![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 45 to 69 of 69. Go back in thread:
Posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 13:12:18
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 19, 2006, at 9:01:37
Hi Liliths,
I've just posted a babblemail to you. Your last babblemeail got redirected to my bulk mail box again along with a few others. Sorry for the delay.
Shame to hear the oxytocin isn't working. I wonder if we should contact that guy who had been using it for opiate withdrawal and see what he has to say about it?
Good luck with the Kratom. Hopefully that will have some effect ;-)
>I've been reading a lot of threads and see how busy you are - you're one of the good ones out there :)
Thank you. It's good to know someone thinks I'm helpful!
Take care.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 19, 2006, at 15:52:54
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 13:12:18
Hi Q,
I figured it's easier to just write you here where I know you'll get it :)
you're not going to believe this, but my pdoc's letter is TOTALLY unusable and he's charging me $200 for it! All he talks about is how suicical I can be if not medicated properly and even calls a 'regession' i had back in 2004 a suicide attempt - which is NOT what I told PRN's pdoc so it makes his letter garbage and makes me look like a liar AND a lunatic. He didn't even do any of his own research. He simply provided the documents I have provided him when PRN's recommendation first came through and I went to see him and we called PRN
I faxed over what I thought he needed to change and was told he refuses to change a thing about the letter
I must admit, I'm becoming very iwilling to let go of my life these days... this latest development is a HUGE push over the edge
I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
thanks for your help... it looks more like my time here is almost over instead of just beginning, which was why I went back to school to begin with
it's all turning out to not be worth anything... how sad to end up like this
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> I've just posted a babblemail to you. Your last babblemeail got redirected to my bulk mail box again along with a few others. Sorry for the delay.
>
> Shame to hear the oxytocin isn't working. I wonder if we should contact that guy who had been using it for opiate withdrawal and see what he has to say about it?
>
> Good luck with the Kratom. Hopefully that will have some effect ;-)
>
> >I've been reading a lot of threads and see how busy you are - you're one of the good ones out there :)
>
> Thank you. It's good to know someone thinks I'm helpful!
>
> Take care.
>
> Q
Posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 23:58:00
In reply to UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 19, 2006, at 15:52:54
Hi Liliths,
You sound very depressed and I really feel for you with what you're going through. It seems very unfair that you are being treated like this after working so hard to get back on your feet. You *will* get back in to work because you're obviously highly qualified and committed to your work and that *does* count for something.
>I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
Don't jump to conclusions with this. If any prospective employer questions why your license is conditional you can honestly say it was over a disagreement between some doctors on the review panel about the most suitable medication to treat your condition long term and has nothing to do with your ability as a massage therapist. They can verify this without having to know the precise details.
Lilliths, is that job with the sports team still going? I'm just wondering if you can go to them in complete honesty and explain the situation? Be forthright and get it out in the open. What do you have to lose? At least you'll know for certain where you stand then.
I'm sorry to hear about the pdoc's letter. If you think he has misrepresented your regression as a suicide attempt you are entitled to query that at least and ask for an amendment. Why is he refusing to change it?
I know things seem bleak right now but there are always ways of turning things around. I'll help where I can.
Have you tried the Kratom yet?
Take care.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 21, 2006, at 10:28:36
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 23:58:00
hi Q
I posted 2 updates this morning to the 'work' thread.
Maybe I should have made it a new thread. I guess I'll find out if no one responds LOLI had to do it as 2 separate posts because for some reason the letter kept overwriting everything that came before it - maybe it was too long? I decided to post yet another version of the letter and just took out the names as I'm running out of time and feel really alone. My pdoc turned out to be a real liability, rather than a help. I feel so betrayed. His letter is actually dangerous. I'm now terrified they might contact him!
in case you're interested...
1st: an update
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/work/20061208/msgs/715397.html2nd: the letter
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/work/20061208/msgs/715400.htmlI swear, if this weren't all happening to me, I wouldn't believe it!! I live with someone and they've been just amazed to see me have to fight uphill ALL the way over this.
just took some kratom... feeling really badly today - had a pretty good day yesterday but today I just don't care again. Sitting in a BIG pot of self-pity and hopelessness. Really, I just want to die when I feel like this
I was scared to take all 5 LOL so I only took 3... but I think I'll go take the other 2... you've made it sound fairly benign (I hope!)
funny what a chicken I've become... I think it's because I feel so threatened by life these days... I expect everything to have a bad outcome as that's exactly what's been happening to me
what a bad person I must have been in a previous life
be well
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> You sound very depressed and I really feel for you with what you're going through. It seems very unfair that you are being treated like this after working so hard to get back on your feet. You *will* get back in to work because you're obviously highly qualified and committed to your work and that *does* count for something.
>
> >I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
>
> Don't jump to conclusions with this. If any prospective employer questions why your license is conditional you can honestly say it was over a disagreement between some doctors on the review panel about the most suitable medication to treat your condition long term and has nothing to do with your ability as a massage therapist. They can verify this without having to know the precise details.
>
> Lilliths, is that job with the sports team still going? I'm just wondering if you can go to them in complete honesty and explain the situation? Be forthright and get it out in the open. What do you have to lose? At least you'll know for certain where you stand then.
>
> I'm sorry to hear about the pdoc's letter. If you think he has misrepresented your regression as a suicide attempt you are entitled to query that at least and ask for an amendment. Why is he refusing to change it?
>
> I know things seem bleak right now but there are always ways of turning things around. I'll help where I can.
>
> Have you tried the Kratom yet?
>
> Take care.
>
> Q
>
Posted by liliths on December 22, 2006, at 14:08:06
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 19, 2006, at 23:58:00
hi Q
well you're off the hook regarding my license stuff now... and I am really sorry as I feel I may have caused you to feel pressured by it
interesting experience with the kratom capsules. Definitely got a buzz... subtle, though I'm not sure I would've felt comfortable riding my motorcycle or driving...
though with all the stress I've been under, particularly this past week when it was all coming to a head, it was really hard to tellnow I have to figure out the best way to take the other stuff LOL - they're all just powdered
what do you do?
I think you're right that it's not for daily use but definitely something to keep for fun :)
thanks for the tip
btw, I wore the oxycotin today but I don't know if anyone was nicer than usual to me LOL
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> You sound very depressed and I really feel for you with what you're going through. It seems very unfair that you are being treated like this after working so hard to get back on your feet. You *will* get back in to work because you're obviously highly qualified and committed to your work and that *does* count for something.
>
> >I also found out that if I do end up with a 'conditional' license, though the condition remains confidential, that fact that it IS conditional is noted. Of course, anyone will want to know why so I doubt I'd even be employable
>
> Don't jump to conclusions with this. If any prospective employer questions why your license is conditional you can honestly say it was over a disagreement between some doctors on the review panel about the most suitable medication to treat your condition long term and has nothing to do with your ability as a massage therapist. They can verify this without having to know the precise details.
>
> Lilliths, is that job with the sports team still going? I'm just wondering if you can go to them in complete honesty and explain the situation? Be forthright and get it out in the open. What do you have to lose? At least you'll know for certain where you stand then.
>
> I'm sorry to hear about the pdoc's letter. If you think he has misrepresented your regression as a suicide attempt you are entitled to query that at least and ask for an amendment. Why is he refusing to change it?
>
> I know things seem bleak right now but there are always ways of turning things around. I'll help where I can.
>
> Have you tried the Kratom yet?
>
> Take care.
>
> Q
>
Posted by Quintal on December 22, 2006, at 15:08:25
In reply to Re: UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 22, 2006, at 14:08:06
Hi Liliths,
>well you're off the hook regarding my license stuff now... and I am really sorry as I feel I may have caused you to feel pressured by it
No, not at all. I'm happy to help if I can
>interesting experience with the kratom capsules. Definitely got a buzz... subtle, though I'm not sure I would've felt comfortable riding my motorcycle or driving...
though with all the stress I've been under, particularly this past week when it was all coming to a head, it was really hard to tellI guess the buzz would be mild since you already have some tolerance to opiates? I wonder if there is a cross tolerance between opiates and mitragynine?
I mixed the Kratom powder with a bit of brandy (any spirit will do) and let it soak for a few hours the heat it a little bit. After that it's just a case of being brave and chugging it all down. It may be much stronger than swallowing the capsules.
Shame about the oxytocin. I'll contact that guy and ask him how he took it and what dose etc.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 26, 2006, at 14:44:58
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 22, 2006, at 15:08:25
hi Q
I'm having the strangest experience. I tried one of the other Kratoms from my sample pack - I admit I encapsulated it though I'm sure you're right and that it's probably not as strong that way
BUT... I'm totally stupid... hard to even get myself to write this. Normally my experience with opiates is that they sharpen my focus... in this case, my brain just feels like mush and I can't seem to get myself to do anything
I ordered some liquid extract isolates out of curiosity, having read some interesting things about them on opiophile. I'm not good at eating stuff that tastes yucky LOL Have you ever tried them? I think they're fairly new. I'll let you know when they come:
90% Mitragynine (Isolate) & 7-Acetoxy Mitragynine (Isolate)but I am also feeling EXTREMELY depressed these days - maybe that has something to do with it??
I've been in such a bad place... realize I simply don't even know how to be me anymore... don't know how to have fun, feel fun... everything just sucks and I hate feeling like this
was hoping the kratom would help today but all it did was make me feel dumb
weird huh?
most of what I've read doesn't seem to think there's a problem between mitragynine and hydro. Opiophile's forums are hysterical... some people just mix and match to get totally wasted but there are some interesting tidbits as well
I think the next time I try it I'll use your recipe or perhaps try this:
2 tbsp ground and pasteurized kratom powder, 2 tsp sifted pounded kava root powder, 1.5 tbsp cocoa powder, 1.5 tbsp honey, two sachets sucralose sweetener (eqv. 3 tsp sugar), 3 tbsp milk or substitute, 1 tbsp vodka or whiskey. Add quick oats to firm as needed. Eat on an empty stomache upon awakening.
I've been meaning to send this to you since I first saw it... the poster did later say that the measurements are not 'exact' LOL and that you didn't have to use kava root.. the idea was just to make edible balls
btw, how much kratom do you use in your recipe and which type?
anyway just wanted to say hi and fill you in on this odd reaction
hope you are doing well
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> >well you're off the hook regarding my license stuff now... and I am really sorry as I feel I may have caused you to feel pressured by it
>
> No, not at all. I'm happy to help if I can
>
> >interesting experience with the kratom capsules. Definitely got a buzz... subtle, though I'm not sure I would've felt comfortable riding my motorcycle or driving...
> though with all the stress I've been under, particularly this past week when it was all coming to a head, it was really hard to tell
>
> I guess the buzz would be mild since you already have some tolerance to opiates? I wonder if there is a cross tolerance between opiates and mitragynine?
>
> I mixed the Kratom powder with a bit of brandy (any spirit will do) and let it soak for a few hours the heat it a little bit. After that it's just a case of being brave and chugging it all down. It may be much stronger than swallowing the capsules.
>
> Shame about the oxytocin. I'll contact that guy and ask him how he took it and what dose etc.
>
> Q
>
Posted by Quintal on December 26, 2006, at 16:08:17
In reply to Re: UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 26, 2006, at 14:44:58
Hi Liliths,
Mitragynine isn't a typical opiate and has some unique properties so it isn't surprising that you had a different response to Kratom. Kratom/mitragynine is supposed to have stimulating effects at low doses and sedative effects at high doses - maybe you'd be better off taking a smaller dose, or maybe the reverse is true and you'd benefit from a higher dose? The only way to find out is to test your responses at different doses.
It's also possible that the hydrocodone is affecting your response in some way.
Thanks for the recipe. It sounds interesting ;-)
No, I've never taken the liquid extracts but I'd be interested to hear your experiences.
I still haven't got round to contacting that guy - will do it tonight.
Take care.
Q
Posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 11:55:41
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 26, 2006, at 16:08:17
hi Q
actually I still feel really stupid today and am wondering if it's a side effect of being so depressed.
I've been on 1/2 my hydrocodone dose for the past couple of weeks now. I tapered down without any problems, except, of course, becoming more depressed... which is REALLY bad timing, considering my circumstances
But I figured I should be prepared to go off it. It's even possible they won't issue me a license until I am - I haven't a clue how the board will react to the medication, much less the letter and documentation I provided in it's defense.
more than likely, they will go with PRN's recommendations, simply because it makes them 'feel' safe. I guess I wrote what I did mostly out of a sense of justice and the rage I feel at the way I've been treated. I hope they will at least hear some of what I've said about PRN not distinguishing between the people they are sent to 'evaluate' and think about making some changes
I've actually considered being off of it by the time of my interview - I haven't decided whether to continue to taper down or not.
that said, I just took 2 of them LOL My normal dosage called for 1 - 2x daily and I've just been taking 1 in the afternoon.
I haven't had any extra until today. I'm so depressed and so lost, I was curious to see what it would do.I think it will give me an indication of how the kratom affects me right now as well. I read the same thing about the dosages and actually, to some degree, that's how the hydro worked for me
I know that being this depressed and this dysfunctional won't change simply because I've taken anything. I am so 'off' right now that that, in itself, has me reeling. I don't live anymore. I just suffer. And despite my everyday decision to 'move forward' - I simply don't
I honestly don't know if I will make it through this and I can't say I really care. I went out the other evening and realized I don't even know how to be around people any more.
right now, I just want to die. What a waste it all appears to be. I don't even care about getting a damn license. It just feels like something I 'should' follow through on because of all I went through and gave up to get. I suppose if I have it, there's a possibility I could come back to being able to use it... even though that seems a distant bit of nonsense... and I also 'know' these are just feelings and therefore potentially transitory - and I have always HATED that phrase btw, simply because when immersed in them, they certainly don't feel so trivial
did I read correctly that you weren't currently on any prescribed meds? I'd like to go off of everything and use herbal supplements, except it's simply too damn expensive!! My insurance won't cover them. Nice racket the pharmeceutical companies have with insurance companies. imagine if people could be covered for their supplements!
after this experience, I want as little to do as possible with the 'powers that be'. I want off the grid
ahhh..... I am ranting... I'll stop
I apologize for blathering so
hope all is well with you
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> Mitragynine isn't a typical opiate and has some unique properties so it isn't surprising that you had a different response to Kratom. Kratom/mitragynine is supposed to have stimulating effects at low doses and sedative effects at high doses - maybe you'd be better off taking a smaller dose, or maybe the reverse is true and you'd benefit from a higher dose? The only way to find out is to test your responses at different doses.
>
> It's also possible that the hydrocodone is affecting your response in some way.
>
> Thanks for the recipe. It sounds interesting ;-)
>
> No, I've never taken the liquid extracts but I'd be interested to hear your experiences.
>
> I still haven't got round to contacting that guy - will do it tonight.
>
> Take care.
> Q
Posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 18:41:57
In reply to Re: UPDATE » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 26, 2006, at 16:08:17
hi Q
I want to apologize for my last post. You shouldn't have to deal with my depression.
I'll let this thread go and leave you be
thank you for all your help... much appreciated
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> Mitragynine isn't a typical opiate and has some unique properties so it isn't surprising that you had a different response to Kratom. Kratom/mitragynine is supposed to have stimulating effects at low doses and sedative effects at high doses - maybe you'd be better off taking a smaller dose, or maybe the reverse is true and you'd benefit from a higher dose? The only way to find out is to test your responses at different doses.
>
> It's also possible that the hydrocodone is affecting your response in some way.
>
> Thanks for the recipe. It sounds interesting ;-)
>
> No, I've never taken the liquid extracts but I'd be interested to hear your experiences.
>
> I still haven't got round to contacting that guy - will do it tonight.
>
> Take care.
> Q
Posted by teejay on December 27, 2006, at 19:36:31
In reply to Re: UPDATE sorry » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 18:41:57
Hey, don't be in such a rush to run away. There was so much in your posting that I could identify with!
The bit about not living, just suffering, and the bit about being around people meant a lot to me.
I know this doesn't help you out much, but just wanted you to know others are reading your 'ramblings' and don't want you to stop.
TJ
Posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 22:10:48
In reply to Re: UPDATE » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 27, 2006, at 11:55:41
Hi Liliths,
You don't have to apologise for being depressed - that's why most of us are here! We've been in that dark place ourselves and we want to help you find the way out.
I wonder if it's really a good idea to quit the hydrocodone? Is it worth feeling so bad just because of those b*startds at the PRN? I think you really need to be kind to yourself and take whatever you need to take to feel well. Could you call your pdoc and explain how bad you're feeling?
Is there another benzo besides Klonopin you could use? I wonder if that may be making the depression worse - how about Xanax? Also, there's lamotrigine to consider - it was *very* effective for me in combo with a benzo for two years and I'd still be taking it if I hadn't been forced to quit benzos. And maybe a tricyclic such as clomipramine? Have you tried it? It's very effective for severe depression and anxiety along with obsessive thoughts.
>did I read correctly that you weren't currently on any prescribed meds? I'd like to go off of everything and use herbal supplements, except it's simply too damn expensive!! My insurance won't cover them. Nice racket the pharmaceutical companies have with insurance companies. imagine if people could be covered for their supplements!
Yes, I'm not taking any prescribed meds right now, but if I was feeling as bad as you describe I would go back on them. You could add something like Rhodiola to your current regime - have you ever tried it? It can be amazingly effective especially as an augmenter. There's also ashwaganda which can prevent or even reverse opiate tolerance. Did you ever try low dose naltrexone to boost your natural endorphins? I wonder if the PRN would be more approving and tolerant of that - most likely they would.
Liliths, please think carefully about the hydrocodone. If it is an effective antidepressant for you then how about going back to your normal dose for now?
Q
Posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 22:59:27
In reply to Re: UPDATE sorry, posted by teejay on December 27, 2006, at 19:36:31
Vale if you're reading this could you please explain how you used the oxytocin spray and where you bought it etc.? Your babblemail is switched off so I can't contact you that way.
Thanks,
Q
Posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 23:01:48
In reply to Atypical Depression » liliths, posted by verne on December 12, 2006, at 15:48:36
Posted by liliths on December 28, 2006, at 6:42:18
In reply to Re: UPDATE sorry, posted by teejay on December 27, 2006, at 19:36:31
hi TJ
thank you for posting. It felt like it's just been Qunital and me, and he's been through so much of my crap, I really thought he deserved a break from me!! I also had posted an upate on another thread and never recieved a single response so I felt as if no one was reading any of my posts on existing threads.
I'm glad you were abe to idenitfy... I hope it was of some small comfort. It's awful to think about the state most of us are in here but I feel awful dumping so much negativity - I literally feel 'toxic' right now... sigh
trying to find my legs, my arms, my heart and my creativity... my soul and my mind may be lost forever... hell, I may have dumped my muse back there as well and that's REALLY scary
thanks again... please feel free to post your own experiences... we can trade stories :)
have you tried kratom?
There's much to learn
namaste,
lilith
> Hey, don't be in such a rush to run away. There was so much in your posting that I could identify with!
>
> The bit about not living, just suffering, and the bit about being around people meant a lot to me.
>
> I know this doesn't help you out much, but just wanted you to know others are reading your 'ramblings' and don't want you to stop.
>
> TJ
Posted by liliths on December 28, 2006, at 7:22:34
In reply to There's no need to apologize! ;-) » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 27, 2006, at 22:10:48
hi Q
thank you for your continued kindness.
The last time I went to my pdoc and complained about how depressed I was and that I wanted to consider changing some meds, he told me I just needed more exercise and structure in my life - it wasn't the meds, it was me!! OH DUH!!
This was right after finishing school and passing my boards... before I applied for my license. The crash was awful and idiot that I am, I bought into his laziness and thought indeed it was all my fault!
He then turned out to be totally short-sighted as well as a potential REAL threat to my getting my license, I can't call him for anything! In fact, I should probably be looking to switch pdocs. His letter made me out to be an insane, suicidal puddle, 'saved' by his "med regimen" and basically threatened the return of my suicidal ideation should they tamper with it. His timeline was off, he wrote a 'version' of events I had already checked with a Health Professional about as not having to reveal on my evaluation and his version is TOTALLY skewed to boot.
If I were to read his letter, I certainly wouldn't give me a license and I was advised to not submit it due to its inflammatory nature, as well as the inconsistencies. He totally lost sight of what I needed and became enraged and defensive about having 'his' judgement challenged and his letter was basically a justification at my expense
I had never heard of klonopin exacerbating depression until recently. What is the xanax dose that is comparable to 1mg klonopin? Again, finding someone to prescribe it is impossible as PRN is actually hoping to take the klonopin from me. They had mentioned contacting my pdoc about it, so of course, I'm living in fear they WILL contact him and he WILL go off on his tirade! I'll know when I show up for the hearing.
If the Board or PRN contacts him and he brings up all that stuff, it'll be the first thing out of their mouths and I probably will NOT be issued a license
you're right about my having tapered my dose. I should probably enjoy what small measure of help it may be able to give me right now. I think I've been punishing myself for having gotten into this mess. Additionally, I felt I should get used to being without them.
Maybe I'll go back. But there is that part of me that just wants out from all pharmaceuticals.. even though I highly doubt I could do it. I am so angry with these 'powers that be' having taken control of my life, I don't want to give them anything. As I said, I want off the grid!
TCA's are a no-no due to the weight gain and though lamotrigine looked promising at first, it doesn't sound like an great choice
If I bring up naltrexone, the idiots at PRN will assume I am admitting to being an opioid addict as they are completely blind to off-label use
My biggest problem is finding someone willing to prescribe anything other than what I take though the herbs you mention bear looking into
thanks for all your help. I can look into the xanax once I know the ratio. It's 'possible' though not necessarily likely, my primary may write me some prescriptons. but overall, she is very resistant to taking over my psych meds, even though I have always been the one to 'suggest' the drugs to my pdocs anyway and between this board and my own research, could probably do just as well, if not better, dealing with just a physician and not some ego maniac
keep me posted (on babblemail if necessary) on what you find out about the oxycontin nasal spray. Thanks for sending the post to your friend
you ARE truely a gift :)
namaste,
lilith
> Hi Liliths,
>
> You don't have to apologise for being depressed - that's why most of us are here! We've been in that dark place ourselves and we want to help you find the way out.
>
> I wonder if it's really a good idea to quit the hydrocodone? Is it worth feeling so bad just because of those b*startds at the PRN? I think you really need to be kind to yourself and take whatever you need to take to feel well. Could you call your pdoc and explain how bad you're feeling?
>
> Is there another benzo besides Klonopin you could use? I wonder if that may be making the depression worse - how about Xanax? Also, there's lamotrigine to consider - it was *very* effective for me in combo with a benzo for two years and I'd still be taking it if I hadn't been forced to quit benzos. And maybe a tricyclic such as clomipramine? Have you tried it? It's very effective for severe depression and anxiety along with obsessive thoughts.
>
> >did I read correctly that you weren't currently on any prescribed meds? I'd like to go off of everything and use herbal supplements, except it's simply too damn expensive!! My insurance won't cover them. Nice racket the pharmaceutical companies have with insurance companies. imagine if people could be covered for their supplements!
>
> Yes, I'm not taking any prescribed meds right now, but if I was feeling as bad as you describe I would go back on them. You could add something like Rhodiola to your current regime - have you ever tried it? It can be amazingly effective especially as an augmenter. There's also ashwaganda which can prevent or even reverse opiate tolerance. Did you ever try low dose naltrexone to boost your natural endorphins? I wonder if the PRN would be more approving and tolerant of that - most likely they would.
>
> Liliths, please think carefully about the hydrocodone. If it is an effective antidepressant for you then how about going back to your normal dose for now?
>
> Q
>
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:25:13
In reply to Re: There's no need to apologize! ;-) » Quintal, posted by liliths on December 28, 2006, at 7:22:34
Hi Liliths,
>I had never heard of klonopin exacerbating depression until recently. What is the xanax dose that is comparable to 1mg klonopin? Again, finding someone to prescribe it is impossible as PRN is actually hoping to take the klonopin from me.
I hadn't heard of Klonopin exacerbating depression either. From what I read it usually had an antidepressant effect and that's what I generally found myself except it sometimes made me more emotionally unstable. Xanax and Klonopin are equally potent so 1mg Klonopin ~ 1mg Xanax.
>If I bring up naltrexone, the idiots at PRN will assume I am admitting to being an opioid addict as they are completely blind to off-label use.
Probably. I hadn't thought of that. I guess if they had that kind of intelligence they wouldn't be penalising you for taking hydrocodone in the first place.
>I can look into the Xanax once I know the ratio. It's 'possible' though not necessarily likely, my primary may write me some prescriptons. but overall, she is very resistant to taking over my psych meds, even though I have always been the one to 'suggest' the drugs to my pdocs anyway and between this board and my own research, could probably do just as well, if not better, dealing with just a physician and not some ego maniac
Could you think of something to imply that you think Klonopin may be exacerbating your depression - maybe bring a few studies or something (assuming there are any - I'll have a look)?
Q
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 28, 2006, at 15:44:08
In reply to Re: Oxytocin Spray for Panic Attacks » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 14, 2006, at 19:18:23
For people interested in Oxytocin, I believe that Xyrem raises oxytocin levels. I can;t remember where I saw that, but i am sure that it did, I will look around. Not that it would be that helpful though b/c Xyrem is pretty hard to get at this point , I beleive.
Good Luck
JB
Posted by liliths on December 29, 2006, at 6:40:33
In reply to Re: UPDATE sorry, posted by teejay on December 27, 2006, at 19:36:31
hey TJ
just a quick apology for ALL those typos and bad writing
one of the little things that makes me feel human is to at least 'try' to be a good communicator
that was one sloppy post.. I must have been a mess when I wrote
no need to reply to this... I must be paranoid that you'll think me an idiot... sigh.. why is dealing with the outside world always fraught with so many minefields?
namaste,
lilith> Hey, don't be in such a rush to run away. There was so much in your posting that I could identify with!
>
> The bit about not living, just suffering, and the bit about being around people meant a lot to me.
>
> I know this doesn't help you out much, but just wanted you to know others are reading your 'ramblings' and don't want you to stop.
>
> TJ
Posted by liliths on January 3, 2007, at 13:57:34
In reply to Re: There's no need to apologize! ;-) » liliths, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:25:13
hi Q
I feel like I'm barely hanging on. I never went back up on my hydro... still just taking 1/2 dose though I decided to not taper off. But at this point, I don't think anything's going to help my depression. I've got 2 weeks till my 'trial'. Basically, having had my life turned upside down by "others" just felled me. I don't handle loss of control or being shamed very well. One of those cycles of being flushed down the toilet. I feel so bad, it's been very hard to write or contact anyone. Really have to push myself to get anything done
but that said, I have a question for you :)
I'm trying to figure out which kratom powder to try... bali? thai? 15x?
there are just so many varieties out there
if I may ask... what do you use? and how much at one time?
thanks for the help and sorry for the whining
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths,
>
> >I had never heard of klonopin exacerbating depression until recently. What is the xanax dose that is comparable to 1mg klonopin? Again, finding someone to prescribe it is impossible as PRN is actually hoping to take the klonopin from me.
>
> I hadn't heard of Klonopin exacerbating depression either. From what I read it usually had an antidepressant effect and that's what I generally found myself except it sometimes made me more emotionally unstable. Xanax and Klonopin are equally potent so 1mg Klonopin ~ 1mg Xanax.
>
> >If I bring up naltrexone, the idiots at PRN will assume I am admitting to being an opioid addict as they are completely blind to off-label use.
>
> Probably. I hadn't thought of that. I guess if they had that kind of intelligence they wouldn't be penalising you for taking hydrocodone in the first place.
>
> >I can look into the Xanax once I know the ratio. It's 'possible' though not necessarily likely, my primary may write me some prescriptons. but overall, she is very resistant to taking over my psych meds, even though I have always been the one to 'suggest' the drugs to my pdocs anyway and between this board and my own research, could probably do just as well, if not better, dealing with just a physician and not some ego maniac
>
> Could you think of something to imply that you think Klonopin may be exacerbating your depression - maybe bring a few studies or something (assuming there are any - I'll have a look)?
>
> Q
Posted by Quintal on January 4, 2007, at 1:45:38
In reply to question » Quintal, posted by liliths on January 3, 2007, at 13:57:34
Hi Liliths
Good to hear from you.
>I feel like I'm barely hanging on. I never went back up on my hydro... still just taking 1/2 dose though I decided to not taper off. But at this point,
I wonder if the higher dose would be more effective now your tolerance has decreased? It may put you in a better mood and give you more resilience for the trial?
> I don't think anything's going to help my depression.
That's part of the depressive thinking and I fall for it often myself. It's amazing how a high enough dose of opiate can transform negative thinking.
>I'm trying to figure out which kratom powder to try... bali? thai? 15x?
I don't really know what's best. I found the resins more potent and of higher quality.
>if I may ask... what do you use? and how much at one time?
Between 3-6g of standard powder is the recommended dose and I've found that to be about right for me, but it depends on your own preference.
>thanks for the help and sorry for the whining
There's no need to apologise for the way you feel. It's good to hear somebody finds me helpful ;-)
Q
Posted by liliths on January 5, 2007, at 12:14:34
In reply to Re: question, posted by Quintal on January 4, 2007, at 1:45:38
hi Q
when you say the resin, do you mean the pies? Is there any other kind of resin?
I'm having trouble with a tooth. Short version is that I took 2-darvocets along with 2-antibiotics and 2-ibruprofen - scripts from the oral surgeon but I have a long wait till the surgery itself and the damn thing keeps flaring up
btw, this insane dr. seems to think darvoset is for "extreme" pain - hell, the handout it comes with refers to it as used for "mild to moderate" - definitely need to have a talk with him about that but figure I'll wait till it's closer to the surgery. I am EXTREMELY sensitive to pain - particularly oral - dentistry is actually a traumatizing experience for me
anyway, I notice my ability to focus is better though I still can't leave the house or do anything productive
so, on the one hand, you're probably right about my taking my full dose of hydro. But on the other, I'm still not functioning and that was what I was trying to say about my depression.
since it's come down on me from external conditions I have no control over, I'm inclined to want to just slip away.
yes, the silly little darvoset allowed me to post to some threads on babble but it didn't help me take a shower, get to the gym, clean the house or look for work
it's almost time for my afternoon meds.. my 7.5 hydro lurks there LOL though usually, if I haven't gotten out of the house by this hour, the day is shot. I may try to at least take a shower but beyond that, the day looks fairly bleak
and I am getting so sick of feeling like this! I am so lethargic... chronically fatigued despite my ADD meds. I have absolutely no energy for anything and I know it's depression, plain and simple
I don't think they make a pill for this. I read ALL these posts... everyone hurts... and I've tried so many meds myself that I've begun to believe it just doesn't work for me
I am considering tapering off the buspar and the wellbutrin.. hard to say whether I will
I just want to crawl under a rock
yeah, I know I shouldn't keep apologizing but I can't help it... you'd be better off not having to read my drivel
I promise to go away after I find out about the resin ok?
thanks, as always, for your help and your patience
namaste,
lilith> Hi Liliths
>
> Good to hear from you.
>
> >I feel like I'm barely hanging on. I never went back up on my hydro... still just taking 1/2 dose though I decided to not taper off. But at this point,
>
> I wonder if the higher dose would be more effective now your tolerance has decreased? It may put you in a better mood and give you more resilience for the trial?
>
> > I don't think anything's going to help my depression.
>
> That's part of the depressive thinking and I fall for it often myself. It's amazing how a high enough dose of opiate can transform negative thinking.
>
> >I'm trying to figure out which kratom powder to try... bali? thai? 15x?
>
> I don't really know what's best. I found the resins more potent and of higher quality.
>
> >if I may ask... what do you use? and how much at one time?
>
> Between 3-6g of standard powder is the recommended dose and I've found that to be about right for me, but it depends on your own preference.
>
> >thanks for the help and sorry for the whining
>
> There's no need to apologise for the way you feel. It's good to hear somebody finds me helpful ;-)
>
> Q
Posted by Quintal on January 5, 2007, at 15:17:35
In reply to Re: question » Quintal, posted by liliths on January 5, 2007, at 12:14:34
Hi Liliths,
>when you say the resin, do you mean the pies? Is there any other kind of resin?
That depends where you order it from. You can buy Kratom resin here and there are some recipes: http://www.iamshaman.com/resins/kratom.htm
>I'm having trouble with a tooth. Short version is that I took 2-darvocets along with 2-antibiotics and 2-ibruprofen - scripts from the oral surgeon but I have a long wait till the surgery itself and the damn thing keeps flaring up
Antibiotics and inflammation can exacerbate depression, as can pain as I'm sure you know. You'll probably begin to feel better when the tooth is healed.
>yes, the silly little darvoset allowed me to post to some threads on babble but it didn't help me take a shower, get to the gym, clean the house or look for work
Maybe it's best to concentrate on keeping yourself well for now rather than looking for work until you know the result of the hearing?
>and I am getting so sick of feeling like this! I am so lethargic... chronically fatigued despite my ADD meds. I have absolutely no energy for anything and I know it's depression, plain and simple
I wonder if you're developing tolerance to the stims? Maybe a drug holiday would be beneficial if only the hearing wasn't coming up?
>I am considering tapering off the buspar and the wellbutrin.. hard to say whether I will
Maybe wait until after the hearing? If you feel they're doing nothing for you then maybe it is time to think about a change? Could you see another pdoc if this one is reluctant to change your meds?
Take care
Q
Posted by liliths on January 10, 2007, at 15:01:40
In reply to Re: question » liliths, posted by Quintal on January 5, 2007, at 15:17:35
hi Q
just want to give you a big THANK YOU for all your help :)
with my hearing only one week away, I'm a total mess and of course, will have to find a new pdoc after it's all over with.. in addition to the fact that I don't yet know just had bad it's all going to be. That's something I REALLY can't handle even thinking about.
At least I'm pretty sure my primary will write my scripts in the interim.
Someone gave me a dilaudid yesterday as my shoulder's been pretty bad. I've never taken it before and was surprised (though I shouldn't have been) by the fact that all it did was alleviate my depression... no 'high' or euphoria... helped my shoulder and allowed me to not mind living for a few hours... sigh
I'll probably post a thread after the hearing (of course, I intend to wear the silly "liquid trust" LOL)
thanks again for everything
hope you are doing well :)
namaste,
lilith
> Hi Liliths,
>
> >when you say the resin, do you mean the pies? Is there any other kind of resin?
>
> That depends where you order it from. You can buy Kratom resin here and there are some recipes: http://www.iamshaman.com/resins/kratom.htm
>
> >I'm having trouble with a tooth. Short version is that I took 2-darvocets along with 2-antibiotics and 2-ibruprofen - scripts from the oral surgeon but I have a long wait till the surgery itself and the damn thing keeps flaring up
>
> Antibiotics and inflammation can exacerbate depression, as can pain as I'm sure you know. You'll probably begin to feel better when the tooth is healed.
>
> >yes, the silly little darvoset allowed me to post to some threads on babble but it didn't help me take a shower, get to the gym, clean the house or look for work
>
> Maybe it's best to concentrate on keeping yourself well for now rather than looking for work until you know the result of the hearing?
>
> >and I am getting so sick of feeling like this! I am so lethargic... chronically fatigued despite my ADD meds. I have absolutely no energy for anything and I know it's depression, plain and simple
>
> I wonder if you're developing tolerance to the stims? Maybe a drug holiday would be beneficial if only the hearing wasn't coming up?
>
> >I am considering tapering off the buspar and the wellbutrin.. hard to say whether I will
>
> Maybe wait until after the hearing? If you feel they're doing nothing for you then maybe it is time to think about a change? Could you see another pdoc if this one is reluctant to change your meds?
>
> Take care
> Q
Posted by Quintal on January 11, 2007, at 10:42:11
In reply to Re: question » Quintal, posted by liliths on January 10, 2007, at 15:01:40
Hi Liliths,
>with my hearing only one week away, I'm a total mess and of course, will have to find a new pdoc after it's all over with.. in addition to the fact that I don't yet know just had bad it's all going to be. That's something I REALLY can't handle even thinking about.
Maybe best not to think about it too much? It may be better than you expect. Have you made a list of possible pdocs or sought any advice about the best pdocs in your area?
>At least I'm pretty sure my primary will write my scripts in the interim.
Well at least you have that reassurance. Will s/he be willing to change meds?
>Someone gave me a dilaudid yesterday as my shoulder's been pretty bad. I've never taken it before and was surprised (though I shouldn't have been) by the fact that all it did was alleviate my depression... no 'high' or euphoria... helped my shoulder and allowed me to not mind living for a few hours... sigh
What's a dilaudid? Some kind of opiate? I know the feeling. I just got a new batch of codeine and it made me feel all warm and full of life again.
>I'll probably post a thread after the hearing (of course, I intend to wear the silly "liquid trust" LOL)
Yes, you'd probably get more helpful ideas with a broader input. My fingers are crossed for you!
>thanks again for everything
It's a pleasure :-)
Q
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.