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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 10:26:05
Background: I cannot experience happiness, joy or positive feelings. I cannot even anticipate feeling them, in the future, as I start to pull out of the big Depression.
Experimental Question:
Can an unexpected windfall (life-changing money, affirmation of my hard work and intelligence) make me feel happy?Alternatives:
If the good news makes me happy, there is hope for recovery from the big D.
If the good news does not make me happy, either it was not big enough (this can be ruled out); or, there is something constitutional that permits me from feeling anything but pain, despair, emptiness. (e.g. anhedonia)[disordered] Logic
A)If I feel happy upon hearing news, I am, and will continue to recoverB)If I do not feel happy, either I will have to be strong and have faith that one day, I will be able to experience something like joy
or
C)I decide that there is no current happiness, and I am even unable to anticipate future happiness. Doomed to a life of pain and conflict, I opt out.
Results:
Vacillating between B) and C) for the greater part of 48 hours, I have decided that the best solution is to minimize the current conflict by punishing myself. I thought of my relationships, and what they mean to me. I decided that relieving the pain and conflict was even more urgent than maintaining these relationships. I felt so relieved. I finally decided that it would be over. But, I was so incapacitated that I decided to wait until another day, when I would be more capable of ensuring success. I feel so much relief. I think I will continue to punish myself, to prolong the end, because every once in a while I think of B. I think of my husband and my parents. But, I think I have figured out a way to suffer, and still live, kind of. I've never felt so close to the end before. My current plan is not to eat anything. This will hopefully weaken me, until I cannot act on my ideations, yet satisfy the need to suffer, as I will essentially be killing myself very slowly. I know it's not a great solution, but it's all I could come up with. I don't want to be hospitalized. I either want to live or die, but stay out of the hospital.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 13:12:24
In reply to disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 10:26:05
I'm so sorry babblers, the above post is really disturbing. I'm trying to take it easy today to get past the crisis. I'm sorry to subject you to this. You don't deserve it.
sincere apologies,
llrrrpp
Posted by curtm on May 21, 2006, at 20:32:09
In reply to sorry for above post, posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 13:12:24
>> I'm so sorry babblers, the above post is really disturbing. I'm trying to take it easy today to get past the crisis. I'm sorry to subject you to this. You don't deserve it.
What you don't realize is that everything you say gives everyone an opportunity to reflect upon ourselves in your words. We would be at loss without them. It's that simple. Thanks for posting it. I didn't respond, but I did relate.
Curt
Posted by canadagirl on May 21, 2006, at 21:01:54
In reply to disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 10:26:05
Hi there llrrrpp,
I can tell you're really hurting. I posted to you on another thread asking what was happening and then I read this. All I can say is, hang on. Is there anything that would hold you back from hurting yourself, such as faith? Any sort of religious or spiritual life? Would you be wiling to call a crisis line such as 1-800-784-2433 or talk to somone if you feel desperate? Who would you talk to? (You mentioned in your post you don't want to eat, and you don't want to go to the hospital.)Keep hanging on. I wait for your response.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 21:18:13
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by canadagirl on May 21, 2006, at 21:01:54
I'm trying to screw up my courage to contact my therapist. I'm going to take my medicine in a little while which will make me sleepy, and when I wake up tomorrow, I'll go to his office and get this figured out. your kindness helps a lot. I'm in a lot of pain. All I have to say is, thank goodness the housewives are on tonight. they make for some good distracting. the Bree subplot is not helping much though..
Posted by madeline on May 21, 2006, at 21:20:18
In reply to disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 10:26:05
alright, enough already sweetie. From one scientist to another, there are somethings that the scientific method simply doesn't apply to.
A person's feelings is one of them. Our experiences are so subjective, all logic fails.
And you know what? That's okay. It's more than okay, it the way it should be.
So please let go of the logical approach that has kept you safe for so many years.
You can't THINK your way through this stuff, you have to FEEL your way through it.
Trust me on this one babe, I KNOW.
Posted by canadagirl on May 21, 2006, at 21:26:33
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 21, 2006, at 21:18:13
Good to hear you are thinking of contacting your T, and are going to get some sleep later on tonight. Let us know how it goes. And take care.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 5:45:57
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger » llrrrpp, posted by canadagirl on May 21, 2006, at 21:26:33
Well, I sent T an e-mail last night. Then I had dreams that I was going to be carted off to hang out with Bree and Hannibal Lecter in a lovely dank psych ward with brightlights and nasty male nurses. I kept on thinking the phone was going to ring at any minute and the worst thing is that it did ring at about midnight. (wrong number)
I hardly slept a wink, and it's only 5:30am and I'm up and I'm shaking. I must have been having some really bad dream when I woke up, because my heart was POUNDING. I don't know what it was about though.
I just reread my e-mail last night. It's pretty no-frills honest. It's the truth, and it's not exaggerated, but it's complete enough and sounds pretty serious. I think if I was a T and got this e-mail I'd do something right away. I guess I sent an e-mail because I know he won't check it until he goes to work. I don't even know if he works on mondays. I have all day though, my schedule is wide open. No appt. that's more important to me than the one that might save my life.
Well, I'm rambling, but what else can I do at 5:30 on monday morning. I'll go to a cafe later on and drink some T (no muffin for me, though. the hunger strike is working. I had a couple of peaches yesterday, and a glass of milk, because I didn't want to get leg cramps... still)
Your posts mean a lot to me. I started crying a few times when I read them. I hadn't even been able to cry, so the tears were a relief. I'm human, I can grieve for myself. And they help me know I'm not alone.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 8:05:50
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger » llrrrpp, posted by madeline on May 21, 2006, at 21:20:18
Maddie,
I can't feel this stuff yet. It's too much, and I don't know what I would do with intense emotion right now. The only thing left is my thoughts. I'm all alone with them, cognito ergo sum. It's how I know I'm alive. I agree with you that denial of feelings probably contributed to getting me in this mess, but right now I'm worried about the consequences of an emotional meltdown. I know where the feelings live. I also know that if I stir them up, a little probe here and there might be enough to cause a vast exothermic reaction, releasing much energy into the system. I'm not sure that the energy could be used for constructive purposes; I'm worried that it might destroy me. I'm pretty sensitive about recognizing the feelings, but I'm no good at figuring out where they come from, or what to do with them once they're exposed.
Posted by canadagirl on May 22, 2006, at 8:17:43
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 5:45:57
You've done a very brave thing in writing about your feelings in the email to your T, and also in posting them here. Your feelings are important. The distress you are in is very real. And being "no-frills honest" is all part of the process we all need to go through. (I have also read somewhere that tears have a healing compound in them. It's good to cry.)
I hope you are able to call your T's office and see if he is in today, if you don't get a response to the email you sent him. Again, I'm thinking of you, and let me know how you make out today, and if you can get the appt.
Posted by canadagirl on May 22, 2006, at 8:25:48
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger » llrrrpp, posted by canadagirl on May 22, 2006, at 8:17:43
P.S. I use the word "feelings" here; interchange it with "thoughts", as per your post to Madeline. (I'm not a good writer :)
> You've done a very brave thing in writing about your feelings in the email to your T, and also in posting them here. Your feelings are important. The distress you are in is very real. And being "no-frills honest" is all part of the process we all need to go through. (I have also read somewhere that tears have a healing compound in them. It's good to cry.)
>
> I hope you are able to call your T's office and see if he is in today, if you don't get a response to the email you sent him. Again, I'm thinking of you, and let me know how you make out today, and if you can get the appt.
>
Posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 8:51:22
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by canadagirl on May 22, 2006, at 8:25:48
I think you write really well!
It's clear, and comes from a good person, and that's the most important thing. I also think you are brave, because you are trying to help me. I don't think I could help someone who's in big trouble. I would be so paranoid that I would say the wrong thing, or be insensitive. But you seem confident, and caring. I thank you.I'm going to wait for T to e-mail me back. I don't want to be a burden, and we've never really discussed what to do in after-hours emergencies. He gave me a phone number I can call, a few weeks ago, but I'm not really sure how he feels about being on-duty over the weekend. Plus, I want to give him a chance to read the e-mail before I speak with him in person. I would likely make light of the whole situation if I had to describe it to him over the phone in 3 minutes. "Oh I guess it's nothing, I was just feeling really down this weekend, but I guess I'm going to be okay now, sorry to bother you. Click." I've always felt that I'm clearer and more organized in written than spoken communications. I guess that's why p-babble is such a good place for me.
i hope everyone has a better monday than me.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 10:42:39
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 8:51:22
Actually, monday's not so bad, so far. I'm super anxious, and I feel kinda weak and trembly, but I've also got this euphoria, which probably comes from the calorie restriction. All in all, could be much worse. And the weather's gorgeous. I had a protein shake for breakfast. Whey protein. I heard that's supposed to be good for my neurotransmitters. I'm thinking my T doesn't work on mondays, as I've not heard from him. I guess all hell's going to break lose tomorrow, instead of today. Goody. I guess I feel some relief that it's out of my hands. I know I could call him and get in touch that way, but I feel good now. I don't have the guts to call. I hate talking about this stuff, but over the phone is so difficult, becuase I can't tell how my conversational partner is reacting to what I'm saying. I don't think I know T well enough to figure out what makes him angry, what makes him pleased, what makes him sympathetic.
I also feel bad, because when I signed on for therapy about 2 months ago, I downplayed my symptoms because I was worried about the consequences if someone finds out how sick I am. So, I think T thought he was getting a student with mild depression and procrastination issues. Now look at the mess on his hands... hmmm
Posted by curtm on May 22, 2006, at 12:19:03
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 10:42:39
Sounds like you could use a smoothie right now:)
Very calming, sugar for nerves
Posted by canadagirl on May 22, 2006, at 12:58:14
In reply to Re: disordered thinking, part 2 trigger, posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 10:42:39
Dear llrrrpp,
You sound like I felt at one time, in your previous post. One thing I have learned (from Babble really well, and from my counselling...which was all online because I couldn't at that time bring myself to actually set foot in someone's office...)is that we DESERVE, MERIT, ARE WORTHY OF, the attention, consideration, and every bit of help we can possibly receive from our T's, counsellors, pdocs, and anyone else who is there to help us. I know it is hard to believe that at this time. But we really are. We have inherent worth. We might feel like that crumpled up old five dollar bill thrown aside to the ground. But that five dollar bill is still worth five dollars. It has inherent worth. Regardless of the state it might be in.
Posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 13:09:51
In reply to What is your flavor?, posted by curtm on May 22, 2006, at 12:19:03
Curt, you're going to laugh at me. I just recently discovered a new smoothie flavor. Courtesy of my chinese friend: Avocado. It's creamy and green and delicious (if you can get over the fact that you're drinking a freaking avocado)
Anything but mangos. They make me itchy.
Canadagirl,
I might be worth 5dollars, but I'm not sure that T will decide it's a good time to pick me up, all crumpled and dirty, off of an urban street covered with broken glass and doggydoo. I understand your point, but maybe I will be able to hang on 2 more days until the scheduled session. Days are fine, because I like my job (I work with my friends). It's the evenings that are rough, because I live alone for the most part, and then I get isolated and don't get the social feedback that I'm worth 5dollars, and that I have something to offer other people. If I think about my last crises, they were almost always during weekends or holidays when I just didn't give a cr@p to go out and make a playdate with friends.
Posted by canadagirl on May 22, 2006, at 13:42:11
In reply to Re: What is your flavor? also Cgirl, posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 13:09:51
Ok, hang in there.
Hey I think I have to stop writing ... isn't there some rule on this site something about not supposed to respond more than 3x? I am not sure about this. I'm still working my way around here. Let us know how everything works out in 2 days when you see your therapist.
Bye for now and take very good care in the meantime(before I get blocked for posting a lot, or something. LOL)
Posted by llrrrpp on May 22, 2006, at 19:02:39
In reply to Re: What is your flavor? also Cgirl » llrrrpp, posted by canadagirl on May 22, 2006, at 13:42:11
Hi CanadaGirl,
If you got blocked for being responsive, then there's no point to psycho-babble at all, is there?I'm feeling a lot better. I got some fresh air and good walk in this afternoon, and the colors seem brighter, somehow.
I just re-read my "i'm in crisis" e-mail to T. Oh my God. It's pretty dark. I know it's how I felt at the time, but there's going to be some fallout. WHY do I set myself up for this?? Funny how feeling better for even a few hours makes me want to sweep the whole thing under the rug. Depressed? who? me? ME? no! you've got the wrong llrrrpp. oh boy. the big D of the day is Denial, not Depression.
Don't take this as the law of the land, but I think 3-post-rule is three posts without interruptors, on the same topic? It's allowed, however to respond to people like this
llrrrpp responds to person1
llrrrpp responds to person2
llrrrpp responds to person3
llrrrpp responds to person4I'm taking care, CanadaGirl. kiss a maple leaf for me. llrrrpp
This is the end of the thread.
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