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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by OzLand on July 18, 2007, at 19:47:12
When I went to therapy today, we talked about my work situation that had side tracked us from continuing to work on abuse issues. The work issues appears to be resolved without anyone even saying anything to me, but I was warned that would likely be the case.
Anyway, my therapist starts talking about long rang planning for even when I retire some day and how that will help me have a better sense of my worth and value. I guess I got the funny look on my face of kind of annoyance as he asked what just happened here, and so I told him it felt like he was trying to tell me how to run my life in the future. He didn't say anymore about it until toward the end of the session after we spent some time on my husband too. Then zap.
My therapist says to me that I have trouble with authority, and I said I do sometimes. So, he started to liken the whole thing to the sexual abuse when I was younger, but I did not get the connection until he said that with him and what he said about widdening my thinking about work, etc was for me as if he had "inserted" himself in me, and that is why it like the abuse. How dense am I that I did not make the connection, but then I started to think about it and where we had left off and what I had last said about leaving the little girl behind for so long, etc. So he says he thinks we need to revist her, etc.
Well I was making faces which is my way of expressing what I think of what he is saying, and he said, "God; you've got great faces." And he was laughing, and I said "you make great faces too," and he said, "I know." He does. And then he said, "I love the faces you make. So how does that fit with "I welcome working with you." I forgot to ask him about that.
Well after I left and went to use the restroom, I started to get a horrible lump in my throat and just wanted to vomit like I used to sometimes. I was thinking about what he said with "inserting" himself. Now I am not so sure I can handle this. I guess I can; I just need to tell him what effect that had on me. I don't want to develop an eating disordr again even though I am now overweight and just hate it.
Posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:33:03
In reply to The too good T is too smart too; darn, posted by OzLand on July 18, 2007, at 19:47:12
Sounds like a hard session but with lots of threads. I think he made a wise connection for you.
I often have fall out after sessions, feeling sick is a common one. But talk about it for sure, you certainly don't want to slide back into an eating disorder.
Isn't it amazing how many things connect back to early abuse? I find it fascinating, frustrating and infuriating.
Posted by OzLand on July 18, 2007, at 20:39:33
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn » OzLand, posted by DAisym on July 18, 2007, at 20:33:03
Funny; we are babbling at the same time on pretty much the same issue!!
Posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 22:42:10
In reply to The too good T is too smart too; darn, posted by OzLand on July 18, 2007, at 19:47:12
Would you mind explaining this again; I didn't quite get it, and it's important to me because I have tons of trouble with authority figures. Was it that he was telling you what do to in thinking of your future, and that felt like an authority figure imposing himself on you?
Is it OK to ask?
antigua
Posted by muffled on July 18, 2007, at 22:43:02
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn, posted by OzLand on July 18, 2007, at 20:39:33
Posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 0:54:18
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn » OzLand, posted by antigua3 on July 18, 2007, at 22:42:10
Of course you can ask. I have really just started to work with my new therapist on csa issues. We got side tracked by some work issues that came up. Today he talked about some possibilities I could consider for the future in terms of work and even retirement so I am not on poor street.
Well it felt to me like he was trying to impose on me or tell me how I should plan my life for the future. I started to tune him out, and he took note of this. It really was a misperception on my part, but I tend to fall into thinking people in authority are going to try to tell me what to do and run my life. So, later he likened it to my csa, and I did not understand what he meant. He said there is a link, and he used a term that can be defined in more than one way but that makes the point. He said it seemed that I felt he was inserting himself or part of himself in me. The picture right away for me was of either oral or vaginal insertion of a penis. I had never thought of it that way, that when a man in particular seems to be trying to tell me what to do, I was being triggered without even realizing the link or connection with csa.
I guess now that I am conscious of it, it will not be so easy to distort. I am not sure how I will react. Part of me wants to cry now, and part of me wants to beat him to a pulp. I don't know if that makes sense. I don't like it that there is a connection between the two, but there it is. I will always be asking myself now when I start to feel some authority figure (male) is trying to tell me what to do (i.e. in a sense forcing himself on me--his view), I will forever have to question my perception and is it really something else that causes me to be so upset, not the person right there right now. The use of the term "insertion" could not have been more powerful.
Posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 0:56:00
In reply to Mebbe CSA graphic TRIGGER above.... (nm), posted by muffled on July 18, 2007, at 22:43:02
You are right. Sorry.
Posted by antigua3 on July 19, 2007, at 10:36:09
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn (trigger » antigua3, posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 0:54:18
Thank you, that was helpful as I'm always dealing with this, especially now with my pdoc. It adds a whole new perspective. You've shed s bright light. I've always known that male authority figures have been a problem for me always, and the ways I react (oh I can be so awful; I just told my pdoc the other night you wouldn't believe how much trouble this gave me in college--to the point of being kicked out of class--and not understanding how I was coming across.) I still don't know how I come across, but it's one part anger for sure.
It's difficult because I'm usually a very compatible person and hate to make waves. For me, in part, I challenge them I realize because I want them to take responsibility for things that are wrong (a replacement father thing, I'm sure) and I'll push until they become angry. I thought I was righting injustices, but at the heart of it I guess I'm trying to right my own injustice and lashing out at the wrong people.
I just thought that since my father was such a strict authority that I didn't like to be told what to do, but I didn't relate it specifically to the csa.
so thank you.
But I'm particularly curious about your T's use of the word "insertion." I expect that was deliberate, but check on it. It seems harsh, not in a bad way, but in a very direct way. But it made the connection for you whatever the motive.
(I'm a big word person and I would have had a huge reaction to the word!)Thanks so much. You helped a lot.
antigua
Posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 20:16:57
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn (trigger » OzLand, posted by antigua3 on July 19, 2007, at 10:36:09
I did not ask my therapist if the use of the term "inserting himself in me" was deliberate or not because I know it was deliberate. It was probably the most benign term he could have used for me to be able to resonate with what he was saying. I would have freaked if he had said "forcing himself in me" or shoving, or pushing, etc. If you think about it, actually "inserting" is a more gentle term related to sex and a penis (re adult sex) than are the other terms.
Posted by antigua3 on July 19, 2007, at 20:38:07
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn (trigger » antigua3, posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 20:16:57
You're certainly right. I hope I didn't offend you--I was just wondering if it was deliberate and yes, it seems it was. You are much braver than I am, I wouldn't have been able to handle it anywhere near as well as you did.
best,
antigua
Posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 20:53:46
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn (trigger » OzLand, posted by antigua3 on July 19, 2007, at 20:38:07
Oh my gosh no, you didn't offend me. As for being brave; well I don't see myself that way at all. I have not been in therapy with this doctor for very long, but I was a patient at Menninger's in the early 80's for 2 and 1/2 years plus outpatient treatment for around four years after before I went back to school. Then, I was back in therapy with the same therapist there when I was doing my internship and postdoc training. I had already done a lot of work at Menninger's but did not want to delve deeply into the csa stuff as I was doing better and thought "lets just leave well enough alone." My therapist would say something every once in awhile, and I would say I was fine. I wasn't so dissociative anymore that I did not know what I was doing for long stretches of time, and so I thought I could be okay without going through some damn gut renching expeerience.
Two years ago I crashed and Pandora's box flew open, and well here I am now with a very good therapist after two years with someone who did not know what to do with me and sent me to do ECT that like a dummy I went and did (I stopped it short of what they wanted, thank goodness).
So, brave--I am scared to death. We have only had one session where I said to myself to bite the bullet and just do it and started talking about the first person and first time. Yes, there were four or five different abusers and then other sexual stuff from the time I was 17 to around 25. After the first time, I thought I don't know if I can do this, but he helped me to put myself together before I left the session. I know that the next time we meet, that is where I need to go, back to the sevena and eight year-old little girl. The worst will be going back to the 10-11 year old girl. I am really scared of that.
Nope you did not offend me in the slightest.
Posted by DAisym on July 19, 2007, at 23:06:13
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn (trigger » antigua3, posted by OzLand on July 19, 2007, at 20:53:46
You just have to go slow and let it out as you can. I'm glad you feel safe enough to talk about it.
I said exactly what you wrote in therapy today. I don't feel brave at all, I'm terrified and feel weak and stupid for "still" telling stories. Is this wallowing?
Blah -- it is hard work. Thanks for sharing.
Posted by OzLand on July 20, 2007, at 20:46:14
In reply to Re: The too good T is too smart too; darn (trigger » OzLand, posted by DAisym on July 19, 2007, at 23:06:13
Thanks for your response. I start to get anxious just thinking about going back to therapy and talking about this stuff. I emailed my therapist who is out of town again so we only met once, but I emailed him that I almost had to make myself vomit after we last met because of how his comments about my feeling like he was trying to tell me what to do with myself was like "inserting" himself in me really restonated with me. I felt all the stuff from before when I was being abused. AGH.
I thought I was going to gag, and so I told him I almost made myself vomit, and he should know I used to do that. I should show him some of the pictures of me when I was in high school even and also for a time after I got married. I look like someone from the concentration camps, at least in high school and for some time later. Now I look like the bloob. But making myself vomit again is not the answer to losing weight.
I am extremely ambivalent about this whole process, and part of me thinks it would be better if I was not working. How do I go to work after a session. The only saving grace is that I take the Metra to the appointment and then to work, and so I have an hour to try to get my sh*t together. Plus, he helps with that toward the end of the session. My T keeps mentioning my ambivalence, and I want to say shut up to him, but I smile and say, "I know." He was glad I finally was able to say to him that I was upset/annoyed/angry with him and actually praised me for it. He knows my last T/pdoc would get angry with me if I expressed any anger. So, I stuffed my anger before, and that used to be fairly common for me.
I guess I am rambling here just like I start to do in therapy, and then I am stopped dead in my tracks with this, "What's going on xxx?" The shrink if being outsmarted by the shrink, and actually I am glad as he would not be able to help me otherwise. My last T I don't think was as smart as me about therapy, but of course he was smarter than me about a lot of things. What I needed was someone who was smarter than me.
Even the ECT doc commented on my intelligence when he said I could lose 30 IQ points and still be smarter than xxx. He named a big name public figure, and so I don't want to say. He was saying this in terms of research on cognitive reserve and ECT and how the smarter one is, the less the loss of IQ points will be noticed by others. What a bunch of crap. I still have wordfinding difficulties and feel sometimes like I am in junior high with my vocabulary. I hate them for what they did to me with the ECT. I was told the nurse would get together my records and send to me (ECT doc said this). Fat chance this will happen. That was three weeks ago.
I asked for my records from the hospital three months ago, and I got the discharge summary done by the resident. I almost freaked; no I did freak as it was so full of errors, and I mean big errors. He said stuff about my history,etc. that is so wrong and so awful, that I wrote to the ECT doc and doc who is head of inpatient treatment. The ECT doc said I can get the discharge summary changed to be accurate if I want, and I never responded as I was going through stuff at work. I think I will tell him I want it changed. I can never recommend that psych unit ever to anyone.
Okay, so I am still rambling. Sorry everyone. I do that when I start to get uptight and nervous which I am at the prospect of therapy next week.
This is the end of the thread.
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