Posted by Tomatheus on December 1, 2006, at 2:34:53
In reply to Exercise and Sex, posted by johnnyj on November 27, 2006, at 13:38:38
Johnnyj,
Exercise has been shown to increase blood ammonia levels, and ammonia toxicity in the brain is thought to result in symptoms including loss of coordination, ataxia, altered sleep pattern, coma, and convulsion (Banister & Cameron, 1990). Theoretically, ammonia levels are probably high to begin with in individuals with abnormally high levels of MAO-A and/or MAO-B because ammonia is a byproduct of monoamine oxidization. Higher MAO-A and/or MAO-B levels should presumably increase the rate of monoamine oxidization, which would then increase the amount of ammonia that's released into the body over any given period of time. Consequently, those with elevated MAO-A and/or MAO-B levels would probably be more likely to develop hyperammonemia after a moderate increase in ammonia due to exercise than those with MAO levels that are abnormally low or within the normal range.
So, clearly one way to reduce ammonia (at least from a theoretical standpoint) would be to inhibit MAO-A and/or MAO-B. Aeon recently pointed out on this board that quercetin has been shown to have MAO-inhibiting properties, so perhaps that might be worth trying. Or, you might want to try another supplement that has been said to inhibit one or both of the MAO enzymes, such as turmeric or FO-TI. And of course, there are also the MAOI medications: phenelzine (Nardil), tranylcypromine (Parnate), isocarboxazid (Marplan), selegiline (EMSAM, Eldepryl), and moclobemide (Manerix, Aurorix). I should point out, however, that I have reason to believe that all of the versions of Nardil that are currently available contain ammonia (that forms after hydrazine undergoes chemical degradation in the presence of moisture) and produce even more ammonia after phenelzine (Nardil's active ingredient) undergoes degredation to hydrazine and then to ammonia in the stomach.
Another source of ammonia is glutamate. So, as the case should be with MAO-inhibiting compounds, supplements and drugs that reduce glutamate neurotransmission (or the stimulation of NMDA receptors, to be more precise) should also indirectly lower ammonia levels. Reducing your intake of caffeine should also theoretically lower glutamate levels and NMDA stimulation (which would in turn lower ammonia levels), since caffeine is believed to indirectly boost glutamate levels.
Interestingly, taurine has been shown to reduce the levels of cyclic GMP and hydroxyl radicals, which accumulate in response to the stimulation of glutamate NMDA receptors or the administration of ammonium chloride (Hilgier et al., 2003). So, taurine should theoretically reduce the damage that results from hyperammonemia. I have personally found taurine to be moderately effective in preventing and relieving symptoms such as muscle aches and excessive sweating, which tend to develop abnormally quickly when I exercise in a state of moderate to severe depression (and developed *extremely* rapidly when I took film-coated versions of Nardil). I have also found that taurine tends to reduce the jitteriness and agitation that I sometimes feel as a result of consuming caffeinated beverages, which isn't surprising considering that caffeine indirectly raises ammonia levels and taurine indirectly lowers them.
Suffice it to say, I definitely recommend taurine -- at least in addition to other supplements or meds, if nothing else.
Hope this helps.
Tomatheus
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REFERENCES
Banister, E. W., & Cameron, B. J. C. (1990). Exercise-induced hyperammonemia: Peripheral and central effects. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 11, S129-S142.
Hilgier, W., Anderzhanova, E., Oja, S. S., Saransaari, P., & Albrecht, J. (2003). Taurine reduces ammonia- and N-methyl-D-aspartate induced accumulation of cyclic GMP and hydroxyl radicals in microdialysates of the rat striatum. European Journal of Pharmacology, 468, 21-25.
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> I am off meds right now and have had this problem with working out since I had pneumonia 5 years ago. It seems to worsen my sleep. My mood rarely drops when I work out it just affects my sleep. It is quite profound too. I can have a good day and do a nice little workout (not too killer) and the next day I will feel terrible. I am still waking up early 4 or so and kind of sweating too.
>
> I wonder if seeing an endorcrinologist is a good idea? We all know the docs see our history or anixety and/or depression and say that is what is going on. But I thought working out is supposed to help this? It doesn't seem to matter when I work out either. I used to feel great working out and now it seems to worsen things. I do get really really tired after a short workout too. Since I have been off meds for a short time (last med about 3 weeks) maybe my body needs time to heal up first? It is so confusing and frustrating.
>
> Any ideas out there? Thanks
>
> johnnyj
poster:Tomatheus
thread:707861
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20061118/msgs/709243.html