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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
i've got so much to do.
i am so sad.
so very sad.
i miss him
but the "him" i miss is gone
can't have him back
not the same waylittle bird died in the end.
Posted by RealMe on September 3, 2007, at 22:17:28
In reply to tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
Dory
You have me concerned; what is going on?? You are not the little bird. You are much stronger.
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by muffled on September 3, 2007, at 22:30:06
In reply to tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2007, at 7:38:53
In reply to tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
Dory, I care what happens to you.
If you are in extreme distress, please get real life help. The internet is no substitute for real life help.
I really think that your therapist is committed to staying with you, and has every intention of continuing to work with you. He's told you you can call him if you need to, and that he will respond. Only calling back if you ask him to is actually pretty standard therapy practice. My therapist told me that somewhere down the line, and it was never a question of his changing his rules, but rather explaining his standard practice. He said that he knew sometimes people just wanted to touch base by leaving a message, or explain something, and that if I wanted him to call, then ask him to call. You're seeing your therapist differently right now, that's understandable. But it doesn't mean he isn't fundamentally committed to your wellbeing.
If you don't think you can trust this therapist again, there are others.
If you don't feel you can keep yourself safe, please seek help in real life.
Posted by muffled on September 4, 2007, at 9:21:54
In reply to tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
(((Dory)))
I'm not sure what your saying, but please hang in there.
I was just so happy you were posting again.
If your in the sh*tty place that feels so so bad, please hang on, cuz it eventually passes. Just when I am there, I know I don't think right. SEEMS right at the time, but later I realize I was so in the dark and in confusion that I weren't seeing it all correctly.
Always your friend, if not a very consistant person.
Muffled
Posted by Honore on September 4, 2007, at 10:07:51
In reply to tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
Dory, you're strong; and even if you've lost whatever it was that you had with your H, *you* will survive. You have a lot to live for-- you've talked about school and your success this year with your video installation. And there are so many more other things.
Maybe you should read a bio. of Matisse in his later years, when he couldn't get out of bed, and yet continued to work at an amazing speed with amazing facility, and created some of his most remarkable works. There've been many sick, and sickly, and troubled artists, who've created so much-- there's nothing dying or deathly about that, even though they felt a great deal of suffering at times.
So even if the bird died, you didn't die. You may grieve the loss of the bird, but take that experience and make something more profound out of it.
Honore
Posted by B2chica on September 4, 2007, at 10:31:51
In reply to Re: tomorrow is the day... » Dory, posted by Honore on September 4, 2007, at 10:07:51
where are you hon...can you reply?
are you ok?
please post when you can...
Posted by Racer on September 4, 2007, at 22:27:55
In reply to tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
Hi, Dory,
I'm sorry you're in so much pain right now. It comes across loud and clear. Your post sounds as though you're contemplating hurting yourself, and that's painful to see. I hope you're taking steps to keep yourself safe.
I have found that sometimes when I'm in a similar state, it helps to try to figure out just what it is that I want. What can I ask for, which would help me feel better? What is it I need? Is there something someone else can do?
Doesn't that sound simple? It's not -- mostly, I am so deeply depressed that all I can come up with is, "Make it better!" or "Make it go away!" But I can't tell what "it" is, so how can either of those things happen? Lately, I've been trying to remind myself to ask that question to myself: what is it I want? If I don't know that, if I can't articulate that, then I certainly can't ask for it.
(And wouldn't it be nice, once in a while, if you didn't have to ask? If someone else just knew? I've never yet had that happen, though.)
Posted by Dory on September 4, 2007, at 22:52:10
In reply to tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 3, 2007, at 21:52:24
i am still here
i appreciate the concerni saw him today and it wasn't the same. i'm disconnected and he is fallible. i don't feel secure.
i feel scared and alone.
the session was not a complete waste. i just feel differently now.
no illusions of care or concern. It's a business. i pay and he listens.
i was naive and stupid to think otherwise.this little bird has no one who will wrap it tight
no one will hold it gently to keep it safe from itselfi don't know how long i will stay in therapy.
i feel like i am a "treatment failure"
Posted by RealMe on September 4, 2007, at 23:12:50
In reply to Re: tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 4, 2007, at 22:52:10
Dory
Just because you pay for therapy does not mean your therapist doesn't care. For example, I pay and yet I know my therapist cares about what happens to me. He also knows how hard it is to work on things. I wish it were different. What it all boils down to in the end no matter the therapeutic approach is that a therapist helps us learn how to help ourselves and move on with life. Sounds cold, but it doesn't have to be that way. It can be a very warm, intimate, and moving experience. Don't think because you pay, your therpist doesn't care. My therapist does some free therapy, but I pay. And I should since I can afford to pay.
I am not sure what happened with your therapist, and so I may be whistling in the wind. You said you learned he is fallible. Well, yes that is true. We all are no matter what line of work we are in. You are right; he is not perfect. This does not mean he doesn't care and can't help, though.
So how come you feel so disconnnected and alone? Did he say something insenstive? And why would you feel like a treatment failure??? This makes no sense to me as I sure don't see you that way. ((((Dory))))
RealMe
(OzLand)
Posted by muffled on September 4, 2007, at 23:21:09
In reply to Re: tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 4, 2007, at 22:52:10
> i am still here
> i appreciate the concern* Dory we concerned cuz we care.
>
> i saw him today and it wasn't the same. i'm disconnected and he is fallible. i don't feel secure.* I'm not sure wassup w/your T? I have had times of utter disconnection from my T. Usu its cuz I scared and running away.
Its funny how you should say this, cuz i just been going thru a feeling unsafe w/T thing , cuz she fallible...
She sent me an e-mail where she said she is NOT perfect, but we work together, and we learn together.>
> i feel scared and alone.**damn, I hate that alone feeling Dory, not so sure how I get thru it. I can be surrounded by people, but alone...
But it seems to get better from time to time.
>
> the session was not a complete waste. i just feel differently now.
> no illusions of care or concern. It's a business. i pay and he listens.
> i was naive and stupid to think otherwise.**Not naive and stupid, but HOPEFUL, and I think thats a beautiful thing. But now that reality has set in, mebbe you can get down to business in T? Good boundaries can chafe, but they can be an asset in many ways too. And I suspect, as T gets to know you, he can't help but care,us babblers do! Even if he carefully don't show it, I bet he does care.
>
> this little bird has no one who will wrap it tight
> no one will hold it gently to keep it safe from itself**Ya thats the thing that SUCKS. There has been threads on it. How we goto care for our ownselfs and comfort ourownselves, and how it hurts to realize that...Yup it sucks. But it do get better w/time.
Is there any DBT stuff in your area?
>
> i don't know how long i will stay in therapy.
> i feel like i am a "treatment failure"
>
**Ya you gonna have to fight me for that title, but I going back to try again...I think.....
My T says I got anxiety over going back to T she suspects, I said if anxiety=scared sh*tless, then i got anxiety.
Don't give up Dory,
You got alot to offer.
Thanks for posting to us so we could know you was OK.
I'm glad your posting.
There's been lotsa good threads lately that are proly useful for you if you got time to read. You not alone.
You fit right in here.
Take specially good care,
Muffled
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on September 5, 2007, at 9:16:14
In reply to Re: tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 4, 2007, at 22:52:10
Hi dory,
I'm so sorry that you're hurting :( You may feel like a 'treatment' failure. I don't know if that's true, but even if it is, it doesn't make YOU a failure. Maybe this particular treatment has failed you, but there is nothing about you personally that makes treatment hopeless.take good care, keep posting
-Ll
Posted by Dory on September 5, 2007, at 17:13:58
In reply to Re: tomorrow is the day... » Dory, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on September 5, 2007, at 9:16:14
Just very sad. Not a lot else to say.
Didn't go to work today.
i want to hide
i want to just go awayi wanted him to care
didn't expect hugs
just to care
to say something caring
wrap the little bird up tight
keep it safejust wanted him to care
to give a rat's *ss
wanted him to tell me i'm not a bad person
wanted him to see the real me and tell me it was oknow i want nothing from him
i'm not sure why i am going anymoreafter an appt like this last one i would
normally be riddled with guilt and afraid
that he was mad at me. it's a bad, bad sign
that i am not. i haven't changed, it means
i don't care. i have walled myself off.what would be so bad about him actually caring?
what would be so bad about him being gentle?
am i so repulsive that even he cannot express care or tenderness towards me?sad. so very, very sad.
Posted by muffled on September 5, 2007, at 17:29:42
In reply to Re: tomorrow is the day..., posted by Dory on September 5, 2007, at 17:13:58
> Just very sad. Not a lot else to say.
> Didn't go to work today.
> i want to hide
> i want to just go away**yeah, I get like that, sure feels bad. Isolating. My T says thats not always the best thing to do. She says to try my hardest to get 'out there' when I am like that. But its hard.
>
> i wanted him to care
> didn't expect hugs
> just to care
> to say something caring
> wrap the little bird up tight
> keep it safe*Sorry Dory, is there a link to a thread that says what happened to appt? I can't find it?
> just wanted him to care
> to give a rat's *ss
> wanted him to tell me i'm not a bad person
> wanted him to see the real me and tell me it was ok*well....you sure don't seem like a bad person to me IMHO...
I dunno if we see the real you on babble? Do we? You can be the real you here if not. S'ok. If you are the real you, then I think your OK.
>
> now i want nothing from him
> i'm not sure why i am going anymore*I dunno what to say, cuz I not so sure what going on, whether your getting scared and running, or whether his theraputic style just don't work for you, or what?
> after an appt like this last one i would
> normally be riddled with guilt and afraid
> that he was mad at me. it's a bad, bad sign
> that i am not. i haven't changed, it means
> i don't care. i have walled myself off.*Walls can come down, eventually. I'm one to talk, I am queen of walls w/my T, but I getting better.
>
> what would be so bad about him actually caring?
> what would be so bad about him being gentle?
> am i so repulsive that even he cannot express care or tenderness towards me?*well I'm SURE your not repulsive. I used to think I was a leper....but now mostly I don't....
It may just be that your T has strong boundaries...
And caring has its own sh*t to go along with it...
Is your T CBT oriented?> sad. so very, very sad.
>
**Geeze I'm sorry your so sad, but I am glad you are posting, and I hope you can find ways to reach out somehow IRL as well.
Sorry, I am SO busy w/back to school stuff, and I been steering clear of chat for a bit, so I'm glad your posting so I can 'talk' to you.
Kinda missed having you around here.
Muffled
Posted by Dory on September 6, 2007, at 7:11:10
In reply to Thinking of you » Dory, posted by muffled on September 5, 2007, at 17:29:42
> **yeah, I get like that, sure feels bad. Isolating. My T says thats not always the best thing to do. She says to try my hardest to get 'out there' when I am like that. But its hard.
i stayed home from work. i couldn't tolerate people.
> >> *Sorry Dory, is there a link to a thread that says what happened to appt? I can't find it?
i don't know what you mean.. my appt..
is in this thread, the last appt anyway.
Not much of anything happened.
> *well....you sure don't seem like a bad person to me IMHO...
> I dunno if we see the real you on babble? Do we?a lot of the time, yes. i try.
i can't always tell while i am doing it,
putting on a display or persona for
other people is more "natural" than being me
> *I dunno what to say, cuz I not so sure what going on, whether your getting scared and running, or whether his theraputic style just don't work for you, or what?
i don't know. maybe i'm no good for therapy.
all the therapy types list "success rates"
as stats... none are 100%. Maybe i am no good> *Walls can come down, eventually. I'm one to talk, I am queen of walls w/my T, but I getting better.
maybe. i am just so deeply depressed now.
so many hard choices in my life
so much to carry
you know that
people say i can't do it all
but what else can i do?
is there any other choice i don't know about?
you live or you die and this is what my life is> *well I'm SURE your not repulsive. I used to think I was a leper....but now mostly I don't....
> It may just be that your T has strong boundaries...he said again that he would always call
if i say i really want him to
he didn't say he was wrong
or that he was sorry
i wanted that
he did say what he did
was directly against what he promised though
i think he knows he should have
talked to me first> And caring has its own sh*t to go along with it...
i just want tenderness
gentleness
compassion for me, the me in here
i want him to tell me, outloud, that it's ok
is it a boundary not i say "i care about what happens to you?"
a boundary to not say "i'm sorry you feel so bad inside?"
boundary not to tell me he likes me ok, doesn't despise me?i want him to just show me, even once, that i deserve a little gentleness.
He doesn't need to say anything about him really
Can he lean closer and tell me that
he can see i'm hurting?
Can he say that he hears me cry inside?
Can he lower his voice to that soothing tone?
Can he see the little bird that needs to be wrapped and kept safe?can he see through the blank wall? the one
that can't feel or show him?
can't cry when i hit the ground like a stone
can't make a sound while i struggle in agony
gentle hands to pick me uplost lost lost
it's all words and find it yourself
reach out reach out no one will ever reach in
i want him to reach in and touch my hand
let me know that someone on the outside
cares whether i make it outsad. lost. alone.
crying inside. staring into space.> Is your T CBT oriented?
he does schema
there isn't anything anyone can do. Not even T.
What is he there for?
deep depression
huge life issuestrapped and sad.
Posted by muffled on September 6, 2007, at 22:01:50
In reply to Re: Thinking of you, posted by Dory on September 6, 2007, at 7:11:10
maybe. i am just so deeply depressed now.
so many hard choices in my life
so much to carry
you know that
people say i can't do it all
but what else can i do?
is there any other choice i don't know about?
you live or you die and this is what my life is*Well Dory, you got reasons for being depressed, and you are so right, we just soldier on somehow, day after day.
But some days are better. Sometimes things start to look up.
Things can change so drastically for the worse....or the better.
I'm not sure I can quite divine wassup w/you and T other than perhaps you are feeling betrayed by him?
That maybe you smacked into a boundary wall and its really a trigger for you and you hurting?
Do you think you can explain or show some of what you have written to him? There's been some very eloquent writings...
AS for whether a T give a crap bout us, thats an ongoing issue of discussion here on babble. We hash and re-hash that one. The 'neediness' etc.
I think you have hit a hard, rough patch here Dory, but maybe not insurmountable, and in fact, perhaps an excellent opportunity to understand more about yourself. Sometimes the hardest times w/our T's, once they get resolved, are the most trust building, eye opening times...
When we are drowning in the midst of our intensity of emotions, its hard to see cleary, or even think at all sometimes, and I think maybe thats where T's can help sort stuff out for us.
Do you think your meds are correct at this time? Do mebbe they need a tweak? Or is this depression more situational do you think?
I guess the only other thing I can think of to try and help you see potentials of what could be happening in part for you, is that you seem to desprately want very concrete validation from your T, and while T's can be unconditionally accepting, they DO have to be careful, for the clients sake, not to, I dunno, mebbe this is bad phrasing...but kinda 'lead them on' as it were.
And a LOUSY part of T, as many babblers will tell you, is when we realize that the T can't save us :-( BUT, though its dissapointing, they WILL teach us how to save ourselves, accept ourselves, love ourselves, and treat our own selves with dignity , compassion, and respect. We learn to sooth ourselves better when we are hurt. We learn to recognize triggers, and how to stop the 'trigger cascade', as I call it. There is SO much they can teach us, and oftentimes the lesson and realizations are SO hard, and hurt SO much, and we become SO freaked out, and want to run so bad....sigh...T IS COMPLICATED.
So I hope I haven't said anything untoward, I just was hoping for you to be able to maybe understand, thru your fog of depression, that stuff CAN be done, and things improve. Its just sometimes a really, really, hard road at times. AT TIMES. Not ALL the time.
Wish I could magically say the right thing....
Anyhow, I have to run, I'm crazy busy and want to read some babble B4 bed.
Take good care Dory.
Muffled
This is the end of the thread.
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