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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on February 15, 2008, at 22:49:15
WHY won't you pull a post when its obvo ongoingly harmful and triggering to all, not JUST the dissed poster????
What possibly could your reasoning be???? Continuity? Just say post was pulled, thats all.
WHY not validate a poster when they been dissed? Even if the disser is already blocked, it still would be nice to acknoledge that poster has been hurt.
The responses to complaints are often slow in comming, or no reply at all.
Bob, YOU are the owner and responsible, NOT the deps. You ask too much of them IMHO.
OFTEN you do not answer posts to you Bob, or do not answer questions directed at you. That to me is rude and selective and hurtful.
And I could use the notify admin button for this, but this post is a general post for all to read, cuz mebbe others have feedback....or maybe not. maybe they are afraid :-(
I can't stand to see things that seem should be obviosly done, and not obvious just to me, but you will not change Bob.
Sigh.
I can only hope your intentions are good.
I miss the babblers.
But I just can't tolerate the injustices.
The ongoing hurts for want of simply pulling a post.
:-(
Makes me sad.
M
Posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 23:38:00
In reply to Yeah Bob and Is this just me?:-(, posted by muffled on February 15, 2008, at 22:49:15
Dr Bob hasn't pulled posts in the past in similar circumstances. But babblers have decided as a group to involve themselves in lively conversations if a distressing post is showing on the current page.
Within the three post rule of course. And Dr. Bob is not overly fond of posting *simply* to move a post into the archives and off the current page.
But if a good many lively and cheerful or interesting and meaningful discussions, related to the board in question, were to suddenly arise, I can't help but believe that Dr. Bob would be pleased enough to see posters working together to support each other in a positive way.
Posted by muffled on February 16, 2008, at 2:40:37
In reply to Re: Yeah Bob and Is this just me?:-(, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 23:38:00
You got a great big heart.
You work so hard.
I get what your saying.
But I can't do it.
I want Bob to geta grip.
Sigh.
I have grave doubts he will.
Guess he's as messed as the restof humanity in his own way.
Noone is perfect.
But its too much.
Thanks Dinah.
((( dinah )))
I mean that.
M
Posted by Racer on February 16, 2008, at 9:05:36
In reply to Bless you Dinah, posted by muffled on February 16, 2008, at 2:40:37
> You got a great big heart.
> You work so hard.
>
> Noone is perfect.
>Absolutely true, no one is perfect.
Dinah comes close, though, doesn't she?
And Muffled? You're pretty great yourownself.
Posted by MidnightBlue on February 16, 2008, at 12:27:17
In reply to Truth about Dinah » muffled, posted by Racer on February 16, 2008, at 9:05:36
Dinah does come close to perfect. Thanks for all your hard work and level head, Dinah.
MB
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 17, 2008, at 2:09:54
In reply to Yeah Bob and Is this just me?:-(, posted by muffled on February 15, 2008, at 22:49:15
> WHY won't you pull a post when its obvo ongoingly harmful and triggering to all, not JUST the dissed poster????
Dissing is part of life, even here. I'd like to encourage ways of dealing with it besides trying to make it disappear.
> > I like the permanency, in a way, because it creates an amazing historical record of truth, not made nicer or glossed over. I especially like the idea that this accepts and includes "bad" impulses and expressions--as if saying that we can all get carried away, and say mean things, and yet we'ere basically accepted as part of the community--and we can accept this about one another, without having to deny or erase it--so this part of all of us is acknowledged,, even though it's important to try not to act on the impulse.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060622/msgs/662558.html
Also, there's sometimes interest in what people have posted in the past. So they might think twice before dissing someone in the first place.
Also, this way it's more clear what's administratively responded to how.
> WHY not validate a poster when they been dissed? Even if the disser is already blocked, it still would be nice to acknoledge that poster has been hurt.
I haven't been posting to those who may feel hurt when I block someone. Maybe I should. My hope is that they see the block as validating, and that other posters support them directly.
Bob
Posted by Kath on February 17, 2008, at 18:49:30
In reply to Re: Yeah Bob and Is this just me?:-(, posted by Dinah on February 15, 2008, at 23:38:00
The three post rule.
Does that mean starting 3 new threads in a row?
Say I had posted & there were replies & I wanted to reply to 5 other posters in that thread. Is that okay?
thx, Kath
Posted by Dinah on February 17, 2008, at 18:52:35
In reply to Re: Yeah Bob and Is this just me?:-( » Dinah, posted by Kath on February 17, 2008, at 18:49:30
Yes, that's one of the exceptions, so that's fine.
Posted by Kath on February 17, 2008, at 18:59:29
In reply to Re: Yeah Bob and Is this just me?:-( » Kath, posted by Dinah on February 17, 2008, at 18:52:35
Thanks Dinah
(((((((((((you)))))))))
Thx for being a deputy.
Kath
Posted by muffled on February 17, 2008, at 22:10:31
In reply to Re: pulling posts, posted by Dr. Bob on February 17, 2008, at 2:09:54
> > WHY won't you pull a post when its obvo ongoingly harmful and triggering to all, not JUST the dissed poster????
>
> Dissing is part of life, even here. I'd like to encourage ways of dealing with it besides trying to make it disappear.* of course people get hurt and you try to reduce that, but I just don't feel that leaving and ECEPTIONALLY hurtful post is worth the educational value....
Its sort of like a car accident, its hard to NOT look, and then be triggered/angered etc. And in the interests of encouraging 'dealing' with stuff, then why eg(this is just one example) does a poster get blocked, as opposed to PBC'd re: defending another poster? Are you afraid it would escalate? But then how are we to learn to curb ourselves?
> > > I like the permanency, in a way, because it creates an amazing historical record of truth, not made nicer or glossed over. I especially like the idea that this accepts and includes "bad" impulses and expressions--as if saying that we can all get carried away, and say mean things, and yet we'ere basically accepted as part of the community--and we can accept this about one another, without having to deny or erase it--so this part of all of us is acknowledged,, even though it's important to try not to act on the impulse.*permanency..."Record of 'truth'"....and yet posts ARE deleted sometimes....
Its lovely how we can accept others I am sure, and there are many milder less hurtful examples of us babblers working things out. When a person is publicly blocked, then we know there has been a transgression, it is in the post about the blocking, there IS a partial record there of the "event" for all to see and learn from. Babble is a place of support, it is not therapy. Yes it is a place we can learn stuff, including impulse control, but not when the result is so harmful to others.
I guess to me its a matter of DEGREE. There was awhile back a poster who obsessively went back to this very very hurtful post to him/her, the poster begged you to remove it, many others did too, incl me. The post was CLEARLY causing ongoing pain. To me the ratio of pain vs. learning was NOT worth 'not' pulling that post. Yet there it stayed. It just felt horribly cruel to me. Now its long gone and proly noone sees it anymore...was it worth the historicalness of it to cause that poster and others so much hurt???????????????
I also know there is a poster(blocked) who visits from time to time and spews some on the boards towards Bob(you) and the posts are usus at late night and are quickly removed....why? maybe we could learn from you accepting gracefully these seeming attacks on yourself????
It feels very unfair to me.(I am being somewhat sarcastic here, I think it is good to remove those posts as well as they would be disruptive, just making a point here.)
I know and have grown to understand somewhat the difficulties with running these boards, and fairness etc. But even when there is a combined cry of 'not fair' we seem to not be listened to. Thats what it feels like to me anyhow.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060622/msgs/662558.html*oh I see the above came from Jost. And from a post that was talking about whether leaving posts stops more negative posts. Which is NOT really what I am talking about here.(I shoulda re read this first ...argh) To some point yes of course, but when they are EXCESSIVELY cruel, they should be removed. The pain outweighs the learning aspect IMHO. There is alot of secondary upset and protectiveness and sometimes additional blocks that tend to follow this sort of thing as well, because others get triggered as well.
> Also, there's sometimes interest in what people have posted in the past. So they might think twice before dissing someone in the first place.*'sometimes'....again, is it worth the amount of hurt that goes on??? And again, at the point where I am 'going off' as it were, I am not thinking of much else other than causing pain (usu to myself) somehow.
> Also, this way it's more clear what's administratively responded to how.*Usu you DO include a 'clip' of what the trangression is in your post about the block, is that not clear enuf? I think it is.
The 'clip' also feels less personal.
The offending post feels VERY personal. We are communicating with words here, they are all we have. So a badly hurtful post IS very hurtful in a VERY REAL WAY. This is not role playing or something, its real, it HURTS.
> > WHY not validate a poster when they been dissed? Even if the disser is already blocked, it still would be nice to acknoledge that poster has been hurt.
>
> I haven't been posting to those who may feel hurt when I block someone. Maybe I should. My hope is that they see the block as validating, and that other posters support them directly.*I agree that the block could possibly feel validating. Though if its a block to a person just trying to help support another poster, but the wording is not perfect babblespeak, well then that sure makes a body feel bad :-(
I was not actually inferring that there should be additional posting over and above the block 'IN THAT THREAD', but in the case where there has been multiple harmful posts, the blocked poster is not 're-blocked'(that would be silly), but it would be nice it the transgression was noticed by you or a dep in the OTHER THREAD(s) affected AS WELL, by posting something like, I dunno, but say "Blocked PosterX" then in the post you could say this poster is already previosly blocked and provide a link.
Its just that in this way, the hurt poster feels like they have not been ignored or unnoticed etc which can be triggering on a board such as this. The blocked poster would have been(and in fact HAS been) blocked for hurting them ALSO...they are not less important, they count too...
I hope I have explained this in a logical way. I am not good at explaining things.
So,
These are my thots on this particular subject.
I have noticed that Bob does write more complete answers which is very nice and feels good.
However, I will add , that he does not always reply to posts to him...this I have noticed, and it does feel bad to be ignored. Again, this can be an issue/triggering for some on this site. Even a short answer/acknowledgement would be nice.
I know you do alot Bob, but some are slipping thru the cracks.
It has GREATLY affected how I feel about this place.
I guess there are no easy answers.
M
Posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 8:15:39
In reply to MY thots » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on February 17, 2008, at 22:10:31
> > > WHY won't you pull a post when its obvo ongoingly harmful and triggering to all, not JUST the dissed poster????
> >
> > Dissing is part of life, even here. I'd like to encourage ways of dealing with it besides trying to make it disappear.
> I also know there is a poster(blocked) who visits from time to time and spews some on the boards towards Bob(you) and the posts are usus at late night and are quickly removed....why? maybe we could learn from you accepting gracefully these seeming attacks on yourself????
These posts are deleted because the person is posting while they are blocked, which is against the site guidelines. That's the only time (that I know of) when posts are routinely deleted. If they had been made after the block had been over, they would remain in the archives like any other post, even if they were uncivil and resulted in a new block. I don't believe that the reason the posts were deleted has anything to do with the content, but rather that they were made while the poster was already blocked.Hope that clears up that particular confusion there.
ClearSkies
Posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
In reply to Re: MY thots » muffled, posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 8:15:39
in this case the poster was posting while VERY obvo they would have been blocked, just not yet cuz of time lapse.
Time lapse ONLY reason poster not yet bolcked on addtle posts.
But I bout f*ck*d bout all this sh*t.
M
Posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:21:28
In reply to well, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
I am crazy.
F*ck*d in the head.
But I MUST go on as I procreated.
Damn.
Just f*ck*d.
The whole world is f*ck*d.
Me too.
I could go on and on with the sickness thats fermenting in my brain.
But I don't wanna mess noone
Just wanna die.
Can't do that either.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
F U C K.
There now block me.
I AM AN *SS.
Posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 9:26:27
In reply to well, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
Yeah, it's a chicken and the egg case? Which came first? Is that what you're saying?
The instances I'm referring to, the poster had been blocked for a long time and re-registered under a different name in order to make the posts - that's what had been deleted. Maybe a fine distinction but one that's important IMO.
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 9:29:38
In reply to well, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:07:56
Muffled, I'm very sorry if in my attempt to explain my understanding of the guidelines that I triggered you. It wasn't at all my intention. I feel badly that I screwed this up and wish I hadn't said anything, yet again, on an Admin thread.
Take care.
CS
Posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 10:14:27
In reply to Muffled, posted by ClearSkies on February 18, 2008, at 9:29:38
Know you was trying to help.
No worries to you.
I feel sames you.
Sorry you got caught.
Just all this hurt stuff is so hard for me, and you too I know, and we try and help, and its so hard, and it hurts.
Sorry to send any hurt your way.
:-(
This why I stay away too.
Just sometimes I wish it could feel better here.
Lotsa good people.
((CS))
M
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 20, 2008, at 14:27:04
In reply to You'll have to excuse me babbleworld*trigger*, posted by muffled on February 18, 2008, at 9:21:28
> F * C K
...by not bypassing the automatic asterisking system to use language that could offend others.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by muffled on February 20, 2008, at 14:31:36
In reply to Please be civil/ follow site guidelines.... » muffled, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on February 20, 2008, at 14:27:04
Posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
In reply to Re: pulling posts, posted by Dr. Bob on February 17, 2008, at 2:09:54
>
>
> I haven't been posting to those who may feel hurt when I block someone. Maybe I should. My hope is that they see the block as validating, and that other posters support them directly.
>
> BobI am very concerned that you can "hope that a banned memeber can see the block as validating."
Explain that to PB members, please. I know that others must be puzzled over your MO concerning blocking posters. Man, I was "blocked" many times when I was growing up. It sucked then and for some, it sucks now.How do other posters support them directly? I see that some people are scared to post and show support as it might compromise their positions here.
Why don't you write to those who feel hurt? Did I not understand you when you said that this is a support forum? If you have time to block, it stands to reason that you have time to babblemail the "blockee".....
I don't see how you can say one thing and do another. I am very puzzled about the administrator not taking the time to let the person know that being hurt is taken into consideration and validate that by contacting the poster yourself.
Trust me when I say that the statement that you make about "this doesn't mean that I think you are a bad person???????? I always get a hole in my stomach when I see you post that. I think it does cause some posters to feel that they are bad, after all they got the rug pulled out from under them.
I oppose the blocks, obviously. (I am not all that bothered to be blocked as I withdrew my deep investment in PB a long time ago.And when you do block me, my investment reduces even more.
That doesn't mean that other more vulnerable posters detach and remain comfortable knowing that they have are being denied their support system that they have placed so much trust in.
What is that saying? "out of sight, out of mind"?
I feel that it is apparent that you have adopted that MO and that sort of does away with the idea that anyone can be here and be safe.
Lots of people, myself included, can be in a dreadful spot and say something that they ordinarily wouldn't say. Wouldn't it be beneficial (for you and the poster) if a personal inquiry was made, via babblemail, to try to find out what the "heck is going on" with the poster?
Faye
Posted by 10derHeart on February 28, 2008, at 13:33:04
In reply to Re: pulling posts » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
> > I haven't been posting to those who may feel hurt when I block someone. Maybe I should. My hope is that they see the block as validating, and that other posters support them directly.
> > Bob> I am very concerned that you can "hope that a banned memeber can see the block as validating."
I think there is a misunderstanding about who (whom?-I never know) Dr. Bob was talking about. The way I read the thread, muffled was asking about not deleting certain kinds of posts (that have led to a block) - the kind in the FAQ called "particularly inappropriate," so that posters hurt by those posts wouldn't have to continue to see them on the boards.
When he answered, I understood him to be talking about the "victim" who was likely hurt by the words in the post (as the uncivil words were directed at them personally), and that he hopes issuing the block will be seen as validating by *that* person, not the "blockee." And that he hopes other posters support the "victim" of any hurtful words in the uncivil post(s), but maybe he ought to consider saying something to them himself.
At least that's the way I read it. I don't think anyone asked, or that he addressed, actions, emails, etc. toward the person who has been blocked - not in this thread, anyway.
Which of course, doesn't make any of your comments or questions invalid or unimportant in any way. I just thought maybe it would clear up confusion to see which posters Dr. Bob was actually referring to in his post above.
Actually, I thought they were thought-provoking questions, and that others here would also like to hear Dr. Bob's answers to them.
Posted by muffled on February 28, 2008, at 14:28:45
In reply to MY thots » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on February 17, 2008, at 22:10:31
Posted by Kath on February 29, 2008, at 10:59:05
In reply to Re: pulling posts » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
Hi you.
Maybe this explains your "very missed" by me & probly others absence of posts at Social. I've been missing you there.
I'm sorry so many people are upset & I appreciate that people post here about it & I hope it can get resolved.
(((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))))))
luv, Kath
Posted by fayeroe on February 29, 2008, at 14:31:36
In reply to Re: pulling posts » fayeroe, posted by 10derHeart on February 28, 2008, at 13:33:04
Posted by fayeroe on February 29, 2008, at 14:33:02
In reply to Re: pulling posts » fayeroe, posted by Kath on February 29, 2008, at 10:59:05
> Hi you.
>
> Maybe this explains your "very missed" by me & probly others absence of posts at Social. I've been missing you there.
>
> I'm sorry so many people are upset & I appreciate that people post here about it & I hope it can get resolved.
>
> (((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))))))
>
> luv, KathI've missed you!! Thanks, Faye
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2008, at 22:09:21
In reply to Re: pulling posts » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 28, 2008, at 12:06:46
> of course people get hurt and you try to reduce that, but I just don't feel that leaving and ECEPTIONALLY hurtful post is worth the educational value....
Hmm, maybe not. It might be a can of worms, what exactly to consider exceptionally hurtful, but we could try. Or maybe we could leave the post, but delete the most hurtful sections of it.
> And in the interests of encouraging 'dealing' with stuff, then why eg(this is just one example) does a poster get blocked, as opposed to PBC'd re: defending another poster? ... how are we to learn to curb ourselves?
That's a good question. If someone is interested in learning to curb themselves, they could ask for help?
> in the case where there has been multiple harmful posts ... it would be nice it the transgression was noticed by you or a dep in the OTHER THREAD(s) affected AS WELL, by posting something like, I dunno, but say "Blocked PosterX" then in the post you could say this poster is already previosly blocked and provide a link.
> Its just that in this way, the hurt poster feels like they have not been ignored or unnoticed etc which can be triggering on a board such as this. The blocked poster would have been(and in fact HAS been) blocked for hurting them ALSO...they are not less important, they count too...
> I hope I have explained this in a logical way. I am not good at explaining things.
>
> muffledThanks for the suggestion! I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but the deputies and I discussed it and agreed that to do that. For example:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080303/msgs/817316.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080303/msgs/817317.html--
> How do other posters support them directly? I see that some people are scared to post and show support as it might compromise their positions here.
I can see how people might be concerned that if they support blocked posters, then we might see them as not supporting us. But direct forms of support, for example, saying you care about them and look forward to their return, are fine. Support is the goal here.
But indirect forms of support, for example, saying I went overboard and should've blocked a different poster instead, might be considered uncivil.
> Lots of people, myself included, can be in a dreadful spot and say something that they ordinarily wouldn't say. Wouldn't it be beneficial (for you and the poster) if a personal inquiry was made, via babblemail, to try to find out what the "heck is going on" with the poster?
>
> FayeIt could be beneficial if other posters reached out to them, too, and we'd be open to hearing what was going on, but in our administrative roles I think we need to act on what was posted.
Bob
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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