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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by karen_kay on May 18, 2004, at 14:59:11
guys, i really just don't know anymore. i had group today and he mentioned that someone quit the group and returned to individual sessions with him. he asked how i felt about that. honestly, i'm glad the guy did it because he really seemed to be struggling lately. i got the impression he wanted me to be angry about it, but i honestly am not.
then, he asked about consistency and our impressions of the group. i finally stated that he is the biggest influence on my impression of the other members. that making comments such as 'he's not consistent' or 'i don't expect to see him back here' influences me much more than that person's behavior. he said he appreciated my input.
i also said that before group i'm very nervous because i'm afraid he's going to say something that i'd rather not discuss. and then when i leave group, most of the time i'm angry.
well, later he brought up the homeless. i said, 'i wish you wouldn't have brought that up' he said 'well, i'm trying to respect your boundaries and since you have discussed this topic in group, i thought it would be ok to bring up again' i said 'i just mean that i've forgotten about it for the time being and now you've reminded me of it' he said 'well, how many times last week did you think about homeless people?' i realized i hadn't and i burst into tears. he moved on.
at the end of the session, he said 'i want to get back to you to make sure you don't leave angry. are you angry because i reminded you that you hadn't thought about homeless people this week?' i said 'no, i'm not angry bubba, i'm hurt and feel selfish for not even thinking about others this whole week.' of course, he gave me the whole speech about being a good person and having to help myself before helping others, blah blah blah....
i just feel like he made that comment on purpose to hurt me (and god it hurt), just to say 'you're a bad person karen, here's the proof. you don't even think about other people and i'm here to point it out.' especially because he asked me if i was angry, and especially because i challenged him about biasing our impressions of the other members. maybe he didn't, maybe he expected me to say 'i thought about homeless people 56 times' maybe i should have thought about them. i just feel horrible, and i shouldn't feel horrible after group. i should feel better, right? this really is becoming a pattern...
and i feel bad for posting this, because i know people think i should leave. i know i should leave. it's really just not that simple. and besides, if i try to leae now, he'll say 'you're just following the other person's lead, ect. you should be in group, ect.' so, i'll go next week and he'll follow up with this discussion, as it was a 'big one'. and i'll cry again and feel like i'm a horrible person because hopefully i'll be able to put this out of my mind sometime soon. and i honestly don't think i have a problem for thinking about homeless people and being hurt about suffering. i have a problem for not doing anything about it.
i'm sorry, i sound like a broken record. go ahead, yell at me please!
Posted by All Done on May 18, 2004, at 15:30:25
In reply to about this therapist...., posted by karen_kay on May 18, 2004, at 14:59:11
Karen,
I知 must admit I知 very impressed with you for trying so hard to make group work (for you and the others). I hope you can learn to make it more about you, but I believe today was a good start for you. Bravo for challenging him on influencing you and the group about other members. I知 impressed that you brought that up and I wouldn稚 worry about him being mad at you about it. It sounds like he took it pretty well if he said he appreciated you input.
I知 not sure why he brought up the homeless people. Perhaps he was truly simply trying to engage you and didn稚 realize it would hurt you so much. I知 sorry that it did, though. You are a kind, sweet, caring person and we can all take a lesson in empathy from you.
Sorry I don稚 have too much time right now. I値l chat with you later, though, okay?
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by DaisyM on May 18, 2004, at 19:36:30
In reply to about this therapist...., posted by karen_kay on May 18, 2004, at 14:59:11
Karen,
No yelling. You sound like you need a hug instead. Wish I could give you a real one.
I'm sorry you left upset again. I guess I don't want to believe that he was aiming to hurt you on purpose but rather to engage you in some meaningful way. And to prove that he does "know" you pretty well. He seems to be struggling a lot with boundaries in group. His stuff, not yours.
I guess the question is, did you get anything out of it and do you think you will in the future? I think the agony is worth it (see my post below) if you are getting something back. Only you can decide what you are hoping to get from this group. I hope it still isn't just helping him.
As far as the homeless goes, I want you to really think about the help they might need and want. As someone in social services, I can tell you that often our pity is misplaced. Not being homeless yourself, contributing to society by working, going to school, living a good life may not seem remarkable but it contributes to the overall good in a way that can't be defined. I love that you are sensitive and want to help. There are so many ways to do that when you are ready and have the time and energy. But being good to yourself doesn't take away from anyone else. It doesn't help them to beat up on yourself either. The best way to help is to make a success out of your life. Truly. I promise. Then things will be put in your path that you can and should help with. It will be "your turn."
I hope you believe that. Hugs from me.
Daisy
Posted by octopusprime on May 18, 2004, at 20:40:59
In reply to Re: about this therapist.... ｻ karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on May 18, 2004, at 19:36:30
so sorry kk for missing the conference call and not chewing him out for you. next week conference me in. :)
but good on you for telling him how you felt about bringing up issues you weren't comfortable discussing.
i don't think he purposefully tried to hurt you, kk. please excuse the stereotyping, but you know how men are. :D i think he was trying to respect your boundaries but his good intentions went awry. just a simple foot-in-mouth syndrome maybe? you said he was not experienced at doing group, i think it's a symptom of inexperience rather than malice.
it doesn't matter what other people think about you leaving group (babblers or bubba). what matters is what you think. what were you trying to accomplish by joining the group? do you think you are going to accomplish your goals? it's tough.
((kk))
Posted by octopusprime on May 18, 2004, at 21:05:32
In reply to about this therapist...., posted by karen_kay on May 18, 2004, at 14:59:11
Posted by gardenergirl on May 18, 2004, at 23:12:01
In reply to about this therapist...., posted by karen_kay on May 18, 2004, at 14:59:11
KK,
It sounds like a really tough situation given your history with Bubba. Does he comment to you about the other group members outside of group, or during? If it is outside of group, that seems like he still had boundary issues.I do think it is great that you are not upset that he is seeing someone individually. I know that initially, you were really upset at this loss. Sounds like progress to me. Perhaps he brought up the homeless people in order to try to engage you more, because he feels that special bond slipping away as you become more independent?
Whatever is going on...you are a very special, caring person, KK. You bring such joy and love to all you encounter. It's tough to think about serious, complex problems like homelessness, but do not worry that you are not contributing to making the world a better place. Remember the rippling pond? You're still having an effect.
gg
Posted by tabitha on May 19, 2004, at 0:49:19
In reply to about this therapist...., posted by karen_kay on May 18, 2004, at 14:59:11
Hi karen, I don't usually feel better after group either. Today a guy was talking about his girlfriend, and how she keeps pushing his buttons, and it sounds like he's pretty unhappy with her, but he says he wants to stay in the relationship because that's where he needs to grow, and all his partners bring up issues, and so the answer isn't to switch partners (doesn't he sound saintly?). I said the appropriate group thing, how brave that was, how most people would dump their partner, or dump on their partner, so he ought to give himself credit. Secretly I was wondering if they guy isn't just an idiot to stay in a painful situation for the sake of 'growth'. It's not like they're married and have kids or anything, it's just some woman he's been dating a few months. Afer I got home I realized that pretty much sums up my whole relationship with therapy and the group. It doesn't feel good, but I'm convinced I need it for my 'growth'. I don't know whether I'm brave or an idiot. The two views really seem to coexist. It makes me nuts to try to decide.
There, I'm no help at all am I?
Posted by spoc on May 19, 2004, at 11:00:06
In reply to Re: about this therapist.... ｻ karen_kay, posted by tabitha on May 19, 2004, at 0:49:19
Hi KK,
I'm that generally clueless one in regard to various therapies and aspects of them, and am actually not even sure what the spectrum of objectives is for group therapy. For example, in my oversimplified reasoning, I would have guessed that it often regards helping people relate to others, which I gather you do pretty well already. But I am likely exhibiting my cluelessness there (about the range of purposes for group, not your ability to relate to others!).
Anyway, "common sense" to the extent I have it would make it seem like he does have his own boundary issues. You say he is not very experienced in this. Could he be going in with a vision of what would constitute a productive, fulfilling session for himself and his appearance of having conducted a non-stop, purposeful one; more so than keeping in mind the moment to moment needs of individual members? (But maybe that is actually the same thing -- that what is good for him should be good for the group; I don't know of course.)
And it does seem like it would be unavoidable that member's thoughts about others would be influenced by the leader having something to say about them when they aren't present. I'm sure that it is important for him to gage member's feelings about what is going on with the others, but I'm confused as to why he would do more than state the facts of what is going on with one of them; and then let the feedback and interpretations develop on their own.
In group therapy, is one of the premises about learning to adapt to many different kinds of people, and/or learning that anyone can benefit from the experiences and perspective of any other? Here, my faulty common sense is again wondering how it is that any small combination of people whatsoever should ultimately be able to develop chemistry and be "useful" to each other.
Eeek, I don't follow the Psych board that much and hope I am correct in gathering that you and some other Babblers have hypothesized that this group isn't necessarily suited to you. Otherwise I apologize if I am being an unsupportive bummer! I may be completely missing the mark about what the purpose of your participation is supposed to be. But, I'm wishing you all the best in getting what you need from this, and deciding if it is right for you! :- )
Posted by Racer on May 22, 2004, at 15:21:57
In reply to about this therapist...., posted by karen_kay on May 18, 2004, at 14:59:11
Sorry, that is meant as a flippant and ironic comment. I think there's something wrong, though, when you feel the need of therapy to help you recover from the trauma you experience in your therapy.
I'm in a similar situation, in that therapy is creating much more distress for me, and not in a good "we're really getting somewhere now" sort of way. On the other hand, I've got all my, "But it's only because I'm not willing to force myself to open up and trust and do the work, so quitting would only be running away and cowardly and another FAILURE on my part, so I have to keep banging my head against this 20 foot thick brick wall, because once I manage to knock it all down this way I'll be on the other side."
I just decided this morning that I'm going to quit. I'll write her a letter explaining why, and I'll leave her a message telling her that I'm quitting, but you know what? I just this morning decided that I'm going to go find a therapist who can help me find the DOOR to the tunnel to the other side.
Dunno if that helps you at all, knowing that someone else who couldn't decide to quit finally did, but I hope it does. If this helps, you have my permission to quit this group and find effective therapy -- either individual or group -- elsewhere.
Bestest luck to you, kiddo.
Posted by pegasus on May 22, 2004, at 15:59:08
In reply to Find a T to help you work this out? ｻ karen_kay, posted by Racer on May 22, 2004, at 15:21:57
Racer, that sounds just like where I am. I've been seeing a therapist that really wasn't working for me. I always misread her, and was angry at her. And I didn't like the way she talked to me. And I kept going for a while, because I figured that I could learn something from all of this.
But eventually I realized that I made so much progress with my previous T, *because* we got along well. I don't have to endure this really unpleasant therapy just because I could grow - eventually - from it. I can also grow from more pleasant, supportive-feeling therapy. I know because I've *done* it before.
So, I'm glad to hear that you're going to try to find someone who is a better fit for you. There are a lot of Ts out there. I'm sure at least one of them can help you find the door.
pegasus
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