Posted by Larry Hoover on April 5, 2003, at 10:09:20
In reply to Larry Hoover Re: Ok- now who takes vitamins/, posted by McPac on April 5, 2003, at 0:34:00
> "Did your blood work include an assessment of homocysteine? (It's probably elevated.)"
>
> Yes! Before I began their treatment plan I had to go to a local lab in my town and have the homocysteine test.......a typical 30-second blood draw that cost $180!!A very expensive test. (I don't even know what the results were as I was going to wait until going back to Pfeiffer to ask, since they were sent the results).It is direct confirmatory evidence that your methylation biochemistry has been screwed up for an extended period of time.
> "I don't quite follow the need for supplemental methionine, as betaine will remethylate homocysteine to methionine, as will B-12".
>
> I don't know Larry. A lot of this stuff is very new to me.Can't hurt, I suppose. Probably unnecessary, IMHO.
> "I'd still take magnesium, too".
>
> I do! Pfeiffer also has me on calcium/magnesium, 1000mg/day of each. I like my magnesium...I think it relaxes me and helps me sleep more sound.My response, as well.
> "Response is said to take months, as you have to let your folate metabolism "wind down"."
>
> I know that Carl Pfeiffer wrote that high histamine reduction requires great patience and often takes 6-12 months to accomplish. I wondered why it would take so long (in contrast, many other nutritional treatments of Pfeiffer's, for other conditions that people have, produce dramatic results often in very short time periods). Is the long amount of time required for achieving the lowered histamine level mainly due to the lengthy folic acid metabolism process that you wrote about...or is it because of MANY various physiological factors that need corrected?Absolutely, it's many things. I keep coming to the conclusion that the histamine thingie is a marker of the general disturbance in biochemistry, rather than a causative factor, per se.
Your body has been burdened by a prolonged chronic stress reaction. It takes time for everything to come back into a healthier balance. I'm still bouncing back after *years* of nutritional supports.
Here's an automotive metaphor. Let's say you buy a brand new car, but you get totally caught up in the demands of work and family, and you forget to change the oil. Hell, you forget to even check it routinely. One day, the little red light comes on, you pull the dipstick, and there's none on the stick at all. Even though you rush off the get the oil changed, you now find that you are constantly having to check and top up the oil, just to keep it running. I think we're something like that. We're high maintenance.
> "I'm not sure that high histamine and blocked serotonin synthesis aren't both caused by something else".
>
> Very interesting Larry....re: serotonin, what things do you speculate (or know of) that may block it's production?There's a theoretical model proposed by Dr. Pall, one involving oxidative stress. You can get locked into a vicious biochemical circle which depletes B-vitamins and SAMe (among many other essential chemicals). Anything that depends on these depleted substances in turn gets depleted. The result is fatigue, depression, insomnia, cognitive problems.....
It just makes sense to me, fully explains all my symptoms, and has responded to the appropriate nutritional supports.
> "Zinc deficiency causes copper overload. I can't see how you can separate out the symptoms of one from the other (unless you have the genetic defect which leads to Wilson's disease)".
>
> I was reading a list of high copper toxicity symptoms on-line and the list of symptoms were dead-on to so many of mine (some symptoms which I had often wondered about for sooo many years and knew there must be a biochemical basis for; of course I STILL can't say for SURE but so many of my symptoms were there). I know that zinc-copper go together.
>
> "Zinc regulates copper, and blocks its uptake. So you really need zinc supplements. Also, selenium".
>
> Right again Lar! Pfeiffer has me taking zinc also! Soooooo funny that you mention selenium though....because that is one supplement that I myself have been wanting to add and now that you say that I am going to ask the Pfeiffer folks if I can add that!If you feel more comfortable asking, it's OK with me. ;-)
Selenium works with zinc in protecting against oxidative stress. Moreover, it directly blocks mercury toxicity (another possible burden).
> "Ask as many (questions) as you want to".
>
> I have one other question but I will need to gather a bit of info. before posing it correctly(re: sodium-potassium ratio).I'll be waiting.
> "I'm really interested in how well this works for you".
>
> Larry, you would sure make an awesome Pfeiffer employee! Every comment you made, every question you asked were all like it was coming from the Pfeiffer people. I have NO IDEA how you can understand, retain and explain the incredible mountain of information of biochemistry that you have. These fields (chemistry, biology, nutrition, physiology, etc.......all this info gives me a headache and I can't keep too much of it straight, lol. Take care and thanks!!!I did really well in school......
My *life* depends on my understanding these things. I'm not exaggerating. <shrug>
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:215282
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030402/msgs/216429.html