Posted by Damos on January 8, 2006, at 17:07:57
In reply to Re: trauma and cycles in the present » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on January 5, 2006, at 22:11:49
Sorry to take so long to get back to you :-(
> > Don't you just hate those itches you can't quite scratch.
>
> yep.
>
> i'm starting to think... that might be the story of my life really... or at least... one fairly significant strand in the story of my life...I can understand that :-(
> ever since i can remember i have been compulsively asking myself
> 'what is wrong with me?'
> 'what is wrong with me?'
> the answer
> 'nothing is wrong with you'
> isn't sufficient
> because...
> i hurt
> sometimes
> i hurt a lotWell that makes perfect sense to me and actually made me realise something about myself too. For whatever reason I've just always accepted it as an absolute fact that I was a stupid, useless, worthless piece of sh*t that no-one could love. Never questioned it. But that's another story. Back to you.
I remember from when I did a bit of surveying stuff that the tiniest change in the wording of a question can significantly alter/influence the responses. So if I'm asking the wrong question or simply asking it in the wrong way, I can gather all the data in the world and it won't help me a bit. So maybe it's not asking the question that's causing problems, maybe it's the question you're asking. Which kinda leads to what you've written below.
You see I think you actually answered your own question in a sense.
"What is wrong with me?"
"I hurt."
"Sometimes I hurt a lot"When I was reading this I kinda went back in my head to when I was a kid and went to the doctor, and to how the conversations went. And they were kind of like that. And importantly there was diagnosis before prescription. Question and answer.
"I hurt"
"Where does it hurt?"
"Inside"
"Can you show me where?"
"How does it hurt?"And so on and so on.
And the good thing about questions is there's no limit to how many you can ask, no laws about which ones you can ask. Sometimes simply changing from "What if?" to "So what?" can help change your perspective on things too.
> but i guess... i've been looking for an answer...
>
> and i guess...
>
> in searching for an answer...
>
> well... i'm thinking that has made me vulnerable to people telling me (in an authorative tone)
> '*this* is what is wrong with you'
> and there was a story
> always a story
> a story of the day
> week
> month
> yearAnd all of that makes perfect sense. The overwhelming need for an answer would have made the willingness to believe and the attachment to each *this* all the stronger. And all of this would have been made stronger by having had your views and opinions about anything disqualified by one of the key figures in your life. Your whole paradigm would have been that 'they' must be right, and that 'they' must know better that me. Worst of all I kind of suspect that their finding something acted almost as an affirmation of sorts, maybe even acted as an acceptance of you in a way. Maybe?
The question "What is wrong with me?" is based in a belief that something is wrong 'with me'. And it's the underlying belief that's the problem, not the question. Their finding a 'this is what's wrong with you', only served to reinforce that belief.
> and i'm thinking about the notion that there is a problem...
> there is something wrong...
>
> and symptoms are manifestations of the underlying problem
>
> and some people say the trouble with behaviourism
> or with treatments that focus on treating the symptoms
> is that they do not address the underlying problem
> and that a consequence of that is that...
> new symptoms will manifest
> and i'm thinking there may be some truth to that...And you'd be right. The classic example is someone who presents with a headache and is treated with Panadol (headache pills) to treat the immediate symptom. When in fact the underlying cause is a brain tumor. It happens, so there's a lot of truth in what you say.
Using my alergies as an example. You can treat the itching, or the fever, or any of the other symptoms, but unless you treat the underlying reaction different symptons will continue to manifest, and do.
I guess this is one of the attractions to Eastern medicine and alternate therapies for me. The treatment of the whole person. The physical, spiritual, emotional an mental. Sometimes the person gets lost in the symptoms and the chase to find a label to put on them. And sadly there is a tendancy (natural) to become your label.
> with respect to symptoms
> that they vary
> along with the story of the day
> week
> month
> year
> century
>
> so the symptoms are constrained by social factors> but really
> the problem
> is that sometimes it hurts a lot
>
> sometimes it hurts a lot
>
> and there it is.
>
> and the stories we tell...
> ourselves...
> other people...
>
> in order to get a little help...
>
> f*cking system that makes people worse in order to make them better
> in order to have a justification for treating them at allIn effect you become what you *need* to be in order to get a little help. You exhibit what they reinforce. You report what they want to hear.
> and the consequence of tightening up the DSM criteria
>
> is only going to be an increase in amnesia
>
> for f*ck sake...
>
> :-(And they don't see that they are observing through a series of filters. The DSM, their own beliefs about certain conditions, their experience. So they are not purely objective becasue they are no viewing the assumptions that they are seeing you through. GRRRRRHHH!!!!! And assumptions lead to judgements and around we go.
> but of course i'm okay really.As Ada once asked me "Who are you trying to convince, me or you?" ;-)
> i'm just trying to figure whether appreciating this is the cure or not
>
> (depends on whether mps is a social construction in the second or third sense you see)Oh no the dreaded 'C' word. While it might not be a cure I think it's an important step along the way. Here's a spin for you. I don't believe it matters either way. I believe that it is your underlying belief that matters. Because whether you like it or not you tend to accept stuff that supports your beliefs and rejects stuff that doesn't. Just like I reject it when people say I'm nice (hate that word). Until I can change that belief I'll latch onto anything that supports my self image and reject stuff that doesn't. Worse yet I'll engineer situations to reinforce it without consciously realising it.
> but even if you appreciate that
> even if you do
>
> will that help with the pain???????
>
> methinks not.
>
> i dunno.So let me ask you, if we change from asking "What is wrong with me?" to "Why do I hurt, sometimes a lot?" What difference does that make. If we accept the pain as an indicator of something not right, but not of some flaw in you, where does that move us. What questions can we ask about the pain that will help us?
I think this post does help in lots of ways. Paradigms, perspectives, beliefs and values. Much power lies within them.
I'm sorry you hurt Alex. I'm sorry it's hard to let people see that. It's okay to let me see, it's okay to share it with me if you want to.
(((((Alex)))))
poster:Damos
thread:593810
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20051229/msgs/596705.html