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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2003, at 14:29:31
In reply to Re: Larry, your take on CBT? » Squiggles, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2003, at 11:15:44
>
> > As for CBT, my view on that is that a person
> > must first be in a mental and emotional condition
> > where that kind of therapy is possible. After
> > all to be cognitively capable means to be
> > unperturbed psychologically - making this
> > a bit of a paradox.
>
> I don't even know how to answer you.....there is no paradox, except if you hold the belief that there must be one. Anyone can do it, barring acute psychosis or some such phenomenon.
>
> > And nutrition and life-style -- well they may
> > be the road to a successful life - the kind i
> > envy in some people - but that is a matter
> > of fate and circumstances in a person's life.
>
> Nutrition and life-style are not fate, they're choices.
>
> > There is not much we can do about grief, terror,
> > rape, war, etc. which leave victims in a
> > a bad condition.
>
> Those conditions are not immutable, and there is much that can be done. However, if you believe that nothing can be done, nothing can.
>
> > Nor, is there much we can
> > we do with people who inherit mental illness.
>
> That's exactly what all this nutrition talk is about, accomodating special biochemical needs associated with genetically determined characteristics.
>
> > So, it's complex.
>
> No, it's quite simple, really. Feed the need.
>
> Fatalistic or deterministic cognition, sometimes associated with what is called "black and white" thinking, is certainly an obstacle in applying CBT and other augmentative strategies, such as supplemented nutrition. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the alternative approaches, as you seem to suggest. The problem is the "stinking thinking".
>
Posted by mattdds on May 31, 2003, at 16:51:59
In reply to Re: Larry, your take on CBT? « Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2003, at 14:29:31
> > As for CBT, my view on that is that a person
> > must first be in a mental and emotional condition
> > where that kind of therapy is possible. After
> > all to be cognitively capable means to be
> > unperturbed psychologically - making this
> > a bit of a paradox.I am living proof that this is not necessarily true. If you had to be "unperturbed psychologically" for CBT to work, then by definition it would not be useful for anything, which is obviously not the case! Why use CBT in the first place if you're not psychologically perturbed? That's the whole point of it!
When I began CBT, it was after multiple medication failures, and I was experiencing so many physical symptoms that I almost dropped out of dental school. I fallaciously believed that I *couldn't* study anymore.
But I started using the behavioral techniques. I started putting the horse before the cart, where it rightly belongs. I got my ass out of bed even though I did not think I could walk or much less think or memorize complicated concepts in physiology or biochemistry. My non-depressed friends were having trouble while healthy!
But I kept moving my eyes across the paper, even though I was completely sure I was not learning a dang thing! Just goes to show how distorted your thinking becomes during depression.
Guess what? I actually wound up having the best semesters in dental school - at least academically. I also began to see improvements in my mood.
The same thing applies to CBT. Often doing what you know needs to be done when you least want to do it is what initiates the process of healing. I could not think my way out of this depression, I was in it way too deep. I had to have the catalyst to begin the reacion, which in my case was "acting against my feelings", Kinda like your "couch days". I related so well to this.
If you can't change your thinking right away, at least you can change your behavior, even though it feels like this is impossible to do. This is the catalyst that starts to swing the reaction in the opposite direction! We are not just creatures of thought, but of ACTION!
You said, "You can't think your way into a new way of acting, but you can act your way into a new way of thinking". This is exactly what I mean! You rock!
Best,
Matt
Posted by sapphiredragon on May 31, 2003, at 22:37:56
In reply to Re: Larry, your take on CBT? « Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2003, at 14:29:31
I recently began going to group therapy sessions of Recovery, Inc.
This is a method of cognitive/behavior therapy which was formulated in the 1930s & 40s by a psychiatrist named Abraham Low who was on the faculty at the University of Illinois in Chicago, I think.
Anyway, I have found it a very helpful adjunct to pharmaceuticals, as it helps me see how distortions in thinking (especially those rooted in the emotions of anger and fear) reverberate throughout my life.
Anyone else have experience with this method? A big advantage is the low cost . The suggested donation for participating in a group meeting is $2.00
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 1, 2003, at 14:25:00
In reply to Re: Larry, your take on CBT? « Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on May 31, 2003, at 14:29:31
Re: Larry, your take on CBT? » mattdds
Posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2003, at 17:42:01
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030530/msgs/230451.html
If you want to move the discussion there,
i'll meet you - just don't know the exact
address - is it social psycho babble, psycho
psycho, psycho or just nuts?Let me know - i've never discussed this
and i'm more likely to read and listen
than participate; can't see how pharmacological
controversies belong to Administration unless
i'm supposed to go there for punishment
(yuk yuk);Squiggles
----
Re: Larry, your take on CBT?
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2003, at 9:34:22
In reply to Re: Larry, your take on CBT? » mattdds, posted by Squiggles on May 31, 2003, at 17:42:01
> If you want to move the discussion there,
> i'll meet you - just don't know the exact
> address - is it social psycho babble, psycho
> psycho, psycho or just nuts?Psychological Babble, at the top of the page everytime you load PB.
----
Re: Larry, your take on CBT? » Larry Hoover
Posted by Squiggles on June 1, 2003, at 10:04:09
In reply to Re: Larry, your take on CBT?, posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2003, at 9:34:22
PB - that's Psycho Babble - that's where
i always go ?Well, anyway... i was perusing the great
wealth of information Dr. Bob has gathered
for everyone, and i hope i did not offend
him, as i am very greatful for it all. I
like the lectures in particular.Here's a Sunday morning interlude:
http://www.angelfire.com/hi4/DowntheRabbitHole/madsubs.html
Let me know if PsychoBabble is not PB, thanks.
Squiggles
----
Re: Larry, your take on CBT? » Squiggles
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2003, at 11:33:08
In reply to Re: Larry, your take on CBT? » Larry Hoover, posted by Squiggles on June 1, 2003, at 10:04:09
> PB - that's Psycho Babble - that's where
> i always go ?PB is Psycho-Babble. There's another one, Psychological-Babble. A link is at the top and bottom of the P-B page, or use:
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2003, at 14:30:19
In reply to Putting the cart before the horse -- Larry Hoover, posted by mattdds on May 31, 2003, at 16:51:59
> You said, "You can't think your way into a new way of acting, but you can act your way into a new way of thinking". This is exactly what I mean! You rock!
>
> Best,
>
> MattHey! I have a fan!
I don't know where I first came across that aphorism.....somewhere in a 12-step program, I'd imagine. It's just something that "stuck" to me.
Here's another one: "You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought of you, if you realized how seldom they did."
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2003, at 14:33:04
In reply to Abraham Low Recovery method, posted by sapphiredragon on May 31, 2003, at 22:37:56
> I recently began going to group therapy sessions of Recovery, Inc.
>
> This is a method of cognitive/behavior therapy which was formulated in the 1930s & 40s by a psychiatrist named Abraham Low who was on the faculty at the University of Illinois in Chicago, I think.
>
> Anyway, I have found it a very helpful adjunct to pharmaceuticals, as it helps me see how distortions in thinking (especially those rooted in the emotions of anger and fear) reverberate throughout my life.
>
> Anyone else have experience with this method? A big advantage is the low cost . The suggested donation for participating in a group meeting is $2.00I don't know that it matters too much which "flavour" of CBT you find helpful, just that it should be enriching and emotional safe. I certainly think the value you receive for your money is quite good. $2 can get you a large soda, or.....
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
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