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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
.....does it?
I don't think so :-(
I miss her. It hurts.
Posted by 10derHeart on May 18, 2006, at 22:14:10
In reply to does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
I'm so sorry you still sound so sad, sv.
But I'm very glad to see your name here.
I think of you and wonder how you are sometimes.
I think it can fade gently away in time. I still miss my former T and it's been nearly 2 years, but the pain is tucked away and it's not so bad now. My current T. made a world of differnce, but of course, now I am very attached to him...<sigh> It's all hard, isn't it?
And my situation isn't the same, 'cause we've been in email contact and things ended well. So it's not fair for me to compare, I suppose...but I still believe when you find the right path for other things in your life, then that precious relationship can fall into a special place, one that can ache from time to time, but in a bittersweet way that's quite bearable.
And I don't blame you if you don't believe a word....(((((((SV))))))))
Posted by orchid on May 18, 2006, at 22:36:13
In reply to does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
Hi SV
Nice to see you around here... I had been thinking of you every now and then.Yes it is very hard... I won't say it will get better, .. It is rotten, and I am only sorry you are going through the pain which you didn't deserve. You are a good person, and for whatever reason your T did this to you, you don't deserve it. Maybe she is n't as good as you thought her to be. No good T or person will leave a patient to hurt like this no matter what the reason is. You deserve better.
Posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 23:19:39
In reply to does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
I'm sad for you. I can't answer your question but I have to believe that time fades the major losses and though it will ache, it won't burn anymore. I wish there was a way for you to have closure. Mostly I wish you could find what you found with her in a special someone who would fill that hole in your heart.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by B2chica on May 19, 2006, at 9:03:55
In reply to does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
((((((((((((((((((SV))))))))))))))))))))
haven't seen you for a while.
so sorry you are hurting. i'm afraid i have no words of wisdom but i wanted to send you a cyber hug and let you know i care.
b2c.
Posted by happyflower on May 19, 2006, at 21:11:52
In reply to does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
((((((shrinking violet))))))) It is good to hear from you, even if you are sad right now.
I think I will always miss my T, at least when I stop being mad at him.
Posted by Estella on May 21, 2006, at 5:11:08
In reply to does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
hey. i think 10 is right. it fades. it will probably always be there a little... but it fades. did you ever lose a pet or something? probably a similar thing...
i still miss my t.
its been... over 4 years.
but i still miss her.
not intensely anymore
but i still cry a bit when i feel lonely
and i think of her
and wish she was still around.
but mostly when i remember her i feel good.
just sometimes it hurts.
not as much as it used to.
but sometimes.
Posted by Jost on May 24, 2006, at 18:46:50
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away..... » shrinking violet, posted by Estella on May 21, 2006, at 5:11:08
Shrinking Violet, but I'm pretty confident that the pain and sense of intense loss will diminish greatly in time.
You may feel sadness about what happened, but it won't be a sadness that is immediate. Other experiences will become more important, and other relationships will engage your energy, your thoughts.
There's a lot to look forward to.
Jost
Posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:38:03
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away..... » shrinking violet, posted by 10derHeart on May 18, 2006, at 22:14:10
Thanks for your kind words. :-)It's been a year since I left my T......True, the pain isn't as bad in comparison, but back then I was completely devastated and felt like I was in a million pieces already before I even lost her, so I'm not sure if that particular pain has gotten better or if it's some of the other stuff around it that has improved. I'm just tired of thinking of her every day, missing her, wondering if she ever thinks of me, wondering if I'm stupid to hold onto hope that I'll ever see her again (etcetera etcetera). Thankfully, while my current T is very good in a lot of ways, there's no attachment there whatsoever and I cannot imagine feeling anything more for her than I do now (that of respect for her and open to her trying to help me). She is very different from my former T in some ways, and while I think that can be a good thing, it doesnt make the pain any less.
And, no, I don't believe much of what you offered, at least for my situation, but I can hope you are right and be grateful for your words.
Thank you,
sv> I'm so sorry you still sound so sad, sv.
>
> But I'm very glad to see your name here.
>
> I think of you and wonder how you are sometimes.
>
> I think it can fade gently away in time. I still miss my former T and it's been nearly 2 years, but the pain is tucked away and it's not so bad now. My current T. made a world of differnce, but of course, now I am very attached to him...<sigh> It's all hard, isn't it?
>
> And my situation isn't the same, 'cause we've been in email contact and things ended well. So it's not fair for me to compare, I suppose...but I still believe when you find the right path for other things in your life, then that precious relationship can fall into a special place, one that can ache from time to time, but in a bittersweet way that's quite bearable.
>
> And I don't blame you if you don't believe a word....(((((((SV))))))))
Posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:40:54
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away..... » shrinking violet, posted by orchid on May 18, 2006, at 22:36:13
That's very sweet, thank you orchid. I think my former T tried....Was she perfect? No, of course not. I think she made some faulty judgements, but I know she tried her best and didn't intentionally hurt me. I also think she put herself first a lot of the time (also with the prompt termination), but maybe I pushed her to it. I just hope someday I can feel better about this, get some closure with her, get some answers. I fear I never will, more than anything else.
Thanks again,
sv> Hi SV
> Nice to see you around here... I had been thinking of you every now and then.
>
> Yes it is very hard... I won't say it will get better, .. It is rotten, and I am only sorry you are going through the pain which you didn't deserve. You are a good person, and for whatever reason your T did this to you, you don't deserve it. Maybe she is n't as good as you thought her to be. No good T or person will leave a patient to hurt like this no matter what the reason is. You deserve better.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:42:39
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away..... » shrinking violet, posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 23:19:39
Thank you Daisy. I hope so too, in terms of closure. I'm not sure anyone else can fill what she took, though; it was pretty special and very unique. Maybe that's what makes it so hard?
Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts, I appreciate it.
sv> I'm sad for you. I can't answer your question but I have to believe that time fades the major losses and though it will ache, it won't burn anymore. I wish there was a way for you to have closure. Mostly I wish you could find what you found with her in a special someone who would fill that hole in your heart.
>
> Hugs from me,
> Daisy
Posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:45:09
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by happyflower on May 19, 2006, at 21:11:52
I'm sorry you're having a hard time too ((((((((((((((Happyflower)))))))))))) Actually, what you said does resonate with me as part of me is very angry with my T. I still miss her, I still send her very warm letters and cards, but sometimes I also feel a deep anger toward her for what she has caused me. Maybe I need to tell her that, too.
Thanks, and take care.
sv
> ((((((shrinking violet))))))) It is good to hear from you, even if you are sad right now.
> I think I will always miss my T, at least when I stop being mad at him.
Posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:45:56
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away..... » shrinking violet, posted by Estella on May 21, 2006, at 5:11:08
Posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:47:22
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by Jost on May 24, 2006, at 18:46:50
Thanks. I hope you're right, but truthfully I'm not sure that will be true for me. My relationship with her was so unique and special (at least to me, but I think to her too), and the whole situation and ending so turbulent and open-ended that I'm not sure it'll ever feel comfortable to me.
Thank you for your encouragement.
sv> Shrinking Violet, but I'm pretty confident that the pain and sense of intense loss will diminish greatly in time.
>
> You may feel sadness about what happened, but it won't be a sadness that is immediate. Other experiences will become more important, and other relationships will engage your energy, your thoughts.
>
> There's a lot to look forward to.
>
> Jost
>
>
>
>
Posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:50:49
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by B2chica on May 19, 2006, at 9:03:55
(....sorry, I seem to have mistakenly erased the previous response to you, so here it is again)
Posted by Jost on May 24, 2006, at 21:44:56
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away..... » Jost, posted by shrinking violet on May 24, 2006, at 19:47:22
Shrinking Violet, no one can say, for sure--of course.
I had an ending with a therapist that was extremely turbulent-- I was very angry, hurt, confused, self-blaming, defensive, critical, sad. I felt abandoned,and badly treated, but also questioned what I had done to evoke his reactions.
I saw a number of "okay" (to me) therapists for awhile, without settling down. Then, an acquaintance recommended another therapist, who was very sensitive and caring, and deep. That helped with everything over time.
Probably you can't separate "everything" from the loss and regret and other feelings about your old therapist. If the new therapist has helped with "everything," those feelings are part of it.
Hold onto the feelings as long as you need them, but maybe, someday, you'll realize you haven't felt them for a while--and it's all right.
Jost
Posted by cecilia on May 26, 2006, at 1:54:29
In reply to does the pain of losing a T ever go away....., posted by shrinking violet on May 18, 2006, at 21:30:56
I don't know. It's been nearly nine years for me and it still hurts. The missing her is pretty much gone though, now it's mostly just anger, at her, and at myself for ever believing she cared. Cecilia
Posted by susan47 on May 26, 2006, at 14:17:17
In reply to Re: does the pain of losing a T ever go away..... » shrinking violet, posted by Daisym on May 18, 2006, at 23:19:39
...maybe nothing. Depending on your point of view. But, imo ... the practice of therapy is unethical as long as it continues to ignore the fact that a client has to be seen as a client not a patient and the therapist can't just terminate without understanding his or her responsibility in that and there absolutely, one day hopefully sooner than later, has to be written guidelines in termination. Like, easing the client in with another therapist, attending three-way sessions a few times, otherwise this profession's going to end up hurting a lot more people. Period .. unless I'm wrong, of course. But not from this seat, not from this perspective. No. Not wrong.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 26, 2006, at 14:26:28
In reply to Anger here, maybe a trigger, maybe dissension, posted by susan47 on May 26, 2006, at 14:17:17
Many therapists use the term patient as much as client. Some use them interchangeably, and sometimes it depends on the setting.
APA's ethical guidelines state that a therapist cannot abandon a client/patient. Thus, the types of transitions you describe can be part of the termination/transfer process. There is also a great deal of literature about termination in textbooks and scholarly journals. Of course this does not make the process fool-proof. And I would agree that many T's do not give adequate attention to the termination process for a number of reasons.
But what you state should happen is already in place.
gg
Posted by susan47 on May 26, 2006, at 14:35:15
In reply to Re: Anger here, maybe a trigger, maybe dissension » susan47, posted by gardenergirl on May 26, 2006, at 14:26:28
And so when a patient is abandoned ...?
Posted by susan47 on May 28, 2006, at 2:09:28
In reply to Re: Anger here, maybe a trigger, maybe dissension » susan47, posted by gardenergirl on May 26, 2006, at 14:26:28
> Many therapists use the term patient as much as client. Some use them interchangeably, and sometimes it depends on the setting.
>
> APA's ethical guidelines state that a therapist cannot abandon a client/patient.So what happens when a therapist does abandon a patient, gg? I mean, it obviously happens. I know. And no matter what the ethical guidelines are, it is then too late and an unwitting, innocent person has been hurt. The guidelines as they stand do not stop it from happening. Because they're obviously not strict enough. They obviously need changing to something more concrete, more adequate to meet the needs and rights of everyone in the therapy relationship. Because it IS a relationship. It CANNOT be abandoned. And it happens, more than it should. And people, therapists and patients, imo im humble o, should have to HAVE to sign an agreement that this will not happen and the therapist would do everything in his or her power to assure a transition that is as smooth and trauma-less as possible, under the circumstances. But first, perhaps, there should be a review by an independently chosen physician of some type, perhaps a psychiatrist, someone who actually has more knowledge than either of the two parties, who can intervene and try and make it right, somehow, first. Because it could happen that way, it could be a hell of a much more enlightened process than it is right now.
Posted by cecilia on May 29, 2006, at 3:30:57
In reply to Re: Anger here, maybe a trigger, maybe dissension » gardenergirl, posted by susan47 on May 28, 2006, at 2:09:28
The trouble is, it doesn't matter how many guidelines there are, there are a hundred ways to abandon a patient if a t wants to do so. My ex-T's method-use her knowledge of me to say something hurtful enough that she knew it would make me quit. We pay them, but they're the ones with the power. Cecilia
Posted by susan47 on May 29, 2006, at 22:51:54
In reply to Re: Anger here, maybe a trigger, maybe dissension, posted by cecilia on May 29, 2006, at 3:30:57
I have been reading a book lately and I realize as I'm reading that I fit right smack-dab into the definition of a person who has, at the least, borderline tendencies.
I can't deny it, I can't ignore it, it is there staring me in the face. I don't know why or how or when this was created in me, but it definitely was there.
Now I have a serious question for anyone who's reading.
Where to next?
Is it possible for someone to recognize that they have these disabling features, and overcome that?
To no longer have it be a part of a life.
My life.
To be well, to be whole, and strong, complete in being a giving, kind, loving and gentle person. Someone like my therapist was to me. He was more civil than I ever was. He was kind, and insightful, and he tried so very very hard to be the model of everything good that a therapist could be.
I abused this so much. I didn't understand who or what I was, what was going on inside me that created such monstrous things, things I didn't and don't understand, things which I truly want to understand. Sometimes, it's better to let it be. But sometimes there can be a vision so strong, so large, that it overcomes all obstacles.
I believe that.
I have to believe that.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2006, at 2:00:23
In reply to Re: Anger here, maybe a trigger, maybe dissension » gardenergirl, posted by susan47 on May 28, 2006, at 2:09:28
>
> So what happens when a therapist does abandon a patient, gg? I mean, it obviously happens. I know. And no matter what the ethical guidelines are, it is then too late and an unwitting, innocent person has been hurt. The guidelines as they stand do not stop it from happening.Of course not. No guideline can do that. No law can do that. But there are recourses for those who truly have been abandoned. For example, they can complain to the professional board or professional organization. They can work through their feelings with another T or here. No profession is perfect and no profession is made up entirely of perfect people.
> And it happens, more than it should.
It never "should" happen. But I'd like to point out that feeling abandoned is not necessarily the same thing as being abandoned.
>But first, perhaps, there should be a review by an independently chosen physician of some type, perhaps a psychiatrist, someone who actually has more knowledge than either of the two parties, who can intervene and try and make it right, somehow, first.
Actually, a physician and perhaps even a psychiatrist would have less knowledge about the unique therapy relationship than those within that relationship. Psychiatrists have been trained in psychotherapy, but they usually have less training in this than clinical psychologists graduating at the same time. And while such an idea might have a beneficial effect on a small number of therapy terminations which are not mutually agreed upon, I don't believe it's practical nor do I think it would be effective in achieving what I think you are looking for.
>Because it could happen that way, it could be a hell of a much more enlightened process than it is right now.
Of course your own experiene is most meaningful and relevant to you, but I do not think that it is necessarily representative of how therapy ends in a majority of cases.
I'm sorry that yours ended badly.
gg
Posted by cecilia on June 2, 2006, at 3:51:02
In reply to Re: Anger here, maybe a trigger, maybe dissension » susan47, posted by gardenergirl on June 2, 2006, at 2:00:23
Re: feeling abandoned not being the same as being abandoned. Technically yes. But once a t abandons a client emotionally, it's over. The t can keep collecting her money or she can say something to make the client quit, the choice is hers. I think bad endings happen a lot. Maybe once in a blue moon therapy happens like in the books, with the client "working through" her issues and terminating amicably. I think it happens a lot more often in the mind of the t than in real life. (And of course when it doesn't happen, the t just blames the client. The t just goes merrily on with her life, rarely giving a thought to the person she hurt so
much.) Cecilia
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