for sharing & for supporting the "cruel to be kind" school. I'm feeling pretty good today, but haven't seen our son yet today & he camped on the patio again last nite. I guess I'll have to go out in the night & speak to him!! Oh well.
> > > >
> > > > I'm excited that you got your hair done! I have chin-length naturally-curly (VERY) hair & recently, I went to the hair dresser & said I'm so SICK of always having it the same way!!!!! He dried it with the blow-dryer & a round brush & it was smooth & straight with a slight curl under & made bangs going sideways. I LOVED IT!!! I got it done a few times like that I truly love it. I can't do it myself, so just touch it up with the brush & blow-dryer & wait AGES to wash it. The minute it's damp out my hair goes "BOING!" into curls! I wanted to get it done again, but it's been rainy alot & it would be a waste of money because BOING! Anyway, I do know now that I can do that. It feels wonderful to have my "straight" hair blow in the wind.
> > > >
> > > > Thx for sharing about your son. Apparently marijuana today is massively stronger than in my teen days. Therefore it has a way stronger effect on users. I've heard this from various sources.
> > > >
> > > > Hope all your ironing & packing etc. goes well. Take wonderful care of yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Hugs. Kath :-)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > HI KERRY B. - I'm answering throughout your post & will mark my entries with .............
> >
> >
> > > Hi Kath!!
> > > Glad to hear you are feeling a bit better today.
> > > You ARE SO LUCKY to have curly hair! I pay a fortune to get my hair permed so it's curly, my hair is flat straight and I have to style it every day with the blow dryer and the faithful old round brush I have! It's a real pain!!!
> >
> > ..................I know, people always say I'm so lucky, but it does what it wants to & that's not often what I'd like. I did go today & got it done. Isn't that funny; you curl yours with a round brush & blow dryer & I get mine done that way at the hairdresser's & then smooth it out with the round brush & dryer! Oh well, seems like most people aren't satisfied with their hair. I suppose with my permanent permanent, at least when I go swimming I just let it dry after & it looks like it always does.
> >
> > > Just wondering why your son camps out on the patio. Is it because of the hours he keeps or he just prefers it that way?
> >
> > ..............I don't know where I posted about it. Our son smokes pot daily, is unpredictable modd-wise (depends where on the drug-use cycle he is). He's been attending a day-treatment/school program. We've been having family councelling there, but all he's interested in is US making changes. He doesn't seem interested in HIM making any changes ALSO. A couple of weekends ago my son was gone for 4 days without letting us know his whereabouts. It turned out that he'd gone to a town about an hour & a bit from here with a friend from school & just didn't let us know. We had the police looking for him & tried to keep from getting too frantic. Then last weekend, we were planning to go away for the weekend; told our son he was invited to his sister's & we'd take him there - that if he didn't go, we needed him to make other arrangements, because we didn't want him or his friends in the house. When we got home, he's come in through the basement window & the pot smoke in his room was such that if you wanted to get stoned, just go in there & breathe. The next day (last Mon) we told him that because of how things have been going for the past months, we've decided that if there is a major breaking of our house rules, Strike 1 will be 2 full days off our property, Strike 2 will be 4 full days, Strike 3 will be find somewhere else to live. We said that if a serious enough event happened, it would be directly to Strike 3. We live in Canada. He is 16 & parents are legally responsible for providing shelter until out children are 16. Well, the very day after we told him about the Strikes, he was confrontational with me; demanding; disrespectul & stole $160. from my purse! So we went directly to Strike 3. I put some of his stuff in a knapsack & put his sleeping bag out in a plastic bag. Since then, he had been coming onto the patio after we were in bed, sleeping on the lounge in his sleeping bag & leaving before we got up. Last nite & the nite before, he slept elsewhere. He has a list of resources for teens, shelters, his social worker at the school, etc. & a phone card. He's been back to get his bag etc. & wasn't respectful. He's tried to get me to give him the support $ that I receive from his bio-Dad; he's tried to get me to give him money; etc. So that's where we're at. I've told him that even though he probably hates us right now & it probably feels like we hate him, we do love him. I've told him that if he has a plan in place & no way to get to a resource center or job-hunting, he can call me & we'll see what we can work out. He told me that he has somewhere he can live if he gets a job. I am completely worn down by his situation over the past year & a half (at least).
> >
> >
> > > When my 18 yr old was living with us a while ago, I could never sleep properly, sort of subconsciously waiting to hear him come home and when he did, be it whatever hour in the morning, I would get up and have a chat with him, not a confronting chat but a "as a matter of fact chat" and he'd end up telling me bit by bit of what he did and where he was then all I had to do was put all the pieces together and I'd have the full
> > story without him even realizing.
> >
> > .......My son & I communicate pretty well & he tells me alot of things, but the drugs get in the way BIG_TIME. I never know who I'm going to be talking to - my nice kid, who I like, or some confrontation, disrepectful jerk. (He's called me a F-ing Bi--- etc.)
> >
> > > We always have to be one step ahead and it's a tiring job. He no longer lives here any more, he moved back to the city with his brother.
> > > Not blaming him or anything, but I think having him live with us for 7 months, trying to get him an identity as he had nothing, and trying to educate him about the real world took it's toll on my health. I lasted out while he was here, I always put on a happy face even though I was very depressed, but now, I finally broke down, the build up became too much and so I became ill again.
> >
> > ..............I know! I think he's what caused my anxiety to get worse & worse. Now that he's out of the house, I feel so calm. Yes, I'm upset about it sometimes, but I don't feel as if I don't know what to expect, & I don't keep having his "stuff" to deal with.
> >
> > > Anyway, we as mothers, have to take care of ourselves and stop being last all the time because if we become ill, who is there to run the household? I wouldn't hand it over to my hubby, he just has no idea!!!!! I think bringing up kids is like sailing a ship, we are the captains, we say the orders and show direction as long as the crew will obey. We begin in calm waters, a storm comes along but we manage to sail through it as best we can and then after the storm passes us by, we hit sunshine. It's a never ending journey but it is an adventure!!!!! That's the way I look at it! Hope I make sense!
> >
> > .........Makes ALOT of sense. I don't feel like I want the "teenage adventure" right now, or for the near future - I should say the "drug-using-tennage adventure". They're 2 different things, for sure.
> >
> > > Well, my kids left for grandma"s a little while ago so I am alone and I really don't know what to do with myself! Strange how you look forward to the break and when you get it you feel lost!!!
> > > We are having friends over this-afternoon so I guess I could get ready for that.
> > > O.K. I'll go now, keep smiling and big hugs to you!!!
> > >
> > > Kerry :)
> >
> > I hope it doesn't take you too long to get into the swing of what to do with all that TIME for yourself!!. Hope you & your friends have fun.
> >
> > Take care. Hugs, Kath
Hi Kerry - I'll answer throughout as follows.........
First of all, I put your name in CAPS so it'll be easy for you to locate a post for you, as you mentioned that you have trouble locating them sometimes. Hope this helps......>> Hi Kath,
> Wow, my second day without the kids and I'm finally used to it now!! When they left yesterday, I felt lost and lonely so I moved two rooms around and that made me feel better!.............I tend to tidy inside drawers, cupboards, etc. when I'm really upset; seems to help me feel that things are in order. Odd that I don't tackle the piles of papers, articles, books, etc. that await me & make me feel disordered! Oh well.
> How are you today????..............I'm not too bad, but sorta down, I guess, if I'm honest. I'm going to have to re-think my "kindness" thing. Yesterday morning my son was on the patio again & I told him that I had some things to tell him re: the extent of my involvement in his job/shelter-hunting, & would he like to buy some breakfast & go out to my "garden-plot" at the edge of town & eat at the picnic table there. I let him come in to have a shower first. He was fine with that (was probably hungry). However, I realized today, after dropping him off in the very next town to us on the understanding that he was going to look at the "job-board" - he isn't really interested in getting a proper job & a place to stay. He wants to look into a 1-day a week job & says he doesn't want to ruin his summer (!!!). He also said that he doesn't want to put himself fully into looking for a job because if he can't get one he would be really upset & give up. I think he might be somewhat insecure about getting a job, but I also think that by letting him shower/taking him for breakfast I'm giving mixed messages & not establishing clear enough bondaries. I'm really disappointed that he isn't REALLY trying to change his situation. I don't like the thought of not letting him have a shower etc. but I think I have to make the boundaries clearer :-(
> I don't know whether it's a boy thing, but they just can't seem to understand where we are coming from. We can be kind and patient or we can be angry but they always seem to see the problem as being us.
.............Yup; seems so, although my now-lovely 24-yr-old daughter was somewhat similar.
> I like this strike thing you have going. He seems to understand that, but he must have somewhere else to go to shower etc or is he allowed in for that. Where does he eat?.........I think he gets his friends to share if they go to restaurants; has lunch at friends' houses, etc. He tends not to eat all that much anyway. I think the only showers he's had are 2 here. I guess he goes to the washroom at friends' houses or coffee shops.
> It is hard being a mother because they always reflect it back onto us but don't worry yourself about it, it will all change. My eldest 21, used to balme me for his dad & I splitting up, that went on for a long time but now, he is ok and we have a great relationship. Things can only get better.
.........Thanks - at least I have my daughter t0o look at & realize "hey, she turned out fine".
> That's what I wanted to ask you: Have you ever read a book by Barbara Johnson called "Stick a Geranium in your hat and be Happy"? She is an american woman and runs a ministry called Spatula Ministries. It is such a good book and I think it would benefit you right now. See if you can find it, it is everywhere over here, mainly in Christian Book stores, I highly recommend it for you. She went through troubles with her sons so you might pick up some tips (hers were a little different but give it a go), it has some good things on how to get through ordeals and stay on top.
..............Thanks, Kerry - sounds just perfect for me right now; I'll look into it right away.
> I think you did the right thing when he stole the money out of your purse. I know I would do the same thing. It means they can't be trusted and I think it takes a fair while until you can have that trust again. How long has he been on pot? Was it one year now? In my experience, that's early days, sorry, don't want to bring you down.
.........Yes, I can't trust him now, especially when he says, "well, if you don't trust me, what's the point in me trying to be trustworthy?" I think that was his attitude when he took the money. He's been a weed-head for about almost 2 years now. (Sorry for the name-calling, but somehow it sometimes helps me to do that. I don't say it to him personally!)
I feel that it doesn't agree with him. What was he like before he started on it? Was he respectful and reliable and trustworthy? It's hard to watch a family member slide backwards.
...........He has ADD (Not ADHD); is artistic, unmotivated unless he likes something, lazy (would rather throw an empty cookie package on the rec room floor than put it in the waste-basket 5 feet away from him for ex.), not too reliable although he had been getting better, was totally trustworthy regarding stealing from us & that type of thing...so were his friends. You're right, it IS hard to see this happening. It's especially hard because before I went on holiday a few weeks ago, he was sick for over a week & was drug-free for 9 days & our relationship was getting so nice. Then he got better, out seeing his friends again, smoking up again & unpredictable emotionally again.
If only he would seek help, but I guess he feels he's ok.
> Has his appearance changed? What you could do, when he's in an approachable mood, is show him a photo of what he looked like before and what he looks like now. It could be a shock tactic?.......He did go to the day-treatment/school thing, but probably only so he could live here. He doesn't seem to think there's a problem. I thing he has to hit a "bottom" & hopefully it won't be TOO low, but who knows? He is thinner, but doesn't look sick etc. at this point.
> If he disappears for days on end, don't worry. He's done it before and always come back, so don't worry, let's hope one day he'll come home with his "tail between his legs", so to speak), and apologize for what he's done.
..........Thanks, Kerry; I'm getting 'way better about leaving him in God's hands. I figure God loves him more than even I do. I am not a churchy person, but I do believe strongly in a loving God, whose love is 'way bigger than human love.
> In this situation, time is the only solution, time and patience and understanding. I'm not adding sympathy because they have their choice as to what to do with thier lives and if they choose the hard road, they have to suffer the knocks that come with it,
..........I agree with the above. I think he has to learn by the knocks that will come with that hard road. My difficult job right now, is to let him walk that hard road & be strong in it (it's hard sometimes). The think that helps me is to remember how it feels when he's snotty to me.
So dear Kath, please do not let this get you down.
> You deserve your happiness in life, you have done all you can from birth until now so it is up to him to pull himself together and take a good look at what he is doing to the ones that love him!!!!!
> Agree!!!!...........You got it, Kerry. I'll try to stay strong & keep my mind otherwise occupied & I realized today that it's important for me NOT to see him. If he needs to speak to me he'll have to do it by phone. I'll be telling him that next time I do see him. That will help me alot, I think.
> Well, I'll go now and do some puzzles, they keep my mind open!!!!
.............What kind? I like crossword puzzles. Could do them for ages; find them very relaxing. I hope you're doing some nurturing for yourself.
> Please take it easy and know that you are in my prayers!!!!!!
Thanks for your prayers. You're in mind also. Hey, be sure to do stuff you enjoy okay?? (Well, maybe moving furniture is one of them.) You've earned a break; please take good care of yourself during this time. Let me know. I hope the weather is nice for your "time off".
Hugs to you.
Kath
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.