Posted by PsychoSage on March 20, 2004, at 20:07:16
In reply to Re: I've Made A Mess of My Life-SIMUS » PsychoSage, posted by gabbix2 on March 20, 2004, at 16:03:02
> Simus thanks for such an articulate and accurate response to this post. Many people who suffer depression develop a deeper love and compassion for others because of it (or in spite of it)
> PsychoSage a comment like "If you hate yourself you hate everyone" is a sweeping generalization and most definitely no bottom line. Why would you think what is true for *you* should be projected onto everyone?
> When someone is at the end of their rope I don't think they need to be "shocked" into seeing anything.
> There are no shortage of people who get off on "Telling it like it is" (but really isn't) and it has most likely already been done ad nauseum by some family member, self righteous neighbor or another aquaintance who doesn't grasp the depth and reality of depression.
I don't think you understand the weight of that statement or I am not articulating clearly enough.I don't think you've read my post close enough either as to why I chose to say what I said because it's apparent that Sandyweb is in a rut. She is not a 20 year old who is responsible only for herself. She self-admittedly has found shame because she is perpetually screwing up. She isn't naive.
I suppose I lift too many ideas from other sources. This book is premised on the kind of compassion I suppose I am hoping Sandyweb can find: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684841991/102-7713825-3885760?v=glance
The woman probably can't do what she wants because there is some block in the way. Doesn't it sound like she's hitting some kind of wall repeatedly?
Anyways, I was hitting on the idea of examining what she thinks she is by making her realize that her self-loathing drains any true love and consideration she has for others. Therefore, you inadvertantly have less regard or feeling towards others when you are deep in depression because you have collapsed within. That is why we feel numb and hate ourselves for not having more feeling about others. Because we hate ourselves so much that essentially becomes another kind of hate or disregard towards others, though inadvertant. Is this just too complicated or silly? I would think not to be honest.
Anyways, in the interest of my own time, I found the first thing I could lift to help give an idea of where I am coming from:
http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol2/ecological_self.htmlIn the Buddhist view, the self is nothing more or less than the dynamic aggregation of a bundle of interrelated causal processes. This aggregation was variously analyzed, most simply into its basic psycho-physiological polarity (naama-ruupa), and that in turn was further analyzed into the five parallel processes of physiological form (ruupa), karmic formations (sa.mskaara), cognition (sa.mjñaa), feeling (vedanaa) and discriminative perception (vijñaana). Later Buddhists in the Abhidharmic tradition carried the analysis still further, eventually recognizing 75, 85 or even 101 principal components of the process conventionally designated as "the self." It is important to stress that the point of this analytic Abhicharmic enterprise was much more soteric or therapeutic than descriptive. It was systematic but not scientific, in that its primary objective was to deconstruct all clinging to any false essentialist conception of the self, and not to exhaustively catalog all possible elements of existence. The transformative spiritual value of the analysis was seen to lie, in other words, not in the resulting products of the analysis but rather in the analytic process itself, in its salutary effect on the human tendency to cling to a substantial rather than dynamic notion of personal identity.
I know exactly what you mean, gabbix. I'm bipolar, and it's insulting to hear you believe I have no understanding of depression. I'm not personally for stock, politically correct cliche responses that make people believe they are doing all they really can and should for a person who might need a little more than a bit of fluff that every depressive has heard before.
Do you really think empty fluff is really going to help her move anywhere? It's important to use fluff, but it only absorbs some despair. Like I said Sandyweb's been doing something wrong over and over again. She's missing the boat somewhere. She's not see why she is important and despite herself why she really needs to refute her self-loathing thoughts.
poster:PsychoSage
thread:326123
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040319/msgs/326526.html