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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMD on January 29, 2006, at 15:12:56
I fell off the wagon on Friday night, drank myself to blackout and ended up collapsing into bed at 2 a.m. with only a hazy recollection of the end of the night. I didn't use, at least.
All right: I slipped. But I'm not going to let it send me into a downward spiral. I was bored, went out and drank, thinking, "ah, it'll be fun," and now I'm paying for it.
It'd been about three months.
Now I'm back to my freaking-out-about-brain-damage-and-my-cognition phase, and sitting here depressed that I'll never be able to accomplish my goals. I feel like my planning and execution skills have diminished greatly over the past couple of months, and that this was the "capper." I can't analyze things like I could even one year ago, and I'm worried I've done permanent damage.
Is this going to haunt me for the rest of my life? With further absintence can I expect my cognition to improve once more?
I want to cry today from my inability to focus on even simple tasks, e.g, working on a small program. I feel like it's "gone," all my talent.
What do I do? Did this one night of drinking to excess cause permanent damage? I have felt zonked out all weekend, have been sweating today, and generally am very depressed. I think I'll make an appointment with my psychiatrist tomorrow.
The upside is that I feel, for once, like I have this more or less under control. I slipped, but I feel strong enough to move forward. I just worry, as I sit here focusing on my work, that at any moment I'll have a brain lock and be unable to complete my task, dominated instead by this depression and mental numbness. :-(
amd
Posted by James K on January 29, 2006, at 18:09:05
In reply to Fell off the wagon, posted by AMD on January 29, 2006, at 15:12:56
Hi, nice to meet you.
You've got the right attitude about just getting back on with it. I've slipped a several times of the last 7 months of actually giving a crap.I looked back up the board, and see that this cognitive disfunction is an ongoing concern of yours, so I don't want to minimize it in anyway. I also don't know your age or history or anything.
all I can offer is my experience, and that is that I've done way too much over the years, and my intellect is sound. My emotions are a problem though. If I overindulged at this point in my life to the extent it sounds like you did, I would expect to still be off a day and a half later. The interference with sleep combined with the toxins the metabolisation creates can stick around. I used to have terrible night sweats the second night after.
I don't think one more time did the last straw. But I'm glad you are okay physically and safe, and I hope your functioning soon returns to previous levels.
James K
Posted by deirdrehbrt on January 30, 2006, at 9:10:58
In reply to Fell off the wagon, posted by AMD on January 29, 2006, at 15:12:56
Hi,
Some observations:
First, I have experienced much better cognitive functioning since stopping my drinking. I think that it can come back. You have obvious intelligence and cognitive functioning just from the language you use on your post. You are thoughtful and have insight. I think that whatever impairment you have will improve.
Second, What did you learn from this one "night of fun"? Any experience that you learn from isn't wasted. If you learned that "one is too many, but many are not enoug" or something similar, then the experience, though painful, was worthwhile.
Do you have someone helping you to stay sober? Like A.A, or some other organization? My experience is that it's alot easier to stay sober with a program.
Dee
Posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 11:20:21
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon, posted by deirdrehbrt on January 30, 2006, at 9:10:58
Thanks, you two, for your replies.
Programs just don't work well for me. I've tried them, but they're too uninteresting intellectually, and I find it more fun to spend my time engaged in activities like Scrabble, books, and film. The problem is in ensuring I refrain from the occasional glass of vodka, because after just one of those I'm off and running.
I feel horrible today. Tired, mentally blunted, sick. From the alcohol withdrawal? Even from one extremely excessive evening? (I blacked out by the end of the night.)
I'm wondering if I did some physical harm, given the state of my mind and body. Like I said, I was sweating inordinately yesterday, and generally felt "gross." I still feel that way today.
I do hope my mind clears soon and that I didn't melt my brain cells into a runny slosh.
amd
Posted by vainamoinen on January 30, 2006, at 13:24:49
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » deirdrehbrt, posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 11:20:21
> Programs just don't work well for me. I've tried them, but they're too uninteresting intellectually, ...
> amdI thought that I had come up with every excuse to not go to meetings. But that's a new one.
I've been in the program for 17+ years with some sucess and some failure. But overall I can say that the vast majority of the last 17 years was spent clean and sober, that I was better off for it, and I couldn't have done it without the 12 step programs.
But like they say, you have to hit bottom. Sounds like you are not desperate enough yet.
Posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 13:42:57
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon, posted by vainamoinen on January 30, 2006, at 13:24:49
This is exactly the kind of attitude that drives me nuts about A.A.'ers -- it's almost like a religion, and if you don't agree with the approach, you get slightly condescending remarks.
I don't have anything against people in the program. I'm just saying it's not the right program for me.
Nor did I mean to imply that anyone in A.A. is not intellectually gifted. All I meant was spending time there is not an effective approach for me in dealing with my alcohol problem. Frankly, I find the meetings boring. But that's just me.
amd
Posted by vainamoinen on January 30, 2006, at 14:00:48
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » vainamoinen, posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 13:42:57
I hear ya'. I know meetings can be boring sometimes. And we can be a self righteous bunch.
But jeez, you are having blackouts and worrying about brain damage. It sounds pretty serious. So being bored seems like it would be a pretty good trade off considering the alternative.
But hey, different strokes. If you find something else that allows you to "drink like a gentleman" let me know what it is and I'll buy the both of us a drink.
Posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 14:08:11
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon, posted by vainamoinen on January 30, 2006, at 14:00:48
I think it's more like, "don't drink." And I can do that for awhile, but then I forget how bad it is, go out, and do it again.
But I think this might have more to do with mania than with alcoholism (or the comorbidity of both).
Trying to get a new psychiatrist to fix me up. In the meantime, I'm just hoping my mind gradually starts to clear.
I'll check back in next week, if not sooner, with an update on that.
Thanks,
amd
Posted by vainamoinen on January 30, 2006, at 14:20:01
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » vainamoinen, posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 14:08:11
>
> But I think this might have more to do with mania than with alcoholism (or the comorbidity of both).
>I've also relapsed while in a hypomanic episode.
I guess its hard to tease out the relationship of the two. Does the mania "cause" the alcohol abuse or are they two separate comorbid disorders?
I know its kind of a heavy price to pay in terms of the time invested because going to a meeting every day chews up easily two hours of time.
But in terms of what you are describing, the forgetting of how bad it is, I find it to be very helpful to go and listen to people wank about the trouble they have gotten into over drinking. It reminds me of the downside which, for whatever reason, I'm prone to forget.
Posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 14:40:01
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon, posted by vainamoinen on January 30, 2006, at 14:20:01
> But in terms of what you are describing, the forgetting of how bad it is, I find it to be very helpful to go and listen to people wank about the trouble they have gotten into over drinking. It reminds me of the downside which, for whatever reason, I'm prone to forget.---
I can empathize with that. It's nice to know others are in the same boat. But, frankly, I just don't have time for that stuff right now. In addition to working full time with a five-hour commute, I'm studying for law school, doing a bit of side consulting, and preparing to complete my undergraduate degree (finally). Oh. Jeez. I sound exactly like one of those people who has "no time" for A.A. but has plenty of time to drink himself to stupor.
Still, the point is that A.A. has not been effective for me, and I need other alternatives. Perhaps some writing?
amd
Posted by vainamoinen on January 30, 2006, at 14:51:31
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » vainamoinen, posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 14:40:01
Maybe talk to your doctor about your blackouts and your worries about brain damage.
It sounds like you really want to solve this problem on your own, but why not enlist the aid of the pros?
I mean you want to study law right. So here's an analogy.
You'd might choose to defend yourself on a traffic ticket. No big deal if you lose. But wouldn't you want a lawyer to handle your case if you were charged with a capital crime? Like the saying goes: "The defendant who chooses to represent themselves has a fool for a client".
Posted by deirdrehbrt on January 30, 2006, at 23:41:31
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » deirdrehbrt, posted by AMD on January 30, 2006, at 11:20:21
AMD,
I thought that meetings would not stimulate me intellectually too. I'm not dumb, and was (not to brag, but to illustrate), and engineer, and a member of MENSA. I'm used to intellectual stimulation.
So, I went to some meetings. At some of them, I found I wasn't interested. At others, I found I was. Who have I met in AA? Lawyers, Professors, Grad students, college students, other engineers along with your every-day sort. My sponsor is a housewife. Still, she's smart. She's much smarter than I in one important respect: She knows how to avoid drinking, and that's one thing I desperately need to know.
My favorite meeting is a women's meeting in a university town. I'll admit that it's more stimulating to me than some of the others I attend. People are well spoken, and they can look at their problem with a much larger toolset. Conversations after the meeting are better. Still, I do get alot from the other meetings I attend.
I need to be reminded that this disease nearly killed me. I need to be reminded how easy it is to fall back into old ways when you get complacent or over-conficent or just plain lazy. I need to be reminded of all the things that can happen once you pick up again, or drive in a blackout. In my case, I would have a tendency to overdose when drinking. I NEED to hear these things to keep fresh in my mind why it is that I'm not drinking.
I'm not saying that you have to go to AA or NA or any 12 step program, though I think they can help. There are other alternatives. I personally find distasteful the politics of Rational Recovery, in that they are constantly putting down 12 step programs, but that might be more to your liking. As the name states, they use rational processes to try to stop drinking or drugging. They claim it works and have some figures to back it up. They also claim that you don't need groups. It might work for you.
I only know that I couldn't stop on my own. I tried. I could even go a month or so, but I would ALWAYS go back. It's been almost 5 months now, and my brain is working better than it has since grade school. I can only recommend what worked for me.
Whatever you choose to do, Good luck.
--Dee
Posted by James K on January 31, 2006, at 0:17:25
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon, posted by deirdrehbrt on January 30, 2006, at 23:41:31
That was an eloquent and effective defense and argument in favor of attending a 12 step meeting. In 1985, I was named a national merit semifinalist. At that age of 16, I had already been sniffing glue and engine degreaser, smoking pot and drinking for 7 years. I went to a University on a 3 quarter full scholarship. I was 17 and had already determined my future. I was going to be a drunk. I worked at it. I've already made myself physically dependant on alcohol several times in my life. I am drunk right this second. This is incrediblely risky, because i never know what will happen. I've had the most fun in my life, and I've been places that humans shouldn't have to go to. I don't care about the cost to my brain, because my brain was the f*cking problem in the first place. I do care about the people I love and love me. They don't know about the real story. I'd rather be here than anywhere else. Nothing matters. My physical being, my psychic health, nothing matters except Smokey Robinson on the stereo. I don't even know what day this is, but about one week ago, I was on the street out of control. Drink is everything. I am nothing. I can't imagine life without, I can't imagine caring about anything but rock 'n'roll and alcohol. I never had anything else. I'm not going to die on purpose. I hope I get tired before things get out of control. My laptop is overheating. I have to wait seconds between words. I'm not asking for sympathy or help, I'm documenting tonight. I love and care about the humans on the other side of this screen. I'm not sure about this side.
I have to sign off and listen for a while.
James K
Posted by James K on January 31, 2006, at 1:04:50
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » deirdrehbrt, posted by James K on January 31, 2006, at 0:17:25
played guitar for a while and drank some water.
please disregared. i'm still finding my way.
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 4, 2006, at 23:22:34
In reply to Fell off the wagon, posted by AMD on January 29, 2006, at 15:12:56
> Now I'm back to my freaking-out-about-brain-damage-and-my-cognition phase, and sitting here depressed that I'll never be able to accomplish my goals. I feel like my planning and execution skills have diminished greatly over the past couple of months, and that this was the "capper." I can't analyze things like I could even one year ago, and I'm worried I've done permanent damage.
>
> Is this going to haunt me for the rest of my life? With further absintence can I expect my cognition to improve once more?
>
> What do I do? Did this one night of drinking to excess cause permanent damage? I have felt zonked out all weekend, have been sweating today, and generally am very depressed. I think I'll make an appointment with my psychiatrist tomorrow.
>
> The upside is that I feel, for once, like I have this more or less under control. I slipped, but I feel strong enough to move forward.Dude, if my experience is of any value to you, perhaps you can extrapolate to a peaceful future, rather than the one you seem to fear.
Way back when, in what seems like another life, I used angel dust (phencyclidine) daily. Many times a day. I used small doses to get me through work, and then after the evening meal, I'd head out and get wasted. We used to play "chicken" with our lines. First guy to come to would lose, ya know? I remember trying to get to my feet, near the end of one such evening, to navigate to the bathroom (beer effect), and I chanced to look around me a little. Maybe a dozen of us, all out cold but for me, and me only because of the bladder about to burst.
I don't know that I didn't really hurt myself, but only because there wasn't an undrugged version of me living a parallel life, to compare the drugged me to it. Given time, and what turned out to be a number of trips "back out there", I don't seem to be too seriously impaired. Not that I recommend it to others, though. 12-24 drinks a day, in other phases. A major "knife toke" period. Geez, I had a lot of different ones......Still kicking, though.
Lar
Posted by AMD on February 6, 2006, at 9:36:43
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » AMD, posted by Larry Hoover on February 4, 2006, at 23:22:34
Lar,
Good to hear from you! I missed your injections of reality into my the fantastical world of my obsessive imagination.
I've felt blunted lately. No focus. Not depressed, yet I think depression might have something to do with it.
I'm apathetic and anhedonistic, particularly with regard to any normally enjoyable things. But I'm not sad, per se, nor particularly dysfunctional. It's just that my mind is all over the place, and I'm having a very hard time organizing my thoughts and staying focused on a task. To the point where I feel like there are little fish swimming throughout my head, blocking my thought processes.
I feel like my mental sharpness is there, yet obscured.
Perhaps I should inquire about an ADD medication to offset the damage to dopamine triggered by the cocaine use.
amd
> > Now I'm back to my freaking-out-about-brain-damage-and-my-cognition phase, and sitting here depressed that I'll never be able to accomplish my goals. I feel like my planning and execution skills have diminished greatly over the past couple of months, and that this was the "capper." I can't analyze things like I could even one year ago, and I'm worried I've done permanent damage.
> >
> > Is this going to haunt me for the rest of my life? With further absintence can I expect my cognition to improve once more?
> >
> > What do I do? Did this one night of drinking to excess cause permanent damage? I have felt zonked out all weekend, have been sweating today, and generally am very depressed. I think I'll make an appointment with my psychiatrist tomorrow.
> >
> > The upside is that I feel, for once, like I have this more or less under control. I slipped, but I feel strong enough to move forward.
>
> Dude, if my experience is of any value to you, perhaps you can extrapolate to a peaceful future, rather than the one you seem to fear.
>
> Way back when, in what seems like another life, I used angel dust (phencyclidine) daily. Many times a day. I used small doses to get me through work, and then after the evening meal, I'd head out and get wasted. We used to play "chicken" with our lines. First guy to come to would lose, ya know? I remember trying to get to my feet, near the end of one such evening, to navigate to the bathroom (beer effect), and I chanced to look around me a little. Maybe a dozen of us, all out cold but for me, and me only because of the bladder about to burst.
>
> I don't know that I didn't really hurt myself, but only because there wasn't an undrugged version of me living a parallel life, to compare the drugged me to it. Given time, and what turned out to be a number of trips "back out there", I don't seem to be too seriously impaired. Not that I recommend it to others, though. 12-24 drinks a day, in other phases. A major "knife toke" period. Geez, I had a lot of different ones......Still kicking, though.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 6, 2006, at 14:01:15
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon, posted by AMD on February 6, 2006, at 9:36:43
> Lar,
>
> Good to hear from you! I missed your injections of reality into my the fantastical world of my obsessive imagination.Sorry, but I seem to be vulnerable to taking holidays. Glad you see my commentary in that light.
> I've felt blunted lately. No focus. Not depressed, yet I think depression might have something to do with it.
>
> I'm apathetic and anhedonistic, particularly with regard to any normally enjoyable things. But I'm not sad, per se, nor particularly dysfunctional. It's just that my mind is all over the place, and I'm having a very hard time organizing my thoughts and staying focused on a task. To the point where I feel like there are little fish swimming throughout my head, blocking my thought processes.
>
> I feel like my mental sharpness is there, yet obscured.
>
> Perhaps I should inquire about an ADD medication to offset the damage to dopamine triggered by the cocaine use.
>
> amdIt sounds like you're under stress. Is your job a little burdensome? Are you getting some good heart-thumping exercise?
Prior to seeking a medication, have you considered anti-stress nutrition? Increased long-chain omega-3s, such as fatty fish/fish oil? A good multi-vitamin every day?
Maybe try some herbs, like Siberian ginseng? Or Withania (Ashwagandha)? These are adaptogens. Supposed to help rebalance stress. Do a search on adaptogens, and give them a try. Different strokes for different folks, so there is no way around the part where you have to experiment a little.
Lar
Posted by AMD on February 6, 2006, at 14:15:57
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » AMD, posted by Larry Hoover on February 6, 2006, at 14:01:15
Thanks for the suggestions. Let me see if any of that helps, although I don't think stress is the issue. Feels more like sluggishness. I haven't felt that stressed actually. But perhaps I'm confusing it with something else.
amd
> > Lar,
> >
> > Good to hear from you! I missed your injections of reality into my the fantastical world of my obsessive imagination.
>
> Sorry, but I seem to be vulnerable to taking holidays. Glad you see my commentary in that light.
>
> > I've felt blunted lately. No focus. Not depressed, yet I think depression might have something to do with it.
> >
> > I'm apathetic and anhedonistic, particularly with regard to any normally enjoyable things. But I'm not sad, per se, nor particularly dysfunctional. It's just that my mind is all over the place, and I'm having a very hard time organizing my thoughts and staying focused on a task. To the point where I feel like there are little fish swimming throughout my head, blocking my thought processes.
> >
> > I feel like my mental sharpness is there, yet obscured.
> >
> > Perhaps I should inquire about an ADD medication to offset the damage to dopamine triggered by the cocaine use.
> >
> > amd
>
> It sounds like you're under stress. Is your job a little burdensome? Are you getting some good heart-thumping exercise?
>
> Prior to seeking a medication, have you considered anti-stress nutrition? Increased long-chain omega-3s, such as fatty fish/fish oil? A good multi-vitamin every day?
>
> Maybe try some herbs, like Siberian ginseng? Or Withania (Ashwagandha)? These are adaptogens. Supposed to help rebalance stress. Do a search on adaptogens, and give them a try. Different strokes for different folks, so there is no way around the part where you have to experiment a little.
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by SimSun on February 24, 2006, at 22:56:05
In reply to Re: Fell off the wagon » Larry Hoover, posted by AMD on February 6, 2006, at 14:15:57
Interesting. I was doing research on Finnish Mythology and happened to see your posts. I'm a MENSA member, now sober for 7 years. I tried every mind-altering substance available to me, and was able to free myself of all my addictions (cocaine was the most difficult) using my will and my intellect...with the notable exception of alcohol.
I attended AA meetings regularly during the first 3 years of my sobriety. I now attend whenever I want, but I do go for months without setting foot in an AA hall. I have many AA friends with whom I have regular phone conversations and whose company I enjoy in the real world.
I've met many intelligent people who have been unable to drink alcohol successfully...even with the aid of psychiatrists, prescription medications, herbal remedies, biofeedback, hypnosis and every other form of self-help known to mankind. I've met one psychiatrist and several therapists who are AA members.
Unfortunately, alcoholism has no respect for IQ scores, talent or accomplishments.
I wish you the best of luck in all of your endeavors. I can assure you that you will recover your mental accuity if you are able to stop drinking before permanent damage is done. Unfortunately, I have a friend I can now only visit in a nursing home. One can never know when permanent damage will be done. I'm sure she would have preferred death, and perhaps that was her aim, but she is no longer coherent enough to understand life or death. Mentally, she is in an infantile state with no end in sight, since she is a physically healthy woman.
Know that there is someone praying for you. That someone is me.
This is the end of the thread.
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