![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 16:24:07
So, lately, virtually everyone in my life whom I talk to about my T is telling me I should stop seeing her. Now, I know that they want what's best for me and they think that my T has at best shown bad judgment and at worst is manipulating me to feed her own ego. My belief is that she's made a few errors because she believes in honesty (which is something I respect a lot) and because she cares about me, but sometimes, of course, I'm not sure whether to trust my instincts entirely since I know they may be influenced by my feelings of love toward her. But despite my doubts, I basically trust her (and I basically trust my judgment of people in general) and I don't want to leave her because I think that would be an enormous waste of an opportunity, given the bond we've developed between us, the fact that I think she's an incredibly talented therapist, and the amount she has already helped me in my life.
One problem I have with her is that I almost never can feel angry toward her. I have to figure out why that is. I don't generally have problems denying feelings of anger toward people -- I'm actually pretty good at feeling and recognizing anger (maybe not so good at controlling it or expressing it productively). But anyway, she thinks I'm suppressing all kinds of anger toward her and while I keep trying to come up with reasons to be angry, I just don't *feel* angry (most of the time).
On Thursday, she basically suggested that I was creating a situation where I was making other people in my life (i.e., my friends with whom I discuss my relationship with her) get angry toward her, and then I was telling her about it, rather than just telling her I was angry at her. Like, I'm externalizing my anger because I can't own it myself or something. I said I really didn't think I was doing that, and she said, "I absolutely believe that you're not doing it INTENTIONALLY."
Okay, now I'm furious at her (finally, at least). First of all, that last statement makes it impossible for me to argue with her, because basically she's telling me I'm suffering from false consciousness and it feels extremely condescending. Furthermore, the whole thing is self-serving because it excludes the possibility that the FACTS MAY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I.e., she's done some things that -- even if they weren't meant to be harmful -- were at best highly unconventional and at worst big mistakes. It's not my way of filtering them to the outside world that is making people angry at her or think I should leave her.
I'd love any of your thoughts, especially since you guys have sort of been one set of the people who hear "the facts" and then often suggest that I stop seeing her or that she might be doing something sketchy. Does what she's telling me sound like it could have any truth to it? Why does it make me feel so invalidated?
Posted by Elle2021 on March 6, 2004, at 19:01:52
In reply to Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long), posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 16:24:07
Do you mind if I ask you what you are seeing your T for (in regard to dx's). I'm pretty open with my dx's but I know that not everyone is comfortable sharing them. I understand if you don't want to, I'm just curious.
Elle
Posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 19:06:47
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » crushedout, posted by Elle2021 on March 6, 2004, at 19:01:52
well, i can never even remember my dx -- it's very generic. basically i think it's an adjustment disorder or something. but i've suffered from depression and anxiety.on thursday, the same day she said all this stuff to me that made me furious when i thought about it afterwards, she also (i didn't mention this) told me she thought maybe i was borderline. i guess maybe she's right but i always find diagnoses to be somewhat invalidating also, and borderline's an especially hard one. (she presented this very carefully to me, making sure i understood that she didn't think of this pejoratively. she also loaned me an interesting booklet about it. but it was still fairly disconcerting. no one's ever suggested i was borderline before. the booklet, though, makes it seem like an appropriate dx for me.)
why do you ask?
> Do you mind if I ask you what you are seeing your T for (in regard to dx's). I'm pretty open with my dx's but I know that not everyone is comfortable sharing them. I understand if you don't want to, I'm just curious.
> Elle
Posted by Elle2021 on March 6, 2004, at 19:29:39
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » Elle2021, posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 19:06:47
> why do you ask?
I only asked because we had been talking quite a bit lately and I didn't recall ever knowing what you were seeing her for. I was just wondering. I have Borderline traits as well (if not BPD all out). Currently one of my main dx's is PTSD. I read in my Abnormal Psychology book that some theorists believe that BPD is an extended version of PTSD.
Elle
Posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 19:36:28
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » crushedout, posted by Elle2021 on March 6, 2004, at 19:29:39
well, i originally went to see her for my temper, actually. i was in a bad relationship and when i got angry i would get really out of control. it was scary. but the issues we addressed quickly changed and that hasn't been my problem for a long time.hmm, and now she says i'm externalizing my anger. i wonder if there's some way of making sense of all this.
Posted by Rigby on March 6, 2004, at 22:55:50
In reply to Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long), posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 16:24:07
I think she makes some sense. She probably wants you to get mad b/c there's transference and she wants you to work through your anger and understand it through your dynamic with her.
You are on the one hand angry at her for what she did but, on the other, all you ever wanted was for her to what she did--which was to cross boundaries. You slam her and you defend her. You want to fire her. And you're in love with her. All in all it sounds intense, conflicted and probably a dynamic worth looking at which it sounds like she's precisely trying to do with you.
At least your focus and hers' are on you and to me that sounds like progress.
> So, lately, virtually everyone in my life whom I talk to about my T is telling me I should stop seeing her. Now, I know that they want what's best for me and they think that my T has at best shown bad judgment and at worst is manipulating me to feed her own ego. My belief is that she's made a few errors because she believes in honesty (which is something I respect a lot) and because she cares about me, but sometimes, of course, I'm not sure whether to trust my instincts entirely since I know they may be influenced by my feelings of love toward her. But despite my doubts, I basically trust her (and I basically trust my judgment of people in general) and I don't want to leave her because I think that would be an enormous waste of an opportunity, given the bond we've developed between us, the fact that I think she's an incredibly talented therapist, and the amount she has already helped me in my life.
>
> One problem I have with her is that I almost never can feel angry toward her. I have to figure out why that is. I don't generally have problems denying feelings of anger toward people -- I'm actually pretty good at feeling and recognizing anger (maybe not so good at controlling it or expressing it productively). But anyway, she thinks I'm suppressing all kinds of anger toward her and while I keep trying to come up with reasons to be angry, I just don't *feel* angry (most of the time).
>
> On Thursday, she basically suggested that I was creating a situation where I was making other people in my life (i.e., my friends with whom I discuss my relationship with her) get angry toward her, and then I was telling her about it, rather than just telling her I was angry at her. Like, I'm externalizing my anger because I can't own it myself or something. I said I really didn't think I was doing that, and she said, "I absolutely believe that you're not doing it INTENTIONALLY."
>
> Okay, now I'm furious at her (finally, at least). First of all, that last statement makes it impossible for me to argue with her, because basically she's telling me I'm suffering from false consciousness and it feels extremely condescending. Furthermore, the whole thing is self-serving because it excludes the possibility that the FACTS MAY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I.e., she's done some things that -- even if they weren't meant to be harmful -- were at best highly unconventional and at worst big mistakes. It's not my way of filtering them to the outside world that is making people angry at her or think I should leave her.
>
> I'd love any of your thoughts, especially since you guys have sort of been one set of the people who hear "the facts" and then often suggest that I stop seeing her or that she might be doing something sketchy. Does what she's telling me sound like it could have any truth to it? Why does it make me feel so invalidated?
Posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 23:14:01
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long), posted by Rigby on March 6, 2004, at 22:55:50
Thanks for the feedback, Rigby. But when have I ever slammed her? I don't think I have. Also, I'm not mad at her for crossing boundaries (although I probably should be and maybe I am unconsciously, I dunno) -- I'm just mad at her for this condescending b.s. that she gave me last time I saw her.
I don't think I've told people about what she's doing because I'm *mad* at her for it and I need them to get mad at her for me because I can't be mad. I think I've done it because a part of me has been *concerned* for myself, wondering if what she's doing is kosher, and because I've want her to cross boundaries, I don't trust that I'll protect myself on my own. Maybe a small piece of it is anger but I think most of it is wanting to keep myself in check, out of danger. And folks (like you, for example, Rigby) have sometimes gotten mad at her when you've heard the "facts" -- but not because I've *manipulated* you into getting mad at her. But because what she's done has been sketchy. She's set this up so it looks like *your* anger is coming from *my* pathology rather than *her* actions. And there's no way I can talk her out of it because my manipulation is all unconscious so I can't even deny it. You see what I mean? You see the bind she's put me in?
Do you disagree and still think what she's doing is good for me? I think it's a way for her to avoid taking responsbility, which is understandable, since admitting that maybe she's been stringing me along or hurting me in some other unnecessary way would make her feel like a jerk.
> I think she makes some sense. She probably wants you to get mad b/c there's transference and she wants you to work through your anger and understand it through your dynamic with her.
>
> You are on the one hand angry at her for what she did but, on the other, all you ever wanted was for her to what she did--which was to cross boundaries. You slam her and you defend her. You want to fire her. And you're in love with her. All in all it sounds intense, conflicted and probably a dynamic worth looking at which it sounds like she's precisely trying to do with you.
>
> At least your focus and hers' are on you and to me that sounds like progress.
>
> > So, lately, virtually everyone in my life whom I talk to about my T is telling me I should stop seeing her. Now, I know that they want what's best for me and they think that my T has at best shown bad judgment and at worst is manipulating me to feed her own ego. My belief is that she's made a few errors because she believes in honesty (which is something I respect a lot) and because she cares about me, but sometimes, of course, I'm not sure whether to trust my instincts entirely since I know they may be influenced by my feelings of love toward her. But despite my doubts, I basically trust her (and I basically trust my judgment of people in general) and I don't want to leave her because I think that would be an enormous waste of an opportunity, given the bond we've developed between us, the fact that I think she's an incredibly talented therapist, and the amount she has already helped me in my life.
> >
> > One problem I have with her is that I almost never can feel angry toward her. I have to figure out why that is. I don't generally have problems denying feelings of anger toward people -- I'm actually pretty good at feeling and recognizing anger (maybe not so good at controlling it or expressing it productively). But anyway, she thinks I'm suppressing all kinds of anger toward her and while I keep trying to come up with reasons to be angry, I just don't *feel* angry (most of the time).
> >
> > On Thursday, she basically suggested that I was creating a situation where I was making other people in my life (i.e., my friends with whom I discuss my relationship with her) get angry toward her, and then I was telling her about it, rather than just telling her I was angry at her. Like, I'm externalizing my anger because I can't own it myself or something. I said I really didn't think I was doing that, and she said, "I absolutely believe that you're not doing it INTENTIONALLY."
> >
> > Okay, now I'm furious at her (finally, at least). First of all, that last statement makes it impossible for me to argue with her, because basically she's telling me I'm suffering from false consciousness and it feels extremely condescending. Furthermore, the whole thing is self-serving because it excludes the possibility that the FACTS MAY SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. I.e., she's done some things that -- even if they weren't meant to be harmful -- were at best highly unconventional and at worst big mistakes. It's not my way of filtering them to the outside world that is making people angry at her or think I should leave her.
> >
> > I'd love any of your thoughts, especially since you guys have sort of been one set of the people who hear "the facts" and then often suggest that I stop seeing her or that she might be doing something sketchy. Does what she's telling me sound like it could have any truth to it? Why does it make me feel so invalidated?
>
>
Posted by fallsfall on March 6, 2004, at 23:25:57
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » Rigby, posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 23:14:01
My therapist has been talking about unconscious motivation recently, too. This is how he explained it.
I can't prove that I DON'T have an unconscious motivation. He just wants me to accept that it is POSSIBLE that I do.
He can't prove that I DO have an unconscious motivation. I just want him to accept that is it POSSIBLE that I don't.
I think that we are both a bit more openminded. But there is no way to tell exactly what is going on.
Yes, it is frustrating - because I know that Consciously I DON"T want to have this motivation.
I don't think this makes it much clearer, but it is the best I can do for now...
Crushed, I think that SOME things your therapist says make sense, but SOME things don't. Did you have a consultation a little while ago?
Posted by tabitha on March 7, 2004, at 1:11:43
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » Rigby, posted by crushedout on March 6, 2004, at 23:14:01
It's confusing when therapists try to work with feelings they claim you have, but you don't feel directly. I get into a similar situation in my therapy about my mom. My therapist will point out things that look like displaced anger at my mom-- logically it makes sense, but I still can't feel that anger directed at my mom.
Maybe you can think of it through your friends' eyes. If they thought your therapist was violating your boundaries and possibly taking advantage of you.. wouldn't it make sense for them to be angry at her? Even though what they feel is mostly protective of you? Feeling protective can also bring up anger-- anger at the people who are maybe threatening the safety of the people you feel protective toward. Does that make sense? So even if you're mostly aware of feeling protective toward yourself, it might make sense that you'd also have some anger.
Anyway it sounds like a good area to explore with your therapist. I feel hopeful that you can make progress with this complicated dynamic you've got going with her. It sounds very difficult.
Posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 9:55:06
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » crushedout, posted by fallsfall on March 6, 2004, at 23:25:57
fallsfall,thanks, that was helpful. yes, it's not that i think she's wrong, but that she should leave the door open somehow to the *possibility* that she's wrong, that there's another explanation for my behavior.
i actually think there may be a grain of truth in what she's saying but that there are other, much bigger reasons for my behavior that shouldn't be overlooked. for example, my wanting to keep her and myself in check because she's done things that don't make sense to me therapeutically.
actually, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced that i get angry at her for completely different reasons than others do. they get angry at her for crossing boundaries. i get angry at her for *not* crossing *more* boundaries.
anyway, no i never had a real consultation. but i've been talking to an old family friend who's a therapist on the phone a lot, and i called another therapist once who very quickly concluded i should end treatment. i was really unimpressed with her rash advice. we'd only talked for about 10 minutes. but that's another story.
> My therapist has been talking about unconscious motivation recently, too. This is how he explained it.
>
> I can't prove that I DON'T have an unconscious motivation. He just wants me to accept that it is POSSIBLE that I do.
>
> He can't prove that I DO have an unconscious motivation. I just want him to accept that is it POSSIBLE that I don't.
>
> I think that we are both a bit more openminded. But there is no way to tell exactly what is going on.
>
> Yes, it is frustrating - because I know that Consciously I DON"T want to have this motivation.
>
> I don't think this makes it much clearer, but it is the best I can do for now...
>
> Crushed, I think that SOME things your therapist says make sense, but SOME things don't. Did you have a consultation a little while ago?
Posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 10:00:06
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » crushedout, posted by tabitha on March 7, 2004, at 1:11:43
thanks, tabitha. yes, that makes a lot of sense, although i'm still not sure it's true, but it's worth exploring, you're right. and it makes me feel better that you have hope for me.
Posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 10:11:40
In reply to Re: Feeling invalidated, angry, confused (kinda long) » crushedout, posted by tabitha on March 7, 2004, at 1:11:43
Okay, so I was thinking a lot about this lying in bed last night, and here's one of the problems I have about expressing anger toward my therapist. It seems to me she has a conflict of interest. Usually, when I tell her about something someone did (for example, my father) that I either feel angry about or *should* feel angry about, she says something about how outrageous what he did was, or how it makes her angry, or something to that effect to validate me. You know what I mean? Sometimes she's even needed to be angry *for* me because I don't feel it (I know this contradicts what I said earlier in the thread about being in touch with my anger -- perhaps I was wrong about that at least partly).
Anyway, so if I tell her -- if we tell our therapists we're angry at them for something they actually did that was f'ed up -- not just anger because they can't meet all our needs or some other type of irrational anger which seems easier for them to validate -- how can they validate us without admitting to themselves that they've been jerks? What I mean is, unlike when you're discussing anger at another person for something they did *to* you, when you're discussing your anger at your T for something your T did that was "wrong," the T has a conflict between validating your anger toward her (by saying "what a bad T!!!") and protecting her own ego.
Am I making any sense?
Posted by Rigby on March 7, 2004, at 10:28:18
In reply to Another question re anger toward therapists, posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 10:11:40
Oh. I totally get this. And it is crazy making. It's called gaslighting I think? The therapist does something to legitimately tick you off and they chalk it up to your issues (in your case anger.)
This absolutely happened with me and my therapist's boundary crossings and, frankly, I just needed to let it go because she wasn't gonna back down. And, when I thought back on it, she *did* apologize--a few times. But I couldn't move on. I just kept feeling that she wasn't owning her stuff. In retrospect--and this is a year-long retrospect--I gained a *huuuuuge* insight from this that has springboarded me to another level. But it was very, very, very painful and frustrating and literally took a year to get to. I actually even, after this major shift for me, was angry at how *long* and painful it was to get here. Yeah, it was about her not owning her stuff but that was only the surface of the insight--it was echoing back really far and the dynamic was permeating lots of areas of my life.
So my guess is, if you can stick this out with her--her not owning her stuff, crossing boundaries, working through your confusion and anger around these things and with her, you could be rewarded with some really excellent gains.
I *only* say this now--I would *not* have said it in the middle of things where I was mad at my therapist possibly in a similar vein as you are with yours. And yes, I was mad at her for what she did *and* mad at her for not doing more of it. I had friends telling me to quit. But ultimately my gut told me to see it through. I tried to quit actually but it was way too conflicting and went against my instincts way too much.
I do think she's crossed boundaries. And you seemed upset about it. So I and I think others said she's being bizarro and unprofessional. *But* sometimes therapists screw up and go overboard to try and help and they're only human and sometimes that's what you need.
Where there's smoke there's fire. If you're feeling *alot* in therapy (anger, frustration, eroticism) there's a lot to be gained and it sounds to me like you're in the eye of the storm. A hard place to be but a place where, if you can work through it (brace yourself though, it could be a while) you will really reap benefits. I don't think there's any magic pill to get through it easier or faster.
> Okay, so I was thinking a lot about this lying in bed last night, and here's one of the problems I have about expressing anger toward my therapist. It seems to me she has a conflict of interest. Usually, when I tell her about something someone did (for example, my father) that I either feel angry about or *should* feel angry about, she says something about how outrageous what he did was, or how it makes her angry, or something to that effect to validate me. You know what I mean? Sometimes she's even needed to be angry *for* me because I don't feel it (I know this contradicts what I said earlier in the thread about being in touch with my anger -- perhaps I was wrong about that at least partly).
>
> Anyway, so if I tell her -- if we tell our therapists we're angry at them for something they actually did that was f'ed up -- not just anger because they can't meet all our needs or some other type of irrational anger which seems easier for them to validate -- how can they validate us without admitting to themselves that they've been jerks? What I mean is, unlike when you're discussing anger at another person for something they did *to* you, when you're discussing your anger at your T for something your T did that was "wrong," the T has a conflict between validating your anger toward her (by saying "what a bad T!!!") and protecting her own ego.
>
> Am I making any sense?
Posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 10:38:16
In reply to Re: Another question re anger toward therapists, posted by Rigby on March 7, 2004, at 10:28:18
I wonder if sharing the insight you ultimately gained, or more about the process you went through would be helpful. it may be too much to ask, also. but if you think it might be helpful, *and* you feel comfortable/have time, energy to share, that would be cool.
> Oh. I totally get this. And it is crazy making. It's called gaslighting I think? The therapist does something to legitimately tick you off and they chalk it up to your issues (in your case anger.)
>
> This absolutely happened with me and my therapist's boundary crossings and, frankly, I just needed to let it go because she wasn't gonna back down. And, when I thought back on it, she *did* apologize--a few times. But I couldn't move on. I just kept feeling that she wasn't owning her stuff. In retrospect--and this is a year-long retrospect--I gained a *huuuuuge* insight from this that has springboarded me to another level. But it was very, very, very painful and frustrating and literally took a year to get to. I actually even, after this major shift for me, was angry at how *long* and painful it was to get here. Yeah, it was about her not owning her stuff but that was only the surface of the insight--it was echoing back really far and the dynamic was permeating lots of areas of my life.
>
> So my guess is, if you can stick this out with her--her not owning her stuff, crossing boundaries, working through your confusion and anger around these things and with her, you could be rewarded with some really excellent gains.
>
> I *only* say this now--I would *not* have said it in the middle of things where I was mad at my therapist possibly in a similar vein as you are with yours. And yes, I was mad at her for what she did *and* mad at her for not doing more of it. I had friends telling me to quit. But ultimately my gut told me to see it through. I tried to quit actually but it was way too conflicting and went against my instincts way too much.
>
> I do think she's crossed boundaries. And you seemed upset about it. So I and I think others said she's being bizarro and unprofessional. *But* sometimes therapists screw up and go overboard to try and help and they're only human and sometimes that's what you need.
>
> Where there's smoke there's fire. If you're feeling *alot* in therapy (anger, frustration, eroticism) there's a lot to be gained and it sounds to me like you're in the eye of the storm. A hard place to be but a place where, if you can work through it (brace yourself though, it could be a while) you will really reap benefits. I don't think there's any magic pill to get through it easier or faster.
>
> > Okay, so I was thinking a lot about this lying in bed last night, and here's one of the problems I have about expressing anger toward my therapist. It seems to me she has a conflict of interest. Usually, when I tell her about something someone did (for example, my father) that I either feel angry about or *should* feel angry about, she says something about how outrageous what he did was, or how it makes her angry, or something to that effect to validate me. You know what I mean? Sometimes she's even needed to be angry *for* me because I don't feel it (I know this contradicts what I said earlier in the thread about being in touch with my anger -- perhaps I was wrong about that at least partly).
> >
> > Anyway, so if I tell her -- if we tell our therapists we're angry at them for something they actually did that was f'ed up -- not just anger because they can't meet all our needs or some other type of irrational anger which seems easier for them to validate -- how can they validate us without admitting to themselves that they've been jerks? What I mean is, unlike when you're discussing anger at another person for something they did *to* you, when you're discussing your anger at your T for something your T did that was "wrong," the T has a conflict between validating your anger toward her (by saying "what a bad T!!!") and protecting her own ego.
> >
> > Am I making any sense?
>
>
Posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 14:30:40
In reply to Re: Another question re anger toward therapists, posted by Rigby on March 7, 2004, at 10:28:18
yes, gaslighting. i think that's exactly what i'm talking about. i just reread the gaslighting chapter in "in session". that was really helpful. thank you.
> Oh. I totally get this. And it is crazy making. It's called gaslighting I think? The therapist does something to legitimately tick you off and they chalk it up to your issues (in your case anger.)
>
> This absolutely happened with me and my therapist's boundary crossings and, frankly, I just needed to let it go because she wasn't gonna back down. And, when I thought back on it, she *did* apologize--a few times. But I couldn't move on. I just kept feeling that she wasn't owning her stuff. In retrospect--and this is a year-long retrospect--I gained a *huuuuuge* insight from this that has springboarded me to another level. But it was very, very, very painful and frustrating and literally took a year to get to. I actually even, after this major shift for me, was angry at how *long* and painful it was to get here. Yeah, it was about her not owning her stuff but that was only the surface of the insight--it was echoing back really far and the dynamic was permeating lots of areas of my life.
>
> So my guess is, if you can stick this out with her--her not owning her stuff, crossing boundaries, working through your confusion and anger around these things and with her, you could be rewarded with some really excellent gains.
>
> I *only* say this now--I would *not* have said it in the middle of things where I was mad at my therapist possibly in a similar vein as you are with yours. And yes, I was mad at her for what she did *and* mad at her for not doing more of it. I had friends telling me to quit. But ultimately my gut told me to see it through. I tried to quit actually but it was way too conflicting and went against my instincts way too much.
>
> I do think she's crossed boundaries. And you seemed upset about it. So I and I think others said she's being bizarro and unprofessional. *But* sometimes therapists screw up and go overboard to try and help and they're only human and sometimes that's what you need.
>
> Where there's smoke there's fire. If you're feeling *alot* in therapy (anger, frustration, eroticism) there's a lot to be gained and it sounds to me like you're in the eye of the storm. A hard place to be but a place where, if you can work through it (brace yourself though, it could be a while) you will really reap benefits. I don't think there's any magic pill to get through it easier or faster.
>
> > Okay, so I was thinking a lot about this lying in bed last night, and here's one of the problems I have about expressing anger toward my therapist. It seems to me she has a conflict of interest. Usually, when I tell her about something someone did (for example, my father) that I either feel angry about or *should* feel angry about, she says something about how outrageous what he did was, or how it makes her angry, or something to that effect to validate me. You know what I mean? Sometimes she's even needed to be angry *for* me because I don't feel it (I know this contradicts what I said earlier in the thread about being in touch with my anger -- perhaps I was wrong about that at least partly).
> >
> > Anyway, so if I tell her -- if we tell our therapists we're angry at them for something they actually did that was f'ed up -- not just anger because they can't meet all our needs or some other type of irrational anger which seems easier for them to validate -- how can they validate us without admitting to themselves that they've been jerks? What I mean is, unlike when you're discussing anger at another person for something they did *to* you, when you're discussing your anger at your T for something your T did that was "wrong," the T has a conflict between validating your anger toward her (by saying "what a bad T!!!") and protecting her own ego.
> >
> > Am I making any sense?
>
>
Posted by Rigby on March 7, 2004, at 17:27:43
In reply to Re: Another question re anger toward therapists » Rigby, posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 10:38:16
I think sharing the specific insight is probably irrelevant. But it was huge for me and getting past a certain pattern of thinking was I'd say nearly life changing. And it came from a year's worth of muddling through, mostly on my own, actually, this issue with my therapist.
One thing that might help that I did was to just tell yourself that this week what you'll focus on is you and your life and lay off the dynamic with her. Just let it go for a week. Or two. For one, it forces you to look at what you've got sans therapy drama (can be painfully enlightening) and also it is actually kind of helpful to lay off the dynamic and let the therapy take a different rhythym for a while.
Posted by crushedout on March 7, 2004, at 17:48:06
In reply to Re: Another question re anger toward therapists, posted by Rigby on March 7, 2004, at 17:27:43
well, right now i need to focus on my anger about the gaslighting. it's urgent that i address it because otherwise i turn the anger inward and either hurt myself, get severely depressed, or both. besides, that hasn't been my problem (focusing too much on the therapeutic relationship) -- i have the opposite problem: i tend to avoid it. and it's something that i really need to stop avoiding at this point.> I think sharing the specific insight is probably irrelevant. But it was huge for me and getting past a certain pattern of thinking was I'd say nearly life changing. And it came from a year's worth of muddling through, mostly on my own, actually, this issue with my therapist.
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> One thing that might help that I did was to just tell yourself that this week what you'll focus on is you and your life and lay off the dynamic with her. Just let it go for a week. Or two. For one, it forces you to look at what you've got sans therapy drama (can be painfully enlightening) and also it is actually kind of helpful to lay off the dynamic and let the therapy take a different rhythym for a while.
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