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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 13:21:44
In reply to Re: Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket..... » sassyfrancesca, posted by Phillipa on September 8, 2008, at 12:43:24
((((Phillipa))))...Thankyou, sweetie!
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 13:21:53
In reply to Re: Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket..... » sassyfrancesca, posted by Phillipa on September 8, 2008, at 12:43:24
((((Phillipa))))...Thankyou, sweetie!
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by B2chica on September 8, 2008, at 15:17:11
In reply to Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 12:18:41
some T's will do "write-off" sessions. not make you pay for all of them, or maybe any of them who knows?
depends on how often you see him.
Posted by B2chica on September 8, 2008, at 15:18:12
In reply to Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 12:18:41
i didn't mean to sound glib before. i don't know what i'm saying these days or how i sound.
i just hope the best for you.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 15:22:38
In reply to sorry i'm not helpful...:( » sassyfrancesca, posted by B2chica on September 8, 2008, at 15:18:12
((((B2Chica))): That is okay, sweetie! I am hoping he will let me come for a little while without paying (I go once a week); after all I have spent probably close to 20 thousand dollars??!!
Yikes, and hugs, Sassy
P.S. You did not....sound glib.
Posted by lucie lu on September 8, 2008, at 15:48:13
In reply to Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 12:18:41
Hi Sassy,Money is one aspect of therapy that everyone tries to ignore until it is impossible to go on doing that. I have insurance but it runs out mid-year, and I have to pay the rest out of pocket. Twice a week. Ouch.
T's responses to financial need varies soooo much, it's impossible to generalize. I think most do try to accommodate to the extent they feel they can. There is also some issue about whether charging little or no money for sessions somehow changes the frame and therefore the relationship. Some places and people will consider a sliding scale fee arrangement. If you could manage that maybe you and he could negotiate something everyone could live with.
I'm always struck by our medical system, how insurance companies pay thousands upon thousands without thinking twice for major diseases (like depression?) and not even consider mental health in the same light. I won't get started on this - it makes me so mad. Therapy is actually a very low cost intervention compared with many medical conditions.
Anyway, I'm sorry that this has become a priority 1 problem for you, which I'm sure you don't need right now. Hope all turns out well...
Love, Lucie
Posted by fleeting flutterby on September 8, 2008, at 16:31:14
In reply to Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 12:18:41
> I pay out of pocket....does anyone else? <<
---Yes, I had to starting this past July as my husband's employer changed insurance and the clinic my T. is with doesn't accept this insurance -- seems most medical facilities don't.
>>>... In a few months I won't have the money to pay him anymore (with him for 5 years).
>
> I am dreading telling him. <<
---- Why would you dread telling him? Do you think he will ONLY see you if you keep paying the same amount? I have to pay my T. more than my co-pay was when I had compatible insurance but.... she's only charging me a little more than my co-pay was before. She was so kind and willing to work with what I could afford. I hope you will find your T. to be the same. *fingers crossed*> I've been looking for another job for a long time, and don't know how I am going to live on 50 dollars a week. Never was good at handling money, so am going to try and find a part-time job...have to.<<
---- I wish you much luck with your job search, I have to work also.
I hope all turns out OK for you-- please keep us posted.
flutterby-mandy
Posted by Looney Tunes on September 8, 2008, at 21:05:17
In reply to Re: Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by fleeting flutterby on September 8, 2008, at 16:31:14
Hey Sassy. I hear you! In the town I live, all the "good" therapists do not accept insurance. I have been trying to pay out of pocket for 3 months and it is so hard.
Many times I question whether I should be spending that much money instead of paying my bills...it is making doing therapy hard.
I hope you can find another job. It is a good idea if you are not too tired...call it your "therapay job"
sigh...
Posted by WaterSapphire on September 9, 2008, at 6:00:15
In reply to Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 12:18:41
Gosh that sounds hard. Being poor is so hard even when you have assistance or help and all that you cannot even use. I really hope you can find a way to see your therapist still, or if worse comes to worse, find one for free or for a sliding fee scale. I miss having a therapist to talk too.
if it is ok "HUGS"
Posted by JayMac on September 9, 2008, at 10:24:19
In reply to Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 8, 2008, at 12:18:41
> I pay out of pocket....does anyone else? In a few months I won't have the money to pay him anymore (with him for 5 years).
>
> I am dreading telling him. Because of my divorce (after 31 years of abuse); I couldn't live on what I make, so took out a few mortgages and home equity loans; it won't last much longer.
>
> I've been looking for another job for a long time, and don't know how I am going to live on 50 dollars a week. Never was good at handling money, so am going to try and find a part-time job...have to.
>
> He said he will "never abandon me." This should be interesting......so painful, even to think about.
>
> Love, SassyHugs!
Money is a very difficult part of therapy. I've heard that even our Ts do not enjoy talking about the money aspect of the relationship.
Lately, I've been having a lot of financial difficulty.
I recently emailed my T that I need to cut our number of sessions in half. I'm sure she and I will talk about it tomorrow. I sure hopes she understands. I'm actually thinking about getting a 2nd job, basically so I can pay my T. I pay out of pocket. But in January, I'll be able to pay a whole lot less. For right now, it sucks. I'm not making as much money as I was when I first started with my T.
Love,
Jay
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 9, 2008, at 10:47:28
In reply to Re: Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by JayMac on September 9, 2008, at 10:24:19
> > I pay out of pocket....does anyone else? In a few months I won't have the money to pay him anymore (with him for 5 years).
> >
> > I am dreading telling him. Because of my divorce (after 31 years of abuse); I couldn't live on what I make, so took out a few mortgages and home equity loans; it won't last much longer.
> >
> > I've been looking for another job for a long time, and don't know how I am going to live on 50 dollars a week. Never was good at handling money, so am going to try and find a part-time job...have to.
> >
> > He said he will "never abandon me." This should be interesting......so painful, even to think about.
> >
> > Love, Sassy
>
> Hugs! Thankyou, sweetie!> Money is a very difficult part of therapy. Absolutely!
I've heard that even our Ts do not enjoy talking about the money aspect of the relationship. Yes....my t said once he needed to check himself that he wasn't exploiting me financially, emotionally, etc...> Lately, I've been having a lot of financial difficulty.
Since my divorce, I have been struggling, etc.
> I recently emailed my T that I need to cut our number of sessions in half. I'm sure she and I will talk about it tomorrow. I sure hopes she understands.
I hope she does too; in these economic times, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of clients had to forego therapy.
I'm actually thinking about getting a 2nd job, basically so I can pay my T.
That is what i am doing.
I pay out of pocket. Do you mind me asking what she/he charges? Mine charges 80.00, which I know is a little cheaper than most.
But in January, I'll be able to pay a whole lot less. For right now, it sucks. I'm not making as much money as I was when I first started with my T.
Love you, too....Jay...Sassy
> Love,
> Jay
Posted by JayMac on September 9, 2008, at 15:56:20
In reply to Re: Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 9, 2008, at 10:47:28
> I pay out of pocket. Do you mind me asking what she/he charges? Mine charges 80.00, which I know is a little cheaper than most.
>I would rather not say how much she charges. She IS expensive, but she has decades of experience. She is completely worth it! She's great. I just *wish* I could pay her that much. When we first began, she did lower her "going rate" for me. But it's still a LOT of money.
During our last session, she said she wanted to be "sensitive to my financial obligations." I kinda knew this would inevitably become an issue.
I guess she and I will chat about it all tomorrow......Glad there are other people who understand :)
Posted by fleeting flutterby on September 9, 2008, at 21:11:25
In reply to Re: Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 9, 2008, at 10:47:28
> > > I pay out of pocket....does anyone else? In a few months I won't have the money to pay him anymore (with him for 5 years).
> > >
> > > I am dreading telling him. Because of my divorce (after 31 years of abuse); I couldn't live on what I make, so took out a few mortgages and home equity loans; it won't last much longer.
> > >
> > > I've been looking for another job for a long time, and don't know how I am going to live on 50 dollars a week. Never was good at handling money, so am going to try and find a part-time job...have to.
> > >
> > > He said he will "never abandon me." This should be interesting......so painful, even to think about.
> > >
> > > Love, Sassy
> >
> > Hugs! Thankyou, sweetie!
>
> > Money is a very difficult part of therapy. Absolutely!
>
> I've heard that even our Ts do not enjoy talking about the money aspect of the relationship. Yes....my t said once he needed to check himself that he wasn't exploiting me financially, emotionally, etc...
>
> > Lately, I've been having a lot of financial difficulty.
>
> Since my divorce, I have been struggling, etc.
>
> > I recently emailed my T that I need to cut our number of sessions in half. I'm sure she and I will talk about it tomorrow. I sure hopes she understands.
>
> I hope she does too; in these economic times, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of clients had to forego therapy.
>
> I'm actually thinking about getting a 2nd job, basically so I can pay my T.
>
> That is what i am doing.
>
> I pay out of pocket. Do you mind me asking what she/he charges? Mine charges 80.00, which I know is a little cheaper than most.
>
> But in January, I'll be able to pay a whole lot less. For right now, it sucks. I'm not making as much money as I was when I first started with my T.
>
> Love you, too....Jay...Sassy
>
---------ARGH!!
I'll probably get in trouble for this but I'm so tired of clicks! why didn't you just put the people's names in your post that you wanted to reply back to you??-- that way those of us that did reply- that weren't acknowledged won't wonder why we weren't and then we won't feel ignored. argh......It's apparent that you only care to hear from certain people-- perhaps those that you already know?..... but jeez! how can one get known if others don't acknowledge they even took the effort to respond?
this has hit me at a bad time -- I'm sorry for being so forward....... I... I .... just can't take not being heard over and over and over and over..... argh!!..... story of my life......
go ahead and delete me--
banish me-- whatever..........flutterby- mandy
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 10, 2008, at 1:18:27
In reply to Re: Fear of Telling T/Paying out of Pocket....., posted by fleeting flutterby on September 9, 2008, at 21:11:25
>I'm so tired of clicks!
>why didn't you just put the people's names in your post that you wanted to reply back to you?
>It's apparent that you only care to hear from certain people--Please be sensitive to the feelings of others, even if your are hurt, by not jumping to conclusions about them, or posting anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
Mandy, I'm sorry you feel unheard and ignored. I know how much that hurts, trust me. Do you think, though, there could be other reasons for what you perceive as cliques and slights toward you? I have often replied only to some of those who replied to me. Sometimes, I couldn't think of a thing to say. I was - frozen. I didn't like or understand it, but I really couldn't write. Sometimes, my computer froze, and later I forgot, or something IRL came up and I was completely distracted, or I didn't understand what someone had said, or by the time I got to reply to poster #3, 4, 5....I was too tired/depressed/ anxious....you know?
I'll bet one of those reasons, or something else I couldn't think of, is more likely the actual reason, instead of that another poster dislikes you or doesn't want to hear you. I hope you feel better.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternate ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin, and should of course, be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
--10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2008, at 10:11:09
In reply to Please be sensitive, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on September 10, 2008, at 1:18:27
> >I'm so tired of clicks!
> >why didn't you just put the people's names in your post that you wanted to reply back to you?
> >It's apparent that you only care to hear from certain people--
>
> Please be sensitive to the feelings of others, even if your are hurt, by not jumping to conclusions about them, or posting anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down.
>
> Mandy, I'm sorry you feel unheard and ignored. I know how much that hurts, trust me. Do you think, though, there could be other reasons for what you perceive as cliques and slights toward you? I have often replied only to some of those who replied to me. Sometimes, I couldn't think of a thing to say. I was - frozen. I didn't like or understand it, but I really couldn't write. Sometimes, my computer froze, and later I forgot, or something IRL came up and I was completely distracted, or I didn't understand what someone had said, or by the time I got to reply to poster #3, 4, 5....I was too tired/depressed/ anxious....you know?
>
> I'll bet one of those reasons, or something else I couldn't think of, is more likely the actual reason, instead of that another poster dislikes you or doesn't want to hear you. I hope you feel better.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternate ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin, and should of course, be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
>
> --10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
------It all makes sense- what you said. and thank you for being kind and compassionate. I'm sorry if I hurt the OP-- I guess I'm not at a good place in my mind right now
and I let that come out. :o(Being ignored or not heard is a big trigger of mine(I'm finding out) and feeling like I'm not a part of the group, and when it happens repeatedly in a short time, I think I feel anxious and worthless....... ugh........
I wish there could be a rule that the person that creates a post has to answer all those that replied---- some of us are quite fragile in this regard...... maybe I'm not well enough for a support forum........
thank you again for understanding and I again apologize to "Sassy"-- I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings.
flutterby- mandy
Posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2008, at 10:24:22
In reply to Re: Please be sensitive » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2008, at 10:11:09
Also-- I forgot to say that I don't ever expect a personal response. A-- "thank you to everyone that replied"-- would be sufficient to me.
I don't want to sound needy or something-- it's just, I think it's nice to be acknowledged somehow-- even being included as "everyone".
now, I'm sorry I've veered off topic from the original post........
flutterby-mandy
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 11, 2008, at 8:10:30
In reply to Re: Please be sensitive--BTW......., posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2008, at 10:24:22
I apologize for not answering you (Flutterby) personally; I am not really technical here; so still trying to figure it out.
I am very appreciative of getting responses (more than you know) from everyone....who responded (sometimes I print them off and read them from time to time); makes me feel better.
I try to answer almost every thread, and not very often am I acknowledged; it hurts...but i try to understand; being super-sensitive really bites, ya know??!!
Hugs and Love to all, and I will let you know (sometime in December), what happens when I tell my t I cannot afford him anymore (my guess is that he will still see me, but I always prepare for the worst).
It doesn't help that I have been in love with him all of this time, either!
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2008, at 8:16:42
In reply to Re: Flutterby and All....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 11, 2008, at 8:10:30
Sassy, why wait so long to tell him? You've been in a therapeutic relationship with him for a long time. Shouldn't he know something that looms so large in disrupting it?
It's a big topic. I think you should tell him sooner rather than later so that the two of you can work on it together, instead of his working with one assumption and your working with another.
Posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 9:06:18
In reply to Re: Please be sensitive » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2008, at 10:11:09
> maybe I'm not well enough for a support forum........
>Actually, Mandy, I have another interpretation:
I'm terribly insecure -- I describe myself as the poster child for insecurity, which surprises many people who don't see that in me. (I hide it well.) I also feel left out at times, here and elsewhere. I feel terrible when I get to feeling that way. And I have a very, very hard time accepting anything like criticism or correction.
You just made a very nice, very understanding, very respectful response to a correction from 10der. Now, admittedly, 10der writes the kindest, most compassionate PBCs I can imagine, she's a great person, with a very great and tender heart. Nonetheless, she's still slapped your wrist, no matter how gently. And your response wasn't to go hide, to hang your head, to explode about it -- you've written back, you've acknowledged and accepted the correction, and you've apologized in case someone else's feelings were hurt.
I'd say you were getting some benefit from being here, if only by seeing that someone can say, "I really like you -- and I don't like that behavior." That's a lesson I've had trouble learning in life, and the few PBCs I've gotten here have maybe helped a bit. Maybe look at the benefits and how Babble makes you even just a little stronger?
I hope this makes sense. I'd hate to see you flutter away.
Peace.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 11, 2008, at 9:49:08
In reply to Re: Flutterby and All..... » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2008, at 8:16:42
> Sassy, why wait so long to tell him? You've been in a therapeutic relationship with him for a long time. Shouldn't he know something that looms so large in disrupting it?
Yes, I know I should, but I am hoping (magical thinking) that I will get a job before that happens.
>
> It's a big topic. I think you should tell him sooner rather than later so that the two of you can work on it together, instead of his working with one assumption and your working with another.Well, there isn't anything to work on/with, really. It doesn't matter if he lowers his fee, etc......I won't even have enough to buy groceries.....I just have to do it my way (((Flutterbly)))..
Hugs, n love, Sassy
Posted by Dinah on September 11, 2008, at 12:53:14
In reply to Re: Flutterby and All....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 11, 2008, at 9:49:08
I didn't necessarily mean that he could solve the problem.
But this is a major issue in your life. It's causing you stress. You worry that you won't have enough money to eat. He's your therapist. While you have him, isn't telling him what major things are going on in your life part of your job as client? And his helping you deal with them, no matter what that means, is part of his job as therapist.
I'm pretty sure he'd want to know something so large hovering in your life.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 11, 2008, at 13:53:20
In reply to Re: Flutterby and All..... » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2008, at 12:53:14
> I didn't necessarily mean that he could solve the problem. I know....
>
> But this is a major issue in your life. You are right!It's causing you stress. You worry that you won't have enough money to eat. It feels very shaming..
He's your therapist. While you have him, isn't telling him what major things are going on in your life part of your job as client? Exactly.
And his helping you deal with them, no matter what that means, is part of his job as therapist.
>
> I'm pretty sure he'd want to know something so large hovering in your life.you are absolutely right! Thank you so much.
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by lucie lu on September 11, 2008, at 17:13:40
In reply to Re: Flutterby and All....., posted by sassyfrancesca on September 11, 2008, at 13:53:20
Hi Sassy,
You know, weve talked and brainstormed a lot about the money side of the insurance problem (and not without good reason). I agree with Dinah that it's pretty important for your T to be with you on this sooner rather than later; I hate to see you carrying such a big burden of worry on your shoulders alone. And how will you be able to work with him all that time, keeping such a big secret within you? Maybe what's putting you in a bind, preventing you from being able to talk to him about it, is that darned elephant in the consulting room. I know you have had those strong feelings for your T for a long time (and not without some mixed signals, it has sounded like). It also sounds like those powerful feelings have never been resolved enough to be absorbed or at least accommodated into your real relationship with him. That combination of ambiguity, complexity and intensity can make for some pretty high stakes in the relationship department. Do you feel that if you tell him now you might upset this delicate, but loaded, balance between you two? And if so, how much is he aware of how precarious it feels to you? And that youd rather have what you have now for six more months, at the expense of carrying this burden and uncertainty alone? You know this might actually turn out to be a blessing in disguise if it allows you to work through some of those tangled issues. And maybe then you'll feel more confident and from that vantage point, can work with him on a solution that will make you feel more secure?
Love, Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on September 11, 2008, at 18:03:24
In reply to Re: Please be sensitive--BTW......., posted by fleeting flutterby on September 10, 2008, at 10:24:22
Hi Mandy,
I too was impressed at your response, which Racer framed so beautifully in her post. The big secret (well, probably not really a secret) is that most of us are pretty insecure. I loved what muffled said in a thread yesterday that she gets a little thrill of good feeling when her name is mentioned - but she accepts that often it just may not be. Thats pretty much how it is. But given some deep-down insecurity (and I challenge Racer for the poster-child title) , if that happens when you're at a low point and buttons get pushed, its so easy to return a four-alarm response. It happened to me about a month ago, something trivial, bad week, issues and well, the strength of my reaction completely caught me by surprise. I also owed apologies, and the whole thing embarrassed the h*ll out of me. But you know, in the end, I got to know some people better, and it opened up a great thread that helped me talk about deep childhood fears of being invisible. Im not saying it was a good thing to do ;) but just that people here can be really understanding and helpful given the opportunity.
Hope to hear lots more from you!
Best, Lucie
Posted by fleeting flutterby on September 11, 2008, at 18:20:59
In reply to Or maybe... » fleeting flutterby, posted by Racer on September 11, 2008, at 9:06:18
Sassy, I hope you will not mind my answering to Racer here. If so this post can be moved or deleted if needed.
> > maybe I'm not well enough for a support forum........
> >
>
> Actually, Mandy, I have another interpretation:
>
> I'm terribly insecure -- I describe myself as the poster child for insecurity, which surprises many people who don't see that in me. (I hide it well.) I also feel left out at times, here and elsewhere. I feel terrible when I get to feeling that way. And I have a very, very hard time accepting anything like criticism or correction.<<---Yes, I feel terrible when I get feeling that way too. I am trying VERY hard to not "run" when feeling hurt, criticized or corrected. This would not have been me just a couple years ago-- I would have disappeared-- "fluttered" away.
> You just made a very nice, very understanding, very respectful response to a correction from 10der. Now, admittedly, 10der writes the kindest, most compassionate PBCs I can imagine, she's a great person, with a very great and tender heart.<<--Scuse me-- but what is "PBCs"? is that the warning I was just given?
>> Nonetheless, she's still slapped your wrist, no matter how gently. And your response wasn't to go hide, to hang your head, to explode about it -- you've written back, you've acknowledged and accepted the correction, and you've apologized in case someone else's feelings were hurt.
>
> I'd say you were getting some benefit from being here, if only by seeing that someone can say, "I really like you -- and I don't like that behavior." That's a lesson I've had trouble learning in life, and the few PBCs I've gotten here have maybe helped a bit. Maybe look at the benefits and how Babble makes you even just a little stronger?<<---Well I DO find this site safer feeling-- considering my mental struggles. I left a very big site about 6 months ago due to too much catagorizing-- counting people's posts and putting members in different standing, having a "special" forum for only some members-- it was just too triggering for me. :o(
>
> I hope this makes sense. I'd hate to see you flutter away.
>
> Peace.<<----- Oh wow-- it makes such sense. thank you for having such patience to write this all-- you are very wise. I really appreciate it Racer. I am struggling to understand myself and others. I thank all that have helped me.
and Sassy-- thank you for not getting mad at me...... I've been having a tough go of things lately and I maybe got over defensive. (my T. said I should work on the way I word things when I am upset and want to make a point--- *sigh*-- that is so hard for me-- how to word things....) *blushes*.... oops..... I'm sorry.
flutterby-mandy
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