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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2004, at 1:33:45
In reply to Doctor role muddle, posted by Tanya K on July 17, 2004, at 8:52:52
Posted by Tanya K on July 17, 2004, at 8:52:52
> I'm in a strange situation.
> I was dx with cancer 4 yrs ago,I was a pharma rep at the time,my company still pay me but never let me go back to work after my prolonged bout of treatment.
> Two years ago I moved house,I knew my new doctor through my previous work,she's helped me thru countless operations now.
> I have this funny obsession about her,been trying to understand it ,its not sexual,I just want to be friends with her.
> Our consultations have been more like two[heterosexual]girlfriends getting onto subjects like fashion,travelling etc,we have many mutual friends.
>
> When I was told my cancer had spread last year she seemed to fall to bits,one minute she was wonderful,the next she was awful to me,she said some rotten things,it was as if she could not handle my distress.We both know I'm dying but at the moment I'm pretty active.
> We came to blow up point,me very calm,her very defensive.I went to see her taking a sensible friend.My GP said she didn't want to lose me as a patient.We set up regular appointments to meet to discuss any issues I have.It was clear she knew she had let me down,I didn't really want to stay in the GP/patient relationship with her but knew she'd be hurt if I changed docs.
> Since then my trust has slowly returned,but my sanity at the time seemed to depend on her.
> I now take a mutual friend when I go to see her,in amongst my very dreadful issues we all have a laugh together.My GP often asks what we have been up to,listens,then sighs and says she would have loved to have been there with us.Our mutual friend is unsure if we should ask my GP along on our jaunts,my friend is a GP too.We wonder if we are crossing some boundary somewhere.
> Is this transference do you think?There must be a mother/child aspect to it,but it feels more like my GP and I were destined to become good friends,we just like each other a lot,if I'd remained as a healthy pharma rep would we now be spending ages blabbing on the phone like best friends?Instead I am her patient.She has said she finds the fact that she knew me before muddling.
> Our boundaries are so blurred,I write for a GP magazine she reads,we share cleaning ladies and friends.
> My GP admitted she couldn't handle the fact that I was sick.She's doing her very best for me,I know that,she's not perfect but her best is enough for me.
> At times it seems to me that only she can fix my head and tell me its ok.
> Our sessions always run way over time.
> I see a psychologist too,my psychologist felt last year that my relationship with my GP was worth saving,and it was normal for us to get on so well,don't think my psychologist knows the depth of my feeling for my GP.
> Can anyone work this out for me?
> I'm single and on my own now,I have heaps of very close friends tho and a great social life
> love Tanya xxxx
Posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 1:46:23
In reply to Doctor role muddle « Tanya K, posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2004, at 1:33:45
It sounds like you two have a special relationship. I know plenty of nurses that know their doctors personally as friends too. As you know you will in the future have to make some difficult decisions, do you feel that this friend/MD can stay in your best interests as a physician? Your wishes are what is important right now. As you may know, it is hard to make decisions in a crisis for someone you have deep feelings for like a friend. Can this MD do this for you when you are going to need that? Look at what they did in the past to help guide your decision.
Posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 9:31:21
In reply to Doctor role muddle « Tanya K, posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2004, at 1:33:45
I think I've reassured my GP that I don't expect the world from her,I think she was overwhelmed last year.I'm aware of her limits now,I don't think I'll crash in the way I did before.
She has faults,one is forgetting things,I can joke about it now.She's terrified of getting things wrong,like wording an important letter.
I want to stay with her because I know she will feel failure deeply if I go,and also because she is the only good GP in the practice[the others are pretty bad!I've too much insider info!]
My GP is v up to date,always ready to try something new,and appreciates I'm an expert patient on my disease,many GP's find that a threat,I dx my own iritis as rare side effect of infusion given by hospital,my GP missed it and felt bad,but I have no probs with that as my oncologist missed it too.I had to stop the drug,it was listed as "eye pain" one in 100,000!!
I read a book on cancer psychology,it said that the special patient can become the difficult patient very easily,the doc promises something and it fails,with sometimes catastrophic results,leaving the patient let down and the doc upset.
Knowing I was getting dreadful news my doc said she could be contacted out of hours,just phone surgery,I did,they told me to get lost,hearing you are dying wasn't an emergency.The receptionist wouldn't listen that my GP had told me to do this,that's what set of a dreadful chain of events for me,I realised then how much I had come to depend on my GP.
Having read up on transference I'm wondering if she realises how much I feel for her,she sees me regularly now,which appears to be a classic way of dealing with patients who latch onto docs!It keeps me sane and calm!
Actually I'd quite like to be able to change docs so I can go shopping with her instead!
love T xxxxx
Posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 12:58:47
In reply to Re: Doctor role muddle, posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 9:31:21
Please don't get me wrong here, but I don't think you are the one that should be reassuring the doc. I feel as an RN it should be the other way around. Who is really taking care of whom? You seem very concerned about how the doc feels. That's where the muddling comes into play. The doc should be able to take care of themselves. You shouldn't have to be a "perfect" or "good" patient. Patients with terminal illnesses go through an a range of grieving and there anger sometimes gets directed at loved ones and their docs. The docs are trained to recognize this and handle it.
My concern, Tanya K, is you and not your doc friend. If you want a shopping friend, this is the right person. But, this person isn't able to stay objective from a medical stand point due to the close friendship. From my own experience, one can't see clearly when you love someone in the clinical setting. It's like you freeze. Trust me. This is why there is a rule that you can't treat family. I know she isn't family, but it sounds like she feels very close and is having her own grieving over your condition.
You are the focus. Don't worry about transference. Can't you still have your friendship without seeing her as your primary GP? Have her as your support person or a backup GP. Tanya, this is your life and you have a right to your feelings. You have a right to feel the gammit and not worry about protecting someone who doesn't have this illness. It's okay to be thinking of you know. You are the patient and you don't have to take care of anyone but you.
I have a close loved one with terminal ovarian ca and the past few years all she has done with her life is just try and take care of adult kids self-created problems. While that is her choice, I don't think that I would do the same. I would be like, "You adult children need to grow up and take care of yourselves, because I am going to enjoy every minute I can." I would tell them to either join me or step out of my way. My point here is some people will take up some of your precious time with their issues. Now, is the time for you do use every minute of your life as you wish. This is your life, Tanya. What do you want to do with it? In my eyes, this is the true focus.
Posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 18:12:18
In reply to Re: Doctor role muddle, posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 12:58:47
I feel that she IS trying very hard just now...and although I'm "dying" I'm still very fit apart from my leg,I'm able to raise huge amounts of money and do big things in the time I have[even ending up on the tv shortly!]
Things have not yet got tough,most of the time I think its all a bad dream.
apart from the hurt I would inflict as I'm rural I only have her colleagues to choose from,honestly they are pretty grim!I did try to go to another,he asked me why I thought my illness was serious!It was awful,he was so smug and patronising.He told me about a patient he had with Parkinsons who had the cheek to bring in stuff he[the patient]had found on the net.This GP laughed and told me he put it straight in the bin.In a small community I could have easily identified this poor patient who is no doubt just seeking help.
Of the other partners one is the one who was awful to me the night of my mets dx,another is his wife and a cold woman,the other is my GPs husband.We have no other GPs in our area.
My GP[male]friend described my GP's other partners as "anal" whatever that means.
So really I don't have much choice.
actually talking about this situation has helped my head so much,it seems that my behaviour is not mad!!
From my previous career I have several docs keeping in touch,I remember cringing when patients asked my Dad in the street about symptoms,but these docs really want to help me so I don't feel bad about phoning them and asking complicated questions when things are bad.
They all think highly of my GP.
I find that the past four years have taught me to care for most folk,but I don't put up with much that causes me pain,ca in a funny way has made me stronger.I'm so glad I found this site,it will help me talk to my psychologist.I see a psychiatrist too,they work together,I'm taking every bit of help I can get,they have given my writings[in GP magazine]to trainee docs at the hospital,both in psych dept and pain control,such an honour!Thank you so much for being here
love T xxxxxx
ps I am RSCN
Posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 18:43:11
In reply to Re: Doctor role muddle, posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 18:12:18
I admire your strength and courage. I feel that I could learn a lot from you. I am sorry that you had such experiences with those docs.
Posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 18:43:59
In reply to Re: Doctor role muddle, posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 12:58:47
Re loved ones,I have learned the hard way that my loved ones are grieving in their own way,I DO have an obligation to be aware of their feelings,intitially at dx I thought the world revolved around me[the cry "I have cancer"is a real trump card!],it doesn't,other people still have their very valid feelings,I have to be thoughtful in what I say or do.It isn't out of a wish to be good,we all die,I'm dying young,that's very hard for them.
That said I only mix with the people who love me,and I'm constantly amazed by the kind folk who surround me.Or the people I've never met who support me,send emails or letters.
My life is much populated by other girls suffering from this disease[breast cancer]recently most of the stage 4 girls have died.
I used to think I was working thru my own feelings by going the extra mile for these girls,but they bring me peace.I think most of the stuff we do for others,we truely do for ourselves in some way.I should be scared,like most of the stage one and two girls in our local support group,of women with mets,but I never have been.I feel a bit adrift from those I was dx with who are piecing their lives together now,they view me with fear.
In terms of personal growth I wouldn't give back my cancer diagnosis,but wouldn't it have been lovely if my life had just gone on?I would still be sleeping,thinking that I was immortal,married to my lovely vet[who left me at dx]having his babies[chemo left me sterile,he has a child now,oh the pain!]
I live in a strange place,apart from other humans,I watch them with their families,its almost alien.
I'm still fascinated by transferance,I think I was always seeking my father figure in my relationships!
love T xxxxx
Posted by pinkeye on July 19, 2004, at 19:18:34
In reply to ps, posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 18:43:59
Given what you are going through, it is normal to feel very attached to your GP. And I don't see any reason why you would want to stop, unless she is not capable of dealing with the stress and pain of losing you. A good thing would be to talk to her openly about it, say what you feel, why you feel so close to her. Also it will give her an oppurtunity to tell you what she thinks of why, why she is scared.
But you have my warm thoughts and prayers. You have displayed an astonishing amount of strength and courage and braveness.
Do you believe in rebirth and birth/death cycle? Indian relgion says that all of us go through a cycle of births and deaths till eventually we reach God. If you are interested I can give you more info. So even though you are dying, you will be born again, with better health, in a better family, and will be loved more in your life. Spend some time in the rest of your life for prayers.
With love,
Pinkeye.
Posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 19:49:59
In reply to ps, posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 18:43:59
What you wrote was so powerful and moving. I hope you don't mind if I share something here.
Personally, I have always been afraid of death, because I have PTSD. I have lived my entire life feeling like I was going to have a rock fall from the sky or something. I always feel like tomorrow will never come. I took a class in college to on the subject of death, because I thought it would help me face my fears. I tried to discuss what I learned with others. No one wanted to hear what I had learned from the Death and Dying class. I still have a problem with it. I think it has to do with my religious upbringing. So, I really do admire your courage in facing this illness. I don't think that I would handle it the same way due to all my fears.
I am sorry that you had to experience such pain with that vet. He showed his true colors. You deserve a person who is honest and would be there when you need them.
Posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 20:11:41
In reply to Re: ps, posted by pinkeye on July 19, 2004, at 19:18:34
I know,I read the Conversations With God books,and went to see His Holiness the Dalai Lama last month.
I have faith that I will survive death,its just that I'd like to do this life again,and again,till I get it right!
thanks for your kind words
love T xxxxx
Posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 20:22:07
In reply to Re: ps, posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 19:49:59
I cannot ask a man to love me now,how to drag him through such pain?And anyway my meds castrate me!No hormones now!Kindof interesting tho...
Death,its just like birth,we are all like wee ants if you look at the millions of years on this planet.
Death happens to us all,don't fear it,read Dr Kubhler ross's book,are we not just butterflies waiting to be released from our cocoons?
I'd like to fly in my next life,like a fairy[my psychic says fairies are part of the angel group]and if we do not survive death then what's the point in worrying?That's it then,we won't know a thing about it?
But I think we do,and if we knew it was better the human race would not fight to survive,hence the Big Secret.
My friend Georgie who died of BC sent me a message[apparently]not to be frightened,it was lovely out here.I felt calm,but life is still delicious to be lived and savoured till the very last lick
love T xxxxx
Posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 21:03:13
In reply to Re: ps, posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 20:22:07
Wow, that's so weird you mentioned fairies. My b-day is Wed, so I ordered shirts with fairies on them. One has a fairy surrounding by butterflies.
Yes, I have heard of Kubler-Ross in my class. I didn't read any of her books yet. My teacher said that she now has spirit guides in her current life that talk with her. She talked about the stages of grieving and how people have visitors before they pass. My Grandmother told my mother that Uncle Milton came to see her at the home. Uncle Milton had passed about 30 years ago. I told my mother that's a sign. Sure enough, my Grandmother passed easily. I believe this really happens. My mother said her Uncle Milton was the sweetest man she ever knew.:)
Yes, I agree with you death is like a rebirth. We will no longer be in these Earthly bodies, but I think I need more spirituality. I really do. I lack a lot of faith and trust in what I can't see.
Posted by Joslynn on July 20, 2004, at 8:51:19
In reply to Re: ps, posted by shadows721 on July 19, 2004, at 21:03:13
Wow Tanya, you are really an inspiration in how you are facing all this. I hope that you are comfortable during this time and not in physical pain.
As for the transference, I think that with a general MD, it wouldn't be as charged, because they don't get into your head the way a pdoc or therp does. So maybe it really could be a genuine friendship based on reality....
Posted by Tanya K on July 20, 2004, at 10:34:35
In reply to Re: ps, posted by Joslynn on July 20, 2004, at 8:51:19
Is that different to tranference?
actually my obsession is lessening with the light you are all dawning on me!
love T xxxxx
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2004, at 10:38:21
In reply to Re: ps, posted by Tanya K on July 19, 2004, at 20:11:41
> I read the Conversations With God books...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Tanya K on July 20, 2004, at 13:08:04
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Tanya K, posted by Dr. Bob on July 20, 2004, at 10:38:21
what on Earth are double double quotes?Like "this"?
thanks T xx
Posted by Tanya K on July 20, 2004, at 13:09:42
In reply to ok but, posted by Tanya K on July 20, 2004, at 13:08:04
"Conversations with God" Neale Donald Walshe
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2004, at 16:53:43
In reply to ok but, posted by Tanya K on July 20, 2004, at 13:08:04
Posted by Tanya K on September 20, 2004, at 19:49:43
In reply to Re: thanks! (nm) » Tanya K, posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2004, at 16:53:43
Just heard i have multiple brain tumours[secondaries]a shock.
My GP so far is star,I hope it continues,I warned her I'd go bonkers/get angry with her,she said ok as she'd put it down to disease[we laughed about this]she let me keep my driving licence.
Only a few months left.Head shaving again,don't mind,going for last ever hairdo tomorrow!!!
Peace to all,love life,its precious
Tanya xxxxxxxx
Posted by Annierose on September 20, 2004, at 20:13:46
In reply to An update, posted by Tanya K on September 20, 2004, at 19:49:43
You are so brave! And, it seems, at peace with the life you have left to live. I'll put you in my prayers.
This is the end of the thread.
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