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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ilene on February 5, 2004, at 12:43:40
All the great input from psychobabblers led me to choose Marplan for my next drug trial. I'm still washing out desipramine and buspar, so I have to wait another week. I want to take it, yet I don't--I feel like it's my last chance--if it doesn't work, nothing will, and even if it works, it may not last. My pdoc says there are other things we can try if the Marplan doesn't work, but I'm not sure what she has in mind, except Effexor, again. ( Like that's something I want to re-experience.) Maybe a little lithium to brighten things up?
At least she acknowledged the reality of drug poop-out. It's happened to me twice. The only two drugs that worked. She also recognizes how much I *don't* want to gain weight. She's overweight herself, which helps, I think. She commented that the atypical antipsychotics that were were supposed to solve a bunch a problems brought problems of their own. Everyone who takes Zyprexa gets fat, she said. Now we know they get diabetes, too.
Meanwhile, I feel alone, unsupported, barely functional, suicidal, inadequate, and dull as drying paint. I'm pinning everything on Marplan. Not such a good strategy, maybe, but what else do I have?
Ilene
Posted by gardenergirl on February 5, 2004, at 15:25:49
In reply to Starting Marplan next week; mild rant, posted by Ilene on February 5, 2004, at 12:43:40
Hang in Ilene. The drug wash out period sounds just awful. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and Marplan and sending out positive energy.
gg
Posted by Ilene on February 5, 2004, at 16:29:57
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant » Ilene, posted by gardenergirl on February 5, 2004, at 15:25:49
> Hang in Ilene. The drug wash out period sounds just awful. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and Marplan and sending out positive energy.
>
> ggThank you. I usually hate virtual (((hugs))) and their ilk, but I know you are sincere, and it does mean something.
I know it isn't good for me to dwell on the Marplan--I literally will make myself sick, because anxiety triggers my hypotension, which triggers my chronic fatigue syndrome. In fact, I'm so worried I called my pdoc just now.
I'm also tackling some confusing financial forms regarding my father's estate that I was supposed to fill out 2 months ago. Ridiculous things like this tie me in knots. Maybe I'll feel better once I get this off my back.
All the best,
I.
Posted by oskarsmom on February 6, 2004, at 13:41:41
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant, posted by Ilene on February 5, 2004, at 16:29:57
I was scared to death to try Marplan but had tried "everything" so I just did it. 2.5 weeks later it's starting to work. I'm bipolar so we've got some wrinkles to even out but I haven't felt this normal in almost five years. It is scary but it's been worth it for me. My doc says that poop out is less common with MAOIs and can be "fixed" if necessary. (I've pooped out on three drugs myself, lost jobs etc.) I think that once you are on it for a little while it won't be quite as scary.
My thoughts are with you. I really hope that you get good results. Very sincerely.
Oskarsmom (Leslie)
Posted by Ilene on February 12, 2004, at 20:47:18
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant, posted by oskarsmom on February 6, 2004, at 13:41:41
> I was scared to death to try Marplan but had tried "everything" so I just did it. 2.5 weeks later it's starting to work. I'm bipolar so we've got some wrinkles to even out but I haven't felt this normal in almost five years. It is scary but it's been worth it for me. My doc says that poop out is less common with MAOIs and can be "fixed" if necessary. (I've pooped out on three drugs myself, lost jobs etc.) I think that once you are on it for a little while it won't be quite as scary.
>
> My thoughts are with you. I really hope that you get good results. Very sincerely.
>
> Oskarsmom (Leslie)
How are you doing now? I'm very scared and suicidal tonight. I start the Marplan tomorrow. I've been doing everything I can think of to help myself, but not even Klonopin helps much anymore. I'm just a zombie.I.
Posted by oskarsmom on February 14, 2004, at 13:52:44
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant » oskarsmom, posted by Ilene on February 12, 2004, at 20:47:18
Hi Ilene,
Sorry for the delay.
Things aren't going as well now but that could be because the doctor has been playing around with the dosages. He dropped the dose a little and is now raising it again. Trying to deal with the bipolar cycling.
Anyway, some stuff that may be of help:
My pdoc says that he has "a lot of confidence in this medication" but "has given up predicting the future a long time ago."
We're supposed to be ramping me up to 40 mgs but we're going slow. We saw some response (perhaps too much) after 4 days at 20 mgs, so dropped back down. I added a B-100 complex (vitamin) and got a bump. With the ups and downs I don't know what to think.
My anxiety (panic disorder) didn't go away but my pdoc said "Marplan was a drug of choice for panic disorder back when". He's been around for a long time.
The doctor said that the "final stretch" is usually more rocky than smooth. I think that this comforts me the most.
The doctor says that I will get well but after almost 5 years of this bs I told him "I'll believe it when I see it!!"
Please don't put all of your hopes on this (or any other) trial. I've done this too and it just leads to more discouragement. Though he's a pain in the ass, my husband reminds me to live one day at a time. I try but it's not easy.
Thinking of you.
oskarsmom
Posted by Ilene on February 16, 2004, at 20:13:55
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant Ilene, posted by oskarsmom on February 14, 2004, at 13:52:44
> Anyway, some stuff that may be of help:
>
> My pdoc says that he has "a lot of confidence in this medication" but "has given up predicting the future a long time ago."
>
They have to keep up your spirits but they can't offer guarantees, can they?> We're supposed to be ramping me up to 40 mgs but we're going slow. We saw some response (perhaps too much) after 4 days at 20 mgs, so dropped back down. I added a B-100 complex (vitamin) and got a bump. With the ups and downs I don't know what to think.
>
I'm going up to 20 mgs tomorrow. That's still a low dose.> My anxiety (panic disorder) didn't go away but my pdoc said "Marplan was a drug of choice for panic disorder back when". He's been around for a long time.
>
I'm the first patient my pdoc has put on an MAOI. I like her a great deal, but I wish she had more experience.> The doctor said that the "final stretch" is usually more rocky than smooth. I think that this comforts me the most.
>
That is comfortiing.> The doctor says that I will get well but after almost 5 years of this bs I told him "I'll believe it when I see it!!"
>
Me too, but it's been more than 5 years.> Please don't put all of your hopes on this (or any other) trial. I've done this too and it just leads to more discouragement. Though he's a pain in the ass, my husband reminds me to live one day at a time. I try but it's not easy.
>
I'm not as anxious as I was last week. I didn't even take any Klonopin today. In fact, this is the best day I've had in a couple of weeks.> Thinking of you.
>
> oskarsmom
>
>
Thinking of you, too.
Posted by oskarsmom on February 17, 2004, at 14:35:03
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant Ilene » oskarsmom, posted by Ilene on February 16, 2004, at 20:13:55
Hi Ilene,
More info for you:
I was put on the B-100 complex per doctors orders. Something about the B vitamins supposedly helps the MAOI to work.
And something really weird: My pdoc said that when patients reach a theraputic level they stop dreaming! And they don't sleep as much as they had before. So he's having me monitor my dreams. Apparently MAOIs affect REM sleep but not in a harmful way.
I'm at 25 mgs now which he says is "nowhere near a theraputic dose". He wants to get me up to 40 mgs and see what happens. I may have gotten a bump at the lower dose because of the bipolarity.
I'm so glad that you're feeling somewhat better today.
oskarsmom
Posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2004, at 16:40:46
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant » Ilene, posted by oskarsmom on February 17, 2004, at 14:35:03
Interesting about dreams. I used to dream regularly, but you're right, they're gone. I thought I would miss them, but oh well.
What I do have, though is myoclonic jerks as I am falling asleep. I used to occasionally get them, but now if I am dozing, I seem to get them quite frequently, sometimes every five minutes or so until I either stay awake or fall deeper asleep. They are accompanied by the usual dream of falling or whatever that our minds create to account for the sudden whole body spasm.
Weird.
gg
Posted by Ilene on February 17, 2004, at 17:49:47
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant » Ilene, posted by oskarsmom on February 17, 2004, at 14:35:03
> Hi Ilene,
>
> More info for you:
>
> I was put on the B-100 complex per doctors orders. Something about the B vitamins supposedly helps the MAOI to work.
>
I was told to make sure I got enough vitamin B6, but I thought it was to prevent deficiency rather than to increase the efficacy of the Marplan. But--did your doc prescribe a particular brand or dosage or just "B-100"?> And something really weird: My pdoc said that when patients reach a theraputic level they stop dreaming! And they don't sleep as much as they had before. So he's having me monitor my dreams. Apparently MAOIs affect REM sleep but not in a harmful way.
>
TCAs also suppress REM sleep. When I quit taking desipramine I had intense dreams for about 10 days, as a kind of rebound effect. When my chronic fatigue syndrome acts up my sleep is really bad. I think the problem is getting enough deep sleep, not REM sleep. I don't know if this is true for depression or just cfs.> I'm at 25 mgs now which he says is "nowhere near a theraputic dose". He wants to get me up to 40 mgs and see what happens. I may have gotten a bump at the lower dose because of the bipolarity.
>
I went up to 20 mg. today and I feel like a zombie. I'm not sure if it's the Marplan or the depression. I'll be splitting the dose (morning/evening) starting tomorrow. Often it's hard for me to tell what's affecting my moods. Could be anything or nothing.> I'm so glad that you're feeling somewhat better today.
>
That was yesterday. I feel really sucky today.I.
Posted by Ilene on February 17, 2004, at 17:59:17
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant, posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2004, at 16:40:46
> Interesting about dreams. I used to dream regularly, but you're right, they're gone. I thought I would miss them, but oh well.
>
> What I do have, though is myoclonic jerks as I am falling asleep. I used to occasionally get them, but now if I am dozing, I seem to get them quite frequently, sometimes every five minutes or so until I either stay awake or fall deeper asleep. They are accompanied by the usual dream of falling or whatever that our minds create to account for the sudden whole body spasm.
>
> Weird.
>
> ggI used to jerk when I was falling asleep, when I was taking Celexa and Effexor. Were those myoclonic jerks? (Sounds like an insult: "You myoclonic jerk!") When I was on Effexor my feet started to twitch when I was just sitting in a chair. Is that something else I have to look forward to on MAOIs?
I.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 17, 2004, at 20:27:41
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant, posted by Ilene on February 17, 2004, at 17:59:17
>
> I used to jerk when I was falling asleep, when I was taking Celexa and Effexor. Were those myoclonic jerks? (Sounds like an insult: "You myoclonic jerk!")LOL. I'll have to try that on someone sometime, although I think there is a poster with that name. It sounds like myoclonics. I don't know about foot twitching, but you might check out your patellar tendon reflex (knee jerk). Mine is huge! I could hurt somebody. :) But it's fun to play with when I'm bored.
Hope Marplan kicks in soon!
gg
Posted by oskarsmom on February 18, 2004, at 19:18:08
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant, posted by Ilene on February 17, 2004, at 17:49:47
Hi Ilene,
When it comes to the B vitamins I believe you are right that it is the B-6 that is the important one. But I think that the B vitamins act more effectively as a group so that's the rationale for the "B-100 complex". That's the name to look for. There's a lot of brands, I'm taking "Nature's Way" because it's a capsule.
I'm going to ask my p-doc about dividing the dose too.
God, I hope this stuff works (for both of us)!
oskarsmom
Posted by Ilene on February 18, 2004, at 21:13:46
In reply to Re: Starting Marplan next week; mild rant » Ilene, posted by oskarsmom on February 18, 2004, at 19:18:08
> Hi Ilene,
>
> When it comes to the B vitamins I believe you are right that it is the B-6 that is the important one. But I think that the B vitamins act more effectively as a group so that's the rationale for the "B-100 complex". That's the name to look for. There's a lot of brands, I'm taking "Nature's Way" because it's a capsule.
>
> I'm going to ask my p-doc about dividing the dose too.
>
> God, I hope this stuff works (for both of us)!
>
> oskarsmomI'm feeling better today! I don't know why, for sure. Not amazingly better, but on the upswing. I didn't take any Klonopin today; a good sign.
I take vitamins when I remember. I'm trying to remember every day, but you're supposed to take certain vitamins with food, and I eat a little irregularly.
I'll be taking 10 mg. Marplan tonight. I hope it won't keep me awake.
I stopped taking Risperdal. My pdoc says I can start taking it again if I get irritable.
Hope you are doing better, too.
I.
This is the end of the thread.
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