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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on January 5, 2006, at 20:34:52
....afraid of you? When someone's afraid of something or someone else, it means they perceive a threat in .. that person or thing.
And I became a threat, he made me see myself as this wicked evil threat to him, and I don't know how I'm supposed to get past that, without a lot of therapy. Or personal strength. I try to rely on my personal strength, and I try to remember that just because his hand was sweaty and hot, shaking mine, and just because he looked very very uncomfortable while I was telling him all this stuff (Of Course, I mean, how many times are they Warned and told and experience this stuff??? I knew it was funny, I knew the whole time that the situation was laughably funny. It really is. But for me it was just effing.. sad, I knew I was in for it, as soon as I realized my feelings and how they'd gotten away from me. He must've been sweating bullets I'm surprised his hand wasn't actually slippery ... and he didn't want to shake it, knowing I might catch on. Us patients are necessarily always stupid)
...
How to see myself as not a threat, if he's treated me as a threat since then? Which he definitely truly and really has. It's like the stereotypical therapist trying to unload a lovesick patient, men and women alike, they all know about this stuff. I felt absolutely ill about how he must have felt about me .. I felt sick to be sickening, and man did I ever let him know how sick it felt. I tried anyway. Into his machine. He scared the bejesus out of me and he still does, just the thought of him out there judging me without caring and wanting to care or know or understand me, not really in a real person-to-person sense, still is crazy-making. It's crazy-making.
He can use that, you know.
I've left myself perversely open and vulnerable.
While he, rightly so in the eyes of society, has left himself protected to the nth degree. His life is worth much more than mine, if we were honest about it.
That's how everybody sees it, we all see things this way.
I think I'm really.. perverse. Is that learned thinking or is it natural?
Posted by muffled on January 5, 2006, at 20:55:05
In reply to How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by Susan47 on January 5, 2006, at 20:34:52
Susan, are you able to get therapy where you at?
Muffled
Posted by orchid on January 5, 2006, at 22:57:02
In reply to How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by Susan47 on January 5, 2006, at 20:34:52
You just have to let go without further analysis of his behavior or yours or what went wrong or how he made you feel or what he felt etc etc. It doesn't make sense to ruminate further when you know you won't get any further with it.
Posted by one woman cine on January 6, 2006, at 13:36:55
In reply to How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by Susan47 on January 5, 2006, at 20:34:52
Maybe he really is afraid of you. Put yourself in his shoes. I understand you have been hurt and are hurt currently. But what you do affects people. I don't think you need to forgive him for being afraid of you. I think, in fact, you are projecting. Do you feel he needs to forgive you?
I don't think it's about being lovesick or anything else.
"I felt sick to be sickening, and man did I ever let him know how sick it felt. "
This can be scary to someone who no longer sees themself in a relationship with you.& by continuing to call, even when you know "it's crazy" is setting yourself up to be seen as "crazy". You are further victimizing yourself by perpetuating the behavior and the repetitious cycle. No matter what he did, no one else is responsible for the present situation but you.
Posted by happyflower on January 6, 2006, at 15:25:45
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by one woman cine on January 6, 2006, at 13:36:55
Susan, I believe you would stop doing this if you could. I think saying to you just to get over it, is like telling a depressed person, just be happy. Are you seeing a therapist at this time? Can you reach out to a professional who can maybe help you with your pain?
My T says telling yourself to stop thinking about something is useless, because you have to constantly "think" about not thinking about it. Not sure if that makes sense.
So I am not going to tell you to just get over your pain, or stop thinking about your T , or stop feeling what you are feeling. I truely think you can't help what you are feeling, it isn't your fault either. I believe your T had his role in this too. Please seek help before you do something you might regret.
Posted by Susan47 on January 6, 2006, at 18:29:16
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » Susan47, posted by muffled on January 5, 2006, at 20:55:05
Well, I don't know. I see my psych next week and I don't know if that's the sort of thing you talk to him about. He's mostly about prescribing. So really, no I suppose. We have a terrible system when it comes to psychological care. You have to pay.. through the nose to get good help.. and bad help, too, apparently. :( Or no help, or help that damages the sh*t out of you. Makes damage worse. But on the other hand, I suppose I should be grateful, I mean, if he hadn't triggered me so intensely I suppose I would still be living in a fog.
Posted by Susan47 on January 6, 2006, at 18:33:58
In reply to At some point, you just have to let go » Susan47, posted by orchid on January 5, 2006, at 22:57:02
Yes, I agree.. on this level it makes no sense at all. But on some emotional level it isn't that easy to forget.. I can't forgive him, for how he made me feel. The thing is, maybe I can't forgive him because I feel so bad about the way I was treated, the way he perceived me, and I need some resolution in the way of acknowledgement and apology. I feel extremely angry I'm not getting that from him, because I worry and I mean really, he shouldn't get away free from something like this. Even now he probably thinks he didn't deserve all the phone calls I left on his machine, but that is his ignorance and it bothers me on a really deep level, because I see it as a grave injustice. I do. I really really do.
Posted by Susan47 on January 6, 2006, at 18:46:24
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by happyflower on January 6, 2006, at 15:25:45
> Susan, I believe you would stop doing this if you could. I think saying to you just to get over it, is like telling a depressed person, just be happy. Are you seeing a therapist at this time? Can you reach out to a professional who can maybe help you with your pain?
> My T says telling yourself to stop thinking about something is useless, because you have to constantly "think" about not thinking about it. Not sure if that makes sense.
> So I am not going to tell you to just get over your pain, or stop thinking about your T , or stop feeling what you are feeling. I truely think you can't help what you are feeling, it isn't your fault either. I believe your T had his role in this too. Please seek help before you do something you might regret.
I've already done everything to regret, which is making a bunch of phone calls and leaving messages on an answering machine, the machine of an ex-therapist, because he'd given me up as a patient, and telling this machine which may have been listened to by who-knows-what persons that I was completely messed up, and using what happened between us without words, which was unbeknownst to me, hurtful to me, as a pivot point for the pain which absolutely had to be let go. And using him for this purpose in spite of the fact that he asked me repeatedly, not to. And not feeling guilty for any inconvenience or anything else I was causing him, because I felt in my heart that he really deserved it for disrespecting me so much.
A look can convey a great deal. In spite of anything he might be telling himself, because I think I might be right about the character of this man, he knows this as well as I do. And he knows, he knows. And the best thing for him to do, and always has been, is to keep silent and to keep distanced.
It's too late for regrets. I don't regret this.
Posted by Susan47 on January 6, 2006, at 19:03:56
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by one woman cine on January 6, 2006, at 13:36:55
> Maybe he really is afraid of you. Put yourself in his shoes. I understand you have been hurt and are hurt currently. But what you do affects people. I don't think you need to forgive him for being afraid of you. I think, in fact, you are projecting. Do you feel he needs to forgive you?
>
If he's angry with me, it's probably in his own best interest to work through it somehow, and that would likely take the form of some sort of forgiveness. If I've hurt him, it's because he allowed it .. if it's hurt him personally or hurt his business, it's because he didn't deal with things in the proper manner .. which was mostly, to be upfront and dogged about communicating things properly. Which he did not do.
He very much shied away from me in that respect, after showing me in this nonverbal way that he was.. intrigued. Is this an act? I mean, does he do that with any client he chooses? I don't know. But it was upsetting to be treated in the manner which he did treat me, and the projection of events was not proper.
Not at all.
I do not take more than a very small fraction of responsibility for creating a bad situation, and the fact is that I can't. If I were to do this all again with full KNOWLEDGE of what was going on underneath the surface, in psychological terms, then I don't even think I would deserve to be "forgiven".
Put it this way.
"Forgive", for me, can't even come into the picture at this point. A person has to have done something wrong, and know that, and ASK to be forgiven (which generally means that they feel guilty about it AND are acknowledge responsibility... which, sickeningly enough, a therapist cannot and will not ever do.. NOT EVER, does ANYBODY out there understand the significance of that, for me??? Probably not. But I'll bet, plenty of people are living with this kind of thing - patients)> I don't think it's about being lovesick or anything else.
>
> "I felt sick to be sickening, and man did I ever let him know how sick it felt. "
> This can be scary to someone who no longer sees themself in a relationship with you.
>
Really? At the time, he was still my therapist. Only of course he calls himself a psychologist. Maybe there's a difference. Is there a difference? Because I didn't think your doctor was supposed to be afraid of you without talking to you about it. So if he was scared by that, he really should have confronted me about the sickening element, about what was actually being said in the calls.> & by continuing to call, even when you know "it's crazy" is setting yourself up to be seen as "crazy". You are further victimizing yourself by perpetuating the behavior and the repetitious cycle. No matter what he did, no one else is responsible for the present situation but you.
Oh yes, I did victimize myself. Silly, silly me. How lovely that he was not the victim. How lovely for him. Or did I? Did I make him the victim. He certainly has behaved like one. THAT is what really really makes me feel sick.
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2006, at 19:15:30
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » muffled, posted by Susan47 on January 6, 2006, at 18:29:16
This is exactly the sort of thing you should talk to your psychiatrist about for the simple reason that there are prescribing implications to things that are going on in our lives. And this is a very big thing. Even my pdoc, Dr. "Just the Meds, Ma'am", would want to know about what's going on. Everything. The original look, how you feel about your former therapist, and your relationship with his answering machine.
You don't need to be embarassed.
But you really should tell him.
Posted by Susan47 on January 6, 2006, at 19:26:19
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » Susan47, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2006, at 19:15:30
I think you're right.
For a long time though because I had these "love" feelings for the therapist, I absolutely couldn't tell anybody because it threatened the relationship I wanted to have. God, I mean really Dinah, the whole thing is really kind of SICK, right? I KNEW that though I knew it was, and that made me even more paranoid and disgusted with myself, and yeah, I maybe should say something. I'll have to see. I wondered too, sometimes, and I do now, if I was using the fact that he had this position in the relationship that he'd violated BUT also that it couldn't be proved, except through my adverse reaction WHICH also had the ability to get me into trouble, and which he used, in the end. Which shows how impermeable he thinks he is/was, which is .. nauseating, really. I mean, I still love the guy on some level I couldn't explain. I like to think the best of people. I do. Really. I tried for MONTHS to think the best of him, but the worst of what I'd seen and the way he looked at me, sometimes, well it got to the point where I couldn't look at his face anymore, I had to look at the walls mostly. Near the end of my visits, I wasn't even looking at him for most of a session.
I'm giving the hugest, heaviest sigh right now. I mean, really. In so many ways I could be grateful to this man, because he wasn't really ever my therapist, he was always a man first, after the first couple of visits.. I don't know, I thought there was some kind of undercurrent and I didn't feel happy or comfortable with it. I'm still freaked out about seeing him about town, if I do, and on one level I hope I don't but on another unless he hides out, which would be terrible, or unless I do, which I do ... I suppose it's bound to happen. It frightens me, mostly because it might be more of a non-event or even a bad one .. and that would just "kill" me.
I would bring my posts into the psych, but I can't afford the bloody ink so I think I'll just keep plugging away at understanding this.
Thanks, guys. You're really helping me, all your comments are a help.
Posted by Tamar on January 6, 2006, at 19:32:20
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » Susan47, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2006, at 19:15:30
> This is exactly the sort of thing you should talk to your psychiatrist about for the simple reason that there are prescribing implications to things that are going on in our lives. And this is a very big thing. Even my pdoc, Dr. "Just the Meds, Ma'am", would want to know about what's going on. Everything. The original look, how you feel about your former therapist, and your relationship with his answering machine.
>
> You don't need to be embarassed.
>
> But you really should tell him.I completely agree with what Dinah says. Telling your pdoc sounds like an excellent idea.
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2006, at 19:40:38
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » Dinah, posted by Susan47 on January 6, 2006, at 19:26:19
Those aren't your only two choices, you know. :)
If you can't afford to print out your posts, you don't have to continue to deal with this yourself. You can tell him with your own words in person, or you can write it down with pen and ink, and bring him your writings.
Please tell it all to your pdoc.
Posted by madeline on January 6, 2006, at 19:54:16
In reply to How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by Susan47 on January 5, 2006, at 20:34:52
I absolutely agree with all the others, tell your pdoc, tell someone.
(((((((((((susan))))))))))))))
Posted by LauraBeane on January 7, 2006, at 0:33:15
In reply to How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by Susan47 on January 5, 2006, at 20:34:52
Susan, I am another one out here who has been reading your posts and wishing I could help. Please, please tell your pdoc what has happened to you and how it makes you feel. Please do that. And then come back and tell us. So many people care about you.
Posted by Susan47 on January 8, 2006, at 16:20:56
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » Susan47, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2006, at 19:40:38
Well, we'll see. I don't know how brave I'll be feeling about all of this .. it's a few days away. We'll see.
Posted by Susan47 on January 8, 2006, at 16:22:04
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being, posted by madeline on January 6, 2006, at 19:54:16
Thanks, and I have told two people and it was okay. It was good.
Posted by Susan47 on January 8, 2006, at 16:23:15
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » Susan47, posted by LauraBeane on January 7, 2006, at 0:33:15
Wow, LauraBeane that's so nice, thanks for posting that! But you know, my pdoc is a man. And men have, in my experience, egos too big for their butts. So it might be too hard to do. Really, seriously. We'll see.
Posted by LauraBeane on January 8, 2006, at 18:37:56
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » LauraBeane, posted by Susan47 on January 8, 2006, at 16:23:15
Your comment really made me laugh. Yeah. I have met a few who were o.k. But there is still that ego thing.
Personally I have trouble connecting with a woman, but in this particular case I too might prefer talking to a woman therapist. Whatever. I just don't think it helps you to have to hold it all alone. It's too heavy, that hurt.
Take care,
L.
Posted by Susan47 on January 9, 2006, at 22:52:47
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » Susan47, posted by LauraBeane on January 8, 2006, at 18:37:56
Well, female therapists have the ability to hurt me as well, I think really it's more who the person is than their sex. But in the past, honestly, I couldn't see men clearly because I was just too afraid of them all. Things have changed, lately, and I think I could handle anyone who had gained my trust, now. But I also think I'm a much better judge of who deserves that trust .. at least, I like to think so. Hah hahahhahaha .. manic me. Just kidding. It's time to make things a bit lighter. I have to get over this hump, I really must. Hey thanks for your support Laura.
Posted by Susan47 on January 12, 2006, at 11:34:22
In reply to Re: How do you forgive your therapist for being » LauraBeane, posted by Susan47 on January 9, 2006, at 22:52:47
I have to go through every one of my posts from the beginning. I have to save every single one, and I have to read them word for word as a Prosecutor might. And with the understanding of who I was then, but I'm not far enough away yet from who I was then, to be able to do this work well. I can't afford help. I try not to hate him, this is where my trouble lies. Because he didn't apologize, when he should have, and that's my fault now, I didn't know what was wrong what was needed what had been done, and now I need to get a greater understanding of that but I just don't have enough of myself to give to that, but it's being forced upon me, am I paranoid or is this nightmare real?
Posted by Susan47 on January 13, 2006, at 13:05:44
In reply to Too Much Happening, but I have to do this, posted by Susan47 on January 12, 2006, at 11:34:22
I can't allow myself to feel that strongly, because if I'm angry then I get suspicious of him, and suspicion is what leads to stronger emotions, like h-a-t-e, the one everyone's mother told them never to use, because hate is a poison, and poison destroys... so you have to counter it, and love is the only thing strong enough to overcome hate, so love then becomes a necessary thing, and it's a love/hate relationship before you know it. And love and hate cannot possibly live together in one vehicle, so they cycle, and the cycle once started needs to be broken at the right place and the right time, and there's only one person who has the key, and I think that's where the gatekeeper and the keymaster come into it .. oh master .. you see how INSANE I am? I worry myself .. it's the sheep in the field ... or maybe it's insanity.
Posted by muffled on January 14, 2006, at 1:19:39
In reply to Re: Too Much Happening, but I have to do this, posted by Susan47 on January 13, 2006, at 13:05:44
Susan 47. read lotsa your posts awhile back. You ok? You don't seem ok to me somehow. I want you to be ok. How can you get what you need to be ok? New T? New meds? I think you need something. You seem hurting. I'm sorry you hurt. Wish I could make things better for you. :-(
Lotsa people care bout you.
Take care,
Please,
Muffled
Posted by Susan47 on January 16, 2006, at 10:30:46
In reply to Re: Too Much Happening, but I have to do this » Susan47, posted by muffled on January 14, 2006, at 1:19:39
> Susan 47. read lotsa your posts awhile back. You ok? You don't seem ok to me somehow. I want you to be ok. How can you get what you need to be ok? New T? New meds? I think you need something. You seem hurting. I'm sorry you hurt. Wish I could make things better for you. :-(
> Lotsa people care bout you.
> Take care,
> Please,
> Muffled
What a beautiful person you must be, because your post is evocative of real Caring.. wow. I feel really.. humble, you know? Because so many people really do seem to care, and take time from their own problems to help somebody like me, and I love you for doing that and everyone who does that for anyone else, free of charge, you understand, just caring and understanding for the sake of that.
Thanks, I stayed away this weekend from the reality of what was and tried to immerse myself in what is ... it was lovely. ((Muffled)) :)
This is the end of the thread.
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