![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 49er on December 13, 2008, at 8:35:31
Hi,
In spite of tapering very slowly from Remeron, which has been used strictly as a sleep med, I have developed horrible rebound insomnia.
The only remedy that works for me is Benadryl. But due to it being slightly ototoxic and causing pulsating tinnitus, obviously, I don't want to take it except for emergencies. I have a hearing loss from Remeron and tinnitus from the other psych meds I have used so I seem to be susceptible to anything that is ototoxic.
Once I got around 3mg of Remeron, I started not being able to sleep unless I took Benadryl. I would fall asleep just fine but not be able to get back to sleep once I woke up.
I have tried melatonin which was a disaster as it caused severe depression. I also tried valerian root and sleep revitalizing formula, which contains valerian root.
If anyone has suggestions, I would great appreciate it as I am desperate. Frankly, I feel like these meds are holding me hostage.
As an FYI, I don't want to take meds.
Thanks.
49er
Posted by nolvas on December 13, 2008, at 9:45:41
In reply to Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by 49er on December 13, 2008, at 8:35:31
I've just been enrolled in to the horrible insomnia club as well :(
I tried Nytol which contains the antihistamine diphenhydramine, this numbed my tongue made me feel like a very ill zombie and I still didn't sleep.
Alcohol works to get you to sleep but DON'T use it! There's potential for addiction and you end up waking up in the middle of the night when it wears off.
Californian Poppy tinture by Viridian has worked for me to get me to sleep. Also you have to stop worrying or at least work on this to help you sleep.
I'm have ZMA and L-Tryptophan which are supposed to be very good at helping with sleep problems. Will be trying them soon.
Posted by Sigismund on December 13, 2008, at 13:16:18
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by nolvas on December 13, 2008, at 9:45:41
Skullcap and zizyphus are the ones I like.
You need to take fairly high doses.
If you have access to high dose TCM preparations containing zizyphus, they are just as good.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 13, 2008, at 14:01:04
In reply to Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by 49er on December 13, 2008, at 8:35:31
I have bipolar/schizophrenia, and people with these disorders have a terrible time sleeping. I've also used Benadryl with good results, but I don't think it's wise to take it long-term because of it possibly causing depressive symptoms the following day and also because over time, the antihistamine might lose its effectiveness for helping you sleep. Melatonin in very small doses might help. I only take 1/4 of a 3mg tablet because any more than this also causes me to have depressive symptoms the following day. In addition to the melatonin, I take other supplements to help me sleep.
1/4 of a 3mg melatonin tablet
500-750mg Niacin sustained release
400IU of NATURAL vitamin E
50mg P5P (form of B6)
300mg calcium
500mg vitamin C
200IU seleniumI also take a broad spectrum amino acid supplement at bedtime, and this helps too. Country Life has a good complete amino acid supplement. You have to be careful with amino acids because they can affect how you feel the following day. If you try them, start on the low side, maybe 2-3 capsules. I take 3 at bedtime. They may or may not help you.
This is the only regimen that has helped me sleep at night, and I have tried a lot of different combinations of supplements. Individual amino acids like taurine and gaba didn't do much for my sleep. I could recommend the supplement 5htp or perhaps ask your doctor for an antidepressant that induces sleep by working on serotonin. Again, that may or may not help you. It really depends on your brain chemistry. Personally, I don't take any sleep meds. That's an option too if you're really having a hard time falling asleep and staying asleep. The supplement regimen above does the trick for me. Maybe it would help you too. There is a solution out there for you somewhere. I'm a schizophrenic, and if I can find a way to sleep peacefully at night, then I really believe you can find something too.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 13, 2008, at 14:11:34
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by Lao Tzu on December 13, 2008, at 14:01:04
Just to let you know in addition to the supplements I mentioned for sleep, I'm also on a high dose of Risperdal (antipsychotic), which helps with sleep as well. With schizophrenics, they seem to do better with vitamin E and vitamin C, two of the vitamins I take for sleep because of their antioxidant characteristics. In addition, B6 is helpful for sleep, and Niacin helps too. Also, just a very small amount of melatonin is necessary for me. You don't need much of it. It's a hormone, and hormones are powerful in very small doses. 3mg of melatonin is way too much for most people. I just cut a 3mg pill into 4 pieces, and I only take one piece at bedtime with the other supplements. It definitely helps, and because it is such a low dose, I don't get any residual depressive symptoms the following day. Dosage is very important when you're talking about melatonin. Less is just as effective with less chance of depressive symptoms the following day.
Posted by 49er on December 31, 2008, at 5:05:45
In reply to Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by 49er on December 13, 2008, at 8:35:31
I apologize profusely for not responding earlier.
Thank you all so much for responding. My insomnia had worsened to the point where i couldn't sort out information very well.
But now at least, thanks to inisitol, I am sleeping at least every other day. Still going for two days in a row <weak smile>. Anyway, I will reread the posts and add what I think might be the most feasible.
Posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 11:48:45
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by 49er on December 31, 2008, at 5:05:45
I, too, am in Remeron insomnia HELL. Unfortunately, nothing I take helps and I've tried every supplement on the market. I've been unable to sleep for 12 weeks at one point and forced myself back on a low dose of Remeron (3.75mg) just to get some sleep. The problem is, I was off the stuff for six months and now it only works occasionally and when it does, it doesn't work well...
Anyone very tried those binaural beat cd's for insomnia?! I've heard good things, so maybe that will help?
Posted by 49er on January 19, 2009, at 12:29:01
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 11:48:45
Time Lord,
I am so sorry you are going through this.
I finally found that pediatric Benadryl worked and as a result, I had my best stretch of sleep in about two months. For some reason, regular Benadryl was too activating.
I am not too thrilled with taking it and as a result, am trying a few alternatives since I have a 4 day weekend. But so far, nothing has worked.
Thought I would pass that on.
49er
Posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 14:42:16
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by 49er on January 19, 2009, at 12:29:01
49er,
I might have missed this, but are you still on the Remeron?
I took that stuff for ten years and tried to go back on - but it didn't work. The insomnia and nausea/vomiting are the worst... but the insomnia is killer.
I'll try the pediatric Benadryl, as regular Benadryl makes me horribly anxious. I'm almost willing to try using my Klonopin again... :(
Posted by 49er on January 19, 2009, at 19:13:25
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 14:42:16
> 49er,
>
> I might have missed this, but are you still on the Remeron?
>
> I took that stuff for ten years and tried to go back on - but it didn't work. The insomnia and nausea/vomiting are the worst... but the insomnia is killer.
>
> I'll try the pediatric Benadryl, as regular Benadryl makes me horribly anxious. I'm almost willing to try using my Klonopin again... :(
>
>Hi,
I finally ditched the Remeron at slightly under 2mg. I forgot to take it one day along with my Doxepin and actually slept which was a shock. I had one of my best days cognitively in a long time. When I realized what had happened, I decided to drop the Remeron since I felt I was low enough to outright drop it.
I hope you have the same luck as I did with the pediatric benadryl. It sounds like you are going through h-ll with the Remeron.
By the way, I got the liquid form, so I could take as little as possible.
49er
Posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 21:25:40
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions? » TimeLord, posted by 49er on January 19, 2009, at 19:13:25
> > 49er,
> >
> > I might have missed this, but are you still on the Remeron?
> >
> > I took that stuff for ten years and tried to go back on - but it didn't work. The insomnia and nausea/vomiting are the worst... but the insomnia is killer.
> >
> > I'll try the pediatric Benadryl, as regular Benadryl makes me horribly anxious. I'm almost willing to try using my Klonopin again... :(
> >
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> I finally ditched the Remeron at slightly under 2mg. I forgot to take it one day along with my Doxepin and actually slept which was a shock. I had one of my best days cognitively in a long time. When I realized what had happened, I decided to drop the Remeron since I felt I was low enough to outright drop it.
>
> I hope you have the same luck as I did with the pediatric benadryl. It sounds like you are going through h-ll with the Remeron.
>
> By the way, I got the liquid form, so I could take as little as possible.
>
> 49er
>
>Well, I hope it works. Withdrawing from both the Klonopin and Remeron has been a nightmare and yet I still work and get through my day. The sleep though... that's where I am losing it.
I'll let you know how the liquid Benadryl works! :)
Posted by TimeLord on January 20, 2009, at 10:54:55
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by TimeLord on January 19, 2009, at 21:25:40
Well, I took a small bit of Benadryl, but I might go for the full child dose, as it didn't work for me. Granted, I wasn't expecting miracles... :)
Any other thoughts on how to stop this insomnia? Will it ever end?!
Posted by 49er on January 20, 2009, at 17:14:57
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by TimeLord on January 20, 2009, at 10:54:55
> Well, I took a small bit of Benadryl, but I might go for the full child dose, as it didn't work for me. Granted, I wasn't expecting miracles... :)
>
> Any other thoughts on how to stop this insomnia? Will it ever end?!Time Lord,
I am so sorry.
Until this recent good stretch, I only slept two nights in a row once since November. So I definitely feel your pain.
I am trying "Deep Sleep" as an alternative because I have some concerns about staying on Benadryl. It worked the 2nd night so it will be interesting to see if it works the night after I previously slept.
It is a combination of various herbs and that might be the trick. Here is a link to it on vitacost.
As an FYI, I took the pill form. This is in tincture form.
All I can say is keep trying remedies and don't give up.
The local Whole Foods place told me that I can bring opened vitamin/supplements packages back for refunds if they don't work. Is there one in your area that might do this?
Please hang in there.
49er
Posted by TimeLord on January 20, 2009, at 18:38:11
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions? » TimeLord, posted by 49er on January 20, 2009, at 17:14:57
Hey 49er,
I'll order some of the softgels and give them a shot. I'm not yet at the point of desperation, but I'm getting close. I have NEVER suffered from Insomnia prior to this stupid withdrawal and I can tell you now that I'm amazed that I'm functional. However, I am emotionally void - flat.
I just need to get a few weeks of sleep. lol
Posted by 49er on January 21, 2009, at 4:26:10
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by TimeLord on January 20, 2009, at 18:38:11
> Hey 49er,
>
> I'll order some of the softgels and give them a shot. I'm not yet at the point of desperation, but I'm getting close. I have NEVER suffered from Insomnia prior to this stupid withdrawal and I can tell you now that I'm amazed that I'm functional. However, I am emotionally void - flat.
>
> I just need to get a few weeks of sleep. lol
>
>
>Time Lord,
I definitely understand.
As an FYI, the deep sleep product worked two days in a row so I am optimistic I have found the right product. Of course, I will be more convinced when I get a real streak going.
Good luck to you.
49er
Posted by TimeLord on January 21, 2009, at 18:57:14
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions? » TimeLord, posted by 49er on January 21, 2009, at 4:26:10
I ordered it online today and will have it by the end of the week. I bought some stuff at vitamine shoppe locally - some kind of "reviatlzaing sleep formaula". I'l try that, too. :)
Something has to work.
Posted by TimeLord on January 26, 2009, at 14:54:27
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions? » TimeLord, posted by 49er on January 21, 2009, at 4:26:10
So is it still working for you 49er?
Posted by 49er on January 26, 2009, at 17:15:51
In reply to Re: Horrific insomnia/Remedy Suggestions?, posted by TimeLord on January 26, 2009, at 14:54:27
> So is it still working for you 49er?
Hi Time Lord,
So far, it has worked 66% of the time. It will work 2 days and then for some reason, not work the 3rd day.
I think there may have been other reasons such as going to bed too late and drinking too much coffee.
So when the next 3rd day comes up, I am going to make sure I keep my caffeine low and go to bed on time so I can see what is going on.
If it fails, I guess I will have to take pediatric benadryl on the third day, which I really don't want to take. It increases my tinnitus and dries out my eyes. But I need my sleep.
How are you doing?
49er
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.