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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:32:01
What is a mirror?
I have heard the term (and have the tendancy to use it) but I am not really sure what it means...
I thought it was when you strongly identify with someone. Not necessarily that you condone their action or whatever, but that you can identify with similar action urges or whatever.
What about when you feel intense dislike for someone though? When they bring out the worst in you? Not because you identify with what they are doing but just where you get a strong reaction to it?
Is that just another variety of the same phenemonon?
I shall do a google on mirrors now...
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:36:00
In reply to Mirrors, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:32:01
ok, so this wasn't what I was getting at but it is interesting nevertheless...
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:49:05
In reply to Re: Mirrors, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:36:00
Hey, wow, this one is good:
http://home.webuniverse.net/babette/mirror.htm
I guess sometimes we all just get tired...
Posted by daisym on February 6, 2005, at 20:22:11
In reply to Mirrors, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:32:01
I like all the research you've done -- very interesting articles!
I'll add another definition if I may...
In self psychology, it is believed that clients need three basic things to "shore up" their self structure - Mirroring, idealized parental imago, and twinning (or twinship). Mirroring refers to a child's need to hear the answer to "mirror, mirror, on the wall, whose the fairest of them all? -- You are!" over and over again. Children eventually internalize this voice that tells them they are great and thus develops self-esteem.
Self-psychologists use this technique with adults typically by pointing out a client's existing strengths, not by gratifying the need, necesarily. Clients need and want to know that their therapist likes them and believes in them. Especially if they didn't get this from their parents. The flip side of this for kids is that instead of internalizing a positive parental voice, they become narcissistic or grandiose in an attempt to get noticed and make themselves feel good about themselves.
It is much more complicated than this, but that is the basic outline of it. Hope it helps.
(My therapist uses a lot of self-psychology techniques.)
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 20:43:47
In reply to Re: Mirrors » alexandra_k, posted by daisym on February 6, 2005, at 20:22:11
Thanks. That was a bit different from what I was thinking... I guess it is one of those terms that has different meanings for different theorietical orientations. Maybe a term I had best avoid in fututre :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 20:45:19
In reply to Mirrors, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:32:01
> What about when you feel intense dislike for someone though? When they bring out the worst in you? Not because you identify with what they are doing but just where you get a strong reaction to it?
Posted by daisym on February 6, 2005, at 21:05:36
In reply to Re: What is this then????, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 20:45:19
Don't you think this is a transference? (Unless of course the person is doing something that you hate or is mean and nasty, then if you don't like them it seems appropriate...)
A transference can be triggered by so many things and is a response from a previous experience or old feelings, out of proportion from the situation. We all do that, and it makes sense most of the time, learning from our prior experiences.
The classic question is, "who does this person remind you of?" if you feel you are responding in a way unwarranted by their actions. And often the worst in us comes out as a defense against something - fear usually.
Is there a specific situation that is causing this concern?
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 21:53:33
In reply to Re: What is this then???? » alexandra_k, posted by daisym on February 6, 2005, at 21:05:36
I suppose they remind me of the worst fears I had about myself. I judge them to be the way that I was so afraid others judged me. I know I shouldn't judge them. But even the behaviours. I never did that, I didn't.
(I want to say 'I am not like that I am not' - but maybe I just won't face up to it...)
I guess the issue is that I do not cope at all well with people who frequently dysregulate emotionally. When people are upset it always sends me into a bit of a spin. But I have learned to control that and deal with it. I am always left reeling a bit inside but I usually understand that my response is my issue and I just take a couple of hours or days or whatever and then I am okay again. But when the dysregulation is (IMO) fairly much constant then I can't return to baseline before the next episode. And then, over time, as I feel more worn out I feel like I despise them for 'making' me feel that way - though, of course it isn't their fault.
Transference?
Posted by Susan47 on February 6, 2005, at 23:21:00
In reply to Re: Mirrors, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:49:05
I believe my last therapist was extremely empathetic. I know I wore him out. Burnout, baby, big time. If I could take it all back, I would. I think I was a Very Bad Experience.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 23:57:03
In reply to Re: Mirrors » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on February 6, 2005, at 23:21:00
I was one of those for the last t who terminated me too :-(
Posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 23:58:33
In reply to Re: Mirrors » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on February 6, 2005, at 23:21:00
Posted by gardenergirl on February 7, 2005, at 10:18:08
In reply to Re: Mirrors » Susan47, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 23:57:03
I think of mirroring from Kohut, a self psychologist, in a similar way to Daisy's post. I would expand it a little, though to include mirroring of emotions.
For example, if a child feels happy about something, he/she may look at the parent to check their reaction. Mirroring would be when the parent shows happiness, too, assuming it's appropriate. It's like looking in the mirror to check your reflection and to see yourself. Kids need this to learn about their feelings and internal experiences, and also to feel secure and cohesive. Imagine if you never ever had a real mirror. How would you know what you looked like? Who you are to some extent. We look to others for a reflection of our selves, which serves to solidify our sense of self.
Hope this helps.
gg
Posted by Shortelise on February 7, 2005, at 12:42:27
In reply to Mirrors, posted by alexandra_k on February 6, 2005, at 18:32:01
THanks for this thread - it is answering questions I didn't even know I had.
ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2005, at 13:12:38
In reply to Re: Mirrors, posted by Shortelise on February 7, 2005, at 12:42:27
Ok, thanks peoples.. I didn't mean mirror. But good to know what that is about. A form of validation, yes, I see...
Hey, I wonder whether those empathy neurons get going not just when we look at peoples, but when we hear them, or read what they have to say / read about them as well....?
Posted by Shortelise on February 8, 2005, at 0:18:18
In reply to Re: Mirrors, posted by alexandra_k on February 7, 2005, at 13:12:38
What did you mean, "I didn't mean mirror."? I am so confused - but interested!
ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2005, at 0:36:05
In reply to Sorry? » alexandra_k, posted by Shortelise on February 8, 2005, at 0:18:18
> What did you mean, "I didn't mean mirror."? I am so confused - but interested!
http://dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050206/msgs/454117.html
Then to elaborate...
http://dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050206/msgs/454141.html
So it isn't 'mirror' - is it? Transference? Stuffed if I know :-)
Posted by fallsfall on February 8, 2005, at 7:15:58
In reply to Re: Sorry? » Shortelise, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2005, at 0:36:05
Or, if you are seeing in them the things you hate in yourself, it could be projection...
Posted by Dinah on February 8, 2005, at 8:14:42
In reply to Re: Sorry? » Shortelise, posted by alexandra_k on February 8, 2005, at 0:36:05
Empathy, in it's purest form?
Not the nice positive asset sort.
But the tuning fork vibrating in response to what's around you sort.
I get that a lot, especially in public.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 2:09:14
In reply to Re: Sorry? » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on February 8, 2005, at 8:14:42
I don't think it is empathy.
More likely lack of empathy.
If I truely empathised I wouldn't dislike them - would I?> Empathy, in it's purest form?
>
> Not the nice positive asset sort.
>
> But the tuning fork vibrating in response to what's around you sort.
>
> I get that a lot, especially in public.
Posted by alexandra_k on February 11, 2005, at 2:10:34
In reply to Re: Sorry? » alexandra_k, posted by fallsfall on February 8, 2005, at 7:15:58
Maybe.
Yeah actually, I think I get that.
My judgement.
That is the problem...> Or, if you are seeing in them the things you hate in yourself, it could be projection...
This is the end of the thread.
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