![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 66. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 19:55:30
Today was our third visit, and he didn't do the blank state thing. I told him more of my history, about my attachment to him/the transferrence. At the end of the session, he said I need long-term therapy, several times a week, with someone younger and that he wasn't going to be around much longer. It felt like the wind was knocked out of me when he said this, and I begged him to let me stay with him, and that he was the only doctor I ever trusted before. He said he was just doing what was best for me. That isn't really a reason though. I asked him why he induced an attachment last week, having me regress to the state of a needy 2 year old, only to decide not to treat me. He said I was accusing him of manipulating me as I left his office pissed off. In return I said NO, I did not think you were manipulating me; i thought you were doing your job and were doing it very well.
While that sounds like a rational explanation for not treating me, WTF did he induce a transference neurosis then decide to abandon me? I don't get it. Why not get my history, then decide whether or not he was going to treat me rather than attach me like that. It seemed so cruel the way he did that. This time I did mention some dreams from childhood-the only thing I can think of is that he thinks I have some buried psychosis and will need more time than he thought. And i told him I had intuitive feelings our mother wanted us all to die. My mother said over and over she wished our father dead, and almost let us drown and neglected us while we were being abused. Does that sound like paranoia to have that thought? It was just a feeling and I shared it with him. I also told him I thought my brother had sociopathic tendencies and explained all his crimes, toying with the police, animals, etc. Nothing irrational. If he thought such things, why not be straight up about it and tell me that???
He left me a message 3 hours later saying he wanted to make sure I was ok. I called him back, got his voice mail, and said I was ok (though I had severe anxiety) and asked him to refill my meds since I now have no doctor again. Dumped twice in a row. I said I'd call the doctor he recommended, but that I wanted to ask him a quesiton. Am going to ask him if he thinks I have hidden psychosis or something.
I told him that I gained more insights from spenidng 45 minutes with him than I did in years with other therapists. I told him how attached I felt to him, and how much I trust him. It really hurt.
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 20:19:48
In reply to New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 19:55:30
Is he f*ck*ng with me? I just found the 2 doctors he referred me to, in the provider list of my insurance website. One was a pediatric rheumatologist-same name and phone number. The other was a psychiatrist in the same apt. bldg where his office is located-but the first name was different-he gave me a female name for that phone number, but the doctor at that number and last name has a different first name-he's male-same phone number.
??????
I am not calling his cell phone number he puts in the voice mail for emergencies but was tempted!!
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 20:27:50
In reply to help!, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 20:19:48
For one of the numbers he gave me-Well the male doctor at that # is a psychiatrist; maybe the name he gave me was his wife-they have the same last name - she is listed as a mental health PhD at the same number. I told him I would not see a female therapist anymore and declined that referral.
The other guy is a rheumatologist at the phone number he gave me.
I am confused.
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 17, 2009, at 21:14:21
In reply to New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 19:55:30
In all fairness to this p-doc, he didn't "induce" your attachment. That was you responding powerfully to some quality in him. Possibly his seriousness and intent focus on you made you feel cared for in a way you had never felt cared for in the past and it opened up all this longing in you. But really, they don't induce this purposely. It just happens with some patients, some feel it more intensely than others. I know a ton of people in therapy, even in daily analysis, who've never felt strong transference attachments and don't understand at all why I'm so attached to my p-doc.
WTF did he induce a transference neurosis then decide to abandon me? I don't get it. Why not get my history, then decide whether or not he was going to treat me rather than attach me like that. It seemed so cruel the way he did that.
Posted by BirdSong on June 17, 2009, at 21:19:20
In reply to New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 19:55:30
Based on psychological thought.....
You are confusing transference and transference neurosis. Transference neurosis is rare, iatrogenically promoted to specifically carry out psychoanalysis. TN occurs based on the characteristic "blank slate/quiet self" of the analyst and the frequency of sessions (3-4 times a week) and it is fairly well established that it takes a year or more in this type of setting to develop a TN.
For a TN to appear, their is much more prep analytic work done and it is actually usually more likely to occur in clients with psycho-neurotic tendencies. TN is one type of transference, but far more complicated, rare, and builds up after a long-term relationship. TN is really an issue mostly in classic analysis.
On the other hand, Transference, which is what you were likely experiencing, is when you basically react to a person as if they were someone in your past. Some call transference an emotional time warp. A transference reaction means that you are reacting to someone in terms of what you need to see, what you are afraid of, or what you see when you know very little about the person.
I am not so sure the pdoc "induced" an attachment causing regression (defense mechanism). You reacted to the transference in the room and what you perceived your pdoc as being. Transference reactions are not a conscious process.
Based on your "immediate" attachment to the pdoc, he was right to refer you out and right assessing that you need long term, consistent therapy. He can not offer that and he did the right thing.
I know it hurts, but he did the right thing.
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 21:30:06
In reply to New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 19:55:30
I think Emmanuel is right. There may be things about his habitual style of therapy that encourage transference. But given the suddenness and intensity of your feelings for him, it might have more to do with you responding to some innate quality in him than anything he purposefully did to encourage you to feel that way.
For example, my therapist often wonders why it was I became so attached to him so quickly when in general I have trouble attaching to anyone. Despite my early suspicions, I now know my therapist enough to know it would never occur to him to encourage attachment of the sort I experienced. There was something about *him* in particular that helped me stick with him when I'd have ditched any other therapist relatively quickly.
Given what you've said about his strange referrals, I wonder if he is having some sort of issues that may have bled into your experience with him. Because what you describe today seems a bit odd, with rheumatology referrals. Maybe the rheumatologist has a son? Or a dual specialty?
It might be helpful to interviewing in the future to figure out what it was in him that elicited that response in you. He was an older male analyst with a blank slate approach. Did he have any other qualities that were lacking in others you've seen?
For example, I think I've figured out what it was that drew me to my therapist. He's very large, and very calm, with a deep voice. I think he emits some sort of slow calm energy that I drink up like a desert traveler coming upon an oasis. Calm energy was noticeably lacking in myself and my family. Even when he was insensitive or lacking in some way, this quality held me until his other fine and useful qualities emerged.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 17, 2009, at 21:50:17
In reply to New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 19:55:30
Garnet, I'm really sorry this has happened. In terms of explaining this and understanding it through a psychodynamic framework, Birdsong is probably correct. But remember that this is not the only framework through which to see events, and that actually, psychodynamic theory has been in descendence in the US for decades now. Of all the therapists I've known, have seen, have heard of, one, count 'em, ONE has been a psychoanalyst. The notion that there is such a thing as "buried psychosis"--try googling that term--you will find that English lit academics and film studies academics are some of the only people using that term anymore, because it is a term used by psychoanalysts, and there few of them left anymore in the US.
As a former English PhD and an M.A. in counseling psychology, I can verify that most (98% ?) people in psychology do not believe in any such nonsense as buried psychosis. You are either psychotic or you are not. Yes, there is a BIT of a spectrum, and you can experience, say, quasi-hallucinations or quasi-psychosis, but what you have described is NOT PARANOIA. Not even close. Your former T sounds like a freaking whack job to have said all of that.
I think that what you need now is validation and support--and really, I think that the place to get that is not through more of the same. Please, please consider finding a person who takes an eclectic approach, at the very least.
I think I have told you, but I have PTSD too. I know what extremely disturbing nightmares are like. I also have a family member with schizophrenia. Like me, what you have is anxiety and depression and a f*(ked up family history, not psychosis. Maybe you have PTSD too. Like me, you do not have psychosis.
If I spent a lot of time talking about my nightmares, or my childhood, or my family life, I'd be breaking down on a daily, no minute to minute, basis. I have a validating, supportive, and gently challenging therapist. He is grounded in DBT (a form of CBT), but is probably eclectic. Please consider running away from psychodynamic theory. You need TLC. You deserve TLC. There is nothing wrong WITH YOU. And I am afraid that dredging up the problems you've had with family will destabilize you much, much more than it will help.
I am sending you hugs...Amelia
> Today was our third visit, and he didn't do the blank state thing. I told him more of my history, about my attachment to him/the transferrence. At the end of the session, he said I need long-term therapy, several times a week, with someone younger and that he wasn't going to be around much longer. It felt like the wind was knocked out of me when he said this, and I begged him to let me stay with him, and that he was the only doctor I ever trusted before. He said he was just doing what was best for me. That isn't really a reason though. I asked him why he induced an attachment last week, having me regress to the state of a needy 2 year old, only to decide not to treat me. He said I was accusing him of manipulating me as I left his office pissed off. In return I said NO, I did not think you were manipulating me; i thought you were doing your job and were doing it very well.
>
> While that sounds like a rational explanation for not treating me, WTF did he induce a transference neurosis then decide to abandon me? I don't get it. Why not get my history, then decide whether or not he was going to treat me rather than attach me like that. It seemed so cruel the way he did that. This time I did mention some dreams from childhood-the only thing I can think of is that he thinks I have some buried psychosis and will need more time than he thought. And i told him I had intuitive feelings our mother wanted us all to die. My mother said over and over she wished our father dead, and almost let us drown and neglected us while we were being abused. Does that sound like paranoia to have that thought? It was just a feeling and I shared it with him. I also told him I thought my brother had sociopathic tendencies and explained all his crimes, toying with the police, animals, etc. Nothing irrational. If he thought such things, why not be straight up about it and tell me that???
>
> He left me a message 3 hours later saying he wanted to make sure I was ok. I called him back, got his voice mail, and said I was ok (though I had severe anxiety) and asked him to refill my meds since I now have no doctor again. Dumped twice in a row. I said I'd call the doctor he recommended, but that I wanted to ask him a quesiton. Am going to ask him if he thinks I have hidden psychosis or something.
>
> I told him that I gained more insights from spenidng 45 minutes with him than I did in years with other therapists. I told him how attached I felt to him, and how much I trust him. It really hurt.
>
>
Posted by BirdSong on June 17, 2009, at 22:15:15
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me » garnet71, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 17, 2009, at 21:50:17
There is a difference between psychoanalytic and psychodynamic and I would be careful when warning against running from psychodynamic therapy.
The diagnosis of an individual (don't read label) has alot to do with searching for the "most effective" and scientifically proven therapy. For example, for PTSD, we know that EMDR is excellent in processing traumatic memories. For BPD, we know that DBT is excellent and object relations is good as well. For depression, CBT can be utilized quickly and provides excellent results.....
....However, for those looking for improvements in relationships, psychodynamic therapy can be wonderful....for those with eating disorders, psychodynamic therapy combined with CBT is what is suggested...etc., etc., etc.Psychodynamic is much different then psychoanalytic; involves a relationship, involves working through transferences, and brings unconscious feelings into conscious awareness. These have a purpose and can provide excellent insight if done with the right therapist.
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 22:40:56
In reply to New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 19:55:30
Thanks for straightening me out with the terminology I had mistaken, and for the support. I don't know. I thought the attachment was necessary for that type of therapy.
Oh, he did not say anything about "buried" psychosis at all, that was my thought... I was just trying to figure out why all of the sudden he couldn't treat me, and thought maybe he realized today I had issues more serious than he originally thought.
He is extremely professional though, moreso than any pdoc or therapist I've been too. It seems odd he wouldn't tell me straight up why he couldn't see me. He told me the first time we met, I needed intensive psychotherapy. I dont' see how this meeting today changed that, or why he would even see new patients if he couldn't provide therapy. Come to think of it, I do believe when I called him iniitially, he said he's not one for psychopharmacology but could help give me advice on other doctors to see when I told him about my situation (PDoc dumped me after I asked for Dextrat) and to come see him to discuss.
I don't know why he would do all that blank state stuff though if he didn't want the strong transference. And no, I still think he induced it, or at least encouraged it. If he was just giving me advice, he wouldn't have been like that; instead, he would have just talked to me normal about treatment types, meds, my childhood history, etc.
Yes, Amelia, I had PTSD; I don't know if I 'have' it anymore (if it goes away or if its something you have forever).
I'm trying to do my howmework still. I'll talk to him tomorrow.
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 22:54:32
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me » garnet71, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 21:30:06
Well the 'unique' quality was that I trusted him before I met him (which was reaffirmed when I saw how professional he was and how he did not get out prescription pad even once yet). This psychiatrist's son was one of my former doctors, though only 3 times (thru military). Son tried to hook me up w/dad about a year or 2 ago, but dad wasn't on military insurance list (no good PDocs are) His son left a lasting impression on me. I know he is not his son, but what I felt from his son moved me so much, that it led me to his father.
When I called to see him, I told psychiatrist father that I knew his son, and this was why I sought treatment with him. I told this psychiatrist I trusted him completely during our first meeting.
Dinah, given what you say below, I can only say I highly doubt it. He is extremely professional. That is why I'm so confused - this is the main issue: if my strong attachment is the issue, then I think he would have said something like "I am not going to be practicing long enough to complete a course of treatment..blah blah blah and given your strong attachment, transferrence...." His not being straight up with me is what is strange.
So maybe the rheumatologist was a mistake, but how could he get doctors mixed up? Maybe he is sick-I saw boxes in his office and piles of folders and stuff like he was moving. How could this have changed from 3 weeks ago though? Well this thought came from 1st therapist who had pancreatic cancer when he took me on, and we only were together 5 sessions are so. I'm sad to think those thoughts, but this reminds me of that. But 3 weeks ago...he took me on as a new patient?
"Given what you've said about his strange referrals, I wonder if he is having some sort of issues that may have bled into your experience with him. Because what you describe today seems a bit odd, with rheumatology referrals. Maybe the rheumatologist has a son? Or a dual specialty?"
Posted by BirdSong on June 17, 2009, at 22:55:35
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by BirdSong on June 17, 2009, at 22:15:15
Ok....perhaps I should just say it.
1) You said he was old.
2) You wanted psychodynamic therapy. Whether that is the best method right now for you is subject for debate....(which I would be happy to discuss at another time)...BUT.....he was coming from a psychodynamic perspective, therefore.....
3) Quick "attachment"...intense attachment as you displayed immediately can signify "certain diagnoses," which require more intensive therapy
4) Additionally these same issues can require long-term therapy...years.
From the perspective he was coming from and from what you shared and the issues that came up, Garnet, he did the right thing. He actually probably saved you from getting hurt later on when you got really into therapy and he had to retire or cut his hours back or .....
This has NOTHING to do with you, but has to do with the limitations of him as a T.
=====
For example: You know I work with teens/kids. You know I do DBT with them. What you don't know is that I limit my practice to only a certain number of DBT clients at a time. So I have 'X' number of teens in DBT and 'X' number of kids that are further along doing other therapy.......MY colleagues take 'X' number of DBT clients and 'X' number of other kids as well...It is not because of the clients...If I could I would take them all. But because there are only so many hours in the day and so many days of the week that I can work....and be "at my best."
Another example....
Now, assume I get chronically ill and I can only keep working with the kids I currently have (I usually work with kids 1-4 years)..I cant take anymore no matter how much potential or "connection" or anything we have, because the chronic illness tires me out more quickly.It's not because of the clients....it is because T's are human....
There is a T out there for you. Trust me.
And there is one that is going to love working through transference etc, if that is what you want....He did you a favor...(not about the selection of referrals he gave you, but about his decision)
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 23:06:31
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by emmanuel98 on June 17, 2009, at 21:14:21
In all fairness to this p-doc, he didn't "induce" your attachment"
The thing is, if he wasn't trying to get a specific reaction from me, if we were merely discussing history, he wouldn't have put on blank state AND he wouldn't have stripped me of my defense mechanisms to expose my unconscious. As this was happening, he would specifically stop me w/the emergence of each defense mechanism (joking about past, intellectualizing, etc.), forcing me to recognize it while he further dismantled them by saying stuff that made me stop doing it. The defense mechanisms dissappeared. He was doing this-I was merely talking.
If he wasn't trying to get me in that state, he would not have 1) done blank state; 2) dismantled defense mechanisms.
I felt like I was in an altered state of consciouness-a trance like state. If he was merely trying to get my history, rather than promote transference, it seems very odd he would do this.
And the fact that the wrong number was the male doctor, who is actually a pediatric rheumatologist, after I dismissed the female, forces me to call him back.
So still-nothing makes sense. Grrrrrrrrr!!!
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 23:09:56
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by BirdSong on June 17, 2009, at 22:55:35
Yes, it does make sense now that you explained that.
He is actually an old-school psychoanalyst who does ecceltic approaches (like psychodynamic therapy).
Posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 23:11:46
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by BirdSong on June 17, 2009, at 22:55:35
Oh-the intense psycotherapy was his idea, not mine. I never knew anything about this type of therapy. He told me on the first day that's what i needed. Maybe like you said, the strong attachment led him to believe he could not provide what I needed.
Thanks
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 17, 2009, at 23:25:55
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by garnet71 on June 17, 2009, at 22:40:56
Sounds like you are in a better place. I'm really glad to hear it, Garnet.
> Thanks for straightening me out with the terminology I had mistaken, and for the support. I don't know. I thought the attachment was necessary for that type of therapy.
>
> Oh, he did not say anything about "buried" psychosis at all, that was my thought... I was just trying to figure out why all of the sudden he couldn't treat me, and thought maybe he realized today I had issues more serious than he originally thought.
>
> He is extremely professional though, moreso than any pdoc or therapist I've been too. It seems odd he wouldn't tell me straight up why he couldn't see me. He told me the first time we met, I needed intensive psychotherapy. I dont' see how this meeting today changed that, or why he would even see new patients if he couldn't provide therapy. Come to think of it, I do believe when I called him iniitially, he said he's not one for psychopharmacology but could help give me advice on other doctors to see when I told him about my situation (PDoc dumped me after I asked for Dextrat) and to come see him to discuss.
>
> I don't know why he would do all that blank state stuff though if he didn't want the strong transference. And no, I still think he induced it, or at least encouraged it. If he was just giving me advice, he wouldn't have been like that; instead, he would have just talked to me normal about treatment types, meds, my childhood history, etc.
>
> Yes, Amelia, I had PTSD; I don't know if I 'have' it anymore (if it goes away or if its something you have forever).
>
> I'm trying to do my howmework still. I'll talk to him tomorrow.
>
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 17, 2009, at 23:40:04
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me, posted by BirdSong on June 17, 2009, at 22:15:15
I should not have used the terms interchangeably, as psychodynamic theory comes out of psychoanalysis. But you are dead wrong to describe transference and the unconscious as being a part of psychodynamics and not psychoanalytics, as it was Freud, who built his original system of psychology on notions of the unconscious and subconscious, etc. That he abandoned his work on the unconscious later doesn't mitigate that fact. Period.
Yes, the diagnosis of the individual does to some extent affect the treatment recommendation, but you are wrong to say that CBT is for depression, and that "we know" DBT is excellent for BPD (and by extension, nothing else). Studies have demonstrated efficacy for DBT in populations that have a primary diagnosis of anxiety, and of depression, and even of addiction. Most DBT groups these days are populated by people without a diagnosis of BPD (and that's based on research, education, and personal experience). CBT is used for anxiety and depression too. Both are being used for the treatment of schizophrenia. Your information about these modalities reads as needing an update. One of the four modules in DBT is on interpersonal effectiveness--that would generally be the go to modality for psychologists presented with a client who needs help in the social sphere.
Moreover, in most of the psychology world, you would be hard pressed to find psychologists who use the psychodynamic framework AT ALL, so that it isn't ever a question whether to use those concepts or modalities. In fact, my experience in grad school, typical of most US grad schools, is that psychologists find psychodynamics laughable. That is not my personal opinion. I am not making that statement. So don't shoot the messenger.
I stand by my recommendation that Garnet steer clear of psychodynamics and analysis. You may not like it, but I'm not asking you to.
> There is a difference between psychoanalytic and psychodynamic and I would be careful when warning against running from psychodynamic therapy.
>
> The diagnosis of an individual (don't read label) has alot to do with searching for the "most effective" and scientifically proven therapy. For example, for PTSD, we know that EMDR is excellent in processing traumatic memories. For BPD, we know that DBT is excellent and object relations is good as well. For depression, CBT can be utilized quickly and provides excellent results.....
> ....However, for those looking for improvements in relationships, psychodynamic therapy can be wonderful....for those with eating disorders, psychodynamic therapy combined with CBT is what is suggested...etc., etc., etc.
>
> Psychodynamic is much different then psychoanalytic; involves a relationship, involves working through transferences, and brings unconscious feelings into conscious awareness. These have a purpose and can provide excellent insight if done with the right therapist.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 0:19:47
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't treat me » BirdSong, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 17, 2009, at 23:40:04
Hmmm...okay, I saw your posts on Social about DBT. They demonstrate that you do understand that DBT can be used for diagnoses other than BPD. That understanding didn't come through at all in your reply to me. And while I thought you were unnecessarily harsh with Deneb, I agree that stigmas exist even within communities of people with mental illness.
What did come through is that you are a treatment provider. I'm not sure why you post here regularly, I don't know your story, but understand that some of us also have advanced education in psychology, even if we are not practicing therapists.
And since this board since heavily tilted toward psychodynamic approaches, I am going to continue to post about other modalities. Informed consumer = empowered consumer.
> I should not have used the terms interchangeably, as psychodynamic theory comes out of psychoanalysis. But you are dead wrong to describe transference and the unconscious as being a part of psychodynamics and not psychoanalytics, as it was Freud, who built his original system of psychology on notions of the unconscious and subconscious, etc. That he abandoned his work on the unconscious later doesn't mitigate that fact. Period.
>
> Yes, the diagnosis of the individual does to some extent affect the treatment recommendation, but you are wrong to say that CBT is for depression, and that "we know" DBT is excellent for BPD (and by extension, nothing else). Studies have demonstrated efficacy for DBT in populations that have a primary diagnosis of anxiety, and of depression, and even of addiction. Most DBT groups these days are populated by people without a diagnosis of BPD (and that's based on research, education, and personal experience). CBT is used for anxiety and depression too. Both are being used for the treatment of schizophrenia. Your information about these modalities reads as needing an update. One of the four modules in DBT is on interpersonal effectiveness--that would generally be the go to modality for psychologists presented with a client who needs help in the social sphere.
>
> Moreover, in most of the psychology world, you would be hard pressed to find psychologists who use the psychodynamic framework AT ALL, so that it isn't ever a question whether to use those concepts or modalities. In fact, my experience in grad school, typical of most US grad schools, is that psychologists find psychodynamics laughable. That is not my personal opinion. I am not making that statement. So don't shoot the messenger.
>
> I stand by my recommendation that Garnet steer clear of psychodynamics and analysis. You may not like it, but I'm not asking you to.
>
>
>
> > There is a difference between psychoanalytic and psychodynamic and I would be careful when warning against running from psychodynamic therapy.
> >
> > The diagnosis of an individual (don't read label) has alot to do with searching for the "most effective" and scientifically proven therapy. For example, for PTSD, we know that EMDR is excellent in processing traumatic memories. For BPD, we know that DBT is excellent and object relations is good as well. For depression, CBT can be utilized quickly and provides excellent results.....
> > ....However, for those looking for improvements in relationships, psychodynamic therapy can be wonderful....for those with eating disorders, psychodynamic therapy combined with CBT is what is suggested...etc., etc., etc.
> >
> > Psychodynamic is much different then psychoanalytic; involves a relationship, involves working through transferences, and brings unconscious feelings into conscious awareness. These have a purpose and can provide excellent insight if done with the right therapist.
>
>
Posted by BirdSong on June 18, 2009, at 1:56:19
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't ) Birdsong, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 0:19:47
First of all, I started to come here like everyone else a couple of months ago, looking for a place to talk about my therapy experience, because I am a client with a therapist who does a very unique form of therapy. I actually post infrequently until recently when I responded to and posted in a couple threads.
But I am also a child psychologist who did my dissertation evaluating modes of treatment for children with attachment disorders and "difficult diagnoses". I work almost entirely with children who are wards of the state.1) I never said that psychoanalytic therapy did not involve unconscious and transference. In fact if you note my first post to Garnet, I posted that Transference Neurosis is specifically a component of psychoanalytic therapy and not psychodynamic therapy. However, psychoanalytic therapy is very different than psychodynamic therapy. Reread my first post.
2) I am not going to talk anymore about DBT. I have trained from Linehan and her organization. I work in organized DBT circles and have been practicing DBT for over 10 years.
3) http://health.usnews.com/blogs/on-parenting/2009/06/04/prevent-depression-in-teens-with-cognitive-behavioral-therapy.html
This study reports the results from a recent study from Vanderbilt University reported in JAMA that basically discusses the success of CBT for depression. There are tons of others going back many years. This one focuses on teens.4) I will not respond regarding Deneb anymore. I suggest you look at the pattern and behaviors. And if so many are aware of psychology, they should then recognize that they are feeding the cycle and not helping.
I had privately spoken with Garnet, so I responded to her experience. However, I have asked NUMEROUS times for my account to be deleted......so your concern regarding hearing my story or why I come here, should not be a concern anymore.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 2:09:35
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't ) Birdsong((ASP, posted by BirdSong on June 18, 2009, at 1:56:19
There is so much to say, but in the interest of civility, I will restrict my comment to this: there is a difference between not feeding someone's symptoms and providing them with the equivalent of tough love. Tough love was bad in the 80s and, thank god, no one talks about tough love any more, except in boot camps, and we know how great a treatment they are. I would not present someone with all their past posts as though to win a point. Boundaries can be set without hurting a person. I didn't see any GIVE in that DEAR MAN you gave.
You have every right to post here. I was just confused about why, since it seemed like you were posting as a therapist, and then, to me, as an expert on the mountain, which, in a context where we are providing peer support, would seem to me to confuse people who have probably experienced a lot of squishy boundaries already.
Your choice to leave. That is not what I was asking you to do, at all.
> First of all, I started to come here like everyone else a couple of months ago, looking for a place to talk about my therapy experience, because I am a client with a therapist who does a very unique form of therapy. I actually post infrequently until recently when I responded to and posted in a couple threads.
> But I am also a child psychologist who did my dissertation evaluating modes of treatment for children with attachment disorders and "difficult diagnoses". I work almost entirely with children who are wards of the state.
>
> 1) I never said that psychoanalytic therapy did not involve unconscious and transference. In fact if you note my first post to Garnet, I posted that Transference Neurosis is specifically a component of psychoanalytic therapy and not psychodynamic therapy. However, psychoanalytic therapy is very different than psychodynamic therapy. Reread my first post.
>
> 2) I am not going to talk anymore about DBT. I have trained from Linehan and her organization. I work in organized DBT circles and have been practicing DBT for over 10 years.
>
> 3) http://health.usnews.com/blogs/on-parenting/2009/06/04/prevent-depression-in-teens-with-cognitive-behavioral-therapy.html
> This study reports the results from a recent study from Vanderbilt University reported in JAMA that basically discusses the success of CBT for depression. There are tons of others going back many years. This one focuses on teens.
>
> 4) I will not respond regarding Deneb anymore. I suggest you look at the pattern and behaviors. And if so many are aware of psychology, they should then recognize that they are feeding the cycle and not helping.
>
> I had privately spoken with Garnet, so I responded to her experience. However, I have asked NUMEROUS times for my account to be deleted......so your concern regarding hearing my story or why I come here, should not be a concern anymore.
Posted by jane d on June 18, 2009, at 5:36:08
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't ) Birdsong((ASP, posted by BirdSong on June 18, 2009, at 1:56:19
>
> 3) http://health.usnews.com/blogs/on-parenting/2009/06/04/prevent-depression-in-teens-with-cognitive-behavioral-therapy.html
> This study reports the results from a recent study from Vanderbilt University reported in JAMA that basically discusses the success of CBT for depression. There are tons of others going back many years. This one focuses on teens.I found the description in the linked article annoyingly vague. Here's the abstract itself which isn't much better.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/301/21/2215Neither says how the outcome was measured. Self report and unspecified clinical diagnosis. Of course in depression that's also based on self report. And therein lies the problem with this study and tons of others.
The USNews blurb about the study described cbt as follows.
"Thus if people change how they think about a situation and how they respond to it, they can feel better, even if the situation hasnt changed."
The problem is that it's so easy to teach people to change how they REPORT thinking about a situation and that will change how they score on most checklists used to diagnose depression. Voila! Instant cure.
Perhaps that isn't how depression was measured this time. The abstract doesn't say. It would certainly make a nice change.
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2009, at 5:59:03
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't ) Birdsong((ASP, posted by BirdSong on June 18, 2009, at 1:56:19
>However, I have asked NUMEROUS times for my account to be deleted......so your concern regarding hearing my story or why I come here, should not be a concern anymore.
Please don't leave.
:-(
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2009, at 6:09:12
In reply to Article on CBT for depressed teens » BirdSong, posted by jane d on June 18, 2009, at 5:36:08
I think the true results of CBT are cumulative. It is not the successful reframing of a single event that produces change in depression scores, but the gradual improvement in core beliefs that comes from repeated reframings. It is a top-down therapy rather than a bottom up therapy. Results come rapidly because the automatic negative thoughts are extinguished so quickly. This, in turn, starts the process of improving one's self-esteem as intermediate beliefs become more positive.
It works for me, anyway.
- Scott
Posted by garnet71 on June 18, 2009, at 8:08:30
In reply to Re: Article on CBT for depressed teens, posted by SLS on June 18, 2009, at 6:09:12
Sorry, I know we change subjects on threads all the time, but i feel in crisis and am somehow feeling upset by seeing all the CBT posts and some discussions in this thread about negative things about the type of therapy i'm in...please....
Posted by Nadezda on June 18, 2009, at 8:21:06
In reply to Re: New psychiatrist/analyst can't ) Birdsong, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 0:19:47
Amelie, how can you suggest that someone else not post here-- for any reason?
I appreciate anyone's knowledge and experience-- and to be honest, if someone is a psychologist, they have a lot to offer us in terms of understanding of what we're dealing with and giving us insight into the other side of the fence-- how the world may look to the "other person" we're always imagining things about.
Moreover, I've found Birdsong's posts valuable and helpful-- even we lurkers can get a lot from reading posts and responses here-- and I can't imagine why you would disinvite a helpful person from posting.
If you feel that anyone has violated civility norms, there are steps you can take. But please don't say things like "I'm not sure why you post here regularly..."
Birdsong posts here for the same reason that everyone does-- they have something they want to communicate and wish to benefit from and/or to contribute to the discussion--
no one needs any further reason-- or justification --
gosh. the more there are thoughtful and knowledgeable people, the more we grow. If you don't think someone's adequately informed as to your or our advanced educations-- feel free to inform them-- but don't imply that they aren't welcome.
Nadezda
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2009, at 8:48:08
In reply to can you please talk about CBT on another thread?, posted by garnet71 on June 18, 2009, at 8:08:30
> Sorry, I know we change subjects on threads all the time, but i feel in crisis and am somehow feeling upset by seeing all the CBT posts and some discussions in this thread about negative things about the type of therapy i'm in...please....
Yes. Absolutely. I'm glad you said something.
I hope you are able to resolve things as quickly and painlessly as possible.
- Scott
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