![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 42 to 66 of 66. Go back in thread:
Posted by ElaineM on January 16, 2007, at 10:30:17
In reply to Re: Jealousy, Seperateness, NewYrs, Now -long***Tr, posted by bil on January 14, 2007, at 15:08:41
Actually, yesterday he didn't even ask at all -- though I did mention my own feelings on some things throughout. He read out more of the passages from the book I let him borrow and he interjected memories from his childhood, how he can see some of the effects still now, what his family now thought/thinks of the alcoholism.... Again, he did well, but honestly I was already preoccupied, so I couldn't keep focus all the time. It's terrible, but sometimes he was just a hum outside my "bubble hearing". I'm usually not like that at all.
He's done with it now so I doubt we'll be talking about that anymore. The rest of our communications has been interesting. We spoke about the email I sent him asking him (again!) to tell his T about me or us (*bleck*) and was running all his reasons not to into the ground. I even told him that, "T's aren't there to "steal" your feelings, or dampen the ones that seem meaningful to you. I know you don't like the idea of being told what to do with me, but there's a huge difference between someone giving advice, and listening and discussing your feelings with you - the two can be done independantly you know." And then I said, "But come on, you know all this. Is there another reason why you're resisting this?"
It's all the same stuff though. We just argue in circles about this.
thanks again, bil
blove EL
Posted by ElaineM on January 16, 2007, at 10:34:45
In reply to Re: Jealousy, Seperateness, NewYrs, Now -long***TrigSH » ElaineM, posted by canadagirl on January 14, 2007, at 21:54:19
Thanks for the support CG. I'm kinda living by that advice right now. I just do my best with what I have, and try to not be too pissed off with myself at the things I don't do. Or don't think I *can* do. I just keep seeing if I can take more.
Always nice to hear from you.
blove el
Posted by ElaineM on January 16, 2007, at 11:07:27
In reply to El » ElaineM, posted by MidnightBlue on January 15, 2007, at 0:11:10
>>>>>>He is in a position of power because he IS a T.
That's something he's never understood. When we were talking back in the summer about his lack of confidence and shyness, and awkwardness he said he feels when doing sessions (all, not just mine) I said to him, "But you're the T! I guarantee most of your patients already think you're so much higher than them. Most clients I've know have always wanted their T to think highly of them back, and impress or please them." He said, "I don't think that's how it's been at all. I've never heard of that." I think he may have said that straight analysis was the exception (but I can't remember exactly).
I don't really like to think of what the age gap suggests -- its too devastating. (Though, maybe two or three months ago I thought about it all the time. Now, I just turn off those kind of thoughts cause I was driving myself crazy).
Actually, I thought you were gonna say that he was having a mid life crisis.
MB, your replies are never ill-stated. You're always checking up, and that's dear to me. I wish I had the faith and the strength to believe in something as beautiful as that quote you shared with me. I would love to feel the comfort of having faith in something - God, or fate, or anything else. But I've never had it. I think I came to learn that trusting in the potential goodness of the world, or others, got you beat down or worse.
About the only thing that I try and live by these days is the idea that a functioning body is too precious to waste. So I try to still fight any AN urges, and I try and do stuff on "good days" cause I never know how long it will last or if it will come back. Not anything big, just go to the store or commit to appointments, or something like that.
>>>>>>Humm I'm guessing some sort of "physical" test followup tomorrow? Post how it goes. I know it is hard for you to go to these appointments. Share your fears and pain with us, it is okay. Really it is.
Yes, something physical. I've been going back and forth (for awhile) about mentioning it, but I don't think it's something I want to talk about now. I think followup was the wrong word -- cause I only had it done yesterday, the results will take longer -- I should've just said the last of my meetings with this particular person. The first parts went well (interms of results) and it's likely that these last ones will be okay too. *knock on wood* I'm kinda afraid now that I just said that. I really REALLY hope it's okay. I hate waiting (but that's what I do).
I was debating whether to tell this seperate part, cause it's nothing definate and I could back out at the last second and worry it'd only frustrate or disappoint you all, but, this person who I has meeting with asked once more if I'd consider (at least) group therapy. I'd said NO the first two times she asked. But I said she could put me on the list this time. I'm really scared about that. But I agreed cause I was/am really scared...I don't know. I don't know if it will do any good, and am afraid it's just gonna upset me even more -- especially if nothing seems to come of it. But I'm on the list (which usually takes two or so months *sigh*). It's dumb but last night I was so stressed about it - wished I could turn back time and take it back. I don't know - I still have a long time to think about it. More waiting. But I'm already so incredibly nervous about it. Though I'm nervous about alot of things these days.
thanks for caring ((((MB))))
blove El
Posted by ElaineM on January 16, 2007, at 11:20:53
In reply to Re: One More For Elaine » ElaineM, posted by JeffSmith on January 15, 2007, at 10:25:52
>>>>>I dont have a shrink but still Im really not sure if "suggesting" to any client (especially if you have an ED) to lose weight/diet/exercise is really their place/job/ethical to do. Is it? Im really not sure and maybe Id have to hear how/ in what context it was said but it doesnt sound right.
Well, I have a physical problem (independant of the anorexia) that I've been struggling with for over a year now. During that time, my weight went up rather high. I've always wondered if the weight gain was making my other physical problems even worse. T said it could be worth a shot trying, plus he said that he couldn't lie and say that some people aren't just happier and feel better at lower weights. He said alot of people live highly functioning lives that way (not super-low, emaciated weight, just a manipulation of ones set-point -- which is hard to do for healthy people, but really not so hard when your mind is brainwashed from an ED) Anyways, long story short, he said I should try a diet and exercise plan (taking into account that I really can't exercise at all) and see if taking off some weight made any difference to my health.
I've always asked him never to lie to me, or feed me platitudes if he thought they didn't apply, so I'm glad that he was truthful and brought up the subject again. It was really difficult to hear, but I'm more accepting of it now. Just needed to get used to not being on the other end of the diet-adivce spectrum. It's always been others preaching, "please don't lose anymore weight!" or "you need to eat more" etc.
:-) Sorry, the eating-related short forms are so part of me that it never occurs to me that others may not know them.
But since you mentioned it, until I read Caraher's post I still had no idea what "DH" meant, though I've read it about a million times. I figured the H meant husband, but couldn't guess the first part :-)You can always ask us if you're not getting a certain short form.
blove, El
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 16, 2007, at 16:16:21
In reply to small update **trig small abuse » MidnightBlue, posted by ElaineM on January 16, 2007, at 11:07:27
Hey Elaine!!!
> I was debating whether to tell this seperate part, cause it's nothing definate and I could back out at the last second and worry it'd only frustrate or disappoint you all, but, this person who I has meeting with asked once more if I'd consider (at least) group therapy. I'd said NO the first two times she asked. But I said she could put me on the list this time. I'm really scared about that. But I agreed cause I was/am really scared...I don't know. I don't know if it will do any good, and am afraid it's just gonna upset me even more -- especially if nothing seems to come of it. But I'm on the list (which usually takes two or so months *sigh*). It's dumb but last night I was so stressed about it - wished I could turn back time and take it back. I don't know - I still have a long time to think about it. More waiting. But I'm already so incredibly nervous about it. Though I'm nervous about alot of things these days.I think anyone would be nervous about this, but it seems like a really good opportunity for you to interact with more people (at the very least) and hopefully find a better therapy solution (hopefully) than what you have to put up with presently.
Here are the reasons why *I* would be nervous:
1) what if I wait and wait and nothing is available. ever. I worried for nothing.2) what if I go to the sessions and they make me feel bad, because I have to lie about/avoid talking about relationship with current T.
3) what if I go to the sessions and the other people are so much "healthier" than I am and I feel like a complete loser?
4) what if I don't like the people in the group, or they don't like me?
5) what if going to the group sessions make me feel more unstable? Isn't the status quo good enough?
6) what if seeing another T (at the group) makes current "t" increase his unwanted pleas for me to be "faithful" to him? What if I upset my current "t"? Am I good enough to place my own needs in an uncertain basket and feel confident about it, or do I need my current "t" to continue to carry the basket of my needs around with him?
7) change in my routine
8) I'm not used to talking about myself, my issues. It's been a while now.
9) Maybe I like feeling this way. It's comfy being alone and miserable, certainly more comfortable than entrusting my mental well-being to a group of complete strangers.
****
just a few of my own neurotic thoughts. Do you share any of them?
anyways, I just had a good session with my T. I wish you and I could switch places for a week or two. You'd get an infusion of the strength that comes from seeing a real T, and I could show your "t" a few things about how his behavior affects the [crazy LlurpsieNoodle] sitting across from him... yeah. That would be a good time.
-Ll
p.s. again, really really sorry if I'm being presumptuous.
p.p.s. I forgot to congratulate you on doing something really really hard. You've made a very brave decision. I hope it pays off soon!
Posted by JeffSmith on January 16, 2007, at 22:39:00
In reply to Re: ED, DH, LMNOP (abbreviation triggers?) » JeffSmith, posted by caraher on January 15, 2007, at 13:25:38
Posted by JeffSmith on January 16, 2007, at 23:03:34
In reply to Re: One More For Elaine » JeffSmith, posted by ElaineM on January 16, 2007, at 11:20:53
Oh, when you put it that way it really doesnt sound harmful or like he was controlling. And asking for and then recieving the truth sounds good to me (its the worst to be lied to or patronized or placated).
And as for abbreviations.. I usually visit another message board and once (very jokingly since I didnt at all mean it) asked some guy if we could be "BFF's" which he had no idea what was and I had to then explain it's what the "kids" say these days... which incidentally made me feel extremely old at 37.> >>>>>I dont have a shrink but still Im really not sure if "suggesting" to any client (especially if you have an ED) to lose weight/diet/exercise is really their place/job/ethical to do. Is it? Im really not sure and maybe Id have to hear how/ in what context it was said but it doesnt sound right.
>
> Well, I have a physical problem (independant of the anorexia) that I've been struggling with for over a year now. During that time, my weight went up rather high. I've always wondered if the weight gain was making my other physical problems even worse. T said it could be worth a shot trying, plus he said that he couldn't lie and say that some people aren't just happier and feel better at lower weights. He said alot of people live highly functioning lives that way (not super-low, emaciated weight, just a manipulation of ones set-point -- which is hard to do for healthy people, but really not so hard when your mind is brainwashed from an ED) Anyways, long story short, he said I should try a diet and exercise plan (taking into account that I really can't exercise at all) and see if taking off some weight made any difference to my health.
>
> I've always asked him never to lie to me, or feed me platitudes if he thought they didn't apply, so I'm glad that he was truthful and brought up the subject again. It was really difficult to hear, but I'm more accepting of it now. Just needed to get used to not being on the other end of the diet-adivce spectrum. It's always been others preaching, "please don't lose anymore weight!" or "you need to eat more" etc.
>
> :-) Sorry, the eating-related short forms are so part of me that it never occurs to me that others may not know them.
> But since you mentioned it, until I read Caraher's post I still had no idea what "DH" meant, though I've read it about a million times. I figured the H meant husband, but couldn't guess the first part :-)
>
> You can always ask us if you're not getting a certain short form.
> blove, El
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 16, 2007, at 23:52:46
In reply to small update **trig small abuse » MidnightBlue, posted by ElaineM on January 16, 2007, at 11:07:27
Elaine!
I am SO proud of you for signing up for group! I would have written you sooner, but I am having some odd computer problems! NOW just promise us you won't automatically say "no" if they call you and tell you they have a space! You must at least try it out! It is a reason to get dressed and go someplace and it really might help.
Humm about your T, he does sound awfully clueless to me. Enough on him. There are many days I wish I could believe in that quote I shared. That is part of the struggle of faith. Some days, weeks, months it is very hard.
A functioning body IS too precious to waste! What a beautiful way to put it. Even if that function is compromised some. So hurrah for making trips to the doctor and the grocery store! And for supporting others on Babble which you do so well.
See, you do have a reason to get up in the morning.
HUGS,
MB
Posted by ElaineM on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:09
In reply to Re: small update **trig small abuse » ElaineM, posted by MidnightBlue on January 16, 2007, at 23:52:46
>>>>>>Here are the reasons why *I* would be nervous:
2) what if I go to the sessions and they make me feel bad, because I have to lie about/avoid talking about relationship with current T.I share this one. I signed up to talk about other stuff, but (if I could be 100%uncensored) I could see him coming into my converation at some point. It's hard to share enough to feel unburdened, but be discreet enough not to reveal his identity, or incriminate him so much that the listener just won't let the idea of uncovering his identity, or reporting him, go.
3) what if I go to the sessions and the other people are so much "healthier" than I am and I feel like a complete loser?
Actually, I worry the opposite. That I'm gonna be a big fat whining baby, and others will have gone through something infinately worse. I worry that my story would seem like it's mocking theirs.
4) what if I don't like the people in the group, or they don't like me?
I always fear that people don't like me. I'm sure they don't. I suppose I don't need people to like me - I just really really don't want them to hate me. And we'll be really close to each other sitting in a group. I can't stand people seeing me so close. I've always refused to wear glasses cause I like not seeing people - cause it tricks me into thinking that they see just as blurry and can't really see me either. But when people are nearer I start to see them in focus - I hate it. It scares me so much. And I'll worry that they'll hate me cause I'm ugly.
5) what if going to the group sessions make me feel more unstable? Isn't the status quo good enough?
I worry that, because it's a short term, time-limited thing, that I'll only just start to feel comfortable and then I'll have to leave and be alone again. And I also fear that (because I know when the end will be) that it'll make me not be able to talk at all. I'm not good talking anyways. Usually just lone sentences. (I almost got kicked out of treatment before cause I couldn't put together spontaneous narratives like everyone else.) And I get so paralyzed with social anxiety that my brain seriously turns off. They thought that I was being withholding on purose. But really, I can barely remember how to put words together.
6) what if seeing another T (at the group) makes current "t" increase his unwanted pleas for me to be "faithful" to him? What if I upset my current "t"? Am I good enough to place my own needs in an uncertain basket and feel confident about it, or do I need my current "t" to continue to carry the basket of my needs around with him?
He doesn't know about the things I'd be talking about there. Plus, I'd never tell him I was going. If I make it there, he'll never know.
7) change in my routine
This one would be hard -- but I'd do my best to deal with it. I never know when I'm gonna have a downward health turn. I don't usually leave my place then. I have other issues with what my "routine" has to be, but I don't talk about that facet much.
8) I'm not used to talking about myself, my issues. It's been a while now.
This one I never thought of before, though now that you brought it up, it's very much true. It's been ages - plus i'm so used to worrying about saying something that would make T cry, or make him hug or hold me. I don't know if I'd be able to work on my being so wary of others before the group was over with. I worry everything I say is somehow the wrong thing. I'm glad it's a woman though, cause I worry that even sad or disgusting things sound provocative to a man (no offense. Probably just the ones I've come in contact with throughout my life)
And I REALLY fear that I'll slip up and mention T's name, or suggest where his practise is, by accident. I don't want to ruin his life and mine in the process (cause I couldn't tolerate living with the knowledge that I'd done that). But sometimes I feel like I'm almost aching to tell someone everything. I really felt it last time I emailed LadyT. I made myself stop sending them (even though she said I could). It comes and goes, but I worry I'll lose control that way.
>>>>>just a few of my own neurotic thoughts. Do you share any of them?
I guess I do. Thanks for writing it out Li. I understand things better when I read them. And you helped turn a massive, generalized sense of fear and doom, into something more nameable and smaller pieces. Thanks :)
Midnight: I promise that as long as I'm not in alot of pain that I won't back out without at least checking it out in person. And I'm always sincere about my pain - I never use it as an excuse, if it's not 100% valid, cause if I reduce it to an avoidance tactic, I only mock myself and how difficult the pain is to tolerate when it really is there.
Update: Latest test results were good :') Thank goodness. Almost over with.
blove, El
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 18, 2007, at 10:10:41
In reply to Li's worry list [and MidB], posted by ElaineM on January 17, 2007, at 22:43:09
Hi Elaine,
I'm really worried about you feeling compelled to keep someone's secrets. You seem like such a caring person, would you want your "t" to abuse another client as he is abusing you? I think that you have a responsibility to yourself to get better. That is your main responsibility. Your body seems to be back on track (thank GOD) but your psyche is headed down a path that you would not wish upon your worst enemy. I think that sometimes you sacrifice yourself, and you feel more comfortable in the role where you are being abused. ((((Elaine)))) it doesn't have to be that way. You are really a strong person. You don't even know how strong you are. I think you have so many wonderful gifts to share with others. You can really make someone's life better, starting with your own.First you must learn to trust again. Please, I know what it's like to be brainwashed into keeping dirty secrets. But the truth will set you free. You've often wished that he would get help for himself, but there is a way that you can make it happen. You've been incredibly supportive of others on psycho-babble, including me. You have said things to me when I was down that made me feel warm and hopeful inside. I am so grateful for your presence and your gifts.
Sometime, maybe this year or next year or whenever, a young woman with issues and uncertainties may seek treatment from your "t". She might not be as strong as you are. She might not have your words and your bravery to seek out crisis counsellor. "t" might start playing mind tricks on her, because he is lonely and disturbed. Things could end badly for this young woman.
You have the courage to prevent this from happening. You might not believe that you have the courage, but you CAN do this. It will be a big step towards you healing yourself. You may not think you're worth it, but you are. Your "t" is worth it too. He needs help, and he is confused and isolated and doesn't understand what he's doing professionally or in his personal life. You can help him too. And you can help the young women of the future.
Please save my thoughts and consider them carefully. There may be a day when you wake up and you can take the bundle of disturbing e-mails and you can give them to somebody who will be there for you (and who will help your "t" too.)
You know that you're not a professional psychologist. You have a lot of insight, but your "t" is your first project, and it's just too much to take on as a beginner. You should allow him to graduate to more serious treatment, even if he may be sanctioned. Breaking the law has consequences, and he has had many opportunities to stop his unlawful behavior. He's not just hurting himself, he's hurting you, and he's hurting his other clients too.
you're a good person Elaine. You're smart, and wise, and very big-hearted,
best wishes to you,
-Ll
Posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 22:41:22
In reply to Re: Li's worry list [and MidB] » ElaineM, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 18, 2007, at 10:10:41
When I checked my email after dinner, T had sent one saying that tomorrow he's gonna try and talk to his T about his feelings for me! Tonight he was gonna do a dry-run by mentioning it to one of his collegue friends from another city -- so he wouldn't be as anxious tomorrow. I can't believe it! I wasn't even pestering him. Infact, I'd only sent him one email in the past two or three days! He's never ever brought it up himself before. He's never been open to it, and now he's organized it! He said he was excited to tell me cause he knows it'll probably please me. It does. I'm glad.
I'm so nervous for tomorrow. I'll be so curious about what his T's reaction is. What he tells him he thinks of the situation. What he should do. etc. Tomorrow is the first session I've been looking forward to in nearly a year!
blove EL
ps. this doesn't mean I'm abandoning the trauma group possibility either :) [I've not smiled IRL in ages!]
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 19, 2007, at 0:05:07
In reply to He said he's finally gonna try to do it!, posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 22:41:22
Will be eager to read what happens tomorrow! And don't cancel the trauma group. It sounds like you have had enough trauma in your lifetime for SEVERAL groups! <smile> Me, too.
MidnightBlue
Posted by philyra on January 19, 2007, at 8:52:59
In reply to He said he's finally gonna try to do it!, posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 22:41:22
Wow, I'm really glad to hear that!
I hope your T gets the help he needs. I hope you do.
take care,
philyra
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 19, 2007, at 9:38:39
In reply to Re: He said he's finally gonna try to do it! » ElaineM, posted by philyra on January 19, 2007, at 8:52:59
Keep smiling kiddo :)
It does the body good :)
Trauma group sounds like a great idea. I hope this opportunity works out for you. I wouldn't worry too much about not having enough "issues" to keep up with fellow group members. You will do just fine. Remember to keep an open heart and an open mind.
Also, no matter what happens with your "t" and his therapy, his "getting better" shouldn't reflect on your self-esteem. You have no doubt helped him a great deal more than he has helped you (shame, but true). He's going through a process, and this may change things, and maybe not so much. No matter what happens, these are HIS issues. You have already started making choices that will separate your path to wellness from his path to wellness. This separation is natural and inevitable. There's going to be some tough times ahead, but you keep your chin up, and stay strong (and smile when possible :)
your friend,
-Ll
Posted by muffled on January 19, 2007, at 9:39:34
In reply to Re: He said he's finally gonna try to do it! » ElaineM, posted by philyra on January 19, 2007, at 8:52:59
Posted by caraher on January 19, 2007, at 12:42:04
In reply to He said he's finally gonna try to do it!, posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 22:41:22
I'm glad he's apparently starting to confront his problems in an appropriate venue. As Llurpsie said, remember that your healing and his are different processes. Do what's best for you!
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 19, 2007, at 22:52:34
In reply to He said he's finally gonna try to do it!, posted by ElaineM on January 18, 2007, at 22:41:22
Elaine,
No word from you yet so I'm guessing it didn't go well? Absolutely NOT your fault! Did he not tell? or had a bad reaction to what his T said?
Hanging in there with you--
MidnightBlue
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 20, 2007, at 0:12:34
In reply to Re: He said he's finally gonna try to do it! » ElaineM, posted by MidnightBlue on January 19, 2007, at 22:52:34
Elaine,
how are you tonight?
I hope you're tucked in and sleeping tight.sending sweet dreams to you of hopping from cloud to cloud (just switched my meds today, so I'm feeling kind of like that, even in my waking state)
hop....hop....hop
no, seriously-- give us an update when you feel up to it. you'll always be welcome here :)
hoppityhopsing,
Ll
Posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 15:59:02
In reply to Re: He said he's finally gonna try to do it! » MidnightBlue, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 20, 2007, at 0:12:34
Sorry, I was kinda disappointed yesterday. Not a complete failure but also, not what I had built myself up hoping for.
First, he spoke to both a friend/collegue, AND his T (the next day). They both had similar reactions...
He talked to his friend over dinner. He spoke his whole session with his T about me, but didn't mention either time that he loved me. He did say that he's been "more preoccupied with me than any other patient he's had before", that I make him "frustrated" and "sad". He spoke more about needing me to continue seeing him, and the silence in our sessions now, and more "technical/clinical" things, than he did about the love and attachment. Then both the guy and his T focused more on how to faciliate meetings better, and get me to speak more, and open up more, and how for him to deal with his uncomfortableness when I don't speak to him, and deal with the uncertainty of our "future" together. They focused on advice *that* way.He told me that he was upset with how his T meeting went cause he said he felt ignored cause his T talked about me more than about him. So I asked if he really revealed as much as he thought he did. Did he reveal enough of his personal feelings to garner personal attention from his T, rather than professional advice. That was when (in a roundabout long discussion) he revealed that he mentioned all the other feelings, but hadn't mentioned any of the romantic ones. Said he wants to keep those for himself for awhile cause he's afraid he'll be told to give them up. And he's afraid of the reaction he'd get.
When he told his friend (the same non-love content) the guy revealed to him that he had a similar predicament with one of his patients. [I felt my jaw hit the floor. I must've looked shocked cause he looked away then] I asked him how his collegue dealt with it (spoke with a T, or something), and that's when it came out that the guy only meant that he had tense/difficult/emotion-provoking sessions with a patient he found particularily sad.
But he said that his friend joined a "supervision" group of about six other therapists. I asked if anything like that existed where we are, or if that guy thought it up himself. He sounded sad and said, "I'd assume so. If you went looking for it. it's not a unique idea on his part." He said he ending up resenting his friend a little, and felt isolated from him cause this other guy has a functioning, loving marriage to help him feel better, and he only has Ex's now. When he said this the first thing I thought was that it was (again) obvious that he's trying to replace "latest Ex" with me -- put me in that role. But I didn't want to push him too much by saying it then (and saying it again).THe only thing he did tell his T was that he is often frustrated and saddened that I am always gonna be unavailable to him. I thought that could be seen as a good first step (if the T didn't pick up on the undertones already). But the more than I think about it, the more I could see the T interpreting "unavailable" as "clinically distant" or "psychologically unavailable", and not sexually, or socially unavailable. He also revealed my age.
He said that he was encouraged by the meeting cause he feared the worst type of reaction (probably why he self-protected by censoring). But he thought it was a good start. I think so too. Others aren't expected to jump right into their hardest issues in one shot, and I don't expect that of him either. I did at first, but I think i was just over-excited, or relieved or something. So I made him promise that now that he's tested the waters [the expression he used explaining it] he'll try and get into more of the personal aspect next meeting. He said he'd try. That's really all I can hope for. [I may have forgotten stuff, but I think I hit on everything here]
And then he spent like five minutes thanking me for listening to him, and offering such kinds words, and supporting him. He said he thought it was good that he started speaking to T, and he thanked me again cause he said that he only started going to one cause I pushed him. I told him I was proud of him.
So it wasn't the huge event that I had built it up to be inside, but it wasn't terrible. I'm not as deflated today as I was last night :( Sorry I didn't update sooner. THanks for all your good wishes guys. (((((((LL, Muff, Caraher, MidBlue, Philyra))))))
blove, EL
Posted by caraher on January 20, 2007, at 16:11:46
In reply to Friday's Meeting, posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 15:59:02
It is a start. That much is good. But I'm a bit worried about his evasion of the central issue. You're very generous to observe that, just as it can take any of us a while to get to the deeper issues, it is probably too much to expect him to get right to the point with his own T. Yet he's pretty up-front in telling you that he's not bringing up all his feelings because he doesn't want to be told what he knows already he ought to be doing.
Even if the early discussion is about the irrelevant question of how to get you to "open up" more (here's a hint to "T": STOP DOMINATING SESSIONS WITH YOUR OWN ISSUES!), this still is a positive development. If your T's therapist is perceptive, this person might ferret out the true root of your T's discussions about you and begin to address it, whether your T initiates that discussion himself or not.
I hope things move, quickly, in the right direction!
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 0:59:51
In reply to Re: Friday's Meeting, posted by caraher on January 20, 2007, at 16:11:46
Well,
Good for him. Your T is opening up to people about his hard issues. Not helping you much. You will need to find someone to talk to about YOUR stuff.I guess I can only dream that, maybe... If he finds out that these feelings are typical and common, well he won't take them as seriously, and they won't feel as intense and intimate as they seem right now. That may help him open up even more, etc.
I guess I still don't understand how this helps Elaine, except that you no longer feel like you must provide supportive counselling. There is NOTHING he can tell anyone that will make him a good T for you. He lost that opportunity many many months ago whne he first allowed the boundaries to become indistinct, and he has been reinforcing it with every indiscretion and certainly his odd e-mail and in-session behavior.
seroquel's go me,
take care sweetie,
=Ll
Posted by philyra on January 22, 2007, at 11:54:33
In reply to Friday's Meeting, posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 15:59:02
I feel sad about your T not revealing everything. Angry too. But I do think it's a good step. Even if he takes a couple back...
Hang in there. I am so amazed by your ability to articulate everything that's going on.
take care,
philyra
Posted by ElaineM on January 25, 2007, at 23:26:44
In reply to Re: Friday's Meeting, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 0:59:51
((((((philyra, LL, caraher)))) Just realized I hadn't said thanks for the support. I thought it may be difficult for anyone to think my T did make a good first step. But you did.
I know I'm not seeing him right now because I think he's the best T for me. He does have his moments when he's amazing and normal, and like LadyT, and does help. Like, this week I didn't get the greatest news from one of my specialists, and he helped calm me down so much. He asked so many questions, and how it made me feel. He helped me write down the questions I forgot to ask, cause I was too emotional during the appointment. And he's helping me figure out what to do now. [Actually, this week he's been more helpful than the past few months combined] However, I do know that "sometimes" is not enough, and that "consistency" is very important. I will make sure that the next T I work with will have that quality.
>>>>I guess I still don't understand how this helps Elaine, except that you no longer feel like you must provide supportive counselling.
I still do that. We spoke a little bit cause he had an inperson fight with his Ex regarding the new man she's seeing. But it was very brief, and then the focus went back to me. But soon his T will probably handle all of that.
But it helps me cause I think when his feelings lessen (hopefully by sharing them with his T and getting feedback) he wouldn't be as upset by the idea of me not seeing him as much. It'll be easier for me to leave then. Plus, if his romantic feelings tone down (or disappear) then I could still speak to him occasionally, as just a friend. I wouldn't be afraid of him then. Cause I'd never walk away completely - at least not right away.Actually, ever since he told me how he's started to be honest with his T, I've had much kinder feelings for him. Like, proudness, and appreciativeness, or something. It almost feels like some of the frustration/fear/and occasionally disgust, are being replaced with "alright-ness". Which doesn't say much, but I've started not being afraid to be in the office with him anymore (unless he starts to move suddenly). I think his next meeting with his T will go even better. If everything stalls again, then I'll have to make a decision then. But I think that having his friend (who could identify somewhat) to talk to will help the situation even more. The more outlets he has, the less he'll think he needs me.
I've cancelled tomorrow cause I'm really not well, and he was supportive (while still being concerned), and offered to help me get to the doctors or ER if I needed (cause I'm having trouble walking), but he didn't freak out or anything about me needing to miss our time together. I think he's gonna change.
Thanks for all the support everyone has given me since I've first brought up my issues. I really appreciate having had you all to unload this on, before I had the guts to tell anyone else. I'll always remember you ((((((listeners)))))).
thank you.
blove EL
Posted by muffled on January 26, 2007, at 9:43:46
In reply to a late thanks, posted by ElaineM on January 25, 2007, at 23:26:44
Sorry you got bad news :-(
You been doing well.
I been admiring your posts on admin :)
You articulate things well.
It seems like you have good news on the T front though.
So thats good. Must be a great weight of your shoulders to think he is FINALLY getting the help he needs.
It was kinda scarey for awhile.
Have you given yourself any credit for helping him get there?
You truly are an amazing person El.
Sometimes stuff is just the way it is for a reason I suppose, though I struggling w/that right now.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by philyra on January 26, 2007, at 14:37:02
In reply to a late thanks, posted by ElaineM on January 25, 2007, at 23:26:44
Hang in there, Elaine. I'm thinking of you.
I know I've said this before, but your story really resonates with me. I had blurry boundaries with a psychiatrist once, but it was a very short relationship and not as deep as what I think you're going through. But I think more that it resonates me because of the very, very deep relationship I had with my first therapist, whose boundaries were pretty traditional, but who I nevertheless became very intensely connected to. Maybe I hear echoes of that - not necessarily in what I'm hearing about your relationship itself, but in the way you write about it. I think I identify with the *way* you process things, if not the process itself.
Anyway, I'm just babbling. And hoping you find some peace in all of this very soon. I'm glad your T can be supportive to. You deserve that after all.
take care,
philyra
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