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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on January 1, 2008, at 17:04:58
We haven't heard it from her mouth, but she sent an email saying that she was trying to straighten out her life. Her sister called and asked about detox places and rehab - I sent an email to the family with a link for the place that helped me get well.
Phone call from her mother. Phone call from her brother. Heard that her old boyfriend is helping her get clean. Her took her cell phone away so she couldn't get more drugs - she ran away. She came back when her friend stole her stash.
So, the thing of it is - we haven't heard any of this from her lips. It's all second party, third party, chinese whispers by the time we hear it. My H wants his daughter to pick up the phone and say the words herself: "I need help."
Is this unreasonable?
In having her family members come to her rescue once again, we (he and I) fear that she is not taking the responsibility that she needs to in order to fully own her recovery. That actually, she'll agree to anybody's terms, just to get them to leave her in peace.
Maybe she does want help. But we're not hearing it. God, I feel evil, just sitting here. But our requests that she call us have gone unanswered. H does not want to help without that call from her, and I totally respect his wish. But is she capable of making that call?
I feel like a terrible person.
Posted by oxymoron on January 1, 2008, at 19:23:29
In reply to A new year for my step daughter, posted by ClearSkies on January 1, 2008, at 17:04:58
the bottom line is that she has to want to get clean. Many people have to hit rock bottom before they are truly motivated to get clean. I hope that isn't the case with her, since she has her whole life in front of her. If she gets clean for any other reason than her own decision and realization, then the potential for relapse is even higher than usual. It sounds like she has a good support system with you and your H, and I agree with him: I have seen addicts use up the good will of everyone who tries to help them, until one day, people stop lending a hand. I hope she comes around.
Posted by antigua3 on January 2, 2008, at 7:20:06
In reply to A new year for my step daughter, posted by ClearSkies on January 1, 2008, at 17:04:58
I wouldn't worry too much that she hasn't called your husband. She may be ashamed that she's trying again and will fail, and you guys may be the very last people she wants to disappoint.
Remember, she has to take the first steps, you can't lead her there.
take care,
antigua
Posted by ClearSkies on January 2, 2008, at 7:26:35
In reply to Re: A new year for my step daughter, posted by oxymoron on January 1, 2008, at 19:23:29
H spoke to his daughter last night, after calling her old boyfriend. She sounded very unwell and out of it, but clearly stated a desire to get clean. This morning he's with her and seeing if they can get her into the detox program that helped me turn around. Her concern is that she'll be "locked up" and unable to leave (which is how her ex BF and her mother have been handling her so far - taking away her cell phone and her keys, etc.). She'll see for herself that it's a completely voluntary program - but so is the recovery. She has to volunteer to recover and to do the work to get there.
We'll see.
Thanks for your words, Oxymoron. Wise and true. I just don't think that this young woman is really at her personal bottom yet. Just when she's reached one low place, she goes on to find yet another and even lower one. It's been going on for 3 years now. It seems to go on a very long way.
Sadly,
CS
Posted by ClearSkies on January 3, 2008, at 9:27:21
In reply to Re: A new year for my step daughter » ClearSkies, posted by antigua3 on January 2, 2008, at 7:20:06
She is staying with us during the day. Signed up for a suboxone program ($$$) but can't get in until the 15th to start. Can't be trusted to be left alone with a phone or a car, so the family and BF are taking turns watching her. She sits, she sleeps. She doesn't eat, doesn't talk. She must be feeling pretty awful, I would think. But even this is projection on my part, because she's not saying.
The thing of it is, she seems pretty content to let everybody else do the work so far. Make the phone calls. Drive her places. Everyone else is taking care of her, and she's being swept along. Who knows if this is what she wants? If she wants anything at all?
It's not ME who is going through this. I tell her to drink fluids, to eat something. I point her towards websites that talk about withdrawal and what to expect, what to do for yourself. She is utterly indifferent. Why do I bother, why should I make an effort when she cares not to, herself? How much of this is the illness? How much of this is her own self, expecting the world to pick up the pieces of her scattered life, shattered before it's even had a chance to really start?
Her dad is angry, very angry. Her mom keeps calling him, saying that he could get her in to see a doctor sooner; but he balks, because he's not prepared to pay, again, to save her. She has bilked him of thousands of dollars already, and he is determined that she'll be responsible for herself. But she doesn't care to be! So there is a standoff, before anything has even happened. She has to make some movement, to show that she's prepared to take care of herself.
Posted by zenhussy on January 3, 2008, at 12:38:22
In reply to This is agony for me, posted by ClearSkies on January 3, 2008, at 9:27:21
read over your posts in relationships from June, July and August of last year to see how much you've done for her already!!
please do what you need to FOR YOU so that your well being isn't affected by DSD's ongoing situation.
you can lead a horse to water.....
it is hard to "give up" and "walk away" from an unhealthy situation yet often those are the best choices one can make.
you're not giving up on her. you're not throwing in the towel on her. you're disengaging from her chaos and craziness and addiction and all the rest.
take care of CS first, then do what you're able to do for DH.....THEN and only then focus energies on DSD and her most basic needs of being baby-sat and so on. forget about websites and hotlines. she's not in any shape to heed any of that right now.
prayers until her program starts and continuing prayers for her to wake up and start living again.
she isn't your responsibility CS......YOU are your responsibility......beyond that are the choices you make as to what to do w/ your energy and heart.
of course a compassionate person wishes they could do more for someone deep in addiction. addiction can rob one of all common sense and most of their worldly possessions and connections. hope that DSD has reached her personal bottom and is ready to climb back up and out. only SHE can tell when that day has come. keep taking care of YOU first please!!
Posted by Kath on January 3, 2008, at 17:33:13
In reply to Re: This is agony for me » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on January 3, 2008, at 12:38:22
((((((((((((((CS))))))))))))))
Zenhussy's advice sounds really good. HARD to do but good.
The reason I checked onto this board is addressed in a new thread....my son had a cocaine 'slip' last night.
Kath
Posted by Kath on January 3, 2008, at 17:33:58
In reply to Re: This is agony for me » zenhussy, posted by Kath on January 3, 2008, at 17:33:13
Posted by ClearSkies on January 4, 2008, at 9:48:25
In reply to Re: This is agony for me » ClearSkies, posted by zenhussy on January 3, 2008, at 12:38:22
I'm taking her to an open AA meeting today, so she gets used to the format and what to expect. She's open minded and scared at the same time - seems like a pretty healthy response. At least she's made a move off of the sofa...
Posted by zenhussy on January 4, 2008, at 10:02:31
In reply to She has reached to to me, posted by ClearSkies on January 4, 2008, at 9:48:25
Posted by Kath on January 4, 2008, at 10:17:12
In reply to She has reached to to me, posted by ClearSkies on January 4, 2008, at 9:48:25
Posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2008, at 17:14:28
In reply to Wow - so happy to hear this CS. ((((you + her)))) (nm), posted by Kath on January 4, 2008, at 10:17:12
She went in with me - and she stayed for the whole meeting. I had an old meeting listing, and thought it was "open" when in fact it wasn't. So, a poor choice for a first-ever meeting, but there never is an easy way to do it. She was stoic and matter-of-fact; I was weepy and had to have the tissues passed to me. (Shakes head.) Who was helping whom?
She's a stubborn little cookie. I think that she felt, at least, the sense of community in the room. She also felt the wrath of the old-timers upset at a horse of a different color in their midst - they were just brutal about it. Sigh. If it had been me, I'd have run from the room, I swear it. How dare they?
But it was a step forward, and an important one. I'm really glad to have been with her for it.
CS
Posted by muffled on January 7, 2008, at 17:29:56
In reply to I give her a lot of credit, posted by ClearSkies on January 5, 2008, at 17:14:28
((((((((((((((CS))))))))))))))
I think you doing good and right things.
I think people tell you right stuff.
God, addictions, mental illness, its all so hard.
Take care of yourself.
Be clear that your there if 'she' is fully prepared to do what 'she' needs to do to save herself.
Like the others say...sadly...what else can you do?
I think your stepdaughter is very lucky to have so many care for her.
It seems she likely has mental issues as well? Which often leads to addictions. As I should know...
I hope things can be OK for her and she can be safe.
I hope you guys can be OK and take care of youraelves thru this.
Hard :-(
Take good care,
You got a big kind heart.
M
Posted by ClearSkies on January 7, 2008, at 20:02:43
In reply to Re: I give her a lot of credit » ClearSkies, posted by muffled on January 7, 2008, at 17:29:56
She's kind of chosen a path for herself. She's going to go to Narcotics Anonymous meetings, and she's detoxing herself using some medication (not suboxone but something molecularly similar?) that she's getting via her MOM (gahhhh!!!). No counseling. No professional help. Her dad offered to pay for half of a detox program, but she's made her choice.
I think he's wary just because of my personal experience with the AA model - spectacular failures in multiple cities and states! But they triggered me for some pretty particular reasons, having to do with my own family's history. I know that the path that I'm taking to recovery is different from the path that someone else will be taking, and so I said to him, by way of reassurance: maybe this is what she needs right now.
The weak part of the plan is really her relationship with her ex- and now on-again BF, who she moved back in with, and who is going to go to the NA meetings with her. Past history has shown her rebelling against his controlling nature, and then she'd spin into another downward slide. All it would take would be one little argument and the same thing would happen again - except the stakes are so much higher now. Counseling for herself would have been a good thing, but I don't think she's ready to do that self work yet, if she'll ever be ready. So for now she'll take shelter with the BF, and maybe by doing the Steps in NA she'll be able to achieve her emotional recovery alongside her physical work.
Thank goodness I see my T tomorrow. She's good at helping me help myself.
CS
Posted by Kath on January 8, 2008, at 20:44:57
In reply to Re: I give her a lot of credit » ClearSkies, posted by muffled on January 7, 2008, at 17:29:56
> You got a big kind heart.
> MSo do you Muffled!
Kath
Posted by Kath on January 8, 2008, at 20:50:03
In reply to Re: I give her a lot of credit » muffled, posted by ClearSkies on January 7, 2008, at 20:02:43
Well, at least she's going to NA. I agree, it would be so good if she had other stuff in place as well.
Isn't it so hard to see them so vulnerable & not making what are good choices - or, I should say, maybe making some good choices, but not putting in place what they really probably need to succeed. Just like my son, telling his pdoc that he doesn't think he needs help; thinks he can do it himself....at least she came up with a very specific plan & time-frame (2 weeks this time) until he sees her next that will let him know if he's doing okay. I have a feeling that she will keep giving him these goals/time frames & see him more frequently just now...I hope so, in fact I think I'll let her know that I think that will help him most right now.
Does her BF have drug-use issues? I wondered if he was going with her to NA to help himself also.
I am so glad your T is able to help you CS.
I send my very best wishes your way.
luv, Kath
Posted by ClearSkies on January 16, 2008, at 17:01:39
In reply to Re: I give her a lot of credit » ClearSkies, posted by Kath on January 8, 2008, at 20:50:03
Left her BF again, left a new temp job, has gone back to her old druggie friends in the old neighbourhood. No wonder she hadn't been returning our calls this past week.
I could hear the hurt and disappointment in her dad's voice when he told me. He seems to think that if she'd gone in to the program like he'd wanted, and had counseling, that maybe this hadn't had happened, but - who knows? Maybe she wasn't really ready. She certainly didn't speak in terms of whether she'd been making good or poor choices, more like she'd gotten into trouble with the drugs because she'd been getting them for free. (Like if she'd had to pay for them, she would have been OK?)
At least I feel that I did not invest of myself emotionally in this particular ride that she took. Going to the AA meeting with her was rough enough for me; it really triggered some very unhappy memories that churned up all sorts of thoughts of being taken for a ride while I'd been giving rides to others (if you follow). Being taken advantage of. I don't feel that my step daughter took advantage of us in this situation. I think that at the time, she wanted to get clean. But I don't think she really wanted to take a look at why she'd been making those unwise choices in the first place - that's what counseling helps you to do.
Maybe next time.... I just hope that there is a next time.
Posted by zenhussy on January 17, 2008, at 16:10:41
In reply to She's relapsed, posted by ClearSkies on January 16, 2008, at 17:01:39
Posted by Kath on January 17, 2008, at 16:36:19
In reply to She's relapsed, posted by ClearSkies on January 16, 2008, at 17:01:39
Oh dear. I hope there's a next time also. Each step towards getting help is probably a bit closer than the previous step; I'm not sure.
I'm glad you didn't get too emotionally involved.
I can relate a little bit, as my son had said during the most recent psychosis, that he was going to stop. Then it came out on Monday during his meeting with his worker (I was there too), that his 'goal' is to stop....right now, he's just cutting back!! ~~sigh~~
I guess the most important part is that we take care of ourselves in the meantime. That includes her dad also, I'm sorry for his disappointment. I know how devastated I was back in July when my son went through intake, etc & when they called to say he could come in tomorrow, he said no, he didn't think he could do it....3 months was too long!
Oh well, I hope one day they both will be inclined & able to go for treatment & actually go through with it.
hugs, Kath
This is the end of the thread.
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