Posted by raybakes on September 7, 2004, at 11:20:35
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by KaraS on September 5, 2004, at 15:13:44
Hi Kara,
Thanks for reply, seems so much to say, but here it goes!
>I have been wanting to get a complete set of >tests done by a holistic doctor for quite a >while now but haven't been able to afford it. >The doctor I want to see uses Great Smokies Lab >as well. Now I'm even more certain that's a step >I need to take.I didn't find the normal great smokies tests showed anything for me - the liver, stool and hair analysis all looked normal - it was their genovations genetic tests that were quite helpful - if you wanted them to test for interleukin RN or RA you might have to ask as sometimes they don't have the right reagents in to test for it.
>Fortunately I am able to tolerate all of the B vitamins and have been taking them fairly regularly. I think I may need to take them in better proportion though. What is R5P?R5P is riboflavin 5 phosphate, I seem to do better on the more active forms of B vitamin. If I don't feel the benefit of something, I tend not to take it, but have been quite lucky that I am sensitive, even to holding supplements. Riboflavin is important in glutathione metabolism. Came across something about B2 and thyroid.
B Complex Vitamins
Riboflavin. The universal redox coenzyme, flavinadenine dinucleotide FAD, functions as a redox agentin the oxidation of succinate by mitochondria, and as acofactor for cytochrome P450 detoxication enzymes. Thyroid hormone status is reported to be sensitive to riboflavin status. Female acute psychiatric patients with riboflavin deficiency had significantly lower thyroxine levels. Drug exposure did not correlate with thyroxine levels (13). Many factors affect brain function and the endocrine system and psychiatric problems undoubtedly involve a variety of biochemical pathways
>I have methionine here at home that I should finish up. Again, I couldn't tell any difference when taking it. Perhaps I should try it with lysine. Then when those are used up, I'll switch to TMG and B12 as I'm sure that would be a better overall combination.I'm interested in methionine because of cell membrane phospholipids requiring methylation and also genetic switching. There are some reports about autoimmune disease sufferers not being able to switch off inflammatory genes, so am interested in what nutrition might do it. Arginine and lysine residues on parts of the DNA called histones are either methylated, acetylated or phosphorylated. Vitamin A seems important in genetic swtiching (seems to be better derived form fish oil) and butyrate seems to help too, but making sure there's enough methyl donors, sufficient acetyl CoA, and energy for phosphorylation, seems important too...today I bought some lutein extract from marigold, and have found that reduces my fog too - some references to immune system gentic balancing too. See abstract below for methylation...
DNA methylation and autoimmune disease.
>I only feel a little bit of a stimulation on DLPA which I attributed to PEA but I didn't find that helped my depression or that I was able to concentrate better. I may not have been taking enough though or perhaps I do need to experiment with Norival and niacinamide. Thanks for the abstract. I'll read it after I send this message to you.
I have been taking 500mg of DLPA and it feels great (and the lutein is now feeling pretty good too!), but as I said, last year it was giving me a massive headache and I felt like I wanted to shout and scream too - was wary of taking it again! Not sure why it is wonderful now but did notice it felt even better when I took lipothiamine. Catecholamines can be detoxified through methylation and sulphation - doesn't dopamine get transported as dopamine sulphate?
>What amount of DLPA do you take? Do you feel at all wired or hyper on that dose or maybe just mildly stimulated? I'm trying to find solutions right now that won't tax my adrenal glands as I fear I have adrenal fatigue.Don't know what your TSH is like, but found some research that TSH can activate the adrenals - think the theory was that it's a compensation by the adrenals to support energy levels when the thyroid is underactive.
>Recently I've been feeling somewhat better and I wasn't sure why. The changes I made were adding maca and extra magnesium to my routine. The only other thing I changed was adding chromium although that was at least a couple of weeks back. I didn't see any change soon enough with the chromium and so never thought it could explain my improvement but now that I read your last paragraph, I'm wondering. Could it take at least two weeks to see it's effects? I'm definitely going to check out the Venocap herbs by Thorne Research. Thanks for the tip.
haven't looked into maca, how does it feel for you? Find working on the insulin receptor more effective for me than working on glucose tolerance with chromium - EPA/DHA, alpha lipoic acid, glutathione, soluble fibre and gymnema sylvestre/fenugreek are what seem to work OK. Some recent research found that insulin resistance pushed glycogen to cell surfaces and encouraged candida growth.
Hmmmm. I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis so I bet the above pertains to me as well. If you don't mind what might be a dumb question: How does one oppose expression of interleukin 1?
No, nothing's dumb! The genetic balancing I mentioned before is one way I'm playing and another is inhibiting it's effect on cell membrane damage via the enzyme PLA2 (phospholipase A2) interleukin 1 triggers the release of PLA2, PLA2 breaks down cell membranes, releasing arachidonic acid, and starts an inflammatory cascade. EPA inhibits PLA2, apparently more effectively on it's own than with DHA. Have found I get on better with distilled fish oils, that get rid of toxic metal and residual arachidonic acid.
>Are you using "hyper-ex" to mean hypericin, hypericum or hyperforin? That's interesting to me that SJW helped you. Since it's more serotonergic, I don't generally associate it with helping with brain fog. Quite the contrary in fact.
Just looked, Thorne's hyper-ex is hypericum. I did take it for it's detoxification ability, so wasn't thinking how it worked with serotonin. Not sure how broad SJW's action is on cytochrome p450 enzymes, does it extend to cytochromes in the mitochondria and to heme too?
Found an article on depression and inflammation - that seems to be the core of what has helped me, doing everything I can to get inflammation down!
also found this with interleukin 1 and it's possible link with hashimoto's
http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/abstract/876/1/221
>Where do you get the two things you just mentioned? I have Monolaurin at home to try for immune support. It's a monoglyceride that's supposed to have anti-microbial properties. I haven't given it much of a trial yet though.
MCT is from thorne and it's medium chain diglycerides, including lauric acid, so might have a similar effect to monolaurin. There's a lot of debate on different websites as to whether MCT or coconut oil that it's derived from boosts or protects the thyroid. It does boost the metabolism - if that is by supporting the thyroid, I'm not sure. Lactoferrin I get from Jarrow, but cardiovascular research do it too. I think it works by pulling iron into a transport protein so that it's unavailable to bacteria and yeasts - some friends have used IP6 to fight their infections but it made them anaemic! Looking at the abstract below, lactoferrin is also anti inflammatory and describes a different mechanism for it's action..
Antimicrobial and immunoregulatory functions of lactoferrin and its potential therapeutic application.
>Also, I'm curious as to whether you read most or all of that long thread we had going here on brain fog. Sometimes we'd include some silliness as well as a lot of personal information in the posts. I wonder if all of that made it into the archives.
Didn't read all the thread....started to, but it seemed like I'd never get to the bottom!
Thanks for your comments, hope mine make some sense!Ray
poster:raybakes
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040901/msgs/387617.html