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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2016, at 6:06:42
So this guy is like "you like being ill because you want attention from your parents". And he is like "you dont want to work". But WHY dont i want to work? Its because i have depression. And i not only dont want to work, i also cant.
CHange Therapist?
Posted by Tabitha on July 10, 2016, at 13:08:26
In reply to Outrageous Psychologist, posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2016, at 6:06:42
> So this guy is like "you like being ill because you want attention from your parents". And he is like "you dont want to work". But WHY dont i want to work? Its because i have depression. And i not only dont want to work, i also cant.
>
> CHange Therapist?When I hear these tactics, I think of these possibilities:
1) the therapist expects that this will motivate you to get angry and prove him wrong by changing. Fine, maybe that works for some people, but it might be profoundly counter-productive for others. Do you think this approach will help you improve your situation?
2) they don't think it's likely to help, but this is their last resort. After they've tried everything in their bag of tricks, and you're still not improving, they go to "you must just want to be sick because you're getting secondary gains from it". I guess they think you might have a lightbulb moment and think "oh yeah, I do like all the rewards of being sick" and be able to just stop doing it.
3) they don't expect it to help at all, but at least they've put the blame on you and distracted from the fact that they're not able to help you.
If you otherwise like this therapist, it might be worth asking them if they can use a different technique with you. If not, then I think they're clearly demonstrating that they don't know how to help you.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2016, at 16:12:12
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist » Lamdage22, posted by Tabitha on July 10, 2016, at 13:08:26
> > So this guy is like "you like being ill because you want attention from your parents". And he is like "you dont want to work". But WHY dont i want to work? Its because i have depression. And i not only dont want to work, i also cant.
> >
> > CHange Therapist?
>
> When I hear these tactics, I think of these possibilities:
>
> 1) the therapist expects that this will motivate you to get angry and prove him wrong by changing. Fine, maybe that works for some people, but it might be profoundly counter-productive for others. Do you think this approach will help you improve your situation?No.
> 2) they don't think it's likely to help, but this is their last resort. After they've tried everything in their bag of tricks, and you're still not improving, they go to "you must just want to be sick because you're getting secondary gains from it". I guess they think you might have a lightbulb moment and think "oh yeah, I do like all the rewards of being sick" and be able to just stop doing it.
It cant be the last resort. It was my first session with him.
> 3) they don't expect it to help at all, but at least they've put the blame on you and distracted from the fact that they're not able to help you.
> If you otherwise like this therapist, it might be worth asking them if they can use a different technique with you. If not, then I think they're clearly demonstrating that they don't know how to help you.
I dont like him very much.
Posted by Tabitha on July 10, 2016, at 16:55:14
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist, posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2016, at 16:12:12
>
> It cant be the last resort. It was my first session with him.
Wow. I'm not sure how anyone can think they can make a judgement like that on first meeting anyone, or that it would be helpful even if they were somehow correct.
>
> I dont like him very much.Understandable.
Posted by baseball55 on July 10, 2016, at 19:13:08
In reply to Outrageous Psychologist, posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2016, at 6:06:42
> So this guy is like "you like being ill because you want attention from your parents". And he is like "you dont want to work". But WHY dont i want to work? Its because i have depression. And i not only dont want to work, i also cant.
>
> CHange Therapist?Run, don't walk. So judgmental. Even if these things were true (and I'm sure they're not) rule number one of therapy is don't challenge people's defenses until they have skills in place to change them. So to just start by challenging and judging you.I agree. Sounds outrageous. There are, unfortunately, a lot of rotten therapists out there. Hope you can find someone good.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 11, 2016, at 1:19:52
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist, posted by baseball55 on July 10, 2016, at 19:13:08
Well to be fair he said that it is his suspicion.
Posted by SLS on July 11, 2016, at 15:55:51
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist, posted by Lamdage22 on July 11, 2016, at 1:19:52
> Well to be fair he said that it is his suspicion.
I know the "condition" that he is describing, but I can't remember the name of it (facticious disorder?). His suspicions could be right. His suspicions could be wrong. But I can't see how it is at all helpful to verbalize his suspicions to you with so little time invested in you. At the very least, there is no way that he could know you well enough to understand how his words would be received by you. Without more information about you, he could be doing more harm than good. This is dangerous.
I don't like it.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 12, 2016, at 1:08:30
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 11, 2016, at 15:55:51
Well i wake up at 7 now...
Go figure.
Posted by baseball55 on July 12, 2016, at 19:08:10
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 11, 2016, at 15:55:51
When therapists suspect that being mentally ill has advantages for a patient, they call this "secondary gains." As in, what might one gain by staying ill (consciously or unconsciously)? Since the secondary gain is often unconscious or unexamined, most good therapists would not confront a client about this until they had reached a point of trust and self-awareness to look at this possibility.
Facticious disorder usually is applied to situations where people fake physical symptoms (sometimes even cause symptoms by harming, poisoning self) to get medical attention. It's also called Munchausen syndrome. There is also a condition called Munchausen by proxy, where a parent will make a child ill to get medical attention. Obviously, anybody who would do this has some serious psychological issues.
But it is very different from, say, conversion disorder where people experience very real symptoms for which no physical cause can be found and that are probably caused by emotional stress. (Used to be called hysterical symptoms).
In factitious disorder, the person knows that they are not really ill and deliberately manipulates physicians because they might only feel safe in a hospital or they grew up with a sick parent or sibling who absorbed all the family's attention.
>
> I know the "condition" that he is describing, but I can't remember the name of it (facticious disorder?). His suspicions could be right. His suspicions could be wrong. But I can't see how it is at all helpful to verbalize his suspicions to you with so little time invested in you. At the very least, there is no way that he could know you well enough to understand how his words would be received by you. Without more information about you, he could be doing more harm than good. This is dangerous.
>
> I don't like it.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on July 12, 2016, at 20:20:59
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist » SLS, posted by baseball55 on July 12, 2016, at 19:08:10
Thanks, Baseball.
I'm glad you caught my error. I couldn't remember the name of the disorder. That was a great explanation.
- Scott> When therapists suspect that being mentally ill has advantages for a patient, they call this "secondary gains." As in, what might one gain by staying ill (consciously or unconsciously)? Since the secondary gain is often unconscious or unexamined, most good therapists would not confront a client about this until they had reached a point of trust and self-awareness to look at this possibility.
>
> Facticious disorder usually is applied to situations where people fake physical symptoms (sometimes even cause symptoms by harming, poisoning self) to get medical attention. It's also called Munchausen syndrome. There is also a condition called Munchausen by proxy, where a parent will make a child ill to get medical attention. Obviously, anybody who would do this has some serious psychological issues.
>
> But it is very different from, say, conversion disorder where people experience very real symptoms for which no physical cause can be found and that are probably caused by emotional stress. (Used to be called hysterical symptoms).
>
> In factitious disorder, the person knows that they are not really ill and deliberately manipulates physicians because they might only feel safe in a hospital or they grew up with a sick parent or sibling who absorbed all the family's attention.
> >
> > I know the "condition" that he is describing, but I can't remember the name of it (facticious disorder?). His suspicions could be right. His suspicions could be wrong. But I can't see how it is at all helpful to verbalize his suspicions to you with so little time invested in you. At the very least, there is no way that he could know you well enough to understand how his words would be received by you. Without more information about you, he could be doing more harm than good. This is dangerous.
> >
> > I don't like it.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
Posted by Horse on July 12, 2016, at 20:27:35
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist » Lamdage22, posted by Tabitha on July 10, 2016, at 13:08:26
Bulls eye! I found this very helpful to read.
> > So this guy is like "you like being ill because you want attention from your parents". And he is like "you dont want to work". But WHY dont i want to work? Its because i have depression. And i not only dont want to work, i also cant.
> >
> > Change Therapist?
>
> When I hear these tactics, I think of these possibilities:
>
> 1) the therapist expects that this will motivate you to get angry and prove him wrong by changing. Fine, maybe that works for some people, but it might be profoundly counter-productive for others. Do you think this approach will help you improve your situation?
>
> 2) they don't think it's likely to help, but this is their last resort. After they've tried everything in their bag of tricks, and you're still not improving, they go to "you must just want to be sick because you're getting secondary gains from it". I guess they think you might have a lightbulb moment and think "oh yeah, I do like all the rewards of being sick" and be able to just stop doing it.
>
> 3) they don't expect it to help at all, but at least they've put the blame on you and distracted from the fact that they're not able to help you.
>
>
> If you otherwise like this therapist, it might be worth asking them if they can use a different technique with you. If not, then I think they're clearly demonstrating that they don't know how to help you.
>
Posted by Horse on July 12, 2016, at 20:40:50
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist, posted by Lamdage22 on July 10, 2016, at 16:12:12
>I dont like him very much.
This speaks volumes. I think there can be second guessing when deciding on a therapist that dislike or discomfort can indicate resistance (or is it projection?) which needs to be worked through. I think there is some bad juju BS beliefs about what therapy should be.
I'd keep looking. Judgement does not feel good to me!
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2016, at 9:25:30
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist » Lamdage22, posted by Horse on July 12, 2016, at 20:40:50
i left him
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 29, 2017, at 0:29:30
In reply to Re: Outrageous Psychologist, posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2016, at 9:25:30
i am working 3 hours now so he was obviously wrong
This is the end of the thread.
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