![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 0:29:52
I am so scared and confused spiritually. As someone with a raging anxiety disorder, my relationship with the everything and everyone tends to be based on fear already. So, I don't know if I will ever adequately be able to feel at ease spiritually anyway. At any rate, I have been reading the King James Bible lately, and...it is such a frightening book to me. I mean, my interpretation of it is essentially an evangelical one, a literal one. But in that interpretation...I don't see how anything but war, racism, sexism, and environmental destruction can result from it. Is this what our role on Earth is supposed to be? I am horrified of going to hell, and I want to do what is right. If the laws written in the Bible are what God wants for us, then I guess that is the way it has to be. Yet, I feel completely confused by the message I get from reading it. There is a strong message of non-tolerance in it, in my interpretation. It's as if in having blind faith...I gave up my ability to reason, to see people clearly, to accept them for who they are, to have compassion toward their experience of the world. It is very confusing to me. Does anyone else here have that experience? And how have you resolved it, if you have? Thanks and God bless.
Chris
Posted by shadows721 on June 21, 2004, at 13:30:54
In reply to I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 0:29:52
I feel the same as you. I don't feel much peace from certain books of the Bible. They are really frightening to me. I was raised Baptist and rarely go to church as an adult.
Thanks for your honesty.
Posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 14:55:34
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by shadows721 on June 21, 2004, at 13:30:54
> I feel the same as you. I don't feel much peace from certain books of the Bible. They are really frightening to me. I was raised Baptist and rarely go to church as an adult.
>
> Thanks for your honesty.Shadows:
How have you resolved this issue, or have you resolved it, or tried to resolve it in any way? I have no attended to church in many years, but I am going to seek counseling with a Christian MFCC and try church again. It's so hard for me because my anxiety disorder puts me in such a place of non-assertiveness...it's as if when I admit my sinfulness I become even less assertive and more lost in low self-esteem. I need some serious counseling on this. My life is going nowhere as it is...I fear death constantly...I am avoiding life due to my fear of death...I receive solace knowing that Christ can save my soul, but I don't know what my role on Earth is then. I don't know.
I am just very tired and filled with fear and nothing seems to get better in my life no matter what I do.
Posted by rayww on June 21, 2004, at 16:35:26
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 14:55:34
God so loved the world, that He sent His only Begotten Son that whoso believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
If God loves the world, he more than loves us. That's why He gave us the scriptures. He wants us to live happily and the only way we can is to obey the law that governs Heaven itself. That law is explained in the Bible, but you have to read it in the right spirit to grasp it.
Try this experiment for me if you would. Before you pick up your Bible to read, kneel in prayer and even vocally, ask God to teach you what he wants you to learn today. God teaches us the truths of the spirit by bits and pieces, mingled with the lessons we learn in life, if we seek Him. Line upon line, precept upon precept will be revealed to us as we are ready to receive. Don't fear the Bible. Look to God and love/live.
Seek solitude, pray vocally, then open your Bible and read until by the right spirit you learn something of God. The right spirit bears fruit, in other words, it enlarges your soul, and makes you feel good, like a natural high. Before you begin, know this, that absolutely you are not going to go to Hell. You can only go to Hell if you have had the whole law, and then knowingly betrayed the Lord. Religions that teach anything less than a merciful God are teaching falsely. A merciful God will give us every opportunity to learn His law. He does not give up on us easily. You can only know the law by the spirit as it testifies of the word. The world is very confused on this issue, but truth is to be found on this if you search for it. That I absolutely know.
Know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Where is fear in freedom?
Posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 16:55:43
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by rayww on June 21, 2004, at 16:35:26
> God so loved the world, that He sent His only Begotten Son that whoso believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
>
> If God loves the world, he more than loves us. That's why He gave us the scriptures. He wants us to live happily and the only way we can is to obey the law that governs Heaven itself. That law is explained in the Bible, but you have to read it in the right spirit to grasp it.
>
> Try this experiment for me if you would. Before you pick up your Bible to read, kneel in prayer and even vocally, ask God to teach you what he wants you to learn today. God teaches us the truths of the spirit by bits and pieces, mingled with the lessons we learn in life, if we seek Him. Line upon line, precept upon precept will be revealed to us as we are ready to receive. Don't fear the Bible. Look to God and love/live.
>
> Seek solitude, pray vocally, then open your Bible and read until by the right spirit you learn something of God. The right spirit bears fruit, in other words, it enlarges your soul, and makes you feel good, like a natural high. Before you begin, know this, that absolutely you are not going to go to Hell. You can only go to Hell if you have had the whole law, and then knowingly betrayed the Lord. Religions that teach anything less than a merciful God are teaching falsely. A merciful God will give us every opportunity to learn His law. He does not give up on us easily. You can only know the law by the spirit as it testifies of the word. The world is very confused on this issue, but truth is to be found on this if you search for it. That I absolutely know.
>
> Know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Where is fear in freedom?Ray: Thank you so much. Your words provide me with some comfort. I have had a horrible sleepless kind of week, worrying about my soul and not knowing if I should just go back on medication or seek better spiritual understanding or both. But what does this statement mean: "You can only go to Hell if you have had the whole law, and then knowingly betrayed the Lord." How do I know if I have betrayed the Lord, or if I knew the whole law? I know I have not lived as the Bible says I should. I have tried praying all week, but feel so scared, so fearful, so worried. I will try as you say, your experiment. I just...how do I know if my anxiety/fear is from betraying the Lord or the Devil or physiology or what? I am so confused and hurt.
Posted by shadows721 on June 21, 2004, at 19:20:03
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 14:55:34
Chris,
I haven't resolved this issue. I do believe it is my past unresolved abuse issues that are playing apart in this self torment. I pray that God forgives me of my weaknesses. I am always fearing severe punishment by God. It's got to be my upbringing that is stearing this. My religion as a child did not give me peace. It raised me into to fearing God. Oh, of course, there is a scripture about the goodness in that. It doesn't feel good at all.
I admire your determination to overcome your fears.
Posted by rayww on June 21, 2004, at 20:47:58
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually Ray, posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 16:55:43
You have asked a question that I probably can't answer without offending another belief, but I will tell you some of what I believe on it. I don't know why you have such fear, or guilt, or what is in your past, but we believe the purpose of the atonement is to heal us from all of those things-our sin, our pain, guilt, fear, and hurts. But there is a procedure. First you must have faith to believe, then begin to raise your standards through repentance, and when you are ready, comes baptism. (faith, repentance, baptism) Baptism in our faith is to symbolize our willingness to completely reform our lives to the teachings of Jesus Christ, and with that in turn comes complete forgiveness here and now. The moment we come up out of the waters of baptism we are considered brand new and get to have a fresh start. The only free gift in this is the resurrection, all else comes with a price. For instance, you cannot continue in a corrupt life style and expect to have no fear. The mantle of peace comes as we grow in the gospel, beginning in the Bible. The important thing for you right now is to continue doing exactly what you are doing. God will not leave your prayers unanswered. You may have to keep at it awhile, but I know he will answer you if you truly desire. Scriptues are full of accounts of people who prayed all day and all night until they received a remission of their sins and knew their standing with God. I encourage you to keep searching until you are satisfied. Never ever give up.
The spirit that tells us we should pray is the one you should listen to. The spirit that whispers that we don't need to pray is the false one. It is really hard at first to discern, but it comes easier as we obey. http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=spirit+that+teacheth+to+pray&scripturesearch_button=Search
Posted by rayww on June 21, 2004, at 20:56:04
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by shadows721 on June 21, 2004, at 19:20:03
http://scriptures.lds.org/enos/1/3-8#3
this is a true story of a person who struggled with sin, went to God in prayer and stayed with it until he had the assurance he needed that he was in good standing with the Lord. I love this story. It gives me hope, and increases my faith. He is an example for all who desire to follow. I have had an Enos-type experience in my own life.
Posted by Chris O on June 22, 2004, at 0:51:18
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by rayww on June 21, 2004, at 20:56:04
> http://scriptures.lds.org/enos/1/3-8#3
>
> this is a true story of a person who struggled with sin, went to God in prayer and stayed with it until he had the assurance he needed that he was in good standing with the Lord. I love this story. It gives me hope, and increases my faith. He is an example for all who desire to follow. I have had an Enos-type experience in my own life.Ray:
Again, thanks for your postings. I read the story, and looked around at the Mormon site from which it came. I am not too familiar with Mormonism, so that was enlightening. I can see where your more hopeful view of the Bible comes from after looking around on the site--the Mormon interpretation of the Bible is definitely more "forgiving" than the one I get from reading the King James Bible on my own. I just have the hardest time functioning due to my anxiety disorder, am always beating myself up, yet at the same time, I know I am hurting people and myself just due to my low self-esteem. Despite my low self-esteem, I know I am filled with sin and have broken my share of commandments and hopefully, with work and prayer, I set myself spiritually aright.
Thanks again,
Chris
Posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 0:58:51
In reply to I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 0:29:52
Chris O you beatuifl wonderful person, I feel your fear, It's o.k. to be afrid, most of us are. It's just because we don't fully understand what God is really about.
I'm going to give you some advice, but as I'm going through problems you don't have to take it (blind leading the blind and all that) I think you should put down your religios book, you don't need someone speaking from a God of fear making you more afrid. It's just someones point of view, it's not the truth. As far as I can see God is nothing but pure love. He is with you all the time. Forget the religion, just spend a few hours in silence with God, learn how to meditate properly.
Forget the religion, you don't need someone telling you what they think God is. I truly believe God is nothing but pure love and kindness. No matter what you feel you might have done wrong God will still take you in his arms like a new born child (like he really sees you). You are an amazing living creature, don't allow a man made idea to corrupt you into thinking otherwise. You can do anything you want my friend. Don't let "fear" (the true satan) rule your life.
lots of love xxx
Posted by Chris O on June 22, 2004, at 1:28:39
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 0:58:51
Impermanence:
Thanks a lot; I certainly feel the love from you. Much appreciation. I just had a kind of spiritual crisis/realization last week...a realization of my own mortality and my own lack of control of anything in this world/universe. And, it is just making me want to get my life and world in order. I have been living a kind empty, existential life, dominated by anxiety and fear and it's getting me nowhere. I turned away from Christianity early and have never really given it a chance due to the "man-made" thing. To be honest, I've never really explored the Bible in detail, so this is a first time for me. I am trying to see the message of Christ in the Bible as a message of love and not of fear. I believe it is. At any rate, my non-spiritual life has not gotten me anywhere. I have tried yoga, meditation, and tai chi in the past. They were all very physical for me; just like working out. Nice, but not spiritual. Not life-purpose-giving. As far as "doing anything", that does get tricky, doesn't it? Because even agnostics or athetiest have a sense of morality here. Murder, rape, robbery--despite the social circumstances behind them--how to deal with that? Is it not better to cultivate a heart of forgiveness (like Christ) than to take such actions, despite the fact that they might have been motivated by racism, poverty, etc.? Anyway, I feel your love, Impermanence, and hope whatever problems you are experiencing get better.
Chris
Posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 1:29:46
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 0:58:51
By the way chris when I say forget religion I don't really mean that, religion is very important, I just mean don't take it to heart every word you read, It's just a point of view. I ment to give you the address of a wonderful site (religious lol) but I think you might find great comfort in the wisdom. Mainly Hindu and Buddhist but their just lables, it's wisdom all the same. http://www.carnatic.com/karmasaya/ (thats not the main page but I thought this one might be of use to you). Look to the left of the screen, you will find a kind answer to most questions we have to deal with.
Lots of love xxx
Posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 1:42:50
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually » Impermanence, posted by Chris O on June 22, 2004, at 1:28:39
Just read you other post, you seem like a kind caring chap. you don't have to take the weight of the world on your shoulders. Your not the one out there hurting people. As far as I can see you're the type of person we need more of in this cruel selfish and unforgiving world we live in. Don't be so hard on yourself. We need you out there, people suffering poverty and sickness need you. You could be a very valuable asset to the world once you get yourself better. Even if you touched one life woulden't that make it all worth while. I'll tell you this much, you touched me today. Your sincerity and pain touched my heart. Trust in yourself my frind. Trust that God cars so much about you.
P.s. you are not alone in your fear, I feel it to, it sucks I know. But we'll get true this man. We really will.
Lots of love xxx
Posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 1:53:31
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually » Chris O, posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 1:42:50
I ment to say look to the right of the screen (dumbass lol), please forgive my stupid coordination and spelling mistakes.
Posted by rayww on June 22, 2004, at 11:52:21
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually » rayww, posted by Chris O on June 22, 2004, at 0:51:18
Thankyou for your kindness and response.
We use the King James version as our Bible. There are many Bible translations in the world to choose from, and I suppose none have been translated 100% correctly. There were no perfect scribes, nor perfect historians, but what we have preserved miraculously in the Bible is so priceless just the same.The King James doesn't include the apocrapha (early writings considered part of other Bibles) The apocrapha is somewhat true, but has a lot of changes as is evidenced by comparing it to earlier copies of the same books that are being discovered.
In my opinion you can trust the King James version of the Bible, but also in my opinion, try to avoid the modern transformations. Much meaning is lost when you change the original text.
I encourage you to keep reading the Bible. Begin with some of the shorter books, and read each like it was a separate book, as that is how they were written. Start with James. He was the brother of Jesus. As you read, understand how well James knew the gospel and Jesus. Then read Timothy and other letters written by Paul to the various groups. Once you have read each as its own book you will realize they are one message. Each is a witness of the divinity of Jesus Christ. The Bible is a collection of witnesses. Each book teaches the same truth. Repetition is the best teacher, and so it goes.
How we relate to the Bible is determined by which lens we choose to read it through. The perfect lens would be the lens of faith in Jesus Christ. Another perfect lens is the lens of love. But if you read it through the lens of fear and guilt, you may only see that.
I like to think of a lens because I wear glasses and I know that if I have the right lens in my glass I can see more clearly. Symbolically speaking if you view life through different lenses you have a different focus. Your perspective will change your perception of life. A good example of this is the sexual lens. Some people view the world and all people through a sensual lens. A phobia will also distort your picture of life. So, just change the lens. Isn't that a more simple way of looking at it?
In so doing you will suddenly discover you are on the right path after all. That's repentance. Taking something out of your head and replacing it with something truer. Change a focus and you change a life. Focus on Christ. He is the only true focal point that can be 100% trusted. Trust in God, and have no fear to follow him.
Posted by Chris O on June 22, 2004, at 15:07:54
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 1:53:31
> I ment to say look to the right of the screen (dumbass lol), please forgive my stupid coordination and spelling mistakes.
Appreciate the love and feedback, man. God bless.
Posted by Chris O on June 22, 2004, at 15:16:03
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually » Chris O, posted by rayww on June 22, 2004, at 11:52:21
Ray:
Thanks again. This might be my last posting here for a while; just a flurry of guilty, shameful feelings hitting me when I read the Bible. I'm seeking out counseling...trying to set my life in order...I don't know. I am off meds; have taken them in the past; if it weren't for my girlfriend, I
probably wouldn't be taking too good care of myself.
Perhaps a lot of my guilt comes from this disorder...because that is how I feel all the time anyway...anxious, fearful...but I had not accepted Christ into my heart until last week...but I still feel horrible. I just don't know what I am supposed to do with my life...take medication...not take medication...is my anxiety disorder what I experience for not following God....is it the Devil trying to trick me into not feeling forgiven...I just feel so empty inside...and when I contemplate eternal damnation...it drives me to the point of massive anxiety attack...I know most people think I am "good person", but I know in my heart that I am very sinful, that I constantly violate the 10 Commandments...and I just...I don't know where to go from here in my life. I barely hold down a job...my relationship with my family is horrible (though I'm working on that right now)...I just feel like God is angry at me. When I pray, depending on what I think about, I feel generally worse. I know I cannot resolve anything here, on these boards, but I appreciate your and Impertenance's feedback. I just hope I can lead a spiritually right life...and understand God's word without feeling so conflicted and twisted. Thanks.
Posted by rayww on June 22, 2004, at 16:47:16
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually » rayww, posted by Chris O on June 22, 2004, at 15:16:03
>>I just hope I can lead a spiritually right life...and understand God's word without feeling so conflicted and twisted. Thanks.
Then let that be your prayer. I hope the same for you.
Rayww
Posted by 64bowtie on June 25, 2004, at 12:47:27
In reply to I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 0:29:52
Chris O,
Please consider the strife and corruption you read in the Bible as allegorical for its time. We are in a different time now. What lessons can we learn from the allegory?
Do you have a goal of finding freedom in your life "in-the-now"? Can you measure any evidence of dysfuntion in your life? Can you live without feeling obligated to others? Can you survive without expectations; expectations that others are obligated to you? I think you can, and do.
As adults, we may feel obligations and expectations. However, are they as powerful and freeing as replacing obligations, which are one-way from us, with responsibility, which is two-way? Are they as powerful and freeing as replacing expectations, which are one-way toward us, with plans, goals, and personal contracts, which are all two-way?
Let me know what you think, and feel... please.
Rod
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2004, at 14:09:36
In reply to Re: I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Impermanence on June 22, 2004, at 1:53:31
> Religions that teach anything less than a merciful God are teaching falsely.
>
> raywwPlease remember that the idea here is support. Please don't put down the beliefs of others.
> I ment to say look to the right of the screen (dumb[*]ss lol)
>
> ImpermanenceAlso, sorry to be such a prude, but please don't use language that could offend others (which also applies when quoting someone else).
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Cass on July 7, 2004, at 16:33:47
In reply to I'm so scared, confused spiritually, posted by Chris O on June 21, 2004, at 0:29:52
It's impossible for me to believe that being religious requires us to be intolerant or bigoted.
Personally, I don't believe in a personal, all powerful God. I do believe that God is the spirit of goodness in all things and that God is the spirit of love. I think that God is a magnificent spiritual design of which we are a part unless we don't adhere to good ethical/moral values, such as treating others the way we would like to be treated, and even if we veer from the moral path, there is redemption.
I rely on my own experience of God rather than a particular scripture, although I am receptive to learning from all religious doctrines.
Have you ever read Milton? His analysis of the bible is skeptical and brave.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.