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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 17:43:18
I miss you so much and I am worried about you, please come out and just say Hi, okay? ((((((((((((((((((((((((Tamar)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Posted by Tamar on May 24, 2006, at 18:43:58
In reply to Tamar where are you?????????????????????????, posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 17:43:18
> I miss you so much and I am worried about you, please come out and just say Hi, okay? ((((((((((((((((((((((((Tamar)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thanks for thinking of me Happyflower. I've been avoiding the computer for nearly a month. Life is hard here, and I'm crap at communicating when I'm really depressed... And from what I've just read you're having a tough time too. (((((Happyflower)))))
Tomorrow is my evil anniversary. It is now 18 years since those guys raped me. Half my life. When I look back I realise I was just a kid really. I thought I was so grown-up but I was still at school. I’ve spent half my life wishing it would just go away, but I know now that it won’t. I need to find ways to live with it.
And I fell out with one of my closest friends, and my husband is a dork and my therapist is resisting my attempts to turn him into my father and the prozac has taken away all my sexual impulse and I've put on 20 pounds in three months and now my H-cup bra is too small and I need a J....
Sorry for the pity party.
By the way, I just read about your therapist and his lack of response to your calls, and it occurred to me that perhaps he's ethically prohibited from calling you. I imagine (though I don't know for sure) that therapists aren't allowed to try to contact clients who have quit therapy, because of course the therapist stands to gain financially if you return to therapy. And also, from a theoretical perspective, if he called you it might encourage you to believe that he could solve your problems, whereas in fact he can only help you find ways to solve them for yourself. So that might explain his lack of response.
I find it hard to believe that he doesn't care about you; after all, you're a lovely person and all right-thinking people should care about you. But you did mention something about tightening the boundaries, and I think you might be onto something there. Maybe he realises he let the boundaries slip a little too far. I'm all for encouraging flexibility with boundaries, but there needs to be a great deal of honesty from both sides, and I suspect he was enjoying your company without admitting to himself what he was getting out of it. And at the same time it was very hard for you to talk to him about your desires for a social relationship. And then you did talk to him about it and he said he wouldn’t do it, but somehow I got the impression it wasn’t entirely resolved (maybe I’m wrong about that… only you can know).
I happen to think that a mutual attraction in therapy can be very helpful for the therapy process and it can take you to places you couldn’t reach if there were no attraction. But it’s also very painful because neither of you can give each other the love you want to express. If he’s a good therapist, he should be able to accept and value your love for him without taking advantage of you, and help you to find fulfilling love in other areas of your life. And that’s gotta be hard for him if he’s attracted to you. But the best way for him to express his love for you is by prioritising your therapy above his wishes for a more social relationship. And I guess that means keeping the boundaries in place and not calling you when you’ve quit.
I know what I’m saying is rather counter-intuitive. It must feel as if he doesn’t care about you. But actually I think that by not calling he’s showing that he cares about you enough to respect your point of view and your feelings and your integrity as a person.
I’m sure if you decide you want to work with him again he’d be delighted to take you back as a client. But that’s up to you. The only thing I’d say is: by all means give up on him if you think it’s necessary. Just don’t give up on yourself.
Love,
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on May 24, 2006, at 19:07:46
In reply to Tamar where are you?????????????????????????, posted by happyflower on May 23, 2006, at 17:43:18
Sorry... just saw your post that your T called. I'm glad he did that. If you need him, see him; that's my advice. And I do think you need him. I hope you manage to work things out with him. You haven't lost face with this; you've simply indicated that things are especially hard for you right now and you need his support. I hope he gives you what you need.
Posted by happyflower on May 24, 2006, at 20:18:59
In reply to Re: Tamar where are you????????????????????????? » happyflower, posted by Tamar on May 24, 2006, at 18:43:58
Hi Tamar,
I am so glad to hear from you . Somebody said that you were in a minor car accident and i haven't seen you posting, so I as worried.Well I must knew something was up with you. I don't know all that happened to you 18 years ago, but it must have been terrible. I know something like that changes a person.
You might not think you are communitcating well, but you sure have helped me . I really appreciate your logic you bring to Babble. I really do miss you when you are not around.I did tell my T I would come in next week as scheduled and I told him a little about what is going on with me on his voice mail. The worst part is the nightmares again. I don't do well with very little sleep.
I am sure my T was confident that I would come back since i have done this like 3 times before. He has always called then, but I guess he is playing Mr. Tough T now. I think you are right he is seeing that his boundries have been blurred too much lately. I even had to tell him to quit telling me personal stuff because it made me want to talk to him about his stuff outside of therapy.
Well I am sure he doesn't want any personal relationship with me now, not how I have acted lately. He must think I am some kind of pscho or something.
Well I need to try to get to bed, I am so tired. Keep in touch, Tamar and post as much as you need to tomorrow. I will thinking of you .
Hugs,
Happyflower
Posted by orchid on May 24, 2006, at 23:11:26
In reply to Re: Tamar where are you????????????????????????? » happyflower, posted by Tamar on May 24, 2006, at 18:43:58
nice to hear from ya - and little sad to hear you are feeling bad. I hope your T is helping you and prayers for you for tomorrow.
I think you have come to the right conclusion - that it will not ever become completely ok (the rape I mean), but just that you have to accept that you are living with it and make the most of it.
Posted by orchid on May 25, 2006, at 13:48:16
In reply to Always a pleasure to read your posts :-) » Tamar, posted by orchid on May 24, 2006, at 23:11:26
Hi Tamar,
Also I thought of one more thing today about you. I have noticed that you do better when you participate more actively in babble. Even if you don't talk much about your issues here, I think it does good to your self esteem when you offer help to others here.Since you are saying you have put on 20 lbs in the past month when you have been away from babble, maybe you should participate more in babble, and maybe that will really help you. (of course in addition to helping others here by your wise words). We help ourselves when we help others - in an indirect way. Even if babble is too much for you to handle, atleast try some other form of voluntary work or social work.
I know you have a tendency to withdraw when you are hurting, but that habit is making it worse for you I feel. Maybe you should make more conscious attempt to reach out, and that will help.
Just my thought.
Posted by Tamar on May 25, 2006, at 19:31:39
In reply to Also Tamar, posted by orchid on May 25, 2006, at 13:48:16
Hi Orchid
I know that you are right: I am better when I participate more. And not just in Babble but in other friendships and social activities as well.
I’m not sure whether the lack of involvement leads me to become more depressed or (as I suspect) whether being more depressed causes me to withdraw from involvement with people.
One of the difficulties I’ve been having recently is that I had a big argument with one of my best friends about a month ago. I haven’t spoken to her since, and at the same time I’ve found it hard to speak to any of my other friends, IRL and at Babble and everywhere really. I’m not angry at her, but I’m afraid that she (or anyone else) might hurt me very badly. I don’t think she realises I’m avoiding her; she’s very busy and has called me a couple of times and left a message, but she knows I’m crap at returning phone calls. I hope she doesn’t realise I’m avoiding her, but she has no reason to suspect that I might be. I guess I worry that if she could hurt me (and she knows me very well), maybe other people could hurt me too.
After the argument I cut myself quite a bit… more than before. And I realised that she didn’t mean to hurt me, but that I over-react and feel terribly hurt at things that are really quite trivial. But because I find it so difficult to control the impulse to hurt myself, it’s easier for me to close myself down and to avoid human contact. It’s silly, really; and irrational. But I often feel overwhelmed by contact with people when I’m depressed.
I don’t want to withdraw, but I feel so unsafe and so out of control. I never know how I’m going to react to anything, and I’m trying so hard not to cut myself. Some of the cuts from last month still haven’t healed. And my therapist is so distant at the moment… Well, that’s a whole other topic!
Thanks for your thoughts!
Tamar
Posted by orchid on May 25, 2006, at 21:48:42
In reply to Re: Also Tamar » orchid, posted by Tamar on May 25, 2006, at 19:31:39
> Hi Orchid
>
> I know that you are right: I am better when I participate more. And not just in Babble but in other friendships and social activities as well.
>
> I’m not sure whether the lack of involvement leads me to become more depressed or (as I suspect) whether being more depressed causes me to withdraw from involvement with people.
-------Orchid
I think it is a vicious cycle. When you get little depressed, you avoid friends and other social interactions, and that leads to little more depression, and that leads to more avoidance, and the cycle goes on and on.However, if you break the cycle early on, that is, as soon as you find yourself withdrawing, if you make the effort to just break it, then the cycle would stop there.
I have the same tendency in a different form. When I get depressed, I stop watching comedy shows and fun shows and choose serious movies and shows, and that leads me to more depression. So nowadays, I make a conscious effort to keep watching the comedy shows like Jerry Seinfield, even if I don't feel like it on a particular week or day.
------------------
>
> One of the difficulties I’ve been having recently is that I had a big argument with one of my best friends about a month ago. I haven’t spoken to her since, and at the same time I’ve found it hard to speak to any of my other friends, IRL and at Babble and everywhere really. I’m not angry at her, but I’m afraid that she (or anyone else) might hurt me very badly. I don’t think she realises I’m avoiding her; she’s very busy and has called me a couple of times and left a message, but she knows I’m crap at returning phone calls. I hope she doesn’t realise I’m avoiding her, but she has no reason to suspect that I might be. I guess I worry that if she could hurt me (and she knows me very well), maybe other people could hurt me too.
>
> After the argument I cut myself quite a bit… more than before. And I realised that she didn’t mean to hurt me, but that I over-react and feel terribly hurt at things that are really quite trivial. But because I find it so difficult to control the impulse to hurt myself, it’s easier for me to close myself down and to avoid human contact. It’s silly, really; and irrational. But I often feel overwhelmed by contact with people when I’m depressed.
>
> I don’t want to withdraw, but I feel so unsafe and so out of control. I never know how I’m going to react to anything, and I’m trying so hard not to cut myself. Some of the cuts from last month still haven’t healed. And my therapist is so distant at the moment… Well, that’s a whole other topic!
>
> Thanks for your thoughts!
>
> Tamar
>
>
---------------Orchid
Truth is, it is not guaranteed in this world that no one will hurt us. Everyone will - at some point or the other whether voluntarily or involuntarily (like by dying etc). That is how God made this world. So, if we become prone to too much of hurting ourselves when others hurt us, then that becomes a never ending issue. Isn't that why people who get abused suffer for lifelong while the abusers lead a happy life? People who get hurt by others end up magnifying their hurt by hurting themselves. And the reality is, it is only misdirected anger. Depression is nothing but misdirected anger. As soon as you realize that the anger belongs to the person who hurts you, and you call them names and vent out your anger ONTO them, you will feel better about yourself. (of course with discretion). The key is realizing that the culprit is them, and not you or your body. And taking it out on your body, is doing even more injustice to yourself. The way I thought of it was, if God would not like me inflicting pain on another human being, he certainly wouldn't like it even more me inflicting pain on the body and mind that He gave in the care of myself. Your body and your mind are just as worthy of being not hurt as anyone else on this planet is. As you wouldn't throw a stone or cut a dog, you shouldn't cut your body which God gave you to take care of too.I know it is hard, but there are certain things which we have to stop ourselves from doing, by taking control of it from our mind. Even if our emotions cry for it, it is a good idea to say a strict no to self hurting, and find some other way to let the anger out. You can even buy a punching bag and punch it. Or write journals. Or walk till you get tired. Whatever which you can do, but without hurting yourself will be justified.
Another thing that might help is, everytime you feel the intense desire to cut - postpone it for just 10 minutes, write a post in babble, and then wait till someone responds to you. And then if you wish, you cut (only initially till you practice). And then slowly increase the length of time - wait 20 mins, wait 30 mins etc. Or just simply set aside a time of day (like you will cut only in one set aside half hour in a day - like 11:00 am to 11:15 am) and if you have the urge to cut yourself in the other times, then force yourself to wait till you reach the next day that time. It is just like an addiction, and can be dealt with.
---Hugs to you
Orchid.
Posted by happyflower on May 25, 2006, at 22:24:59
In reply to Re: Also Tamar » orchid, posted by Tamar on May 25, 2006, at 19:31:39
I hope you are okay today and taking care of yourself. I am thinking of you and sending you some strength and hugs .
Posted by 10derHeart on May 26, 2006, at 16:13:39
In reply to Re: Also Tamar » orchid, posted by Tamar on May 25, 2006, at 19:31:39
I'm so sorry. I wish I could say or do somethng to help. You sound so scared and sad. Just try to recall the times you were better and know they *will* return. I know that may not help much in the minute-to-minute world of depression, but I'd like to keep reminding you anyway, 'kay?
Maybe that Prozac needs a tweak, or something else would be better....? But I can imagine even the thought of calling the pdoc/GP to talk about med changes can feel overwhelming at times like this....<sigh> it's such a da*ned, unfair vicious cycle!
We are thinking of you always. Your post to HF was *amazing*, as usual! You bring so much to this place. Do try to let that T. know how badly you're feeling, if you possibly can. He needs to help you, not be distant...IMO...I know, I'm presuming a lot, but..... Love, 10der
PS - hope the trigger warning is okay...I thought someone might be blindsided by the references to SI....((Tamar)) - I'm praying for rapid healing for you in every sense of the word.
PPS - Don't let the b*st**ds win!!
Posted by Dinah on May 26, 2006, at 16:24:17
In reply to Re: Tamar where are you????????????????????????? » happyflower, posted by Tamar on May 24, 2006, at 18:43:58
Posted by Tamar on May 27, 2006, at 5:09:48
In reply to (((Tamar))) **SI trigger above** » Tamar, posted by 10derHeart on May 26, 2006, at 16:13:39
Thanks 10der, and thanks also for putting in the trigger warning. I’m sorry that I forgot to… I think when I posted I kind of forgot that it was public and that people other than HF could read it… Must get a better grip on reality!
Thanks for your kind words. I’ve talked to the doc about the Prozac and she wants to leave it as it is for a little while longer. I can’t increase the dose because I’m already on the maximum. And yeah, I will not let the b*st**ds win!
Posted by muffled on May 31, 2006, at 14:32:28
In reply to Re: (((Tamar))) **SI trigger above**, posted by Tamar on May 27, 2006, at 5:09:48
Hey Tamar, sorry you hurting. bout the si. For me , sometimes just obsessing and looking at the fresher ones is enough for me. Then I don't have to do more.
Do you know what the prinipal driving force behind your si is? or is it diff. at diff. times?
Hope things improve for you. Celexa made my si way worse. I seem to mostly be doing ok on zoloft.
I been tired alot lately, must have some weird virus.
Take care eh,
Muffled
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