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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by fayeroe on April 11, 2004, at 9:42:13
In reply to Um..., posted by Chuckie on April 10, 2004, at 11:47:58
Do I understand that you're to be hospitalized for withdrawal from methadone? You will be most likely be given meds during the withdrawal. That would be standard practice. Withdrawal from anything is usually fairly difficult, but you should get through it to the other side fine. I'll be thinking of you and praying a prayer....Best, Pat
Posted by spoc on April 11, 2004, at 10:46:03
In reply to Re: Um... » Chuckie, posted by fayeroe on April 11, 2004, at 9:42:13
Hi Fayeroe, I haven't been around here long but was trying to recall if I'd seen any relevant threads for him, because I think the situation is that he's going to be hospitalized for detox from morphine tomorrow; but is wondering if he should skip what he sees as the agony of that and just try using a methadone clinic instead. And also, that he was hoping someone here could describe the actual experience of being in a hospital for detox to him, because he has scary images like something out of a bad movie in mind. Maybe you can recall such a thread; or he could probably find some if he looks. But -- Chuckie, if you're still reading -- today I was thinking it might not even be a good idea to look at that stuff now. We can assume many people don't exactly recall it as having been a pleasant experience, and it couldn't be, so memories may even be distorted by that. But they are surely glad in the long run that they did it, which is by far what matters. And I do doubt there are many cases in which the setting is like what you're picturing! If you can, post back about how everything went! Best wishes. : )
----
> Do I understand that you're to be hospitalized for withdrawal from methadone? You will be most likely be given meds during the withdrawal. That would be standard practice. Withdrawal from anything is usually fairly difficult, but you should get through it to the other side fine. I'll be thinking of you and praying a prayer....Best, Pat
Posted by fayeroe on April 11, 2004, at 10:52:08
In reply to Re: Um... » fayeroe, posted by spoc on April 11, 2004, at 10:46:03
Chuck, my daughter was hospitalized for detox from heroin. Our personal family experience is this: she was medicated and it was unpleasant but nothing that she, and we, could not deal with. Methadone creates a dependency and also causes a plethora of medical problems and it is also very difficult to get off of. She chose to stay off methadone and is now healthy and doing very well in her life. I am only speaking from our experience and I wish you the best.
Thanks, spoc, for your concern for Chuckie! I hope he is reading all of this. I did not think that it would be good for him to search out all of the threads from others as I agree that everyone is different and they all relate differently to withdrawal and hospitalization. Pat
Posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 12:34:04
In reply to Re: sorry if not a good time to bother you but.... » Chuckie, posted by spoc on April 10, 2004, at 22:18:42
Hi Spoc,
I did some asking around, but nobody wants to tell me anything. They just ask me if i want to go into detox, or if i want to go into residential? treatment, and here's the forms to fill out that'll be $110 and the clinician will do an intake the Thursday after next.
They act like i do this all the time.
.....
Tramadol, yes, i got a prescription for that. I couldn't take it b/c it made me feel yucky, sorta like a trycyclic(sp?) antidepressant. I also felt spacy and, for lack of a better word, 'stupid.' My appetite was impaired. And so, between the overall yuckiness and the poor appetite, my workouts suffered, and i coudn't have that b/c pumping iron was the very most important thing in my life.
I gave it i think two weeks to stop annoying me and it didn't stop, so i did.
I'm only telling you this because you asked. Please don't get my side effects. ;) I'm very sensitive to chemicals and so your mileage is very likely to vary.
>>On another note, did you mean that you are mainly stopping because what you take is too hard to keep obtaining?<<
I'm stopping because of several reasons. The primary reason is it scared me when i got severe w/d symptoms simply because i didn't take enough one night. It scared me that i had developed so much tolerance, so fast. And the quantities required to prevent w/d and provide relief, are such that i'm ingesting too much and it makes me feel yucky. Feeling bad is of course, the opposite of my intent. My intent was to feel normal. In a nutshell, i made a really bad mistake.
BTW for anyone who is reading along, my mistake was to think i could make tea out of opium poppies to relieve my depression, and keep my usage under control. Please don't try this. I understand everyone's different, but i thought i was different enough to get away with this and i wasn't. My reference and rationale was how well i handled Vicodin when i had access to it. Opium is not the same thing.
- Chuckie
Posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 12:38:01
In reply to Re: Ok, possibly more helpful... » Chuckie, posted by spoc on April 10, 2004, at 23:27:34
It's gonna take me a while to wade through all that, and i'm trying to go slow today b/c it's almmost Monday and i feel like a condemned man.
I just wanted to thank you for the help and concern. Dang, that makes my eyes water.
- Chuckie
Posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 12:46:32
In reply to Re: Um... » Chuckie, posted by fayeroe on April 11, 2004, at 9:42:13
>>Do I understand that you're to be hospitalized for withdrawal from methadone?<<
Don't i wish. No, i have a problem with poppy tea, if you've ever heard of such a thing. It's more serious than it sounds, i mean i know it sounds kinda funny.
I was looking for an opiate to relieve my depression, is all. Can't get a steady supply of Vicodin, bupenorphine is impossible to get, and i know nothing about methadone except you don't get it until you have an opiate problem already.
So now that i've got an opiate problem, i'm wondering if i can't have methadone. I so don't want to be sick. I'm really scared.
- Chuckie
Posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 12:59:19
In reply to Re: Um... » spoc, posted by fayeroe on April 11, 2004, at 10:52:08
>>Our personal family experience is this: she was medicated and it was unpleasant<<
Could you describe about how much 'unpleasant' it was for HER? I mean is she around to ask, or did she describe it to you? Lord, i'm scared.
>>Methadone creates a dependency and also causes a plethora of medical problems<<
Well i'm not scared of dependency so long as something helps me. Like, i'm dependant on Klonopin and have been for 15 years, but it doesn't bother me b/c i didn't develop tolerance and it helps me very much.
OTOH, i sure don't want a "plethora of medical problems." Are these health problems the usual associated with opiates, or does methadone have it's own set of bad things?
The point being that i got in this pickle because i want opiates, because taken in moderation they fix my depression and make me feel normal. I don't see that desire going away because i detoxed, i expect i'll just be back where i started.
Thanks,
- Chuckie
Posted by spoc on April 11, 2004, at 13:16:11
In reply to Hey THANKS, Spoc, posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 12:38:01
> It's gonna take me a while to wade through all that, and i'm trying to go slow today b/c it's almmost Monday and i feel like a condemned man.
> > I just wanted to thank you for the help and concern. Dang, that makes my eyes water.>
--------Hi Chuckie, I'm glad it helps to know people care, but like I mentioned I ended up thinking it probably couldn't help matters to look at that stuff. Recollections are bound to be skewed by the very nature of the thing, and even by apprehensions and expectations like yours that precede even getting to the place, so it's not worth it. A lot of it probably comes merely from having had to adjust to not being in the driver's seat for awhile too, and that irritation may linger for some. Edit, edit, where's the edit button! I'll send you links about puppies and sunrises and warm apple pie instead! You should just spend today relaxing the heck out of yourself and focusing on how this whole episode is more than half over already, now that you've decided to just go ahead and do this really great thing for yourself. Which you will end up proud of, and able to be of help to others through by sharing your experiences! Use today to make it all feel like a good thing, because d*mn it, it IS! :- )
Posted by fayeroe on April 11, 2004, at 15:29:44
In reply to Re: Um... » fayeroe, posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 12:59:19
Chuckie, I just got from my daughter's house where we did Easter stuff.....we talked about your dilemna. Methadone causes you to have serious bone problems, teeth problems, etc. Very serious stuff, methadone. I've heard heroin junkies describe it as being worse than heroin. One of her old boyfriends has been on it for almost six years and he's had problems that have caused him to almost lose his band...he's like the best drummer in Austin, Tex....one eye droops and his teeth are falling out. Her discomfort during a medicated withdrawal was very tolerable...she said to tell you this. She encourages you to do it medically with a physician's help. She's been clean, totally, for three years and has a new baby that was born three months prematurely. Her baby now weighs 8 lbs and 3 ozs...after being born at 1 lb., 9ozs. My daughter's health is great. She also tested positive for HepC at one time and that is in remission now. I can't urge you enough to try to get off the poppy tea...do it with a physician, if at all possible. We will be thinking of you and praying for you. She made it and she used heroin, big time, for 7 years. Best!!!
Posted by spoc on April 11, 2004, at 18:24:08
In reply to Re: Um..., posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 12:46:32
Ok, positive commentaries found on the experience, from people who would definitely know! And agreed virtually unanimously, go inpatient! This one's an easy skim, even with frazzled nerves. I thought maybe since you posted your question at Babble, you hadn't found a forum like this one (I think you can even email or IM some of the posters if registered, but probably a little late for that):
http://opium.poppies.org/index.php?s=9d387fc9ee9dfb125e78152460662940&act=ST&f=18&t=4400&st=0I read somewhere else that *some* people who were given Neurontin in high doses found it helpful -- maybe that's an option they'll mention. I'm out of my league completely here but maybe that's an all-around better option than methadone.
Again, all the best to you! : )
Posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 21:03:22
In reply to Re: Good words! :- ) » Chuckie, posted by spoc on April 11, 2004, at 18:24:08
Ya know i've been trying to get into that forum for ages now. The registration is closed and staff won't return my emails. I tried before i took the flower, when possibly someone might have talked me out of it. And i tried *repeatedly* after i started to think i had a problem, and my inquiring emails turned into unabashed begging.
Needless to say, i'm not happy with the administrators of that site. So i quit going there b/c reading just made me frustrated to know there was a community type resource like that and i couldn't participate. :(
Anyway, it's pretty much resolved i am going to try to get into the hospital tomorrow.
There's a new complicating factor that i hadn't anticipated. When i saw the PA on Thursday, she gave me Wellbutrin, i guess so as to give me *something* since it's gonna be two months before i get to see the gummint doctor. In the time since then, after a rocky start, Wellbutrin has worked a minor miracle on my depression. I feel pretty darn good, and i look it.
HOWEVER, when me and my counselor first discussed getting into the local hospital with Medicare, she had to ask her supervisor. Her supervisor said yes, BUT he has to look like an emotional wreck. Which wasn't a problem at the time.
Now i'm all nervous about this new thing. How i'm supposed to show up at the hospital looking like a million bucks, and say "hi i feel great can i come in?"
- Chuckie
Posted by fayeroe on April 11, 2004, at 21:25:51
In reply to Re: Good words! :- ), posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 21:03:22
>
> Now i'm all nervous about this new thing. How i'm supposed to show up at the hospital looking like a million bucks, and say "hi i feel great can i come in?"
>
> - ChuckieWell, I suggest that you think of all of the things that will happen to you if you continue to use the flower and if you're serious about this, which I think you are, you'll not look so hot after about 4 or 5 hours of soul-searching.
Don't bathe, don't eat.......don't do anything to improve your "lot in life" between now and the a.m. Write down everything that scares you about using. Have you thought about losing anything from all of this? Friends? Family? Money? Job? Relationship? Or if you have experienced losses, think about how much you miss what is gone.......Write all of this down and read it more than once before a.m. If I sound hard-core about this, I am. I almost lost my daughter to heroin and I'm not going to let you go down the pipes to this tea. What you face by going through a medical withdrawal is nothing compared to losing your teeth, your general health, your looks, your energy, etc.........need I go on? I'm going to check my e.mail once before I go to bed and I'll check in the a.m. before I go to work. I can check from work. Let me know what you do! Pat
Posted by spoc on April 11, 2004, at 21:50:49
In reply to Re: Good words! :- ), posted by Chuckie on April 11, 2004, at 21:03:22
Posted by Chuckie on April 12, 2004, at 21:00:47
In reply to Re: Rah, GO CHUCKIE! : ) And a pox on that site!!! (nm), posted by spoc on April 11, 2004, at 21:50:49
My every Mental Health nightmare... my worse case scenario...
Went to the pre-arranged place, met with pre-arranged person, who took me to hospital, which receptionist said "but we don't have any beds."
Oh.
But wait! Just have a seat, don't go anywhere, we'll get someone to explore options.
OK.
Hour and a half later, this frazzled, stressed out lady comes and gets me. And then all the usual questions: Do you hear voices? Nope. Do you feel suicidal? Nope. Any inclination to hurt yourself or anyone else? Nope. Well then what are you doing here? Um, well see i have this problem with opium tea. What? Opium tea. Where you get that? I'm sorry but i don't want to tell you.
I don't know really where all the conversation wandered, but she obviously wanted a disposition before 5:00 and suddenly out of the blue she says "Well I'm calling security and having you taken to ____ Hospital. WHOA! What are these words? "Security?" "Have me taken?"
And then she wants my Medicare card and my driver's license and i said well, um, i'm not sure i want to talk to you anymore until we straighten out exactly how you're gonna 'help' me. And she says "Look, if you don't cooperate I'm going to have you committed."
So i said no, you can't do that because i haven't said anything at all to merit it, under law. And she says "well how long you been taking this Opium um, stuff? Because it's obviously made you extremely paranoid." IOW, being concerned about involuntary commitment and challenging her authority, therefore i'm "paranoid" and therefore i need to be committed. Hmm i said, no, frankly, it's people like you who make me paranoid and i don't need to be paranoid to spot a lame trick like that. Sorry, but you can't prove i'm paranoid enough to hurt anyone, either.
And more quarrelling ensued, mostly semantics in regard to the things i *did* say, and then she said "hey, I'm just here to help you. It's your choice." And i stood up real careful an quiet and said well if it's my choice i'd just as soon get out of here now. Thanks for your time.
I *really* didn't think she was gonna let it go, so i took back alleys outa there, and ended up by the canal trying to get my wife and my counselor on the cell phone. The wife, so i could find out if the cops were lurking, and my counselor so i could tell her the story in case i disappeared. Both of which worked out fine, and i'm home and presumably safe.
Rats.
But tomorrow i have appointment w/ some outpatient clinic, and i figure even if they can't help me it can't work out worse than today.
*sigh*
- Chuckie
Posted by fayeroe on April 12, 2004, at 21:14:18
In reply to Dang, posted by Chuckie on April 12, 2004, at 21:00:47
Posted by spoc on April 12, 2004, at 22:45:25
In reply to Dang, posted by Chuckie on April 12, 2004, at 21:00:47
> But tomorrow i have appointment w/ some outpatient clinic, and i figure even if they can't help me it can't work out worse than today.
>
From the conversation you cite it would sound like the place you were at today was not very specialized in your kind of situation, or maybe some other dynamic of that stressful situation went awry. Really glad you have a plan B. Maybe at the clinic tomorrow they'll help you decide if inpatient is what you need instead? But if so, can recommend a different place? Would be worth a plane/train ride!But it also sounds like you are feeling a lot better on the Wellbutrin so maybe that will help a whole lot if you do this on an outpatient basis. Will that necessarily be methadone? Have you cut back on tea at all yet? Did you notice the detox/bup doc locator link in the first page of that forum I posted? Geez, I better shut the you know what up, I have no clue about this stuff, just wish you the best! ;- )
Maybe if it's been a long time you could try contacting that poppy forum again, by all means possible, including the webmaster link! Maybe it was one person neglecting the helm last time. Would be so nice just so you could email some of those who've been through this and feel positively about it. I wonder if some of those posters have the same screenname at other similar kinds of sites. If so you could contact them there! The other sites I saw didn't seem as organized, harder to sift through relevant threads... but if you're only doing a search for certain names it may not be such a headache...Then again may fall into class of "change who you hang around with" (unless they're counselors now)!! Once again, better shut up Spoc! ;- )
Posted by fayeroe on April 13, 2004, at 6:57:54
In reply to Dang, posted by Chuckie on April 12, 2004, at 21:00:47
Got time to write a little more now. I'm sorry about how you were treated yesterday BUT sounds like you handled it well and you have plan B!!!
I think that you're now conquered so much that going on will be a bit easier..Hang in there and keep us posted. Gotta go to work!! Pat
Posted by Chuckie on April 13, 2004, at 11:10:26
In reply to Re: Dang » Chuckie, posted by spoc on April 12, 2004, at 22:45:25
LOL. Spoc said:
>>or maybe some other dynamic of that stressful situation went awry.<<
That's a concise analysis, you mind if i use it? I got a chuckle out of the understatement. :)
I need to chuckle about it because i'm still feeling indignant about the whole thing, and a bit vengeful even. She had no right to say any that stuff to me, and now she's permanently scared me away from that hospital. Meaning if i get sick trying to take care of myself, i have to drive far.
That's a good idea you got there, googling for screen names from the poppy forum. I think i actually met someone from there once, at another forum, and didn't think to ask him how to get in.
If i end up staying home i'm gonna need a LOT of support.
I should know more later after my appointment, and i'm waiting on phone calls to see if i can get some medication to help me (sleep, mostly, cuz i don't want to be awake all night with my brain screaming POPPIES at me.) Oh and i did put in a call about a hospital in the next city over but it was early.
I have serious doubts about handling this thing myself. I do have an emotional attachment to the stuff, and i still have the stuff, so it'll be something like that trick of quitting smoking with a pack of cigarettes in your pocket. But yes the Wellbutrin is a VERY good thing, because i keep hearing the words "crushing depression" in conjunction with the word "detox."
And no, i didn't cut back on the tea yet, b/c i wanted to test dirty if necessary yesterday, and then after ^that experience i was in no mood to try. My wife is gonna start metering it, starting tonight.
Thanks for letting me talk, and no pls don't shut up i need people to talk to me. Thanks, really.
- Chuckie
Posted by spoc on April 13, 2004, at 12:51:38
In reply to Dynamics of a Stressful Situation. » spoc, posted by Chuckie on April 13, 2004, at 11:10:26
> That's a good idea you got there, googling for screen names from the poppy forum. I think i actually met someone from there once, at another forum, and didn't think to ask him how to get in.
> > If i end up staying home i'm gonna need a LOT of support.>
---
Obviously if it's a common or generic sounding name, best to put in specific forum names too, or for that matter could just do site searches. I tried Googling my name w/o 'Dr. Bob' included and it was an avalanche of unrelated stuff. I'm sure you do know of a lot of other specifically "substance use" related forums, no? Set good search keywords at them and you should net well-suited folks. Some of these other sites are scrambled as far as corraling the desired subject. You often can't tell from post titles if the person will even go down the road you're looking for. Here are a couple topic searches I saved from the other day, but like I said I couldn't tell at a glance if they were even worth it, although each thread supposedly contains my keywords related to detox/rehab and opiates. With certain forum formats like the first one, remember that once you open a whole thread's worth of posts at once you can use Edit --> Find from toolbar to look for specific words on individual pages, so you don't have to read 5,000 irrelevant posts:http://www.drugabuse.com/boards/quickview.shtml?2x0
(Don't recall if there was a forum at this one, maybe if not there'll be a "Resources" area that will...)
www.atwatchdog.orgBut I just don't know if it's good or not to play at forums where you know there also plenty of pages in SUPPORT of continuing to use; no matter what a person's current state is! That's why I think it would be best to identify posters from the poppy site page I sent or others, who sound positive and committed to what they've done and what you want to do; and then get the heck out of dodge and just email with them!
Elsewhere you mentioned methadone as possibly trading one addiction for another, but that at least it was more mainstream. I did see a poster at the poppies forum commenting that many/most who go that route do end up w/ such an addiction, but have no clue as to whether that's still better and a step on the overall road. And I don't know if buprenorphine is any better, or is something given to someone who's had an opiate addiction, beyond for step-down detox. But whether for detox or longer term AD treatment (if it can be done in a case like yours), again I wonder if you saw this buprenorphine doc locator link that was on the forum page I sent the other day (but for your own good maybe you should give Wellbutrin a chance, it's helping you lots so far and you've probably never had a big cocktail experiment to arrive at a combo that would still -- no matter what -- be better than tea for depression):
http://buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/bwns/
---
> Thanks for letting me talk, and no pls don't shut up i need people to talk to me. Thanks, really. >
---
Are you also posting anywhere else? Get to it pal!! ;- ) I also think you should post again at PB Sub Use, in caps if necessary, stating that you're in need!!! I did read your attempt there and nothing about the title screams "help!" Try, try again -- I can't believe it wouldn't be more helpful this time. Entitle it something like "W/D; TALK TO ME PLEASE NOW AND OFTEN!"Hope your appointment went well. Please be careful about your admitted propensity to be "paranoid." Visualize the little angel and devil from the movies sitting on your respective shoulders when you enter high stress conversations about how to quit, or make any related decisions. Learn to hate and want to wrest control from the little devil, if he is the one urging you to discount or suspect what is being said to you! He may try to keep you from helping yourself, so GET MAD at the little f...... Never mind, you get the idea! It sounds cliche, but I've found that while 99.5% of such platitude suggestions that people give me make me roll my eyes, for some reason certain visualizations or mantras do take naturally and speak to me. Like the one above, and also "This too shall pass." Only in your case you still need to actively assist in getting it to start passing!
;- )
Posted by spoc on April 13, 2004, at 13:29:33
In reply to Re: Dynamics of a Stressful Situation. » Chuckie, posted by spoc on April 13, 2004, at 12:51:38
Here's a link to the neurontin topic I mentioned (very disparate viewpoints, guess it works for some and not others, like most other things) and one other thread that sounds relevant. (FYI, you probably noticed at the Bluelight links in my last reply that there are repeat threads due to overlap from keywords used, but there are different ones in each too).
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 13, 2004, at 18:18:58
In reply to HELP! OPIATE W/D, etc., posted by Chuckie on April 10, 2004, at 0:28:36
Hi Chuckie I saw your post on substance abuse but have never detoxed off a opiate or in the hospital/center so I didn't reply. You may want to call and ASK what they do. Most GOOD places will monitor you for hypertensive crisis and add Neurontin to help withdrawal AND also avoid seizure...I have heard it is like a bad flu but not as bad as you may think..if does correctly. I do not know where you are going but I almost went myself to Betty Ford..yes the poorish can get in.<G>..to get off some legal meds and that IS great place to go as are some of the places like Calvary Center. I cannot help you in any way other than to point out that you need to get info on the center you plan to detox in...look it up on google, CALL THEM AND ASK... and so on and BEST of luck...keep us posted..I bet its a nice place more dorm like no pink padded walls :-)
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 13, 2004, at 18:24:04
In reply to Dynamics of a Stressful Situation. » spoc, posted by Chuckie on April 13, 2004, at 11:10:26
Posted by fayeroe on April 16, 2004, at 18:33:48
In reply to Dang, posted by Chuckie on April 12, 2004, at 21:00:47
Chuckie:How did plan B go? Please let me know!
Posted by Chuckie on April 18, 2004, at 11:02:34
In reply to Re: Dang » Chuckie, posted by fayeroe on April 16, 2004, at 18:33:48
Hi fayeroe,
Went in on Tuesday. They gave me decreasing doses of methadone, a patch on my shoulder, and some drugs that made me all stupid and tired.
Wasnt a nice place, at all.
I'd add more but i'm not in good shape. Just got home llast night. i think they might have accelerated the process a bit much, my body is very upset with me.
Thanks for asking :)
- Chuckie
Posted by fayeroe on April 18, 2004, at 11:22:40
In reply to Plan B » fayeroe, posted by Chuckie on April 18, 2004, at 11:02:34
Hang in there~~~~~Pat
This is the end of the thread.
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