![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on July 13, 2004, at 21:19:15
Hi all,I know I kind of disappeared as of late. I met a man (who happens to be a therapist of all things) and we started dating, which is very odd for me since I'm a lesbian. But that's been keeping me busy and also providing me with an important emotional outlet.
I talked to my T today again about being in love with her. This time maybe more explicitly than ever before. It was good in that I didn't think I'd be able to talk about it and I did, but it was painful. I dissociated so as not to feel too much in front of her, but I was also able to stay present in a way. When I came home, I just wanted to sleep forever. I tried to take a nap but the guy I've been dating called and then I just started crying and when I hung up with him, I cried really, really hard.
I'm so tired of this. I just can't accept that I never get to be her lover. Why is this going on so long? I didn't think it was supposed to go on and on like this. I really am so confused. It's so hard.
I don't know what else to say.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 13, 2004, at 23:34:49
In reply to Transference pain never ends, posted by crushedout on July 13, 2004, at 21:19:15
I wish I had magic words to comfort you. It does sound like a continued painful experience. And having a new relationship can be stressful, even if it's good stress. It sounds like a confusing time right now. You said it's gone on so long, but I think slow is a good thing right now. As painful as that may be. Although as I type this, I had this image of pulling off a bandaid, which you usually want to do fast. Slow is worse. See, it is confusing.
All I can really say is, I'm sorry you are hurting so much. You don't deserve it. No one does. Please take care.
(((((((((crushed))))))))))
gg
Posted by tabitha on July 14, 2004, at 1:28:00
In reply to Transference pain never ends, posted by crushedout on July 13, 2004, at 21:19:15
It doesn't seem fair you've been going through this pain for so long. You've really been brave to stick it out, and to keep talking it out with her. I hope you get some relief from the pain soon.
Posted by JenStar on July 14, 2004, at 4:05:45
In reply to Transference pain never ends, posted by crushedout on July 13, 2004, at 21:19:15
hey Crushed Out,
I'm sort of new to these boards (I've started posting to the Lexapro area since I'm sharing stories & advice about that drug with others.)Your story struck me. I'm sorry you're suffering.
After some reflection, it seems to me that therapy is a double-edged sword. After picking a therapist whom you like and to whom you relate, you share deeply personal stories and receive top-notch advice from someone who appears to genuinely care about your progress.
On the other hand, this person is forever separated by an invisible boundary that cuts you off from true 'friendship' or love with him/her. The human heart & soul are conditioned to latch onto people with whom we share such a connection, but the therapist is kind of like Teflon -- you can't fully attach as a friend.
It's a tantalizing and frustrating situation. Here is this person to whom you open your soul week after week, something that is normally done only to a best friend or lover. This person knows you intimately, in a sense (mentally!) -- that higher level for which we all long. Beauty is only skin deep, they say. Find that person who can see the 'real you', the beauty inside! Well, here's that person -- they've taken the time to see the real you.
Yet there is still that glass barrier, that line he/she isn't interested in crossing (and can't -- professional oath) because to them, you're still The Patient, not The Friend.
It's so normal to feel conflicted feelings for the therapist. It's usually kind, sensitive caring people who go into therapy as a career.
I guess my advice is: You have to find someone new to be the recipient of your affections. No matter how wonderful this person is, you can't have her. Do you even know her? She knows YOU...but she isn't an equal partner in the sharing & talking. You may want more, but unfortunately you can't have it. It sucks, but that's the way life is.
Again, I'm truly sorry you're suffering. I've had unrequited crushes in the past and I know how painful and sad they can be.
What did she say when you talked about the crush? What was her response? Is it possible you're dating the male therapist as a way to try and get from him what you can't get from her?
Good luck.
JenStar
>
> Hi all,
>
> I know I kind of disappeared as of late. I met a man (who happens to be a therapist of all things) and we started dating, which is very odd for me since I'm a lesbian. But that's been keeping me busy and also providing me with an important emotional outlet.
>
> I talked to my T today again about being in love with her. This time maybe more explicitly than ever before. It was good in that I didn't think I'd be able to talk about it and I did, but it was painful. I dissociated so as not to feel too much in front of her, but I was also able to stay present in a way. When I came home, I just wanted to sleep forever. I tried to take a nap but the guy I've been dating called and then I just started crying and when I hung up with him, I cried really, really hard.
>
> I'm so tired of this. I just can't accept that I never get to be her lover. Why is this going on so long? I didn't think it was supposed to go on and on like this. I really am so confused. It's so hard.
>
> I don't know what else to say.
>
>
Posted by crushedout on July 14, 2004, at 8:55:24
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends » crushedout, posted by gardenergirl on July 13, 2004, at 23:34:49
Posted by crushedout on July 14, 2004, at 8:58:24
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends, posted by tabitha on July 14, 2004, at 1:28:00
Yeah, it's been YEARS now. why me why me why me??? :((Sometimes self-pity is so necessary.)
Posted by crushedout on July 14, 2004, at 11:32:43
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends, posted by JenStar on July 14, 2004, at 4:05:45
Hi JenStar,
Yes, I agree with all you say about therapy and it's double-edged-swordedness. It can be very painful, and for me, it certainly is.
The problem with your advice of finding someone new is that it's not that simple. Because I'm in love with my therapist, I can't even really feel attracted to anyone else, much less fall in love. That's what I told her yesterday. I need to work through these feelings in order to be *capable* of finding someone new. But dating this guy *is* helping me in a lot of ways, although he can't in any way replace the spot my T has in my heart. She owns that spot.
And yes, as I've said many times before on this board, I *do* think I know her to some degree. You can never know someone completely, and I don't know her as well as I'd like to, or as well as her family does, I'm sure, but she's shared some details of her life with me, and I also think you can know someone without necessarily knowing that much about the "facts" of her life. You know how she interacts with you, that she's caring, what she looks like, how she dresses, decorates her office, you know her sense of humor, etc. -- these are all significant pieces of what a person is. And I love who she is.
> You may want more, but unfortunately you can't have it. It sucks, but that's the way life is.I'm sorry, but this isn't helpful to me. To the extent it is true, I already know it, and it's not even necessarily true. At least, *you* can't possibly know that it's true. Some therapists break boundaries. I'm not trying to say that would be a good thing, just that they do.
> Again, I'm truly sorry you're suffering. I've had unrequited crushes in the past and I know how painful and sad they can be.
Thank you. I don't think it's necessarily unrequited, but I do think it will likely never be consummated so that is similar to unrequited love in that there is little hope that I will ever get to fulfill my desire.
> What did she say when you talked about the crush? What was her response?She said it must be very painful to know that at least in one way I can never consummate my feelings for her. Or maybe I don't even fully know that I can't. She's said other things to me in the past, but that's what she said yesterday.
>Is it possible you're dating the male therapist as a way to try and get from him what you can't get from her?Absolutely. And I see nothing wrong with that. I think it's probably a really good thing for me. And as you said, "[i]t's usually kind, sensitive caring people who go into therapy as a career."
Posted by pinkeye on July 14, 2004, at 15:28:40
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends » JenStar, posted by crushedout on July 14, 2004, at 11:32:43
Hi Crushedout,
I know the pain of not being able to consummate your feelings for that person.
It is really painful to share so much and feel a lot and not being able to have a real relationship with them.
I don't have the answer to you since I am going through it as well, though in a much milder form I would say.
Time is a good healer. For all questions that we don't know the answer, it is a good strategy to lie low and wait out. Also distractions seem to help a lot.
Pinkeye> Hi JenStar,
>
> Yes, I agree with all you say about therapy and it's double-edged-swordedness. It can be very painful, and for me, it certainly is.
>
> The problem with your advice of finding someone new is that it's not that simple. Because I'm in love with my therapist, I can't even really feel attracted to anyone else, much less fall in love. That's what I told her yesterday. I need to work through these feelings in order to be *capable* of finding someone new. But dating this guy *is* helping me in a lot of ways, although he can't in any way replace the spot my T has in my heart. She owns that spot.
>
> And yes, as I've said many times before on this board, I *do* think I know her to some degree. You can never know someone completely, and I don't know her as well as I'd like to, or as well as her family does, I'm sure, but she's shared some details of her life with me, and I also think you can know someone without necessarily knowing that much about the "facts" of her life. You know how she interacts with you, that she's caring, what she looks like, how she dresses, decorates her office, you know her sense of humor, etc. -- these are all significant pieces of what a person is. And I love who she is.
>
>
> > You may want more, but unfortunately you can't have it. It sucks, but that's the way life is.
>
> I'm sorry, but this isn't helpful to me. To the extent it is true, I already know it, and it's not even necessarily true. At least, *you* can't possibly know that it's true. Some therapists break boundaries. I'm not trying to say that would be a good thing, just that they do.
>
> > Again, I'm truly sorry you're suffering. I've had unrequited crushes in the past and I know how painful and sad they can be.
>
> Thank you. I don't think it's necessarily unrequited, but I do think it will likely never be consummated so that is similar to unrequited love in that there is little hope that I will ever get to fulfill my desire.
>
>
> > What did she say when you talked about the crush? What was her response?
>
> She said it must be very painful to know that at least in one way I can never consummate my feelings for her. Or maybe I don't even fully know that I can't. She's said other things to me in the past, but that's what she said yesterday.
>
>
> >Is it possible you're dating the male therapist as a way to try and get from him what you can't get from her?
>
> Absolutely. And I see nothing wrong with that. I think it's probably a really good thing for me. And as you said, "[i]t's usually kind, sensitive caring people who go into therapy as a career."
>
Posted by Dinah on July 14, 2004, at 16:09:49
In reply to Transference pain never ends, posted by crushedout on July 13, 2004, at 21:19:15
Hi Crushed. It's good to see your name again, although I'm sorry things haven't gotten appreciably better. How is pragmatism working for you?
Posted by Raindancer on July 14, 2004, at 18:30:35
In reply to Transference pain never ends, posted by crushedout on July 13, 2004, at 21:19:15
Dear Crushed, I'm so sorry you've had such an awful time over so long and do hope things improve for you soon. You say that there is a special place in your heart for your T and that that place is hers. Well I think it always will be, no matter what happens in the future. We love many people in very many ways and some will be always special.
The way I see it (and I think I see it this way because I'm much older than you) is that you can choose to batter your head against a brick wall, ask for more than she can reasonably give you and make yourself desperately miserable or you can choose to enjoy the relationship as it is and use the time you have with her creatively and grow strong in it. There's no reason I can see why you can't stay in touch with her by email or letter for the rest of your lives if you both wish it. It just needs a shift in thinking (and this is not easy) knowing that you can't have it all, and if you could it might be damaging to both of you , but knowing that you can have some of it and seeing the love you have as a gift.I'm not being glib. I've been in this position myself and I'm old enough to know better.
Take care of yourself. You are a lovely person. Life has many possibilities, Hugs, R.
Posted by crushedout on July 14, 2004, at 19:00:48
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends » crushedout, posted by Raindancer on July 14, 2004, at 18:30:35
I totally hear you, Raindancer, and what you're saying makes a ton of sense (although it's a lot easier said than done). (How do you know that you're older than me, though?)I love this post. Thank you so much for it.
> Dear Crushed, I'm so sorry you've had such an awful time over so long and do hope things improve for you soon. You say that there is a special place in your heart for your T and that that place is hers. Well I think it always will be, no matter what happens in the future. We love many people in very many ways and some will be always special.
> The way I see it (and I think I see it this way because I'm much older than you) is that you can choose to batter your head against a brick wall, ask for more than she can reasonably give you and make yourself desperately miserable or you can choose to enjoy the relationship as it is and use the time you have with her creatively and grow strong in it. There's no reason I can see why you can't stay in touch with her by email or letter for the rest of your lives if you both wish it. It just needs a shift in thinking (and this is not easy) knowing that you can't have it all, and if you could it might be damaging to both of you , but knowing that you can have some of it and seeing the love you have as a gift.
>
> I'm not being glib. I've been in this position myself and I'm old enough to know better.
>
> Take care of yourself. You are a lovely person. Life has many possibilities, Hugs, R.
Posted by crushedout on July 14, 2004, at 19:03:44
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends » crushedout, posted by Dinah on July 14, 2004, at 16:09:49
Hi Dinah,Maybe things are getting better but I don't know it yet.
Pragmatism was a huge gift. I use it often and always give you some credit for it in my mind. :)
crushed
Posted by Rigby on July 14, 2004, at 20:29:38
In reply to Transference pain never ends, posted by crushedout on July 13, 2004, at 21:19:15
Hi Crushed.
Well, what an effin **drag!!** I think I'd be worn out too with a therapist crush that went on for as long and as intensely as yours has.
My first take is that you're not super into this guy. If you were head over heels, the (female) therapist crush would be buh-bye. So if by any chance you were doing better in terms of your crush and now you feel that you're back sliding it could be because something is lacking between you and the person you're dating. And you don't want to settle for something any less electric or wonderful than what you feel for your therapist. This is a *good* thing! The fact that it can't be her is definitely tough *but* it means you're capable of feelings deep and wide.
Lots of assumptions and presumptions on my end so I hope I'm not offending.
Anyway, hope things get better. I'm sure they will.
> Hi all,
>
> I know I kind of disappeared as of late. I met a man (who happens to be a therapist of all things) and we started dating, which is very odd for me since I'm a lesbian. But that's been keeping me busy and also providing me with an important emotional outlet.
>
> I talked to my T today again about being in love with her. This time maybe more explicitly than ever before. It was good in that I didn't think I'd be able to talk about it and I did, but it was painful. I dissociated so as not to feel too much in front of her, but I was also able to stay present in a way. When I came home, I just wanted to sleep forever. I tried to take a nap but the guy I've been dating called and then I just started crying and when I hung up with him, I cried really, really hard.
>
> I'm so tired of this. I just can't accept that I never get to be her lover. Why is this going on so long? I didn't think it was supposed to go on and on like this. I really am so confused. It's so hard.
>
> I don't know what else to say.
>
>
Posted by JenStar on July 14, 2004, at 22:54:03
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends, posted by JenStar on July 14, 2004, at 4:05:45
Well, I have my fingers crossed that you will meet the perfect person and that he/she will reciprocate in kind. Good luck with the therapist you're currently dating -- I'm rooting for that to work out too, if you want it to! :)
I know no advice can help, really. I'm sorry that this person won't/can't give you the relationship you want. I hope I didn't sound callous in my previous mail; I wasn't trying to. It really DOES suck when you love someone and don't get those feelings in return. I think it's one of the most horrible feelings on earth.
Anyway, I'm thinking of you & hoping you find the love you want.
Take care!
JenStar
Posted by crushedout on July 16, 2004, at 15:43:07
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends, posted by Rigby on July 14, 2004, at 20:29:38
Rigby,Yeah. (A), I'm a lesbian -- I don't get super-into guys. (B), being in love with my therapist makes it very hard for me to get super-into anyone. That's the problem, or part of it.
But, I really don't think I'm "settling." This guy is really great. The sex is really good, I'm learning so much about myself, and I really, really like him. I don't feel capable of falling in love with a guy and I've told him that. He's ok with everything, which is one of the amazing things about him. Sometimes I think being in love isn't all it's cracked up to be, anyway. And I feel like he's helping me in a huge way to get over my therapist, or, as much as anyone has ever been able to help me, which is not much. But I'm hopeful. So, it's definitely a good development in my life, there's no question about it.
Which brings me to the point that I'm not at all "backsliding." Quite the contrary. I just haven't "frontslided" and that's why I'm miserable. I feel like I should have gotten past this by now and I'm not at all past it yet. I feel like I might just be ready to begin the process, but haven't I been trying to begin this process for a year now? Yes, I think I have. And it's been an agonizing, tortuous year in many ways.
I also disagree that if I get into someone that my crush is going to go away. I kind of believe I will always have this place in my heart for her --a crush on some level -- like Raindancer was saying, and that I have to find a way to make the most of it and find other people who can take up residence in other parts of my heart. Sounds cheesy but you know what I mean.
I think thinking of this relationship as "settling," or thinking I have to find something as electric and wonderful as what I have with my T will only keep me where I am forever, which is not a good place to be. This relationship represents growth for me.
Enough said.
crushed
Posted by crushedout on July 16, 2004, at 15:48:12
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends, posted by JenStar on July 14, 2004, at 22:54:03
Thanks, Jenstar. I keep trying to tell you that it's not necessarily "unrequited," though! It's just very unlikely to get consummated. I think it's at least partially requited. That's all. Why I'm so hung up on you understanding this point, I'm not really sure. (I guess it feels less bad to know that my feelings are at least partially returned even if we can never act on them.) But let's not get into that.
Posted by JenStar on July 16, 2004, at 17:36:33
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends » JenStar, posted by crushedout on July 16, 2004, at 15:48:12
hi there Crushed,
OK...sometimes I have a thick skull. :) I believe you when you say your feelings are requited. Just feel sad for you that they won't get consummated. I do understand better, I think, after re-reading your posts.I really don't want to upset you here... just trying to offer my (sometimes blunt) advice. I'll try to tone it down in the future. I'm new to the board but like all you guys already - everyone is so interesting and varied and helpful to each other.
take care.
hope things are going well with you!
JenStar
> Thanks, Jenstar. I keep trying to tell you that it's not necessarily "unrequited," though! It's just very unlikely to get consummated. I think it's at least partially requited. That's all. Why I'm so hung up on you understanding this point, I'm not really sure. (I guess it feels less bad to know that my feelings are at least partially returned even if we can never act on them.) But let's not get into that.
Posted by Rigby on July 17, 2004, at 17:37:12
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends » Rigby, posted by crushedout on July 16, 2004, at 15:43:07
Eeks--sorry, it sounds like I've offended you. Didn't mean to! I guess I tend to think of how I operate and that's not how everyone does (DUH!!)
For me, in the past I've settled for "good" relationships but not ones that were electric or ones that **I** chose; it was always the other person doing the chosing and me going along. So somewhere along the way I became this huge advocate for not settling in my life so I'm attuned (perhaps overly so) to this potentiality in other people's situations.
I dunno about the therapist crush that won't die. I mean it sounds like the new relationship is *great.* One thought: Maybe try and get specific about what it is about this guy that makes you not be able to fall in love with him (more specific than that he's male) and what is it about your therapist that makes you feel in love?
For me, as mentioned before, the therapist crush *finally* faded with a series of very, very intense dreams and a lightning bolt revelation. And then, peace. Lots of turmoil before then though (maybe like what you've got going on.) Even when I did arrive at peace with this therapist for a short time I was angry at how much it took out of me to get there.
I do think crushes fade with time but I had a bad one that lasted about seven years. Sadly it took a large chunk of my life away. Yuck. Retrospectively it was really mostly about deep stuff in me and the rest about the object of my affection. But hindsight's 20/20 as usual.
> Yeah. (A), I'm a lesbian -- I don't get super-into guys. (B), being in love with my therapist makes it very hard for me to get super-into anyone. That's the problem, or part of it.
>
> But, I really don't think I'm "settling." This guy is really great. The sex is really good, I'm learning so much about myself, and I really, really like him. I don't feel capable of falling in love with a guy and I've told him that. He's ok with everything, which is one of the amazing things about him. Sometimes I think being in love isn't all it's cracked up to be, anyway. And I feel like he's helping me in a huge way to get over my therapist, or, as much as anyone has ever been able to help me, which is not much. But I'm hopeful. So, it's definitely a good development in my life, there's no question about it.
>
> Which brings me to the point that I'm not at all "backsliding." Quite the contrary. I just haven't "frontslided" and that's why I'm miserable. I feel like I should have gotten past this by now and I'm not at all past it yet. I feel like I might just be ready to begin the process, but haven't I been trying to begin this process for a year now? Yes, I think I have. And it's been an agonizing, tortuous year in many ways.
>
> I also disagree that if I get into someone that my crush is going to go away. I kind of believe I will always have this place in my heart for her --a crush on some level -- like Raindancer was saying, and that I have to find a way to make the most of it and find other people who can take up residence in other parts of my heart. Sounds cheesy but you know what I mean.
>
> I think thinking of this relationship as "settling," or thinking I have to find something as electric and wonderful as what I have with my T will only keep me where I am forever, which is not a good place to be. This relationship represents growth for me.
>
> Enough said.
>
> crushed
Posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 19:43:40
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends, posted by Rigby on July 17, 2004, at 17:37:12
In the past, I have struggled with bad crushes on unattainable people (they weren't unattainable because they were therapists, but because they were emotionally unhealthy or addicts etc.). If anyone else has struggle with this too, I would recommend you research "love addction" on the net. Just type it into google. I do think that in many ways I had some additive elements when it came to the obsessive crushes. Not saying anyone else does...only you can assess that. But once I started looking at the situations as a psycholgoical addiction I was powerless over, it became easier to recognize the potential of the next one when it came along and try to prevent it. You can use a 12-step model to help you. I was already going to 12-step programs for ACOA issues, so I used that along with reading a lot of self-help books on love and romance addiction.
For me, treating it as an addiction that I was powerless over without a higher power's help made it easier and less insidious somehow. Now I do not get those obsessions, thank God, but I had to get severely depressed before I started realizing their effect on my life.
Posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 19:48:42
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends, posted by Joslynn on July 18, 2004, at 19:43:40
P.S. I DO feel some paternal and/or romatic (but not really sexual) transference with my male pdoc sometimes, and I have talked about it in an indirect way with him and my female therp. I think I sometimes idealize him and other times want to villify him. I keep wondering, where is his Terrible Evil Dark Side and other times, I can't understand why he won't just run away with me, ha ha. (Not that I would ever say that in those words.) Then I read posts of others who have gotten involved with their therps etc and realize that it would devastate me.
It can take up a lot of mental real estate for me I do have to keep my eye on it. I don't ever want to be obsessed with anyone again the way I used to be.
Posted by Raindancer on July 19, 2004, at 15:36:16
In reply to Re: Transference pain never ends » Raindancer, posted by crushedout on July 14, 2004, at 19:00:48
Because I sometimes feel that I'm older than everyone in the world!! I'm 61 and a grandmother to five and have two stepgrandkids too. I hope that things will go really well for you soon. You deserve it. I think you're great.R
This is the end of the thread.
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