Posted by BobJ1961 on June 22, 2001, at 6:22:36
In reply to Re: New to Psycho-Babble, posted by Victoria on June 17, 2001, at 10:57:15
Hi Victoria!
Sorry for taking so long to reply. Actually, I wrote a long reply just hours after you posted your message to me, but I accidently closed the browser window AND LOST EVERTHING!!! AARRRGGGG!!!
Let me try to answer your question(s) again < g >. First of all, I have a genuine interest in all these topics (I grew up wanting to be a biologist and/or scientist of some kind < g >). I studied lots of biology, cell biology, chemistry, etc. If I hadn't gotten ill with Lyme Disease at such a young age, I'm sure I would have gone for a Ph.D. in one of the "life sciences." Unfortunately, all I managed to complete was approximately 135 units of college courses (all at the Jr. College level).
When I first sought treatment for depression, back around 1989, I was prescribed Prozac. From that day on, I learned everything I could about any new medication precsribed for my condition. In recent years, I found the following site, http://cp.gsm.com/ (Clinical Pharmacology Online) to be a good "starting point" for learning about a new med. I also spent lots of years reading nutritional-related books. I discovered which nutrients (ie: amino acids) were used in the synthesis of serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, etc.
After being on LOTS of different antidepressants (spanning the course of 10 years time) I had a lot of "data" to analyze. I made a list of meds that made me worse, the ones that sort of helped, and the ones that made me psychotic! LOL... from this information, I concluded that drugs acting as histamine H1 antagonists were absolute "no no's" (they resulted in extreme sedation and suicidal ideation). Also on my "no list" were drugs with anticholinergic properties and drugs acting as alpha1 and alpha2 adrenergic antagonists. SSRI type drugs, which had a high specificity to serotonin, caused anxiety, sleeplessness, obsessiveness, and borderline psychosis. The weaker SSRI’s only caused mild anxiety and a moderate degree of sleeplessness. I had fairly good results with Desipramine (a strong norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) but it's weak anticholinergic effect was strong enough to counteract it's benefits. Some of the newer "SNRI's" (like reboxetine) might be worth looking into. Also, drugs that acted OPPOSITE of alpha1 or alpha2 adrenergic antagonists (ie: alpha1 adrenergic agonists) worked WONDERFULLY to combat the chronic fatigue I suffer from. Strangely, these type drugs are used in the treatment of narcolepsy. After doing a little research on narcolepsy, I often wonder if maybe I don't have THAT condition as well < G >.
It's strange how Prozac worked GREAT in the beginning, but after 2+ years of use, the therapeutic benefits "wore off?" And the newer SSRI's didn't work either? Seems all I experienced from the newer ones was a magnification of all the typical side-effects! This led me to conclude that maybe I depleted my serotonin stores.
My conclusion was based on deductive reasoning alone. I have no scientific basis for such a conclusion. But it seems to me that a drug that inhibits the reuptake of serotonin, would eventually tend to deplete a person's "stores" of serotonin, if that person's body wasn't synthesizing enough serotonin in the first place. L-Tryptophan happens to be the main ingredient used by the body to synthesize serotonin. Is it any wonder that it happens to be one of the eight essential amino acids? Also, is it any wonder that the FDA banned supplemental L-Tryptophan right before Prozac went on the market? (That's my paranoia talking now < g >).
I also read a lot of literature suggesting that the abuse of amphetamine-type drugs can deplete a person's dopamine stores. This seemed to apply to the chronic use of cocaine too. This led to my research on drugs that either helped protect dopaminergic neurons or helped in the synthesis of dopamine. From a nutritional point of view, I discovered that L-Lysine is needed by the body to synthesize dopamine, while drugs like L-Deprenyl, not only increase levels of dopamine, but have a neuroprotective effect on the striatal dopaminergic system.
In conclusion, I'm going to try a regimine of L-Tryptophan (in the evening) for 6 weeks straight, to promote sleep and to help in the synthesis of serotonin. Then I will add L-Lysine (in the mornings) to help combat the fatigue. If that doesn't work, I'll try an alpha1 adrenergic agonist (such as Adrafinil or Modafinil). Eventually, I might try using something like L-Deprenyl on an intermittent basis. If at all possible, I'd prefer to correct these "chemical imbalances" through the use of nutritional supplementation alone.
I feel like I'm really rambling on and on AGAIN! LOL!!! Thank you, once again, for the "welcome message." How long have you been struggling with depression? What helped you, made you worse, etc.?
Nice to "meet" you too!
Bob :)
> Hi there Bob!
> Such a nice way to introduce yourself. I am also a single mother so I feel for you. This is very interesting stuff. Can you explain about the serotonin stores? I thought that ADs were going to correct the imbalance, not make it worse. (I know I may be naive) My father was a long term cocaine user and he was taking some L- something for a long time which seemed to help so you may be on the right track. I do know about cocaine and that it damages our ability to make the brain chemical that gives that feeling. Personally, I never cared for it much, but that didn't stop me from doing a ton in the 80s. And you know, that is around the time I began to lose my ability to bounce back as quickly from things. very interesting. What else do you know about this? SOunds like you have been doing your research. Where does one get good info on these things?
> So many questions, sorry I have no answers. :-)Welcome to the Board Bob!
poster:BobJ1961
thread:66847
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010618/msgs/67445.html