![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 17 to 41 of 68. Go back in thread:
Posted by fairywings on May 17, 2006, at 9:55:06
In reply to I feel so sh*tty today, like a loser, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2006, at 10:14:06
I'm really sorry you're feeling so bad (((((happyflower)))) You've been through a lot, maybe you haven't worked through things that were lingering inside. I hope you're T can help you.
I'm just so proud of everything you've accomplished lately. You've done so much, and you've got the big run coming up soon.
I hope you get to feeling better - call your T if you need to.
fw
Posted by Poet on May 17, 2006, at 10:16:41
In reply to Re: I feel so sh*tty today, like a loser » happyflower, posted by fairywings on May 17, 2006, at 9:55:06
Hi Happyflower,
I'm convinced I was born with no self esteem, my T tells me that is impossible, but I know otherwise. I am not comfortable in my own skin and can't remember ever feeling otherwise.
It might help you to make a list of things that you do good. Even if it's two or three. Start with I can play the trumpet. That is something that not everybody can do. It's something to be proud of.
I wish your T could see you before next week. I'm sorry you're feeling so sh*tty. Wish I could wave that magic wand and give you self esteem, but if that worked, I'd have done it to myself long ago.
Poet
Posted by orchid on May 17, 2006, at 13:24:59
In reply to Re: Couldnt have said it better Larry. Amazing post !! » orchid, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2006, at 21:13:38
One thing I did which really really helped me improve my self esteem was to look at others around me in a good look.
Then I realized I wasn't the only one who was F'd up :-) Everyone else around me was even more so. Needless to say, that was the single biggest improvement to my self esteem :-) You are as good as anyone on this planet could be. And if someone F'd up person (atleast inside) deserves to win the Oscar or the Noble or have millions of dollars, then so are you. !!
Posted by tryingtobewise on May 17, 2006, at 15:26:32
In reply to I feel so sh*tty today, like a loser, posted by happyflower on May 16, 2006, at 10:14:06
Hey Happy Flower,
I'm sorry you're having a tough time. I happen to be a big fan of "acting as if". It may sound like an over-simplification, and to a degree it is, but the philosophy behind it is if you act the way you want to be (i.e. confident and self assured), eventually you will begin to feel that way on the inside too.
I have heard the "act as if" approach at church and in therapy. "Do the behaviors and the feelings will follow." I also believe 12 step programs endorse the act as if philosophy as well.
Anyway, all my best to you!
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 16:03:31
In reply to Re: I feel so sh*tty today, like a loser, posted by tryingtobewise on May 17, 2006, at 15:26:32
> Hey Happy Flower,
>
> I'm sorry you're having a tough time. I happen to be a big fan of "acting as if". It may sound like an over-simplification, and to a degree it is, but the philosophy behind it is if you act the way you want to be (i.e. confident and self assured), eventually you will begin to feel that way on the inside too.
>
> I have heard the "act as if" approach at church and in therapy. "Do the behaviors and the feelings will follow." I also believe 12 step programs endorse the act as if philosophy as well.
>
> Anyway, all my best to you!There's a saying I like, that encapsulates the concepts nicely...."You can't think your way into a new way of acting, but you can act your way into a new way of thinking."
Lar
Posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 16:27:53
In reply to Re: I feel so sh*tty today, like a loser » tryingtobewise, posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 16:03:31
I told him how bad I was feeling and I didn't think there was any hope for me. I was in tears and I said I didn't think therapy was working for me and I didn't think there was anything that was going to help me. I told him I called him because I have nobody else to call. I had been crying for hours before I called.
Well he called back and I talked to him. He didn't even mention my pathedic emotional call at all. He didn't even act like he cared at all, he said he had an opening in a week but I couldn't take it because I have classes. So he said then I will have to wait for a cancellation. I feel crushed, I just want to stay in my dark hole forever and I am quiting therapy because it isn't helping me anymore.
Posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 17:50:50
In reply to I called him today and left a message, posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 16:27:53
I called again and left a message that I didn't want to come in anymore and that I give up with myself and to cancel my next appointment.
Posted by LadyBug on May 17, 2006, at 17:53:32
In reply to I called him today and left a message, posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 16:27:53
Wow Happyflower, I'm shocked at his responce. My T would never ignore my pain and tell me I'd have to suffer it till next week. She'd stay after hours to see me or at least make an arrangement to call me in the evening until I was feeling better about things. I'd feel just like you do right now. I don't blame you for wanting to quit. I don't want to go to my appointment tomorrow night because all we end up talking about is the termoil I'm in. I end up crying and wanting to die. And it got scary last week. I wanted to end it all. I know it isn't her, or the therapy process either. How is therapy going to help me at this point in my life? It just makes me want to curl up on my therapist's lap and have her protect me from the hurt I have and help me heal completly. I want her to take away my pain, just love me, take me home, and she can't! But I hold on to this wish that she will!!! I keep going, hoping sub-consiciously that she will love me to death! It's so hard. I'm so sorry you are in so much pain and he didn't help you. I'm here for you, I know it's not the same, but I do understand and care a bunch.
(((((((Happyflower))))))) Keep in touch here ok! I'll be thinking and wondering how you are so let me know ok? thanks
LadyBug
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 17, 2006, at 20:59:09
In reply to I called him today and left a message, posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 16:27:53
Happy, I've been in just the same situation as you are now. There was an initial scary but thrilling connection, which made me feel full of hope and good possibilities, followed by my deepest feelings- a terrible fear of aloneness and abandonment (mother issues). My therapist doesn't try to deal with those with phone calls or extra sessions, but we do both work very hard on it during the sessions I have scheduled. But I do have three a week, so I'm able to manage between them. You've had such a great relationship with your therapist with all the more adult parts of your self- that is so wonderful. But now a deeper, much lonelier and sadder part is emerging. I hope you won't give up therapy- I'd say that you really need it more frequently right now. Can you talk this out with him? He has always sounded like he's really able to listen and understand what your real needs are.
Posted by LadyBug on May 18, 2006, at 1:01:27
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message, posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 17:50:50
I've done exactly what you did. I'm such a sucker for my T I've always returned. I wish we could all move on in our lives without our Therapist's. Could a big hug help you? Cuz I'm sending you one!
((((((((((((((((((((((((((Happyflower)))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hang in there and be sure to tie a knot at the end of your rope!
LadyBug
Posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 2:13:05
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message, posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 17:50:50
I'm so sad for you. I've done exactly what you did so many times and I would ask myself what I was hoping for -- did I need my therapist to chase me and "prove" he cared or did I really need some space to see why I still needed therapy. Somehow we always worked it through, sometimes he would chase me and sometimes I'd realize that i do need therapy, I'm not finished yet.
The relationship you have with your therapist is complicated and I think it leads to these melt downs. We go through a tough patch and they handle it and we throw more curves and they handle it and we even tell them off, and they handle it. So living without them becomes really painful, because we want them to keep us safe within their understanding. We are finally experiencing something we never have and I think we are simultaneously soothed and torn up by this.
Therapy is very hard work and gets very painful. Taking a break can be a good thing, if done for the right reasons. Talking it through can help.
Good luck with this.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 7:44:11
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message » happyflower, posted by LadyBug on May 17, 2006, at 17:53:32
> Wow Happyflower, I'm shocked at his responce.
Well, the fact is, I'm not. I fear that this particular therapeutic relationship has had all, or most, of its therapeutic potential squeezed out of it.
The male/female dynamic is like that elephant in the room. But in this case it's standing right between them, and neither can see the other any longer. Instead, each sees their own responses to the other, projected onto the elephant.
HF, I fear you need to find a new therapist. One who will help you get over the old one. I'm truly sorry.
Sadly,
LarP.S. I hope I'm categorically wrong. And if I am, your telling me so will have been worth it, to me.
Posted by fairywings on May 18, 2006, at 8:53:41
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF?, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 7:44:11
((((HF))))
I'm sorry you were feeling so bad and he couldn't get you in. Maybe it is time to at least look at the possibility of a new T - even if you continue to see your T while you're looking. Leaving is heart wrenching, you've worked so well with your T. I hope you won't feel like you can't call him and tell him you need to see him if you decide you want to go back and try to work through everything you've been going through lately.
Like Pfinstegg, my T doesn't make calls in between appts., he wants to do the work w/in the appt. when we're face to face. It's hard when I want him to call back, but I understand why he doesn't.
I hope you don't give up on therapy all together. You've come so far.
fw
Posted by rubenstein on May 18, 2006, at 11:07:06
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message, posted by happyflower on May 17, 2006, at 17:50:50
Happyflower, I am so sorry you are in pain and that your therapist isn't helping matters. I don't know what I can do for you but just know that I am thinking about you. Please stay safe.
rachel
Posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 13:56:02
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF?, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 7:44:11
****The male/female dynamic is like that elephant in the room. But in this case it's standing right between them, and neither can see the other any longer. Instead, each sees their own responses to the other, projected onto the elephant.****
Hmmm...maybe. I think the pain here (not to speak for HF) is about wanting validation and support from someone we trust to gently tell us the truth but not just drop it at that. They help us explore the "why" of our behavior and tell us that despite our current shortfallings, we still have potential. That THEY believe in our potential, even if we don't.
It is amazing to sit near someone who believes in you, and who helps you believe in yourself. It makes you want to sit near them and draw comfort and strength for hours on end. It makes you run to them when your belief starts to wane...and it is easy to get these feelings of need for strength and reassurance mixed up with or in with, sexualized feelings of need and want.
I think women often find that when they need someone to be intimate with, man or woman, sexual feelings come into play. The primary need maybe for comfort, or to feel that you "matter" to someone else, but these feelings have a powerful physical component. How many times have we read here about wanting to be hugged or give a hug? It might not be sexual but it sure is physical.
My own battle is with the maternal nature of my needs for my therapist. He is a man, I'm a woman. That dynamic has come into play, but I guess he didn't allow it to remain an elephant in the room. Talking about it, calling it out and figuring out how to really name what I want has been painful but necessary. I think HF has really, honestly started this process of figuring out what she needs from her therapist. And it is a painful process because just because you can name the need doesn't mean you get it met, by your therapist or anyone else, necessarily. But knowing what your needs are, for validation, for example, is the first step to finding a way to get them met. In therapy and definitely, outside of therapy. It is the ultimate "love/hate" relationship, I think. For me, I hate the process yet love my therapist.
All that said, if my therapist didn't have an appointment time, he'd do a phone session. But I'm well aware this is unusual, and he happens to be good on the phone.
Just my two cents.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 15:41:01
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Larry Hoover, posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 13:56:02
> ****The male/female dynamic is like that elephant in the room. But in this case it's standing right between them, and neither can see the other any longer. Instead, each sees their own responses to the other, projected onto the elephant.****
>
> Hmmm...maybe. I think the pain here (not to speak for HF) is about wanting validation and support from someone we trust to gently tell us the truth but not just drop it at that.My gut is telling me this one has gone awry. I don't know better words for it than what I used. The therapist man let things go too far. It was his duty not to, but I think it did.
Lar
Posted by orchid on May 18, 2006, at 18:14:46
In reply to Re: I called him today and left a message--HF? » Daisym, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 15:41:01
For anything. It needs to be worked out and talked through - and if terminated abruptly or quit abruptly, it would lead to intense pain down the road.
HF - I don't think it is a right decision to quit. And that too not so suddenly. IT will leave you in immense confusion down the line. Please don't do that.
Your T needs to understand you little more I think and understand your ups and downs. Maybe telling him more about your feelings will help him realize. Kind of be like 100% honest (like you are here in this board) with him about your feelings for him and about everything in all details.. Then perhaps he might be able to really understand the full depth of the issue. He is probably still not realizing the full extent and thinks of it superficially.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 19:00:26
In reply to Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer » Larry Hoover, posted by orchid on May 18, 2006, at 18:14:46
> For anything. It needs to be worked out and talked through - and if terminated abruptly or quit abruptly, it would lead to intense pain down the road.
I'm sorry if I gave the impression that's what I was suggesting. It certainly is not what I had in mind. But I am not convinced this situation is fixable.
There's still lots to talk out, yet, but getting it back onto a therapeutic track would be a lot of work....that's my concern.
Lar
Posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
In reply to Re: Abrupt termination and quitting is not the answer » orchid, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 19:00:26
Just a quick note, he didn't call me back today after I left a message for him yesterday that I was quiting. I think he is glad and relieved. I didn't expect him to call me because I don't think he really cares and is probably wanting to give up on me anyways. Maybe I can get some free counceling, since i am a college student now. Maybe I don't need him anyways.
I will respond more later to each of you, thank you for your support during a very hard time I am having. I really don't have very many postitive thoughts about my T at the moment. I can workout at the university for free, so I don't need to look at my T anymore. I can just fall off the edge of the world, and he won't even know I am gone. Maybe that is what is best, for me to just disapear, like he never knew I exhisted.
I don't plan on calling him back if for some reason he calls (which i doubt). I really don't want to see him anymore and i don't want him in my life anymore, he shitted on me, just like everyone else has who has meant anything to me in my life. :-(
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 22:28:37
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
{{{{{{{{unhappyflower}}}}}}}}
Posted by madeline on May 19, 2006, at 7:47:26
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
Oh happyflower I'm so sorry this happened. When therapists are good, they are very very good, but when they are bad, they are very very harmful.
I don't have any words of wisdom to add here, but I am thinking about you and loving you across cyber space.
Be good to yourself.
Maddie
Posted by milly on May 19, 2006, at 11:04:02
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
Oh Happyflower ((((((HF)))))))))))
I hate this has hurt you so badly I was so worried it would end messily you deserve so much better
milly
Posted by B2chica on May 19, 2006, at 15:45:38
In reply to hey, posted by happyflower on May 18, 2006, at 21:01:39
oh (((((((((((((happyflower)))))))))))
i am so sorry he did this.
you are hurting so much and just need help. why can't he just be what you need. i'm sorry he can't.
but you know, maybe you are right about being able to get counseling from school now that your a student. i think that's a great idea.
-but that doesn't make it hurt any less.sorry, don't really know what wise words to say here, kinda dead in the head lately but i REALLY want you to know that i am here and cyber hugs to you dear one. (((((((((((((((((HF))))))))))))))))))
please be good to yourself right now. maybe get some super chocolate chunky monkey or something??
cares
b2c.
Posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 14:49:33
In reply to Re: I feel so sh*tty today, like a loser » happyflower, posted by Larry Hoover on May 16, 2006, at 11:24:45
You're a wise man.
Posted by susan47 on May 20, 2006, at 15:19:28
In reply to Re: I called my T today, can't get in till next week » happyflower, posted by Larry Hoover on May 16, 2006, at 22:11:38
> > So can you develop a good self esteem later in life or is it something you acuire during your childhood?
>
> I just got one very recently. Still has that new car smell. I'm 49.
>
> LarAre you still there? Larry I'm 49 next month ... ew yuck gross, but good too, because I have that new car smell too, some days and it is sooooo nice... and we're the same age, isn't that awful? That we couldn't come to it before....but let's keep what we have and add more and more onto that, and
HAPPYFLOWER I am so so sorry I didn't come here sooner and see your thread, because I relate soooo well to what you are feeling right now and DON'T Do Not let it drive you to distraction, talk to us sweetie, tell us and tell that damn psychologist exactly but EXACTLY where to find you, no holds barred, and tell that wonderful foolish man what he doesn't yet know, in spite of what his profession teaches him, and that is that you are a person with depths as deep as his and you are just as damn worthy of his trust as he is of yours .. and so far, you have shown more honesty and integrity than his profession or his ego allows him to show you ....
That's what I did. But I was bad, very very bad because I got addicted to making telephone calls and leaving messages on his machine or his voicemail or what-the-hell-ever ... a person with an imbalance of compassion and understanding versus professional pride would see that in a very negative, draining way and perhaps would act upon this ... and whatever ... I don't know their side either, any more than he would have known mine.
But I do know this.
I was full of integrity in my honesty.
And so are you, Happyflower,
and that isn't easy.
That's the hardest, most difficult job of all.
And you're taking it on.
And you be proud of yourself in your strength and your integrity, in the honesty of the pain you allow yourself to feel and show, but don't forget, in the end, that this man is a person too, and perhaps not the wisest, ane perhaps not seeing too clearly everything that could be seen ... Love yourself, HF.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.