![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by justyourlaugh on December 13, 2003, at 14:22:29
In reply to BSJ...interesting theory but..., posted by Lindsay Rae on December 13, 2003, at 12:40:40
even though i have no reading skills..
j
Posted by craig allen on December 19, 2003, at 16:33:33
In reply to Re: Dr Bob should rename this the opiate forum!, posted by bsj on December 7, 2003, at 22:23:05
> "knowing this,,
> why then do you say a fine line?..
> to me its a clear difference..
> yourself expresssed it.."
>
> The comparison I made wasn't between those like me and those just looking for kicks on opiates; I compared myself to those who become heroin, etc. addicts because of brain chemistry defects. They're doing the same thing I'm doing, but without the benefit of knowing the dangers of the drugs; and they unwittingly descend into massive dose escalation and deep physical dependence. The key, really, isn't willpower; it's knowledge of and respect for the drugs. If I didn't take holidays, I know without a doubt that the effects I get from 10mg of hydrocodone wouldn't last long; I'd soon need 20mg, 50mg, 100mg to get the same effect. I've talked to people who need 200mg of hydro just to feel any effect whatsoever; and of course they've been scarfing the pills everyday for a year or more.i haven't taken opiates for several years. during that time, i've tried too many anti-depressants to list - mood stabilizers, anti psychotics and benzos too. nothing has been significantly helpful. recently, i tried to find a doctor who would prescribe buprenorphine for me (as an anti-depressant) but i was not successful. opiates are the only thing that have ever helped my mood, but, like many, i've never been able to beat the whole tolerance/withdrawal game. when i use opiates, things ultimately get worse. recently i ordered up some ultram and i'm expecting it to arrive any day now. assuming that the ultram works for me (i've never taken it), i want to be able to get the anti-depressant benefits from it consistently. i think your method of "opiate holidays" is the only way i'm going to be able to do this. please let me know how often you take these holidays and how long you abstain for. any other tips would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on December 19, 2003, at 21:52:37
In reply to question on opiate holidays for bsj, posted by craig allen on December 19, 2003, at 16:33:33
Hi Craig--I know you weren't addressing me with this question, but I would like to take a stab at it since I have too much experience and knowledge concerning this topic. I did both: I took opiates consistently for three years with the antidepressant effects working well without upping my dose, and after the three years I met someone who introduced me to Oxycontin and Heroin, respectively. I had a child with this man and lost him within two years. He was 27, and he died four weeks ago today from an opiate/benzo combination (I think) just before entering rehab. That said, Ultram doesn't work like Vicodin, Percoset, and the like. I don't even think it's an opiate; it was just recently classified as a narcotic, and even that is questionable. I know a couple of people who like taking them because they've experienced weight loss, but that's about it. I had a bottle of it and traded it for Darvocet back in 2000. Perhaps it's all in the mind, but I distictly remember feeling "an exaggerated sense of wellbeing," which is an actual warning under "side effects." Now how can you beat that for depression? I wholeheartedly want to believe that people like you and I NEED a synthetic opiate to feel "normal," but unfortunately it's not at the top of the Medical Journals' lists to prove or even research this theory. And until they do, it remains just that--a theory. I would give anything to go back to '99, when I first discovered that taking one Darvocet was the hidden key to unlocking peace and comfort in my own head. I could take one before class and really enjoy discussing the various literature pieces I studied on the path to getting my English Lit BA degree. In one fell swoop, I became pregnant, was placed on Methadone, and lost my fiance to the drooling jaws of addiction. Sorry to get off topic, but I guess that's how I introduce myself now. Shoot me an email if you think I'm qualified to answer your questions about opiates.
Peace,
Lindsay
> i haven't taken opiates for several years. during that time, i've tried too many anti-depressants to list - mood stabilizers, anti psychotics and benzos too. nothing has been significantly helpful. recently, i tried to find a doctor who would prescribe buprenorphine for me (as an anti-depressant) but i was not successful. opiates are the only thing that have ever helped my mood, but, like many, i've never been able to beat the whole tolerance/withdrawal game. when i use opiates, things ultimately get worse. recently i ordered up some ultram and i'm expecting it to arrive any day now. assuming that the ultram works for me (i've never taken it), i want to be able to get the anti-depressant benefits from it consistently. i think your method of "opiate holidays" is the only way i'm going to be able to do this. please let me know how often you take these holidays and how long you abstain for. any other tips would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
Posted by craig allen on December 23, 2003, at 22:58:24
In reply to Hey Craig, posted by Lindsay Rae on December 19, 2003, at 21:52:37
wow, that's some story you've got. thanks for sharing it. i did receive the ultram - they did absolutely nothing. i obtained some hydrocodone and have been taking that for the past several days. as always, the effect it has on my mood is profound. to actually be in a good mood is such a wonderful thing. i'm walking on a tightrope though, the jaws of addiction are going to do their thing i'm afraid. my only hope at the moment is that i found an online source for burpenorphine. i ordered 75 0.2mg tablets. hopefully, i'll be able to use that drug successfully. i'll believe it when i see it. i'll keep you posted if you're interested.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on December 25, 2003, at 11:37:32
In reply to Re: Hey Craig » Lindsay Rae , posted by craig allen on December 23, 2003, at 22:58:24
That sounds great Craig, although Bup is mainly used as a tool for getting off opiates with little to no discomfort. This drug is a partial agonist, which basically means that it has a ceiling level (usually around 32 mg), and you don't want to go above that level or it will start to work against itself. This is because it is also a partial antagonist. Here is a really good explaination by someone who has taken the drug and has researched it extensively.
http://www.geocities.com/nephalim1327/Bupe-FAQ-Final-2.htm
Just copy and paste that address into the window.
Lindsay
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 26, 2003, at 16:00:57
In reply to Re: Hey Craig, posted by Lindsay Rae on December 25, 2003, at 11:37:32
hi craig...yes it is a tightrope walk..are you up to that? ultram won't do anything if you are already acquainted with opiates. bup may be OK, but with a history of dependancy then i'd be leery. it can take you right back if you're not careful. if you feel that you can take the "drug holiday" then that would be best...
Posted by craig allen on December 29, 2003, at 19:30:49
In reply to Re: Hey Craig, posted by krazybirdlady on December 26, 2003, at 16:00:57
well, keeping you posted as promised. because of my history of opiate addiction, i haven't told any of my family or friends about my current "relapse." it's nice to have somewhere to go to tell what's going on, even if it's a message board. just to re-cap, i have struggled with depression for years and i've been sober for the last 3 years plus. a couple weeks ago i got to feeling real desperate to feel like a normal human being, so i scored some vicodin. it worked great for a week or two, but over the past several days, the wheels have come off. i was up to 12-15 vicodin E.S. per day. then feeling strung out and constipated shortly after that. i cut back yesterday to 4 pills, but felt so bad today that i took a total of 9 pills throughout the day. i'm getting brief periods of relief after i take a few pills, but the rest of the time i feel that weird, horrible opiate withdrawal depression. it makes my regular depression seem like a walk in the park. all this in just a few weeks and with a relatively modest habit. i'm pretty scared. i'm thinking that tomorrow i'll call around and see if i can get in to see an "addictionologist" to get on buprenorphine on an out patient basis. i hope i can get into to see someone quickly.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on December 30, 2003, at 10:03:18
In reply to i fell off the tightrope , posted by craig allen on December 29, 2003, at 19:30:49
I'm right there with you Craig! There are a couple of other message boards I take solace in, and those are WeSpeakMethadone (also about Bup) and the Methadone Interzone. The people on those boards really understand what it feels like to need opiates as antidepressants. I've been on Methadone for pain as well as a crutch for my mood disorder, but I think Bup is right up your alley.
As for the questions directed at me, I've been on Methadone for just over two years. I took Vicodin and the like for about three years, but oddly, I never exceeded three pills per day. Granted, I would go out and drink at night, but it never occured to me to take more pills. I know that sounds odd, but it's just what I needed to feel right--one pill at a time. In October of 2001, I met Chris, who introduced me to crushing Oxycontin and snorting them, then directly to it's shady cousin, H. I had just gotten myself in over my head financially, with a lease car payment, new appartment, and all that goes with it, blindly making commitments before I had secured a job in this area. I just knew I had friends there, and I made erratic decisions in my manic state. Chris' house was like an escape to heaven. He'd tie me off and shoot that warm liquid in my vein, and the problems disappeared. We became junkie lovers, but after only a month I was sucked dry, in worse financial shape than ever. Chris brought me to his Methadone clinic so I wouldn't be sick when we couldn't score, but I kept going up on my dose until I couldn't feel the dope anymore. So I was actively looking for employment, and he was still spending every waking moment hustling for more drugs, dragging me through the hood to score crack to melt with lemon juice and inject. Thousands of dollars worth of crap at a time. I became pregnant, and I left for obvious reasons. But there is no detoxing off Methadone when you are pregnant. The fetus could not survive the withdrawal. As the pregnancy progressed, my dose kept rising, from a modest 70 mg to a whopping 120 mg. But like many others in my shoes, it was a life saving drug for me. I don't get "high" from my daily dose. But I don't feel sick or crave opiates either.
In order to get on Bup, I would have to taper down to 30 mg and still withstand painful withdrawal as the Bup flushes the Methadone off of those receptors. Bup is best for someone on a very low dose of Meth, or someone just coming off of Heroin. I hope I cleared that all up!
Peace,
Linds
Posted by Lindsay Rae on December 30, 2003, at 14:57:40
In reply to Re: Hey Craig » Lindsay Rae , posted by craig allen on December 23, 2003, at 22:58:24
Yeah, definately keep me posted on the Bup. Do you know if it is Subutex or Suboxone? Suboxone contains Naltrexone, but it's antagonist properties are only there to keep you from going above the "ceiling" level. So far, that's the only one that is approved in the U.S., but there really isn't a difference between the two. Most people level off at around 8 mg, with a maximum of 32 mg, but unlike other opiates, "the more the better" doesn't apply with Buprenorphine, so find your dose and stay there! Otherwise it can have adverse effects and send your body into withdrawal. You sound like me though; without the opiate, you just don't feel good about life. My family argues that I did that to my own wiring by taking the drugs in the first place, but I know how I felt when I was a teenager on up, until I was 22 and discovered the painkillers. I figured out real quick that they blocked the signals that allow you to feel pain and also triggered the dopamine and endorphins that make you feel good. I did a lot of research on opiates and ecstacy, since most of my friends were getting heavily involved in the latter.
Anyway, sorry to go on and on...I had the flu with pneumonia last week and took a trip to the ER when my fever spiked to 104 with Tylenol. They gave me this cough syrup that supposedly has Codeine in it, but it's called Hycodan (hydrocodon/HOM, whatever that means). Codeine makes me sick, but it doesn't sound like it has Codeine in it. I don't know...I'm sure I'll try it.
Take Care,
Lindsay> wow, that's some story you've got. thanks for sharing it. i did receive the ultram - they did absolutely nothing. i obtained some hydrocodone and have been taking that for the past several days. as always, the effect it has on my mood is profound. to actually be in a good mood is such a wonderful thing. i'm walking on a tightrope though, the jaws of addiction are going to do their thing i'm afraid. my only hope at the moment is that i found an online source for burpenorphine. i ordered 75 0.2mg tablets. hopefully, i'll be able to use that drug successfully. i'll believe it when i see it. i'll keep you posted if you're interested.
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 30, 2003, at 19:30:58
In reply to Re: i fell off the tightrope , posted by Lindsay Rae on December 30, 2003, at 10:03:18
hi lindsay...just a note to let you know that Hycodan is hydrocodone. much stronger than the codiene but maybe not quite as bad as oxycodone. anyway it is a narcotic. as for the sub, yes that is the latest form of detox, but i have read on many boards that it is harder to come off than meth or bup, don't really know for sure as it's other peoples opinions...
Posted by craig allen on December 30, 2003, at 20:42:16
In reply to Re: i fell off the tightrope , posted by Lindsay Rae on December 30, 2003, at 10:03:18
hey lindsay, thanks for the support. interesting story you've got there. i can certainly relate to parts of it. today i called a doctor in my area who puts a lot of people on suboxone. they require a three night hospital stay to get you started and told me i can check in this friday if i would like to. the plan would be to detox me with the sub on then prescribe it for me for maintenance. i was hoping i'd be able to get on the sub without a hospital stay, but i think i'm going to not look a gift horse in the mouth. i'm planning on going in on friday. in the meantime, i'm trying to stay in between withdrawal and nausea (this hydrocodone has a tendency to make me feel sea sick). it's weird, on the one hand, i feel hopeful that my depression will be better once i'm on suboxone. and on the other hand, i'm ashamed and embarassed to be going back into detox after being sober and mostly functional for the past 3 years. i got to take care of myself though, no way around that. thanks again for your support.
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 31, 2003, at 13:28:00
In reply to Re: Lindsay » Lindsay Rae , posted by craig allen on December 30, 2003, at 20:42:16
craig, just wanted to wish you the best...my heart is with you.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on December 31, 2003, at 16:33:37
In reply to Re: i fell off the tightrope , posted by krazybirdlady on December 30, 2003, at 19:30:58
Actually, kbl, Suboxone IS Bup, it's just the brand name (ie Vicodin is brand name for Hydrocodone), and it's a joke to come off of compared to Methadone. That's why most people are going that route as opposed to the "liquid handcuffs" you get with Methadone. The pharmacist told me this liquid is Codeine, but again, it says Hydrocodon/HOM, so I'm thinking it has that in it. Oxycodone is only Percoset, no stronger than Vicodin. It's Oxycontin you gotta watch out for!
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 31, 2003, at 16:40:20
In reply to krazybirdlady, posted by Lindsay Rae on December 31, 2003, at 16:33:37
well, there are some chemical differences in sub and bup..as well as in hydro and oxy...but i am suprised that they prescribed you hydro knowing that you are on methodone. hydro (as with codiene AND oxy) are antitissutives, in other words they relieve an unproductive cough. did you take the hycodan? did it help? i hope you are feeling better..
Posted by krazybirdlady on December 31, 2003, at 16:50:36
In reply to Re: krazybirdlady, posted by krazybirdlady on December 31, 2003, at 16:40:20
oxycodone is immediate release (usually compounded with an analgesic). oxycontin is extended release and is NOT compounded with any analgesic. Same drug...just don't crush oxycontin...it is supposed to last 12 hrs. as opposed to oxycodone (percocet), which is supposed to last 4 to 6 hrs.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on January 3, 2004, at 19:04:06
In reply to PS. oxycodone is Oxycontin..., posted by krazybirdlady on December 31, 2003, at 16:50:36
>Yes, I know they are the same drug, but Oxycontin is much more easily abused because the protective coating can be removed, and the powder is then snorted or injected by the user. People who want to abuse it simply suck or rinse off the time release coating and get it all at once, making it far more dangerous than Oxycodone.
oxycodone is immediate release (usually compounded with an analgesic). oxycontin is extended release and is NOT compounded with any analgesic. Same drug...just don't crush oxycontin...it is supposed to last 12 hrs. as opposed to oxycodone (percocet), which is supposed to last 4 to 6 hrs.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on January 3, 2004, at 21:00:25
In reply to Re: krazybirdlady, posted by krazybirdlady on December 31, 2003, at 16:40:20
> well, there are some chemical differences in sub and bup..as well as in hydro and oxy...but i am suprised that they prescribed you hydro knowing that you are on methodone. hydro (as with codiene AND oxy) are antitissutives, in other words they relieve an unproductive cough. did you take the hycodan? did it help? i hope you are feeling better..
Thank you for your well wishes. Do you mind if I ask why you are suprised that they prescribed cough medicine with a narcotic knowing I'm on Methadone? I only ask because there is a heavy misunderstanding in the medical community that people on MMT can't take narcotic pain relievers. In fact, we need MORE of the medication because of the tolerance built up from daily doses of Methadone. For example, when I had an emergency C-Section last September, I was given an epidural with Demorph (Demerol + Morphine) that should have lasted at least 24 hours. I was writhing in pain in just two. I felt like someone was ripping out my abdomen (which, essentially, they had), but a normal level of narcotic was not enough. Luckily, I had an OB/GYN who was knowledgeable about Methadone, but most people aren't so lucky. There's a post from another board I'd like you to read from a nurse who served as a true advocate in a situation like this. I'll search for it...
Lindsay
Posted by Lindsay Rae on January 3, 2004, at 21:52:56
In reply to Re: PS. oxycodone is Oxycontin..., posted by Lindsay Rae on January 3, 2004, at 19:04:06
I'll try to make this post as short as possible. However, I am going to tell you all something that has really struck me as horrible about our medical facilities. First, I have worked in a hospital as an RN for seven years. Last night I believe that I had one of the best and worst nights of my nursing career. In order to protect my patient's confidentiality, I will call my patient "Joe." Anyway, Joe came to me from the cardiac intensive care unit(CICU) last night around 11:45pm. He was confused and I got a report from the CICU nurse that he had been in the hospital since 12/23. He had since been restrained, on and off, for the duration of about a week because he had been "confused and beligerant, violent and aggitated". Of course, I'm told, this was for his own good and to protect his IV lines and such. His wrists were quite red and irritated (which is quite minor in comparison to his other issues, nevertheless, he had been soft restrained at the wrists and ankles).
My big issue is this. . . . He had not gotten his methadone dose since 12/23! I couldn't believe my ears when the CICU nurse told me that he was an MMT patient, and that he hadn't gotten his dose since 12/23. What is wrong with our doctors? What is wrong with the CICU nurses that have only 1-2 patients? I held these nurses in high regard until this incident. Anyway, I scoured his chart for any information about his methadone maintenance that I could find. I wanted to make sure that no doctor I knew would deny a patient his methadone. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that he had come into the hospital with a possible "drug overdose." He was found unresponsive by his wife in a pool of blood coming from his rectum. Obviously this patient had lost a lot of blood and had a GI bleed.I called his wife on the phone to get more details and I became more and more horrified as I spoke to her. She told me that as soon as she told the paramedics that he was an MMT patient, they gave him Narcan. He instantly went into withdrawl. She tried in vane for days to tell them and anyone else that would listen to her that he did not have a drug overdose as he had not left the house for three days, and he could not have Narcan. Upon his arrival at the hospital they did a drug screen to find that he was positive for cocaine. (His wife states that he was in to see his doctor earlier in the week and had his dose increased because he had used earlier that week). Am I being naive? Is that true?
I'm trying not to drag this out, but I want you all to understand the full story. Sorry.
Anyway, he had been in the hospital for eight days when I got him. I spoke with Joe in a very calm voice and told him that I was there to help, not to harm him. I explained to him that I knew he was on methadone and I would do anything that I could to get his his dose by 12:30am. At first, he almost cried to find that I knew he was on methadone, for it was his belief that he would no longer get any pain medication whatsoever. He was only getting small doses of morphine. 1-2mg an hour. (Several nurses since told me that this morphine was a replacement for his methadone and that I was basically overreacting. I told them otherwise.) I don't know when the last dose was given to him. It had been so long. Anyway, I instantly got on the phone to the intern that was covering for his doctor and demanded that this issue of no methadone be addressed NOW! His confusion was possibly and probably because he had not received any dose for seven days. And, it was written in his chart that they were delaying treatment due to his confusion. (What a viscious cycle). She ordered him his dose to be given every day. I was happy with that. But, the pharmacist called to tell me that he would not dispense it because federal regulations don't allow him to dispense methadone from the hospital for maintenance. I then demanded he dispense at least the next two days worth because I know from reading on this site that it is possible despite the federal regulations, just long enough to get the dose started from his mmt program. The ironic twist here is that his mmt program has been contacted on day one of his admission. They attempted to get in touch with Joe's doctor but of course, Joe's doctor is too busy except to write in his chart that he has a substance abuse problem, that he is recovering, and leave it at that. Nothing further has been done. The other ironic twist is that this doctor is my husband's doctor also. My husband is the reason I visit this site. He's an MMT patient. I need to find another doctor for my husband ASAP. He's been in the hospital for pancreatitis prior to his methadone program and he now is reactive to Hep C. I don't want this to happen to him. Of course, I will be the assertive one yelling and stomping my feet until he gets his dose. But, I just couldn't believe all this mess.
In the end, I wrote a long and quite rude note to the doctor, taped it to the front of the chart so it won't be missed, and told them that if this patient isn't given his methadone here in the hospital, you can count on a lawsuit from the family because he will possibly walk out, kill himself, or go use as soon as he's discharged. And, I also wrote down the number to Joe's methadone facility so that they can get in contact and get this man his dose.
Joe rested quietly without restraints for the duration of the night after he got his dose of methadone at 12:30am. He had no confusion and he thanked me every time I went in to see him. That's what nursing is all about. I feel like I helped him. But my question is. . . is this happening everywhere?
Sorry this is so long. I wanted you all to understand that there are nurses out there who do care. There are also idiots who think that morphine will suffice instead of methadone. I have since educated them that a patient needs both methadone AND additional pain medication for any pain. Thank you all for listening to my gripe.
Kim Ann
Posted by krazybirdlady on January 4, 2004, at 18:43:58
In reply to Testimony of an RN named Kim Ann, posted by Lindsay Rae on January 3, 2004, at 21:52:56
hi Lindsay, first you are absolutely correct about the oxycontin. second, the reason i was suprised about the hycodan is because the medical community tends to run scared when faced with combining narcotics. also, because (and i hope i remembered your original post correctly) you stated you were quite sick with the flu? usually the cough is productive, and should be encouraged to clear your lungs. something like hycodan is usually only prescribed if the cough is lingering and keeping you up at night. Given with an antibiotic. third, the story you attached was horrendous. i wish i could say it shocked me, but...sigh....it didn't...
Posted by KimberlyDi on January 12, 2004, at 16:28:18
In reply to Re: Lindsay » Lindsay Rae , posted by craig allen on December 30, 2003, at 20:42:16
Shame is what can keep you from coming back from a slip, a bump, a fall off the wagon. You have the desire to live sober, and did so for 3 years. Be proud of that and forgive yourself.
GOod Luck!!
KDi in TX> hey lindsay, thanks for the support. interesting story you've got there. i can certainly relate to parts of it. today i called a doctor in my area who puts a lot of people on suboxone. they require a three night hospital stay to get you started and told me i can check in this friday if i would like to. the plan would be to detox me with the sub on then prescribe it for me for maintenance. i was hoping i'd be able to get on the sub without a hospital stay, but i think i'm going to not look a gift horse in the mouth. i'm planning on going in on friday. in the meantime, i'm trying to stay in between withdrawal and nausea (this hydrocodone has a tendency to make me feel sea sick). it's weird, on the one hand, i feel hopeful that my depression will be better once i'm on suboxone. and on the other hand, i'm ashamed and embarassed to be going back into detox after being sober and mostly functional for the past 3 years. i got to take care of myself though, no way around that. thanks again for your support.
Posted by craig allen on January 21, 2004, at 16:06:13
In reply to Craig » craig allen, posted by KimberlyDi on January 12, 2004, at 16:28:18
just wanted to stop back in and update this thread. i did go in to detox and was put on suboxone. it helped with the immediate discomfort - no surprise since it is an opiate. what was kind of surprising, is that it after the first few days of being on it, it became uncomfortable. i felt nauseous, sedated and constipated from the suboxone. the idea was to have me on the drug for maintenance therapy (indefinitely), but after trying different doses for about a week, my doctor and i decided it just wasn't going to work for me. so i weened off (took my last 1mg dose last friday before work). today is wednesday, and i'm in a world of detox-depression hurt. i don't know if anyone can relate, but it feels like everything is black and gloomy and intensely sad. i feel like i'm constantly on the verge of tears. i'd cry if i thought it would do any good. anyhow, the doctor told me that the suboxone has such a long half life, that you don't experience the detox from it as quickly as you would from most opiates. i started to feel depressed like this on monday (day before yesterday). normally, in coming off opiates, i'd be starting to feel better by the fifth day. but not with this drug. all in all, pretty disappointing. i finally got on opiate treatment, which i'd been trying to do for some time, and it bombed out. and now i'm feeling intensely depressed from the after effects of the experiment. thanks for listening. support would be hugely appreciated especially if anyone has experience coming off suboxone.
Posted by MMT's Daughter on February 6, 2004, at 22:05:30
In reply to Testimony of an RN named Kim Ann, posted by Lindsay Rae on January 3, 2004, at 21:52:56
*Possible cover up by many it feels*
December 30th my father colapsed out in his driveway.. reports from accross the street indicated that He got out of his truck and collapsed.The neighbor then called 911. When the ambulance arrived as well as the police officer they knocked on my father's door, my mother came to the door and was asked to come outside. When she was taken to my father the paramedics where taking his vital signs he was unconcious. The paramedic asked my mother about the methadone bottle that they had found in his truck... He was on take outs.** and my mother stated that he was a methadone patient, and they said he had OD'd on something... When we arrived at the hospital we found out they had given him Narcan... a big no no...stated he had cocaine in his blood test as well as anti depressents. Hours later he was having Grandma seizures, later finding out he had seized in the ambulance. )Now the paramedics knew He was a MMT)... why would they give Him narcan? He ended up in a state of coma, and in the End on Jan 2 2004 we had to pull the plug. The meds that they adminitered in the ICU deteriorated most of his organs and the seizures that He got was said what made it impossible for him to live. As well he had a record breaking fever of 109.6 the highest that nurse in twenty years serving in that hospital ever saw. He seized all night and I had to send my family away. The proccess of what happened to his body had grown unbearable for them... and him ever coming out of what happened was impossible...I ask how they can do this and get away with it? My family has been torn and still to this very day is fighting for any justice at all possible... we dont know the steps to take to actually do anything about this....I pray that in this post You find a way to get an arm band alert or a card that specifically states you cannot have narcan... for this is the only thing stopping us from a lawsuit.. what of my mother telling them he was a methadone patient you may ask? Well they say there was no info given. That alone as well as a few other things in this case that speciffically make us feel it is a cover up of sorts. Accident? We don't think so. That my friends is how they treat those that are only *different* I'm afriad dont let yourself fall victim.. no matter the social cost..
Posted by craig allen on February 7, 2004, at 11:30:27
In reply to Re: Testimony of an RN named Kim Ann, posted by MMT's Daughter on February 6, 2004, at 22:05:30
horrible story. sorry to hear you had to go through that. your dad too. hard to make sense of things sometimes.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on February 7, 2004, at 21:55:45
In reply to Re: Testimony of an RN named Kim Ann, posted by MMT's Daughter on February 6, 2004, at 22:05:30
> If you don't mind, I'm going to copy your post onto the We Speak Methadone board, an official NAMA site, and the Watchdog board for Methadone fair treatment acts. What happened to your father was indeed malpractice to say the very least.
My fiance, the father of my 16 month old princess, was on MMT for years, but he detoxed involuntarily in jail and went right back to using dope when he got out, as his father wouldn't allow him to go back to Methadone. Last November, he got a hold of some Methadone, but instead of taking a normal dose to stay well, he took quite a bit more along with some Xanax. In his case, Narcan would have saved his life, although it would have been unpleasant. He passed away at age twenty seven.
When your father collapsed, and your mother told the paramedics he had taken Methadone, they might have assumed that he had overdosed on Methadone and introduced the Narcan to counteract the supposed overdose. As a Methadone patient receiving daily doses, Narcan is the LAST thing he should have been exposed to. What they did was put him through UROD without his consent, and that is grounds for a lawsuit in my opinion. I am going to see what kind of help is available to you.
Sincerely,,,,
Lindsay
*Possible cover up by many it feels*
>
> December 30th my father colapsed out in his driveway.. reports from accross the street indicated that He got out of his truck and collapsed.The neighbor then called 911. When the ambulance arrived as well as the police officer they knocked on my father's door, my mother came to the door and was asked to come outside. When she was taken to my father the paramedics where taking his vital signs he was unconcious. The paramedic asked my mother about the methadone bottle that they had found in his truck... He was on take outs.** and my mother stated that he was a methadone patient, and they said he had OD'd on something... When we arrived at the hospital we found out they had given him Narcan... a big no no...stated he had cocaine in his blood test as well as anti depressents. Hours later he was having Grandma seizures, later finding out he had seized in the ambulance. )Now the paramedics knew He was a MMT)... why would they give Him narcan? He ended up in a state of coma, and in the End on Jan 2 2004 we had to pull the plug. The meds that they adminitered in the ICU deteriorated most of his organs and the seizures that He got was said what made it impossible for him to live. As well he had a record breaking fever of 109.6 the highest that nurse in twenty years serving in that hospital ever saw. He seized all night and I had to send my family away. The proccess of what happened to his body had grown unbearable for them... and him ever coming out of what happened was impossible...I ask how they can do this and get away with it? My family has been torn and still to this very day is fighting for any justice at all possible... we dont know the steps to take to actually do anything about this....I pray that in this post You find a way to get an arm band alert or a card that specifically states you cannot have narcan... for this is the only thing stopping us from a lawsuit.. what of my mother telling them he was a methadone patient you may ask? Well they say there was no info given. That alone as well as a few other things in this case that speciffically make us feel it is a cover up of sorts. Accident? We don't think so. That my friends is how they treat those that are only *different* I'm afriad dont let yourself fall victim.. no matter the social cost..
Posted by MMT's Daughter on February 7, 2004, at 22:04:46
In reply to Re: Testimony of an RN named Kim Ann, posted by Lindsay Rae on February 7, 2004, at 21:55:45
You may, move this posting in any way it would help. Lindsay I thank you for your compassion as well as any help you can give. As for the paramedics they where briefed that he was indeed a MMT a (patient)Thank you from the family... because I am at wit's end trying to figure out what I can do...... Raven
As for you and yours my heart goes out to you. Trials and tramas are harder on those around you then the emediate. *hugs*
This is the end of the thread.
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