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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 12:11:39
Folks,
I'm obsessing over having possibly taken meth last week and not knowing it (blacking out from alcohol first). I am not sure if anything short of a drug testing will allay my fears. At this point, I suspect the only test I could take would be of a hair sample.
Questions:
a) How expensive is this?
b) How /accurate/ is this?
c) How long does one have to wait before it would return an accurate positive/negative result?
Thanks,
amd
Posted by bart on August 18, 2005, at 20:43:15
In reply to drug testing for meth, posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 12:11:39
I've heard hair sample tests can detect drugs in the system for up to 5-6 months.
but I do believe it's an expensive test, so it seems likely some places or employers may not even mess with it
Posted by AMD on August 19, 2005, at 9:20:04
In reply to Re: drug testing for meth, posted by bart on August 18, 2005, at 20:43:15
Not worried about my employer, but rather trying to abate some of this excessive anxiety I'm feeling over the possibility I may have nasally insufflated this toxin.
amd
Posted by chemist on August 20, 2005, at 5:10:42
In reply to drug testing for meth, posted by AMD on August 18, 2005, at 12:11:39
hello there, chemist here...as for expense, it depends on the service requested and what substances are being sought.i do not know the cost, as my tests have been paid for by all of my employers to this day when required by law or volunteered. and i always make sure that we leave no loose ends, and thus establish that there is likely not a continual pattern of abuse nor one of even the most miniscule amount.
you should step things up and request a GC/MS (tandem, electrospray) multi-step examination of a urine sample in addition to the hair/fingernail sample.
while accuracy (and thus limits on uncertainty or error in measurement) is reported in reference to an arbitrary standard - and thus the amount present is inferred by using blanks and by spiking samples with well-quantified amounts of the substance(s) being sought (and the lower limit of detection need not be an issue, although this presumes that the spike amounts are correct).
residence times for methamphetamine use range from days to weeks, and hair and fingernail clippings in general contain a longer historical record - up to 5 months - but absolute error increases with time.
you can then report that you are clean to the ppb range for a short time and to the sub-ppm to ppm range for a long time....
depends on the lab, the test requested, the drugs being sought, and so forth. fortunately, many drug testing laboratoies offer services for drug testing in the workplace, emplying mobile labs. as a rule, an office visit is requested to ensure that the results done away from the lab are in fact valid.
good luck and best wishes! all the best, chemist
> Folks,
>
> I'm obsessing over having possibly taken meth last week and not knowing it (blacking out from alcohol first). I am not sure if anything short of a drug testing will allay my fears. At this point, I suspect the only test I could take would be of a hair sample.
>
> Questions:
>
> a) How expensive is this?
>
> b) How /accurate/ is this?
>
> c) How long does one have to wait before it would return an accurate positive/negative result?
>
> Thanks,
>
> amd
Posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 19:03:27
In reply to Re: drug testing for meth » AMD, posted by chemist on August 20, 2005, at 5:10:42
I think you're being silly. Please don't feel put down, it's not intended that way.
Why don't you just assume you *did* take meth, since it is hard to convince you that you didn't. That way you've assumed the worst and, well, what follows then?
Maybe you need to perform some penance? Any ideas on what would do? AA or NA's a good start, but too much for me. (I was actually at a dealers once and this bloke comes in asking for just a small deal of heroin because he was off to an NA meeting. I thought that's me, that's how I'd handle it too.)
How about jogging or going to the gym? Can you think of something that is good for you and reasonably unpleasant?
Maybe I'm being silly.
Declan
Posted by ClearSkies on August 20, 2005, at 21:32:50
In reply to Re: drug testing for meth, posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 19:03:27
Jeez, if penance was all it took to feel better, then I cleaned all the toilets in the house for *nothing*??!!
ClearSkies
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 0:15:24
In reply to Re: drug testing for meth » Declan, posted by ClearSkies on August 20, 2005, at 21:32:50
Well clearly you're a woman. No bloke ever cleans the toilets for nothing. Maybe women have a higher level of what constitutes a penance. I don't think housework will do it for you. I think I better get out of here.
Declan
Posted by AMD on August 21, 2005, at 13:42:35
In reply to Re: drug testing for meth, posted by Declan on August 20, 2005, at 19:03:27
You're not being silly, you're being reasonable. I am assuming I did it -- and thus I'm worried that, because I feel so, so horrible right now, I did some permanent damage.
Let me ask you a question. Would doing methamphetamine -- and if I did it, it was likely a small amount, as I still collapsed from the alcohol -- cause long-term sequelae? I ask because I read a post from someone else who claimed he did it one time and, fifteen years later, he's still feeling miserable.
Right now I feel:
- Depressed, in the most extreme way
- Fatigued
- Cognitively blunted, and completely uncreative
- This obsessive need to keep rubbing the bottom of my nose
- A weird tic where I want to scratch my foreheadThe first three are, I suspect, related to the depression. The other two are freaking me out. I can't rid myself of these tics. Is this dopamine depletion? Temporary? Are there medicines I can take to relieve me of this pain?
I am absolutely miserable right now. I can't imagine holding myself together much longer, and I feel like I'm on the verge of a mental and emotional collapse.
I need relief /now/. What can I do? Are there any over-the-counter supplements I could take to calm me down? I took Xanax last night, which didn't help at all. I have Zyprexa, but that just seemed to make the tics worse, without lifting the depression.
I look around and see all these happy people, laughing, walking down the streets of Manhattan enjoying a sunny, lightly humid day, and I realize how horrible I must look, how sad and depressed I feel. I just need some help right now.
I can't even write well. I feel like my (simple-minded) thoughts are spilling through the keyboard, and I'm convinced the methamphetamine is to blame. Did I drop by I.Q. significantly, and am I doomed to a life of mediocrity?
Finally, I feel "nuts." I really feel like I am going crazy. I am dignosed bipolar II (two doctors said bipolar I), and need some help.
HELP!
amd
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 16:19:23
In reply to MISERY » Declan, posted by AMD on August 21, 2005, at 13:42:35
Hi AMD
I don't think methamphetamine's *that* bad (compared to psychdrugs), it was widely available for 30 years or so. But of course it's terrible stuff in the absolute sense.
But it might not be the only thing depleting your dopamine, I think Celexa can do that or the equivalent. So Linkadge says anyway, maybe you've read his posts on that. I don't think you should take psychdrugs unless they really help you.
(I'm taking Parnate for depression, about a 6th of the normal dose. That's OK because its a low dose and it does something useful.)
I suspect you need a dopaminergic med that makes you feel a *little* better. And then you have to look after yourself and take as few drugs as possible. I mean maybe you are bipolar, but it is easy enough to go off to the doc and get diagnosed and treated with *those* drugs. No doctor is going to Rx you coca leaf, but I'll bet you anything it would be better for you than what you are currently on. Note I said coca leaf, not cocaine. There's a lot of politics built in to all this.
But since you're not gonna get that why not read up on the use of low dose deprenyl, the liquid sort, deprenyl citrate 1-3mg/d. (I've taken it for years). And as for the other things, Celexa, Topomax was it, Zyprexa......only use them if you are sure they help you and use the lowest effective dose. Ditto Xanax, but it's a simpler sort of action.
The only other thing I can suggest is to accept a certain level of misery as being part of life. ie you are aware of it but not affected by, at least not too badly.
And if you feel awful all the time it's not so surprising that eventually you say bugger it, I wanna have a line and a couple of drinks. So you have to think what it is that you can do about that feeling of awfulness. But that's what we're talking about here, right?
Anyway, good luck.
Declan
Posted by AMD on August 22, 2005, at 8:04:48
In reply to Re: MISERY » AMD, posted by Declan on August 21, 2005, at 16:19:23
Declan,
I'm upset because I know I can feel bright and normal, and I'm having a hard time believing that one more night of excess took all that away. Possible?
I was programming yesterday and thought, wow, my head is jumbled. I went to the gym, and afterward felt a bit better. This morning I woke up without the usual tiredness, but I still feel a slight fog. That said, I'm hoping the worst is behind me now.
It's been more than a week, so this is the longest I've had to fight the post-use blues in a long time. And the nature of this swing feels different. I am hoping my cognitive functioning will continue to improve, because although I've complained about it before, this time I truly feel impaired. Do I sound it? As I can actually see the results of it in decreased performance at work, blips in memory, and an inability to plan and execute a logical path.
Let's say I did methamphetamine: would that have killed off so many dopamine cells, or harmed my prefrontal cortex and/or hippocampus in such a way as to permanently inhibit my cognition? Why am I freaking out about methamphetamine? I know it's toxic in a way no other drug is -- at least according to the literature -- and I suppose I can't get that tidbit out of my mind.
I'm going to go running today, and I hope it helps a bit.
I also have a new doctor who specializes in comorbid bipolar and substance abuse.
Are mathematical/logic skills -- those on which I pride myself -- more hindered by this type of drug/alcohol use? What about memory? I feel like I'm having difficult with recall.
Am I annoying the f*** out of you with these questions yet? ;-)
amd
> Hi AMD
>
> I don't think methamphetamine's *that* bad (compared to psychdrugs), it was widely available for 30 years or so. But of course it's terrible stuff in the absolute sense.
>
> But it might not be the only thing depleting your dopamine, I think Celexa can do that or the equivalent. So Linkadge says anyway, maybe you've read his posts on that. I don't think you should take psychdrugs unless they really help you.
>
> (I'm taking Parnate for depression, about a 6th of the normal dose. That's OK because its a low dose and it does something useful.)
>
> I suspect you need a dopaminergic med that makes you feel a *little* better. And then you have to look after yourself and take as few drugs as possible. I mean maybe you are bipolar, but it is easy enough to go off to the doc and get diagnosed and treated with *those* drugs. No doctor is going to Rx you coca leaf, but I'll bet you anything it would be better for you than what you are currently on. Note I said coca leaf, not cocaine. There's a lot of politics built in to all this.
>
> But since you're not gonna get that why not read up on the use of low dose deprenyl, the liquid sort, deprenyl citrate 1-3mg/d. (I've taken it for years). And as for the other things, Celexa, Topomax was it, Zyprexa......only use them if you are sure they help you and use the lowest effective dose. Ditto Xanax, but it's a simpler sort of action.
>
> The only other thing I can suggest is to accept a certain level of misery as being part of life. ie you are aware of it but not affected by, at least not too badly.
>
> And if you feel awful all the time it's not so surprising that eventually you say bugger it, I wanna have a line and a couple of drinks. So you have to think what it is that you can do about that feeling of awfulness. But that's what we're talking about here, right?
>
> Anyway, good luck.
>
> Declan
Posted by Declan on August 30, 2005, at 2:10:10
In reply to Re: MISERY » Declan, posted by AMD on August 22, 2005, at 8:04:48
No you're not annoying me with any questions.
I was just worried about that post I put up for clearskies, so I hadn't read yours.
Now that you are feeling a bit better you probably know the answer to the question of maths/logic skills and the effect of drug use on them.
My guess is they would be among the first to be adversely effected.
Declan
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