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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 31. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:09:19
Seems like you guys are pretty quiet? Holiday stuff? I hope you are all doing well. And anyone else I missed.
Feeling sentimental tonight and thinking about how much I love that I can lean on Babblers so much.
Thank you all for so much support over what feels like the same thing over and over again. I feel lucky to have found this place.
Daisy
Posted by muffled on January 5, 2006, at 23:59:08
In reply to ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg?, posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:09:19
Posted by Tamar on January 6, 2006, at 19:35:09
In reply to ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg?, posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:09:19
> Seems like you guys are pretty quiet? Holiday stuff? I hope you are all doing well. And anyone else I missed.
Fairly busy with hospital things. Mother-in-law still very unwell. Every day she heals a little more... But she's not out of danger yet.
> Feeling sentimental tonight and thinking about how much I love that I can lean on Babblers so much.
I love it too. It's been nice to be here for a little while, though I don't know when I'll be able to get near the computer again.
> Thank you all for so much support over what feels like the same thing over and over again. I feel lucky to have found this place.
> DaisyThank you too. (((((Daisy)))))
Tamar
Posted by littleone on January 7, 2006, at 18:14:48
In reply to ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg?, posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:09:19
You must have read my mind daisy. I had just been about to ask how they were.
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 8, 2006, at 10:42:07
In reply to ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg?, posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:09:19
Thanks so much for thinking of, and asking about-me. I do try to read and follow all the long-term posters' experiences in therapy. I feel so glad when things go better, and can definitely empathize when the going is really hard.
For the past year, I have really been doing better in real life, but the sessions with my analyst are painful beyond belief. Having an ego state disorder, I had, at least partly, dissociated myself from the pain of my earlier experiences. I knew what had happened, but I was kind of automatically shielding myself from the suffering they had caused me as a child. Our work together has been to reconnect with those emotions, and for those ego states to begin to understand that they can have a good, new, healing experience with my analyst. It's pretty slow going! I'd have to say that right now, I know I am better- I just hurt more!
When therapy is this intense, very intense things happen between us. To give an example, one particularly bad day, I came in and lay down on the couch; before I knew it, I was lying curled up on my side, not having said a word. He said, "the amount of pain I'm feeling from you is nearly unbearable for me, so i know it's even worse for you. It feels pre-verbal, so perhaps words shouldn't be our first way of communicating right now. Can you show me with your body what it is like? I sat up, and he commented very gently on the tears streaming down my face, the high, squeaky tone of my voice (when I did manage to get a few words out), the sadness in my eyes, and the fact that I was hugging my knees and shoulders. These were all very gentle, simple phrases, but with a lot of caring in them.I am sure this was an infant ego-state, and it did feel so understood that the pain had lessened a lot by the end of the session. Of course, no-one can take away the pain of what happened so long ago, but it is so wonderful and comforting to feel truly heard and understood. This is pretty much what we have been doing, day by day, and I have felt that it's kind of a "downer" to post about it here. But maybe not- after all, there are simple, common threads running thrtough our own unique experiences.
Now that I have so much better emotional access to these ego states, he suggested that it might be a good time to have several EMDR sessions. I'm going for the first one (to a different therapist who specializes in that) next Tuesday. I am really encouraged by what people have posted here- and hope I can do the same!
Thank you for asking about me, Daisy- that was so caring and sweet of you.
Posted by antigua on January 8, 2006, at 15:18:44
In reply to Re: ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg? » daisym, posted by Pfinstegg on January 8, 2006, at 10:42:07
Good luck with the EMDR. I did it and it helped me get some things out--feelings mostly, which was what I needed.
antigua
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 8, 2006, at 15:34:10
In reply to Pfinstegg, posted by antigua on January 8, 2006, at 15:18:44
I'm glad it helped you too- I didn't remember that you were one of the people who had done it. It's going to be what yours was- dealing with intense feelings. Thanks, Antigua.
Posted by LittleGirlLost on January 10, 2006, at 14:30:15
In reply to ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg?, posted by daisym on January 5, 2006, at 21:09:19
awwww (((((Daisy)))) thanks for thinking of me.
To be honest, I'm not doing too well. Kinda giving up, but not - if that makes sense.
I just don't know how much more my heart can take. The intense feelings for my therapist, the fear and anxiety when I leave each time, and my job relocation which has been absolutely awful. It's too much for my heart to bear.
And I have another headache! I've been getting headaches every day.
I'm afraid to say too much more.
lgl
Posted by littleone on January 10, 2006, at 14:51:51
In reply to Re: ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg? » daisym, posted by LittleGirlLost on January 10, 2006, at 14:30:15
Hi there :) I'm glad you felt safe enough to check in with us. If you can, I'd love to hear more from you.
Sorry to hear you're not doing so well. It can be really tough to keep going sometimes.
I find that those feelings are the worst when I lose all hope. When I can't see that things will improve. When I can't see that things will ever be better. Once or twice I've asked my T to tell me how things will improve, what that will look like, how it will feel, if he really does believe it will get better. And when he replies with such conviction, it helps me a lot. Can you ask your T to give you some hope?
You might have already said this previously (but I forget stuff a lot), but what does your T say about your intense feelings for her? What sort of things does she say you should do to help with them or cope with them? I know you check in with her fairly often, but I forget what else you do.
Posted by littleone on January 12, 2006, at 0:02:47
In reply to Re: ShortE? Tamar? LittleGirlLost? Pfinstegg? » daisym, posted by Pfinstegg on January 8, 2006, at 10:42:07
> For the past year, I have really been doing better in real life, but the sessions with my analyst are painful beyond belief.
I can hear in your post that you are in a more painful place than the last time you posted. I'm sorry to hear that. But I am glad you poked your head up to update us. I love seeing your name on the board.
> When therapy is this intense, very intense things happen between us. To give an example, one particularly bad day, I came in and lay down on the couch; before I knew it, I was lying curled up on my side, not having said a word. He said, "the amount of pain I'm feeling from you is nearly unbearable for me, so i know it's even worse for you. It feels pre-verbal, so perhaps words shouldn't be our first way of communicating right now. Can you show me with your body what it is like? I sat up, and he commented very gently on the tears streaming down my face, the high, squeaky tone of my voice (when I did manage to get a few words out), the sadness in my eyes, and the fact that I was hugging my knees and shoulders. These were all very gentle, simple phrases, but with a lot of caring in them.I am sure this was an infant ego-state, and it did feel so understood that the pain had lessened a lot by the end of the session.
That feels like such a special moment. I understand how different it feels to actually have someone pay attention to us and see how we're hurting and to listen (with more than just their ears, listen with their internal radar) and to show us so tenderly that they understand. Sometimes I wonder if that is a special therapy experience or if normal kids in healthy families really have that experience every day.
I love hearing your therapy stories. They are so touching. And I love your analyst. I'm so glad you have him to help you.
> This is pretty much what we have been doing, day by day, and I have felt that it's kind of a "downer" to post about it here. But maybe not- after all, there are simple, common threads running thrtough our own unique experiences.
Not a downer at all. Touching. And there's always something in there to think about.
> Now that I have so much better emotional access to these ego states, he suggested that it might be a good time to have several EMDR sessions. I'm going for the first one (to a different therapist who specializes in that) next Tuesday. I am really encouraged by what people have posted here- and hope I can do the same!Are you worried at all? I feel threatened just at the thought of opening up feelings, but then you've done a lot more work on that than what I have. I'm glad you're in a safe enough place within yourself to be able to take this step. I'm sure you will get a lot from the experience.
I'm sending you warm thoughts to help you along on Tuesday. Will you let us know how you go?
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 1:16:40
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg, posted by littleone on January 12, 2006, at 0:02:47
Thank you, Littleone! That was so warm and sensitive of you to respond to my post the way you did. Sometimes, absolutely wonderful things happen on Psychobabble! Of course- not always, as we've seen recently.
What happened with the EMDR therapist was unexpected. She's trained as an analyst, too, but no longer does it. She wanted me to develop better self-comforting skills before considering EMDR- which we may never do- (it's up to her). Instead, we did guided imagery- of times, or with people with whom I felt really safe, and, in her phrase, "at the top of my game". What was so interesting to me was that when I got that image in mind, she asked me to retain it, and then tell her what I was feeling in all the parts of my body. Somehow, concentrating on the bodily feelings deepened the sense of safety even more, and also has made it easy to recall that state of mind and body to place alongside all the painful things I'm dealing with in the analysis. I can use it in the sessions- not to eliminate the painful things, but to keep both parts of me active simultaneously. Otherwise, I was sometimes completely overcome with fear and pain- so I do really know what you are talking about. Sometimes, things are really more than we can bear, or make use of to help ourselves get better.We can just get overwhelmed! I really like what this new therapist does! It sounds pretty simple, but who cares? The two analysts share information freely (I gave permission), and I honestly think it helps not just me, but my analyst also. He's tremendously kind and sensitive, and I think the painfulness of our work has been hard on him at times. Now he's got a colleague for support and understanding, and it's someone he really respects. This new analyst, who is raising a large family, apparently wanted to find something helpful to do which wouldn't take up all her time right now, So I guess you could call her an "analytic helper"- for when the analysis just gets too tough!
Thank you for responding- that was dear of you.
Posted by annierose on January 12, 2006, at 8:48:34
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » littleone, posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 1:16:40
It sounds like you had a wonderful experience with this new phase of your therapy. That's an interesting question, "With whom do you feel really safe?" ... where my mind takes me is sometimes a curious thing.
Your analysis is building a wonderful support network for you and him! Do you still go to the art therapist?
I know that sensation when you can pick up on other people's moods before they speak --- the energy we give out is telling. I know my T can pick up on my mood before I say anything, and I can feel her mood as well. These relationships we develop with our therapists are pretty special.
I'm so glad that the EMDR therapist was such a positive experience. Developing better self-comforting skills is something we all need.
Posted by antigua on January 12, 2006, at 9:32:24
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » littleone, posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 1:16:40
For me, the first part of EMDR was to find a place where I felt safe and comfortable. This was so once we got into the EMDR, the T would bring me back to this place when I got upset or before time was up. It worked well for me. It was a safety net, because so many feelings can pour forth during a session that you do need to have a safe place to return to.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by daisym on January 12, 2006, at 11:56:57
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » littleone, posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 1:16:40
Did she work with different age states to determine what felt safe for them? I have found that what the youngest part needs and wants (the talisman and the stuffed animal to sleep with) is NOT what the 13 year old wants. She wants music and passages from her favorite book. (No touching) And as an adult, I tend to think of myself holding my newborn, a time when I felt I could conquer the world and then some.
I think support for the analyst is a great idea. As we touch in on my anger, I've been cruel to my therapist. He says it does sting, but he can take it. I'm pretty destroyed to discover I can be so hurtful to someone I care about so deeply. I know he takes care of himself but extra support would relieve some of my worrying.
I hope it continues to go well.
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 15:33:05
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » Pfinstegg, posted by annierose on January 12, 2006, at 8:48:34
Thank you for your wonderful understanding and support, Annie. I am still amazed how the new therapist was able to instill a sort of automatic self-comforting mechanism in me. Before, I would find myself reminding myself to comfort my parts; now the one simple thing we did in our first session is just THERE- inside and comforting all the time. I told my analyst today how amazed I was, and he said that she knew a lot of the newest neuroscience, as well as a lot about ego states, and was very much respected in the analytic community. I am really stunned, as what she did seemed so simple, and yet it helped a lot.
I stopped the art therapy for the time being, as it's really a lot, time-wise, and financially, to have THREE therapies going on at the same time. The art therapy was very helpful, though- a lot of shocking, unconscious things seemed to keep turning up on paper, whether I wanted them to or not! If there was a difficulty, it was that the art therapist was not so well trained to contain and process what came up as the analysts are.
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 15:36:05
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » Pfinstegg, posted by antigua on January 12, 2006, at 9:32:24
Thanks, Antigua! I must be just at the first stage of the whole process. Did you do the EMDR just a few times, or do you do it from time to time, as you need it?
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 15:43:10
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » Pfinstegg, posted by daisym on January 12, 2006, at 11:56:57
Hi Daisy! No, we didn't get into all the parts as yet. She asked me to choose an age, and I chose five. Then we worked with what the five-year old wanted. I feel as if the other parts are watching to see if it's something good that they would like to be involved in.
Anger is such a tough problem. I have been feeling a tremendous amount of it towards my analyst, too. He is wonderful and very skilled about handling it, but sometimes I do feel that I have really hurt him- not that he would say so. I think the EMDR therapist may have come on the scene when she was most needed!
Posted by antigua on January 13, 2006, at 8:11:17
In reply to EMDR » antigua, posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 15:36:05
I did EMDR for about six months, until it got too confusing having two Ts. I'd see my EMDR T on Tuesday and regular one on Wednesday and I would spend more than half my session filling her in on what happened in EMDR. Like your art T, my EMDR T was not as well trained in dealing w/my emotions. I felt the emotions were coming out in EMDR but not in regular therapy. It just got too confusing for me, so I cut back to my regular T for the time being. I would go again if I thought it was helpful. I'm still blocked about certain traumas and I had gotten to the point where nothing else was coming out in EMDR.
But, like I said, I would consider going back if the circumstances warranted it.
Good luck,
antigua
Posted by littlegirllost on January 13, 2006, at 11:48:15
In reply to Re: Intense feelings for T » LittleGirlLost, posted by littleone on January 10, 2006, at 14:51:51
> Hi there :) I'm glad you felt safe enough to check in with us. If you can, I'd love to hear more from you.
~*~ Thanks, I appreciate that. I always feel like a burden and struggle with feeling accepted, so I tend to stay quiet. Though I also want to mention to you and anyone else that my email is always open.
> Sorry to hear you're not doing so well. It can be really tough to keep going sometimes.
>
> I find that those feelings are the worst when I lose all hope. When I can't see that things will improve. When I can't see that things will ever be better. Once or twice I've asked my T to tell me how things will improve, what that will look like, how it will feel, if he really does believe it will get better. And when he replies with such conviction, it helps me a lot. Can you ask your T to give you some hope?~*~ I like that idea and maybe I can try it... if I remember. I find that as soon as I walk into her office, I feel better (or at least forget how bad things really are)... sorta like taking a klonopin. :)
> You might have already said this previously (but I forget stuff a lot), but what does your T say about your intense feelings for her?
~*~ Well, I don't actually tell her most of them. Basically I just tell her how hard it is to leave. I think she can read between the lines about the rest, but there's just so much, and I'm embarassed and judge myself and my thoughts/feelings very harshly.
> What sort of things does she say you should do to help with them or cope with them? I know you check in with her fairly often, but I forget what else you do.
~*~ Well she lets me call or email whenever I want, and surprisingly (or not) her rules about that are not as harsh as mine!
She has also given/let me borrow a little elephant statue she had on her shelf; so I can always hold that. The problem is, I don't know what more she CAN do. I'm thankful that I can call and stuff, so why do I still feel this way? :(lgl
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:50:33
In reply to Re: Intense feelings for T » littleone, posted by littlegirllost on January 13, 2006, at 11:48:15
Posted by littlegirllost on January 13, 2006, at 14:16:37
In reply to (((((((LGL))))) (nm) » littlegirllost, posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 11:50:33
Thanks (((Muffled)))
How are you?
Posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 20:02:58
In reply to Re: (((((((LGL))))) » muffled, posted by littlegirllost on January 13, 2006, at 14:16:37
> Thanks (((Muffled)))
> How are you?
***Like so many these days, I'm struggling. Why do we have to struggle so? I am resisting taking my klonopin, but that being said, maybe I will take it right now.
Hope things ok with you.
Thanks.
Muffled
Posted by LittleGirlLost on January 15, 2006, at 8:04:56
In reply to Re: (((((((LGL))))) » littlegirllost, posted by muffled on January 13, 2006, at 20:02:58
Posted by littleone on January 15, 2006, at 23:47:01
In reply to Re: Pfinstegg » littleone, posted by Pfinstegg on January 12, 2006, at 1:16:40
To hear the change in your voice (words?) is just amazing. You sound so positive now. I’m so glad the EMDR therapist was helpful and seems so nice too. It was really interesting to read about your experience.
Would you mind sharing a bit more about what you felt in all the parts of your body? I have a lot of trouble being tuned in to my body. I can tell that when I’m stressed/angry/upset I get a lot of tension and tightness in between my shoulder blades and I frown or furrow my brow a lot, so I feel tension in my head. But they are both pretty strong feelings. I can’t really pick up more subtle ones. And I don’t have a clue what bodily feelings I have when I feel relaxed or safe. Don’t you feel nothing when you’re relaxed?
I know it’s been a little while since you posted your post. Are you still using her techniques during your sessions with your analyst? Does he remind you to use them?
I’m really surprised how much this has helped you to not feel overwhelmed. I’ve read about guided imagery before and tried it a little myself, but it never seems to go very well. I think I’m really bad at it myself and would need assistance to try it. Maybe I get too anxious to focus. I’m not sure. Did you ever try it yourself before seeing this lady?
I must admit I found it a little scary to think that sessions have been hard on your T. Is that something you’ve been sensing for a while? Doesn’t that interfere with your work, like you don’t want to burden him further or you want to spare him? I’m glad he’s got an understanding ear in your “analytic helper”.
This all sounded so promising. I hope it continues to go well for you.
Posted by littleone on January 15, 2006, at 23:50:04
In reply to Re: Intense feelings for T » littleone, posted by littlegirllost on January 13, 2006, at 11:48:15
> ~*~ Thanks, I appreciate that. I always feel like a burden and struggle with feeling accepted, so I tend to stay quiet. Though I also want to mention to you and anyone else that my email is always open.
You remind me a lot of me. I’m sorry it takes me so long to reply. I find posting hard and usually have to let things percolate a bit before responding. It’s no reflection on you. I like talking to you. And thanks for the email offer. That is very sweet. I know I was upset about getting no babblemails, but it’s probably for the best. I get so antsy and do a runner when people get close to me. I think I would find babblemails too intimate if that makes sense. On the boards I can hide better, just one of many.
> ~*~ I like that idea and maybe I can try it... if I remember. I find that as soon as I walk into her office, I feel better (or at least forget how bad things really are)... sorta like taking a klonopin. :)
I so understand what you mean. How do they do that? Is it special air in their office? Or subliminal messages emitted in the waiting room? It’s almost like I’m trained to react to his voice.
Also, you probably shouldn’t put your safety clause in there of “if I remember”. That gives you an out, so it’s like you’re giving yourself permission to forget and you don’t have to commit to it. Therapy is all about taking risks and seeing what happens. Scary stuff, I know. I find just committing to tell just as scary as the telling itself. And if remembering really is a problem, write it down. I know it gets said all the time, but it really does help. You don’t even have to write out the whole thing. If you talk to your T okay, then just writing one word to remind you is enough.
> ~*~ Well, I don't actually tell her most of them. Basically I just tell her how hard it is to leave. I think she can read between the lines about the rest, but there's just so much, and I'm embarassed and judge myself and my thoughts/feelings very harshly.
>
> ~*~ Well she lets me call or email whenever I want, and surprisingly (or not) her rules about that are not as harsh as mine!
> She has also given/let me borrow a little elephant statue she had on her shelf; so I can always hold that. The problem is, I don't know what more she CAN do. I'm thankful that I can call and stuff, so why do I still feel this way? :(I understand. And I do remember the elephant. That was sweet.
I’m not sure if this is a problem for you or not, but I know I have problems holding on to my T. I can’t remember what he looks or sounds like. Sometimes he’s so far away from me I wonder if he was someone I made up. I just can’t stay connected to him. I know sometimes it was bad to leave him because I could already feel him disappearing. It even felt like he was leaving me (rather than me walking away) which brought up abandonment fears.
Is any of that like what you experience? If not, maybe it would help to write out (even if it’s just for yourself, not your T at first) what leaving her feels like for you. What thoughts you have. Free associate a bit about what could be causing any fear/anger/sadness you’re feeling. Remember that this won’t just be about your T. It’s probably also related to someone/something from your past. Understanding is the first step towards healing.
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