Posted by Larry Hoover on November 9, 2004, at 15:35:57
In reply to Re: dopamine oxidation » Larry Hoover, posted by raybakes on November 8, 2004, at 13:55:57
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> > Only in extreme circumstances. That's what buffers do....maintain supplies of H+ without changing pH dramatically.
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> Thanks Lar, but I do think chronic fatigue and nervous system disorders are extreme circumstances - In nervous system disorders, mitochondrial failure surely means an accumulation of protons in the cell, lowering pH. How can a buffer system keep up when the only energy production in the cell is anaerobic?
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> RayRay, I fear we're far apart on our theoretical underpinnings. Or perhaps I'm just not grasping the unique character of a particular form of dysfunction you're trying to address.
Here's a pretty good summary of what goes wrong, IMHO (before it slides into the promotion of particular propietary remedies). http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/ID/4535/
The key is electron transport defects. Protonation (the hydrogen ion) is tightly controlled because of the high amine content in proteins (amines love to mop up protons), and because of the phosphate buffer.
Mitochondrial failure is associated with ROS (reactive oxygen species) at levels which overwhelm antioxidant defenses. Despite the failure of the mitochondrial membranes, stimulatory signals are still received by the mitochondria, which churn out ROS unhindered.
Anaerobic metabolism is extra-mitochondrial. It occurs in cell cytoplasm, and is very inefficient. Large amounts of "partially spent" molecules accumulate, the gross debris of inefficiency. Those include lactic acid, which is responsible for pain and spasm in over-exerted muscle, for example. But that is not a chronic state. Well, if it is, you're in big trouble, and you're likely in the ICU already.
If I've not grasped something you're putting forth, I'd really appreciate it if you'd spend some time with it, and lay it out for me anew.
Thanks,
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:404137
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041108/msgs/413916.html