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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 14:38:11
I've been thinking of you.
How is it going?
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 13, 2009, at 7:18:30
In reply to Therapygirl?, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 14:38:11
You're amazing. I've just been planning to post later today, which I will do.
It's going fine with the dog and with work, not so good with T. I continue to be really frustrated with her. More details to come.
Bayleigh is doing great. She really is the sweetest dog and it has made a huge difference to be coming home to her instead of to an empty house. We've had some adjustment issues and I started crating her last week. She's done great with that and it seems to actually help her feel calmer when I'm gone. I'm also taking her with me on the weekends now to see little man. He has come along nicely with his dog phobia and he has a fenced in backyard, which Bayleigh loves.
More to come. Hope you are okay, too.
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 13, 2009, at 18:37:09
In reply to Therapygirl?, posted by Dinah on June 12, 2009, at 14:38:11
So I've been taking Bayleigh to therapy with me at T's suggestion. I think it's just to keep me distracted. She asked me Thursday night if I wanted to talk about her leaving (we haven't discussed it in at least two weeks). I said, "I have nothing new to add. Do you?" She said, "No."
I sighed and took a moment and then I said, "This is why I'm frustrated with you. You don't seem to want to do this. I tell you something, you say this is good to know and act like it's new information and then you don't follow up. I don't know if you forget what I tell you or if it's just easier for you to walk away from me if we don't deal with it, but it's very frustrating."
Of course, she sees it differently. The thing I told her recently (that seemed to come as news to her) is that it's not that I think she can fix this for me, but I need her to teach me how to manage the pain and the sadness and the panic for after she's gone. She really acted like this was brand new information, while I feel like I've said different versions of this for MONTHS. She said this was good and helpful for her to know. That night, she asked me again about a new T (I said no and reminded her that the last time I went to a different T, she sent the police to my house to "escort" me to the hospital). She encouraged me to connect with all of you here online (I already do this and I love you guys, but typing words on a computer is not going to fill the gap that she leaves). And then she encouraged me to connect to more people in real life. I left with the impression that she would do some additional thinking about this and continue the discussion. She is apparently under the mistaken impression that the discussion is over -- she's made her suggestions. Is it just me or is this TOTALLY LAME and inadequate?
So this week she wants me to tell her (again) what I want her to do. I looked at her and said, "I'm out of words. It's like you've never met me." She said that just because she didn't understand what I was talking about didn't mean she wasn't connected to me (uh, yes it does). I told her that I was apparently incapable of making myself clear and I didn't know how else to say it. She started asking me what I was going to do to fill my Thursday nights. I looked at her like she was from another planet and said, "Thursday nights are the least of my worries. I'm worried about the middle of the night, about what to do when the anxiety and depression come back and I don't have you here to anchor me." She said something completely lame about how it's been years since I've idealized her and that I am overstating what she is to me and what she gives me. I think she is understating it to make it easier for herself.
I just don't know what to do at this point. I'm at my wit's end.
Sigh.
Posted by Phillipa on June 15, 2009, at 12:35:41
In reply to Re: The Therapy Update -- LONG » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on June 13, 2009, at 18:37:09
Wow Therapy Girl. You're doing amazingly well. Sorry if interrupted conversation between you and Dinah. Phillipa
Posted by FindingMyDesire on June 16, 2009, at 1:18:03
In reply to Re: The Therapy Update -- LONG » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on June 13, 2009, at 18:37:09
Dear TherapyGirl,
I'm just catching up on your post. It totally made me cry. I mean, I know that's just me projecting all over the place, but it also helps me have empathy I think.
I can't hardly imagine what you are facing. And you are so incredibly articulate about what's going on, your challenges, and what you need. I really hope you see how incredible you are being to yourself to hear yourself so clearly. I hope that's not weird to say.
However, I know that doesn't take away the impending gap she will leave.
I'm sorry that it sounds like she is inserting her own stuff into the space you share and she is not able to show up for you as she should/you want/you need.
It just sounds so, so hard.
Thinking of you,
FindingMyDesire
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 16, 2009, at 6:04:28
In reply to Re: The Therapy Update -- LONG » TherapyGirl, posted by Phillipa on June 15, 2009, at 12:35:41
Thanks, Phillipa. I'll try to remember that when the panic is overwhelming. I appreciate your support.
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 16, 2009, at 6:09:41
In reply to ((((((((((TherapyGirl)))))))))), posted by FindingMyDesire on June 16, 2009, at 1:18:03
Thanks, FMD. I'm sorry my post caused you pain, though. I do appreciate the total validation. T will say my filters are messed up, but I don't think so. I think your assessment that she is not really able to show up is correct. I think there are a number of reasons for this, but it doesn't change the fact that in 24 years of therapy this is the worst she's handled anything. Right when I need her to be completely on top of her game.
Sigh.
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 17, 2009, at 19:49:22
In reply to Re: ((((((((((TherapyGirl)))))))))) » FindingMyDesire, posted by TherapyGirl on June 16, 2009, at 6:09:41
I should probably cancel my appt., but you know I won't. She's apparently going on vacation next week. For someone who's leaving in 6 months, she sure does take a lot of time off.
She asked me to try to write the stuff I don't think she's getting. But I've just been too tired. And I don't think it will help. I think I've been clear enough she would have gotten it by now if she was half trying.
Sigh.
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 21:41:18
In reply to Re: I've done nothing to get ready for tomorrow, posted by TherapyGirl on June 17, 2009, at 19:49:22
> She asked me to try to write the stuff I don't think she's getting. But I've just been too tired. And I don't think it will help. I think I've been clear enough she would have gotten it by now if she was half trying.
I totally understand. I'm having a similar experience with my therapist right now, and am coming to another of those downgrades of expectations I have to make now and then, because it's clear I care more about sustaining the relationship than he does. :(
It sounds as if you have been darn clear, and I get the frustration. But if it would help, maybe you could write it here and in the give and take of conversation with others, you might find a way you haven't thought of yet to say things so she can understand?
Tho honestly she sounds exactly like my therapist when he is hurting me with abandonment. Things he knows and understands quite well before and after, he becomes totally and determinedly oblivious to while he is in the process of abandoning me.
It must be some sort of protection to their own self esteem or something.
Is she like that? If you had talked to her about this before she decided to retire, would she have been more likely to understand?
(I'm sorry I asked the question then disappeared. It's been a cr*ppy few days. What with my mother, and hot flashes with the resulting lack of sleep, and now a humongous fight with my therapist, I'm more scattered than I might seem.)
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 18, 2009, at 19:17:17
In reply to Re: I've done nothing to get ready for tomorrow » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 21:41:18
No worries, Dinah. I figured something was going on for you -- either work or other things. I'm sorry you've been having a bad week, though.
You were not far off with your assessment. I'll post separately about what happened tonight.
Thanks again for all the support you've given me through this.
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 18, 2009, at 19:30:57
In reply to Re: I've done nothing to get ready for tomorrow » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 21:41:18
So tonight she started out asking me about her vacation next week (big deal, when I'm facing the rest of my life without her). Then she wanted to "clarify" what I meant when I told her last week that I thought she either forgot our previous breakthroughs or chose not to deal with them to make it easier for her to walk away from me. She asked me why I said that and I said, "I'm just trying to figure out why you're dealing with this so differently than anything else you've dealt with in the past 24 years." She told me that it was never going to be easy to leave me and she wanted me to know that. She then said (again) that it seemed like I didn't think she understood that this was hard for me. I told her I thought she said the words in moments, but I didn't see any understanding in her actions. She asked for more information so I told her that the things she's suggested to help me deal with the loss of her would be great if I was just losing my therapist. But I am losing my mother. I told her I know she's not my mother and I know she doesn't feel the same way, but that doesn't change the fact that I AM LOSING MY MOTHER. She said she was very aware of that, but that she probably could not imagine how difficult this is for me. She asked me what I needed from her. I told her that I needed something closer to what she would give her daughter if her daughter was losing her. I thought before I said it that it might piss her off, but it didn't. She said that was a helpful way to think about it, but she wasn't sure if she could do that because she felt it was important to hold the boundary with me. I told her that I knew she couldn't do it exactly like she would with her daughter and I didn't expect her to, but that I needed something from her that was WAY closer to that than what she's been doing and that she had figured out a way to work around the boundaries for all these years and still give me what I needed and I thought she could do that again. She agreed.
Then she started talking about how hard it is for her to lose me and how she has been consulting about our process and trying to hold the boundary, which was very hard for her to do (the implication being that she wants to fix this for me). She said that she thought she had erred on the side of holding the boundary too firmly AND that she thought she should start sharing with me her feelings about this. She asked if that would be okay and I told her it would.
She even admitted that in the same way that she's pointed out to me that I'm using my anger at her to keep her at a distance, that she's been keeping me at a distance because it's been so difficult for her to hold the f*cking boundary.
I don't know what this all means and I have no idea if she'll actually follow up this time, but it felt like real progress. I guess we'll see what happens in two weeks.
Thanks to all of you for standing by me and helping me articulate things.
Posted by antigua3 on June 18, 2009, at 20:28:23
In reply to Re: Progress, maybe, posted by TherapyGirl on June 18, 2009, at 19:30:57
That sounds great and it makes a lot of sense, that she was holding her boundaries so firmly because she is afraid of her own feelings and her first obligation is to protect you.
Kudos for sticking with this until you finally reached her.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 22:26:53
In reply to Re: Progress, maybe, posted by TherapyGirl on June 18, 2009, at 19:30:57
It sounds like progress to me.
It's generally at that point of self awareness that my therapist stops being a jerk and starts being my therapist again. It's a shame she came to that understanding right before a vacation. Hopefully she'll think on it now and again before she comes back.
I think it's interesting that she says she's been seeking consultation. On the one hand, that's good because it indicates that she understands the importance of this, and that she has you in her thoughts. But it's bad because after twentyfour years you guys have worked out your own balance of boundaries, and no outsider can perfectly understand that or advise with that in mind. And very few therapists really understand what a twentyfour year therapy relationship is like, even allowing for individual differences.
I really do hope she holds on to the understanding that she is being different from what she ordinarily is right now, and in a way that is not helpful to you.
Posted by workinprogress on June 19, 2009, at 3:07:29
In reply to Re: Progress, maybe » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 22:26:53
Therapygirl-
I haven't been involved in your threads at all to this point. I think in part because I can't imagine to have any new advice to add and also because it for me, like probably so many others who are just starting intense relationships with our Ts, brings up challenging feelings. I can't imagine saying goodbye now, much less at the point of my Ts retirement. So, while I empathize, it's also something that is hard to bare to think about. All that is to say... what you are going through must be so hard and scary.
But, I so connected with your thoughts of "I'm losing my mother", that was the point at which I thought, "I so get it". And, it seems that that was the point at which your T finally got it. It was so brave of you to say that, but clearly so meaningful to her, to both of you. I certainly hope that it's a permanent turning point for both of you in this chapter. I think it is telling though too, that it's what got me to really really feel and empathize and clearly it's what got her. And in the end, it was this pure honesty that connected you to her again. So scary to share, but absolutely real and honest. I think so often it is what's missing in all relationships, pure and total honesty.
I do hope that it proves that taking that risk and being completely honest is what moves you forward... And if it does, let that be a lesson to us all. Those risks and honesty are often worth it... if you've built a foundation of trust to got beforehand.
Wishing you all the best. Keep us posted.
(((((((Therapygirl)))))))
xo
WIP
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 19, 2009, at 19:43:19
In reply to Re: Progress, maybe, posted by antigua3 on June 18, 2009, at 20:28:23
Thanks, Antigua. I'm really hoping we can get back on track now. It's been very odd having her act so differently.
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 19, 2009, at 19:45:10
In reply to Re: Progress, maybe » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 22:26:53
That's exactly what I was thinking about the consultation. How can someone who has never met me weigh in on something this important? I can only assume she didn't trust herself to make good decisions about it, probably because of the stuff she's been dealing with. It's all unfortunate for me -- a lot of wasted time.
She did tell me I had given her a lot to think about on her vacation. I can only hope she really remembers what we talked about when she gets back.
Thanks for hanging in this horrible place with me, Dinah.
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 19, 2009, at 19:46:34
In reply to Re: Progress, maybe, posted by workinprogress on June 19, 2009, at 3:07:29
Thanks, WIP. Believe me, I know how very triggering and hard to deal with this whole subject is. I appreciate you reading, even when you don't feel like you can weigh in.
I hope this really is a turning point for T and me. I'll keep you posted on that.
Thanks for the sweet post.
This is the end of the thread.
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