![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Greg on October 2, 2000, at 8:17:20
Do any of you have family or friends that think you are incapable of handling the truth? Do they treat you like some kind of fragile figurine that will shatter into a million pieces if dropped? Do they choose their words so carefully that conversations are uncomfortable? This is happening to me.
How do you convince these people that you want to be talked and treated like a "normal" human being? There are times when I can't handle certain conversations, but I'm completely capable of telling people that. I can say "I can't handle talking about this right now".
Don't these people understand that sheltering me can make me feel even worse?If anyone else experiences this and/or has found an effective way to deal with it, I'd really like to hear about it.
My philosophy is pretty simple, life goes on with you, without you or in spite of you. I'd prefer it go on with me.
Greg
Posted by Cindy W on October 2, 2000, at 9:04:07
In reply to Walking on egg shells..., posted by Greg on October 2, 2000, at 8:17:20
> Do any of you have family or friends that think you are incapable of handling the truth? Do they treat you like some kind of fragile figurine that will shatter into a million pieces if dropped? Do they choose their words so carefully that conversations are uncomfortable? This is happening to me.
>
> How do you convince these people that you want to be talked and treated like a "normal" human being? There are times when I can't handle certain conversations, but I'm completely capable of telling people that. I can say "I can't handle talking about this right now".
> Don't these people understand that sheltering me can make me feel even worse?
>
> If anyone else experiences this and/or has found an effective way to deal with it, I'd really like to hear about it.
>
> My philosophy is pretty simple, life goes on with you, without you or in spite of you. I'd prefer it go on with me.
>
> GregGreg, I can relate to what you're saying, about people treating you differently. I wish people would realize that I'm just like them, except that I have some very low moods and OCD. I'm capable of conversing and can handle pretty much anything. People need to understand how to treat others who have depression, OCD, mental retardation, or whatever. We are people first, and everybody has problems; ours just happen to be mental health type problems.--Cindy W
Posted by noa on October 2, 2000, at 10:20:06
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells..., posted by Cindy W on October 2, 2000, at 9:04:07
I can relate. It has pissed me off when people have done this.
Posted by Racer on October 2, 2000, at 16:14:53
In reply to Walking on egg shells..., posted by Greg on October 2, 2000, at 8:17:20
Yeah, or those folks who want to remind you of how much better you are now -- EVERY time you talk!
Mostly, I just remind myself that they mean well, and in my case they all do. One benefit of my most recent depression is this: I've 'fired' all my so-called-friends, and only retained those people who showed themselves to be true friends. Therefore, they mean well.
What do I do about it? I tell them, nicely, without witnesses, at a calm time of conversation, that it bothers me when they exclude me 'for my own good' and tell them why: I still have to function in a world which {shock horror} is not perfect! Usually, they still walk on eggshells, for a while, while experimenting with giving me bad news until they learn that I really can manage to hear it.
It helps that I've learned to tell them when it's not the right time for me to hear it. I guess it comes down to trust.
Now, Greg, you and I have spoken, so I know that you have the skills it will take to have these conversations, and to leave your listener feeling special. Go forth and triumph!
Posted by noa on October 2, 2000, at 18:35:41
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells... » Greg, posted by Racer on October 2, 2000, at 16:14:53
> It helps that I've learned to tell them when it's not the right time for me to hear it. I guess it comes down to trust.
I think that is a really important point. We want them not to make assumptions about what we can handle, so we need to be communicative about that and let them know when we cannot handle something, so they don't have to rely on their own assumptions. They will anyway, but maybe some of them will "get it".
Posted by shar on October 3, 2000, at 20:03:51
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells..., posted by noa on October 2, 2000, at 18:35:41
Greg,
I am guilty of doing this (walking on eggshells) in two situations.1. Growing up in an abusive household youngsters learn quickly to watch incredible nuances in behavior of parents, because there are "tells" that will indicate when they are about to go off on someone (not 100% of the time). So, eggshell walking can be self-protective.
2. In my therapy group, there is a woman who actually is very "fragile" (thin, wispy) looking, and had a HORRIBLE and INCREDIBLY SICK AND ABUSIVE childhood and early adulthood. It took me a year or so to believe that I could say things that might upset her and she would come out of it ok. We had several discussions on the point, and finally I have been able to let go of that worry (about 95%).
She brought that up this week in group, interestingly enough. She said that was the big turning point when she knew she and I could be closer.
People don't do it to me, because (I think) I've always been responsible for a lot of family things, and just keep on going no matter what. People can rarely tell if I'm suicidal or anxious, because I always look "serene" they say. If so, it's not on purpose!!
I agree with talking it out, and I know it's been a rough time lately, but maybe give a moment of thought about whether you've "gone off on someone" when they talked to you about something you weren't ready to handle. If so, they may be feeling a little self-protective. I could be totally off base here; just MHO.
Shar
Shar
Posted by Racer on October 3, 2000, at 20:21:01
In reply to Walking on egg shells...Guilty....., posted by shar on October 3, 2000, at 20:03:51
>
> 2. In my therapy group, there is a woman who actually is very "fragile" (thin, wispy) looking, and had a HORRIBLE and INCREDIBLY SICK AND ABUSIVE childhood and early adulthood. It took me a year or so to believe that I could say things that might upset her and she would come out of it ok. We had several discussions on the point, and finally I have been able to let go of that worry (about 95%).
>
This came up in a group I was going to about a year ago. One member of the group was feeling especially close to everyone, and admitted something that had bothered him for years and years. He'd never discussed it before, and needed to get it out. What was it? He'd been in prison years before, and killed a man there. One member of the group got very agitated, and said that she thought no one should discuss things like that in group, because they were so likely to upset other people. This led the group to state plainly that we would not allow ourselves to self-censor on the grounds of upsetting others. If we did so, we'd lose the purpose of the group: a safe place to discuss upsetting things.This is a big issue, I guess, and one we rarely mention. Hm... Gotta think on it for a while...
Posted by noa on October 4, 2000, at 12:36:26
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells...Guilty....., posted by Racer on October 3, 2000, at 20:21:01
That is a big one, racer, for a group to cope with!!
Posted by JaneST on October 9, 2000, at 1:15:21
In reply to Walking on egg shells..., posted by Greg on October 2, 2000, at 8:17:20
Greggor:
Wish I'd seen this thread a few days ago. Can't be all things to all people...nor should we expect/accept that from them.Still a lesson for me...guess I'm just practicing here.....
Love ya, man,
Janers
Posted by Pritzker on October 10, 2000, at 22:40:05
In reply to Walking on egg shells..., posted by Greg on October 2, 2000, at 8:17:20
> Greg,
I just discovered this service today and I posted a long e-mail under "Pritzker". Anyway, amazingly people actually responded to it. So, now I feel I should return the favor by posting follow-up to subjects I can respond to.
The same thing is happening to me where my parents are ashamed and feel a little tenative toward me. They just are so afraid of "pushing me over the edge" again. Luckily, I am not living with them, so their negativity is not affecting directly as much. But they are my parents, you know.
My advice: Believe in yourself. Let your positive feelings toward yourself radiate to those in your surroundings. The idea of psychotherapy is founded upon this outward radiation of newly gained self-esteem. In the practical setting, you could physically try to take a deep breath and then expel (symbolic of making a new presence) prior to your interaction with your families and friends. During your exchanges with your families and friends, remember to focus on the goal of presenting yourself in this new light and just let your internal emotions then carry you through the social exchanges.
I hope that makes sense, somewhat...
Cordially,
PritzkerDo any of you have family or friends that think you are incapable of handling the truth? Do they treat you like some kind of fragile figurine that will shatter into a million pieces if dropped? Do they choose their words so carefully that conversations are uncomfortable? This is happening to me.
>
> How do you convince these people that you want to be talked and treated like a "normal" human being? There are times when I can't handle certain conversations, but I'm completely capable of telling people that. I can say "I can't handle talking about this right now".
> Don't these people understand that sheltering me can make me feel even worse?
>
> If anyone else experiences this and/or has found an effective way to deal with it, I'd really like to hear about it.
>
> My philosophy is pretty simple, life goes on with you, without you or in spite of you. I'd prefer it go on with me.
>
> Greg
Posted by Greg on October 11, 2000, at 7:57:26
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells..., posted by Pritzker on October 10, 2000, at 22:40:05
All,
I wanted to thank all of you for your input and advice on this. I've been a lot more pro-active in letting my family and friends know how I feel about this issue (nicely of course), and most have promised to try their best to treat me normally in the future.
I didn't realize how difficult it is for them too. Sometimes I forget how hard it is for the people who love us to watch us go thru our dis-ease. I think that in a way I should probably be grateful that they care enough about me to even consider my feelings like this.
Oh well, live and learn right?
Pritzker,
Welcome to Babble! I did read your post. It was pretty late and I wasn't up to responding right then, but I will do so this afternoon. I'm glad you found us!
Greg
> > Greg,
>
> I just discovered this service today and I posted a long e-mail under "Pritzker". Anyway, amazingly people actually responded to it. So, now I feel I should return the favor by posting follow-up to subjects I can respond to.
>
> The same thing is happening to me where my parents are ashamed and feel a little tenative toward me. They just are so afraid of "pushing me over the edge" again. Luckily, I am not living with them, so their negativity is not affecting directly as much. But they are my parents, you know.
>
> My advice: Believe in yourself. Let your positive feelings toward yourself radiate to those in your surroundings. The idea of psychotherapy is founded upon this outward radiation of newly gained self-esteem. In the practical setting, you could physically try to take a deep breath and then expel (symbolic of making a new presence) prior to your interaction with your families and friends. During your exchanges with your families and friends, remember to focus on the goal of presenting yourself in this new light and just let your internal emotions then carry you through the social exchanges.
>
> I hope that makes sense, somewhat...
>
> Cordially,
> Pritzker
>
> Do any of you have family or friends that think you are incapable of handling the truth? Do they treat you like some kind of fragile figurine that will shatter into a million pieces if dropped? Do they choose their words so carefully that conversations are uncomfortable? This is happening to me.
> >
> > How do you convince these people that you want to be talked and treated like a "normal" human being? There are times when I can't handle certain conversations, but I'm completely capable of telling people that. I can say "I can't handle talking about this right now".
> > Don't these people understand that sheltering me can make me feel even worse?
> >
> > If anyone else experiences this and/or has found an effective way to deal with it, I'd really like to hear about it.
> >
> > My philosophy is pretty simple, life goes on with you, without you or in spite of you. I'd prefer it go on with me.
> >
> > Greg
Posted by Pritzker on October 11, 2000, at 23:56:41
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells...All, posted by Greg on October 11, 2000, at 7:57:26
> Greg,
Thank you for your comments on my behalf in my post. Unfortunatly, Caroline, and Mark and the others are right. The only defense I have against my action is that I was in a different state of mind (literally, a different and darker state of mind). Like my mind was split. But, right now I am myself.
So, my reasons for writing to you are:
1) Do not hold anything against Caroline. In fact, I am going to ask you to please forget about the Caroline on my post, she was just acting on a different mission.
2) I am glad that things are working out positively for you and your family. Keep believing in yourself.Take care,
Lei (that's my real name)All,
>
> I wanted to thank all of you for your input and advice on this. I've been a lot more pro-active in letting my family and friends know how I feel about this issue (nicely of course), and most have promised to try their best to treat me normally in the future.
>
> I didn't realize how difficult it is for them too. Sometimes I forget how hard it is for the people who love us to watch us go thru our dis-ease. I think that in a way I should probably be grateful that they care enough about me to even consider my feelings like this.
>
> Oh well, live and learn right?
>
> Pritzker,
>
> Welcome to Babble! I did read your post. It was pretty late and I wasn't up to responding right then, but I will do so this afternoon. I'm glad you found us!
>
> Greg
>
> > > Greg,
> >
> > I just discovered this service today and I posted a long e-mail under "Pritzker". Anyway, amazingly people actually responded to it. So, now I feel I should return the favor by posting follow-up to subjects I can respond to.
> >
> > The same thing is happening to me where my parents are ashamed and feel a little tenative toward me. They just are so afraid of "pushing me over the edge" again. Luckily, I am not living with them, so their negativity is not affecting directly as much. But they are my parents, you know.
> >
> > My advice: Believe in yourself. Let your positive feelings toward yourself radiate to those in your surroundings. The idea of psychotherapy is founded upon this outward radiation of newly gained self-esteem. In the practical setting, you could physically try to take a deep breath and then expel (symbolic of making a new presence) prior to your interaction with your families and friends. During your exchanges with your families and friends, remember to focus on the goal of presenting yourself in this new light and just let your internal emotions then carry you through the social exchanges.
> >
> > I hope that makes sense, somewhat...
> >
> > Cordially,
> > Pritzker
> >
> > Do any of you have family or friends that think you are incapable of handling the truth? Do they treat you like some kind of fragile figurine that will shatter into a million pieces if dropped? Do they choose their words so carefully that conversations are uncomfortable? This is happening to me.
> > >
> > > How do you convince these people that you want to be talked and treated like a "normal" human being? There are times when I can't handle certain conversations, but I'm completely capable of telling people that. I can say "I can't handle talking about this right now".
> > > Don't these people understand that sheltering me can make me feel even worse?
> > >
> > > If anyone else experiences this and/or has found an effective way to deal with it, I'd really like to hear about it.
> > >
> > > My philosophy is pretty simple, life goes on with you, without you or in spite of you. I'd prefer it go on with me.
> > >
> > > Greg
Posted by Greg on October 12, 2000, at 8:27:32
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells...All, posted by Pritzker on October 11, 2000, at 23:56:41
Lei,
What I did was not so much in defense of you as it was in defense of myself, you and everyone here who has the right to be respected and treated as a human being. If I had it to do over again, I would, whether it be you or anyone else here. I agree that you have issues that need to be addressed and I hope you work on those soon. I will be here to support you when needed, and if need be I will give constuctive critisism. But rest assured that I will never abuse you over the choices you make.
Caroline and I have no problem with each other, we just have vastly differing viewpoints. I expect her to bring it to my attention if she ever thinks I have made an innappropriate post. The wonderful thing about the world we live in is that we don't always have to agree with each other, differing opinions keep us healthy and honest. If anything, I think this will help her and I to communicate more often. Please don't worry about us, concentrate on yourself.
I hope you choose to stay, I would like to see you become a member of this family. But if your choice is to not return, please take with you my best wishes for a peaceful life and a quick recovery.
Greg
> > Greg,
>
> Thank you for your comments on my behalf in my post. Unfortunatly, Caroline, and Mark and the others are right. The only defense I have against my action is that I was in a different state of mind (literally, a different and darker state of mind). Like my mind was split. But, right now I am myself.
>
> So, my reasons for writing to you are:
> 1) Do not hold anything against Caroline. In fact, I am going to ask you to please forget about the Caroline on my post, she was just acting on a different mission.
> 2) I am glad that things are working out positively for you and your family. Keep believing in yourself.
>
> Take care,
> Lei (that's my real name)
>
> All,
> >
> > I wanted to thank all of you for your input and advice on this. I've been a lot more pro-active in letting my family and friends know how I feel about this issue (nicely of course), and most have promised to try their best to treat me normally in the future.
> >
> > I didn't realize how difficult it is for them too. Sometimes I forget how hard it is for the people who love us to watch us go thru our dis-ease. I think that in a way I should probably be grateful that they care enough about me to even consider my feelings like this.
> >
> > Oh well, live and learn right?
> >
> > Pritzker,
> >
> > Welcome to Babble! I did read your post. It was pretty late and I wasn't up to responding right then, but I will do so this afternoon. I'm glad you found us!
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > > > Greg,
> > >
> > > I just discovered this service today and I posted a long e-mail under "Pritzker". Anyway, amazingly people actually responded to it. So, now I feel I should return the favor by posting follow-up to subjects I can respond to.
> > >
> > > The same thing is happening to me where my parents are ashamed and feel a little tenative toward me. They just are so afraid of "pushing me over the edge" again. Luckily, I am not living with them, so their negativity is not affecting directly as much. But they are my parents, you know.
> > >
> > > My advice: Believe in yourself. Let your positive feelings toward yourself radiate to those in your surroundings. The idea of psychotherapy is founded upon this outward radiation of newly gained self-esteem. In the practical setting, you could physically try to take a deep breath and then expel (symbolic of making a new presence) prior to your interaction with your families and friends. During your exchanges with your families and friends, remember to focus on the goal of presenting yourself in this new light and just let your internal emotions then carry you through the social exchanges.
> > >
> > > I hope that makes sense, somewhat...
> > >
> > > Cordially,
> > > Pritzker
> > >
> > > Do any of you have family or friends that think you are incapable of handling the truth? Do they treat you like some kind of fragile figurine that will shatter into a million pieces if dropped? Do they choose their words so carefully that conversations are uncomfortable? This is happening to me.
> > > >
> > > > How do you convince these people that you want to be talked and treated like a "normal" human being? There are times when I can't handle certain conversations, but I'm completely capable of telling people that. I can say "I can't handle talking about this right now".
> > > > Don't these people understand that sheltering me can make me feel even worse?
> > > >
> > > > If anyone else experiences this and/or has found an effective way to deal with it, I'd really like to hear about it.
> > > >
> > > > My philosophy is pretty simple, life goes on with you, without you or in spite of you. I'd prefer it go on with me.
> > > >
> > > > Greg
Posted by chdurie2 on October 12, 2000, at 11:16:32
In reply to Re: Walking on egg shells...All » Pritzker, posted by Greg on October 12, 2000, at 8:27:32
> Lei,
>
> What I did was not so much in defense of you as it was in defense of myself, you and everyone here who has the right to be respected and treated as a human being. If I had it to do over again, I would, whether it be you or anyone else here. I agree that you have issues that need to be addressed and I hope you work on those soon. I will be here to support you when needed, and if need be I will give constuctive critisism. But rest assured that I will never abuse you over the choices you make.
>
> Caroline and I have no problem with each other, we just have vastly differing viewpoints. I expect her to bring it to my attention if she ever thinks I have made an innappropriate post. The wonderful thing about the world we live in is that we don't always have to agree with each other, differing opinions keep us healthy and honest. If anything, I think this will help her and I to communicate more often. Please don't worry about us, concentrate on yourself.
>
> I hope you choose to stay, I would like to see you become a member of this family. But if your choice is to not return, please take with you my best wishes for a peaceful life and a quick recovery.
>
> Greg
>
> > > Greg,
> >
> > Thank you for your comments on my behalf in my post. Unfortunatly, Caroline, and Mark and the others are right. The only defense I have against my action is that I was in a different state of mind (literally, a different and darker state of mind). Like my mind was split. But, right now I am myself.
> >
> > So, my reasons for writing to you are:
> > 1) Do not hold anything against Caroline. In fact, I am going to ask you to please forget about the Caroline on my post, she was just acting on a different mission.
> > 2) I am glad that things are working out positively for you and your family. Keep believing in yourself.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Lei (that's my real name)
> >
> > All,
> > >
> > > I wanted to thank all of you for your input and advice on this. I've been a lot more pro-active in letting my family and friends know how I feel about this issue (nicely of course), and most have promised to try their best to treat me normally in the future.
> > >
> > > I didn't realize how difficult it is for them too. Sometimes I forget how hard it is for the people who love us to watch us go thru our dis-ease. I think that in a way I should probably be grateful that they care enough about me to even consider my feelings like this.
> > >
> > > Oh well, live and learn right?
> > >
> > > Pritzker,
> > >
> > > Welcome to Babble! I did read your post. It was pretty late and I wasn't up to responding right then, but I will do so this afternoon. I'm glad you found us!
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > > > Greg,
> > > >
> > > > I just discovered this service today and I posted a long e-mail under "Pritzker". Anyway, amazingly people actually responded to it. So, now I feel I should return the favor by posting follow-up to subjects I can respond to.
> > > >
> > > > The same thing is happening to me where my parents are ashamed and feel a little tenative toward me. They just are so afraid of "pushing me over the edge" again. Luckily, I am not living with them, so their negativity is not affecting directly as much. But they are my parents, you know.
> > > >
> > > > My advice: Believe in yourself. Let your positive feelings toward yourself radiate to those in your surroundings. The idea of psychotherapy is founded upon this outward radiation of newly gained self-esteem. In the practical setting, you could physically try to take a deep breath and then expel (symbolic of making a new presence) prior to your interaction with your families and friends. During your exchanges with your families and friends, remember to focus on the goal of presenting yourself in this new light and just let your internal emotions then carry you through the social exchanges.
> > > >
> > > > I hope that makes sense, somewhat...
> > > >
> > > > Cordially,
> > > > Pritzker
> > > >
> > > > Do any of you have family or friends that think you are incapable of handling the truth? Do they treat you like some kind of fragile figurine that will shatter into a million pieces if dropped? Do they choose their words so carefully that conversations are uncomfortable? This is happening to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you convince these people that you want to be talked and treated like a "normal" human being? There are times when I can't handle certain conversations, but I'm completely capable of telling people that. I can say "I can't handle talking about this right now".
> > > > > Don't these people understand that sheltering me can make me feel even worse?
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone else experiences this and/or has found an effective way to deal with it, I'd really like to hear about it.
> > > > >
> > > > > My philosophy is pretty simple, life goes on with you, without you or in spite of you. I'd prefer it go on with me.
> > > > >
> > > > > GregPritzker (lei), Greg:
I wasn't annoyed or angry yesterday about everything that happened over Pritzker's posting, but I am now.
I'm a bit new around here myself, but Lei (pritzker,) I think it's only fair that if you have things to say about me regarding another posting that you should put those comments in the thread where they belong - rather than having a conversation about me on another thread that Greg posted on another subject.
It's certainly true that you wrote stuff about Greg's problem of his friends walking on eggshells, but you led your posting with fallout from your encounter with me and others on another thread.
If you're not willing to give your "more mature" reactions about my words to me - rather than leaving me with the impression that you stormed off in a huff - it makes me feel like I can't trust you. And I feel that it's devisive.
(spelling?)
Greg, I don't think you really did anything wrong.
I'm just including you here cuz you were part of the conversation here and we had kind of a biggie on Pritzker's posting yesterday.I don't want to get in a big deal about this, but at least Greg, you and I had the guts to have "words" with each other to each other's faces, rather than behind the other's backs.
But I must say, it's ironic that these words about me showed up in a posting advising someone else on how to deal with other people walking on eggshells...Lei (Pritzker,) it makes me feel like you're walking on a few eggshells yourself.
Please, Lei, next time say it to my face.
Caroline
Posted by coral on October 15, 2000, at 8:20:01
In reply to Re: Walking On Eggshells:On Caroline Greg, Lei » Greg, posted by chdurie2 on October 12, 2000, at 11:16:32
To all,
First, I'd like to thank everyone who have shared their stories, struggles and triumphs. The courage is so wonderful to see and truly an inspiration. In the bad moments, I see myself, at 49, not having accomplished so many things I wanted to and think "What's the use?" Then, I read stories of people my age who are embracing the challenges with such grace, vitality and vigor that it truly helps me see that I'm ONLY 49 with the rest of my life ahead of me! Thank you.My sister, who has BPD, is openly hostile to my having been depressed w/anxiety/panic attacks. She considers it a weakness and gets absolutely vitriolic. So, I've not mentioned the second episode (thank God we live a couple of hundred miles apart). When depressed, I withdraw. My husband is a wonderful support and I keep him apprised of the progress, letting him know what can help and what will harm. He also is very honest with me and I rely on him as a observer to help me determine my progress. I'm bored to tears with "getting well" and am impatient and intolerant with myself if I don't consciously be kind to me. I celebrate the small victories - last night was the first night (during this second depressive episode) that I slept without Librium or Ambien. Back to the original question: for me, the depression/anxiety/panic is like having a broken leg. I know what I can and can't do in the various stages of recovery - with the cast and crutches, with a walking cast, etc., and it's my responsibility to be true to myself. Healing is my most important priority because if I don't, I'll wind up screwing up the rest of my life!
This is the end of the thread.
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