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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 4, 2008, at 15:27:56
Hi, All: I don't know if this is the proper area for my message, so hope it is okay.
As a student (age 61!), I was able to join the American Counseling Association and attend the convention in Hawaii in March (I made that decision spontaneously--a RARE occurrence).
I was appalled to see that in over 500 presentations, there wasn't ONE on verbal (which is emotional) abuse.
Verbal abuse affects 1 out of every 3 women; staggering statistic!!
I mentioned this, and was urged by the Executive Director of the ACA to submit my paper for next year's convention.
I will find out if it is accepted in August. Anyone who would like a copy, I'd be honored to send one to you.
Hugs, Sassy
P.S. The Title of my Paper: "Society's Best-Kept Secret: Verbal Abuse...The Insidious Epidemic and Precursor to all Physical Violence...Creator of Biochemical Chaos
Posted by Dinah on June 5, 2008, at 10:43:33
In reply to My Verbal Abuse Paper/Excited-Apprehensive, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 4, 2008, at 15:27:56
It's been my observations that a number of men are also the victim of verbal abuse. I can't tell you the number of families I've known socially where verbal abuse of the husband appeared to be present.
Are there any statistics on men?
Good luck with the paper!
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 5, 2008, at 12:09:58
In reply to Re: My Verbal Abuse Paper/Excited-Apprehensive » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2008, at 10:43:33
Hi, Dinah: I've not read any statistics on men who are verbally abused.
I think because society teaches men that they have to be in control; that is part of it.
Thank you for the good thoughts!
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by B2chica on June 5, 2008, at 14:14:20
In reply to My Verbal Abuse Paper/Excited-Apprehensive, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 4, 2008, at 15:27:56
after the conference try to get your school to post it online... you just count the number of hits you'll get, from the conference go-er's, their students, colleagues and US!!!
Great paper!
from someone (of many) who's experienced it i can't believe there's so little written about it.
i truly believe it's what begins into physical abuse,NOT SAYING THAT THAT ALONE IS NOT BAD AT ALL!!! VERBAL IS SOMETIMES WORSE AS THERE"S NO SCARS TO SHOW PEOPLE
as that's how it happened for me. i feel i 'put up' with the verbal cuz "at least he's not punching me", well that beat me down so much that when he started kicking, and pushing me i still thought, "well, at least he isn't punching me".....
b2c.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 5, 2008, at 15:17:02
In reply to Re: My Verbal Abuse Paper/Excited-Apprehensive » sassyfrancesca, posted by B2chica on June 5, 2008, at 14:14:20
> Hey, sweetie: That is a good idea!
after the conference try to get your school to post it online... you just count the number of hits you'll get, from the conference go-er's, their students, colleagues and US!!!
>
> Great paper!Thankyou! Did I send it to you? Must have, LOl, LOL
> from someone (of many) who's experienced it i can't believe there's so little written about it.
> i truly believe it's what begins into physical abuse,yes, verbal abuse is the precursor to ALL physical abuse.
>
> NOT SAYING THAT THAT ALONE IS NOT BAD AT ALL!!! VERBAL IS SOMETIMES WORSE AS THERE"S NO SCARS TO SHOW PEOPLEif you talk to any woman who has been physically AND verbally abused, they will ALL tell you that the verbal is worse (those scars don't disappear); how many of us still remember the ugly things said to us as children?!
My mother told me: "I wish you had never been born." I think that is the worst thing you could ever say to a child.
Hugs, Sassy
>
> as that's how it happened for me. i feel i 'put up' with the verbal cuz "at least he's not punching me", well that beat me down so much that when he started kicking, and pushing me i still thought, "well, at least he isn't punching me".....
>
> b2c.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 5, 2008, at 18:09:02
In reply to Re: b2c:My Verbal Abuse PaperExcited-Apprehensive, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 5, 2008, at 15:17:02
It's so true, and even after childhood is technically "over," words can be devastating and lasting. Most of the damage I think I suffered that eventually contributed to so much depression/anxiety and brought me to therapy, was suffered as a young adult, beginning with my mom's death from cancer, and then a series of unhealthy relationships. In fact, my childhood was awesome, and working with T's, we have never really noticed a connection to anything that happened to me before age 19. But the adult things that were said and done....are *so* clearly connected to present distrust, fear, fragile self-esteem, self-hatred...blah, blah, you all know the list...
An example - in my 2nd marriage, to a man who turned out to be emotionally, physically and verbally abusive, we were arguing one time, and I walked over and put my hand on his shoulder. He said with a cold look and in the iciest tone I'd ever heard, "don't come near me, when you touch me I want to be sick and it feels like you're burning my skin." So what, right? I was an adult and a mom by then, and I was starting to "get" that he was a very disturbed individual. Why not just chalk it up to mean things said during fights?
Probably some could have forgotten it immediately, and later thought, "hah! consider the source." But nope, not me. We're all made differently inside, with different tender points, I think, and we never know when something like this will sink deep in and stay. This remark was made over 20 years ago, and to this day it haunts me. When I get into certain relationships (don't have to be romantic/sexual - any kind), I feel I should be asking the person all the time, "am I making you sick? "Can I hug you...or it is wrong/bad/stupid? I'm not repulsive, am I? Are my emotions making you sick? When are you going to reject me?" Or, I want to apologize - constantly - for everything I say and do around showing my feelings, especially around any touching, just casual even, because if I'm doing it, it MUST be wrong or inappropriate somehow.
It's been so clear in the most recent 3.5 year relationship with my T. (just concluded as I moved away) as I got closer and trusted him more. I remember tapping him on the shoulder once to get his attention, or be funny or something, as we were walking out of his office, and next 2 or more sessions were devoted to picking that tiny gesture apart. Sure, any kind of touching of your T., however tiny and casual, can be highly charged, but this was such obvious transference as I swore I harmed him, us, the relationship, that I was "stupid" "weird" and so forth, all things I'd probably been told over and dover by my ex.
When I was seeing T. still, and even now as we stay in touch by email, I *still" feel I should ask those kinds of questions, and that somehow, some day, I will disgust him, or harm him, or that there is some secret, bad thing I'm *doing* to him by feeling and expressing affection and caring. I really think most all of that stems from this bad marriage so long ago (as well as some other incidents with other men.) He was/is wonderful about reinforcing the opposite "truths" and letting me see closeness and caring can be treasured and appreciated and I am NOT some agent of pain. But it is an incredibly slow process to unlearn this - even if it was inflicted as an adult.
That dumb rhyme, "Sticks and stones....." ought to be changed to:
"Sticks and stones can break my bones,
But words can ALWAYS hurt me! - so DON'T SAY CRUEL THINGS WITHOUT THINKING, DA*&IT!!"Sorry. Ranting. Great thread. Glad you wrote the paper, sassy - it's a really important topic.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 9, 2008, at 12:31:48
In reply to Re: b2c:My Verbal Abuse PaperExcited-Apprehensive, posted by 10derHeart on June 5, 2008, at 18:09:02
Oh, sweetie you never were (and are NOT) the reason or agent for ANYbody's pain.
you are obviously sensitive and wounded and want only be be loved.
I understand; after a childhood of abuse, and 31 years of abusive marriage, that is what I crave, because I never had it.
Those old tapes are so difficult to shut up!!! Even though we know this stuff intellectually, we fight the emotions brought on by other people when they reject us.
Words can "kill" us or lift us up....What a shame 1 in every 3 women are being abused in our society. I am sure you NEVER hurt your t in ANY way, sweetie
Write to me anytime on Babblemail or (wacalice@aol.com)
you are a dear....Love, Sassy
Posted by 10derHeart on June 9, 2008, at 14:10:06
In reply to Re To::(((( (10derHeart))))) Wounds, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 9, 2008, at 12:31:48
Posted by B2chica on June 9, 2008, at 15:36:32
In reply to Re: b2c:My Verbal Abuse PaperExcited-Apprehensive, posted by 10derHeart on June 5, 2008, at 18:09:02
(((((((((10))))))))))
your post made me cry. like i haven't in a while.
because it made me remember with clarity how lucky i am that i got out of that relationship.
i have several phrases like that stuck in my mind.
one that i heard is once when i was wearing shorts and i leaned down to pick something up he (sitting his fat @ss on the couch) said "God your one fat stupid Bitch".... i'll never forget those words.
to this day i HATE wearing shorts. and i HATE bending over when anyone is around. i ALWAYS bend at the knees.
and i still feel like a worthless stupid b@tch.even though i'm not...
i love you 10der.
i love all you girls...(and guys out there too) who have felt this pain.b2c.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 10, 2008, at 10:27:39
In reply to Re: b2c:My Verbal Abuse PaperExcited-Apprehensive » 10derHeart, posted by B2chica on June 9, 2008, at 15:36:32
Remember this: An abuser is an excruciatingly INSECURE, JEALOUS and a mess. They abuse (usually) because THEY were abused, and are taking all of their anger and rage at another person (the person they are supposed to love and care about)
They HATE themselves.
Unfortunately, those of us who have been abused carry around those old tapes/lies, which are dfficult to ignore.
They are manipulative charmers to the outside world (everything says "What a NICE guy)" They fool most everyone (even t's who are not trained in this subject; I experienced that...what a shock!)
You cannot stand up to, nor defend yourself with an abuser; they need their "supply"---a constant defending yourself, explaining, etc.....
Love, Sassy
Posted by B2chica on June 10, 2008, at 10:49:24
In reply to Re: If You Remember Nothing Else About Verbal Abus, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 10, 2008, at 10:27:39
that is the truth. infact my boyfriend was still living with his parents (i was 16 when we met, he was 23 i guess had i been smarter that would have told me something)
but his mother was the verbal abuser. she had a financial hold on him (and his father).its amazing what a mold he fits. the more you talk. the more he fits.
if only i'd had these glasses on then...thanks sassy.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 10, 2008, at 14:53:18
In reply to Re: If You Remember Nothing Else About Verbal Abus » sassyfrancesca, posted by B2chica on June 10, 2008, at 10:49:24
Hi, sweetie! Yes, I know; I wish I had had a clue before I married an abuser (for 31 years!)
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by B2chica on June 10, 2008, at 15:27:06
In reply to Re: B2Chica: About Verbal Abus, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 10, 2008, at 14:53:18
just wanna say thanks Sassy.
i haven't talked about him...well really to anyone. ever. my husband used to go to HighSchool with him so they knew each other, so he knew he was kinda weird and he knew his mom and what she was like so i could make jokes about him and stuff like if my DH would sound overbearing i'd say "well, now you just sound like "xxxx". and we'd laugh.
but my DH doesn't really know how bad it was. i mean i kinda told him but i don't think i REALLy expressed it, nor pushed the subject. mostly cuz my DH thinks he's a dork anyway.
and of course that makes me giggle inside. you know, that i know that my DH thinks very little of the guy and besides my DH could "take him"...hehe. and i laugh, but knowing that really makes me feel secure inside. maybe that's part of why we ended up together?? who knows.but someday i need to open up and tell all to my T about this guy. cuz even though i don't feel it was bad...i mean compared to the rest of what i've been through. i think he caused some of the most scars that i can't shake. ESPECIALLY body image and low self-esteem...course that was there to begin with. considering i met up with him one month after i was r@ped. i figured if that's how guys were going to treat me then ""I" would choose (underline 'I' a hundred times). and i ended up with this "dork" one night. and he clung to me like a fly to sh@t.
well i guess that should be "like a bee to a flower" right?anyway.
i wanted to thank you so much for opening this discussion.
THANKS
b2c.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 11, 2008, at 14:48:47
In reply to Re: B2Chica: About Verbal Abus, posted by B2chica on June 10, 2008, at 15:27:06
Hey, sweetie! You are so welcome! Babble me anytime if you'd like.
I think I might have mentioned that I submitted my verbal abuse paper to the American Counseling Association; i will know in August if they accepted it (and if they do, I will be a presnter in next year's conference)
hugs, Sassy
www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com (a kind of abuse I'd never heard of, until it happened to me!); voted out of a 31-year church membership because of divorcing the !!@@##$$$ abuser of 31 years.
My story was published with the Ph.D's (amazingly, OL): www.psychiatricjournal.com, entitled: The Transcendent Child on Overcoming Verbal and Spiritual Abuse
Posted by B2chica on June 12, 2008, at 10:23:00
In reply to Re: B2Chica: About Verbal Abus, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 11, 2008, at 14:48:47
WOW, and i can't WAIT, it'd BETTER be accepted by ACA!
what a great paper.
first i wanted to include the book you mentioned here at babble using the quotes so that anyone wanting to read about verbal abuse can use your recommendation.
the book is called "the verbally abusive relationship" by Patricia Evans.also to hear from So many people and their poems must have been wonderful...
AND...AND
your ancestor CAPTAIN SAM!!!! WOW! i want him for my relative!!
you DEFINATELY have his fervor and determination, and Survivor instinct...sorry...overcomer!and your very last sentence was SO interesting...i only quit smoking before my DD was born. i've smoked off and on since i was 14/15.
your are SUCH a spirit Sassy. what a Great name for you!
thanks again
b2c.
Posted by ClearSkies on June 12, 2008, at 12:12:52
In reply to My Verbal Abuse Paper/Excited-Apprehensive, posted by sassyfrancesca on June 4, 2008, at 15:27:56
Late to this thread, but I too want to thank you for starting it and to wish you well and give you my support for what you're doing.
I was "only" in an abusive marriage for 18 years and it was very clear to me towards the end, when we were dealing with my father in law's decline, that my ex husband had obviously suffered a great deal by his own father's treatment. It by no means exonerated his behavior but made me so very sad that he instead had chosen to perpetuate the generational story of verbal abuse of spouses and children.
When it came time for me to read that same book, it was most difficult for me. It wasn't that I wanted to deny that any of it had happened, but it just created an enormous sadness and hurt that really hasn't healed properly yet.
I'm now in a much healthier relationship with a caring partner and am constantly surprised that there are men like him out there. Who don't have to wound with words in order to prop themselves up.
Thanks again
ClearSkies
Posted by sassyfrancesca on June 18, 2008, at 14:40:12
In reply to Re: My Verbal Abuse Paper/Excited-Apprehensive » sassyfrancesca, posted by ClearSkies on June 12, 2008, at 12:12:52
Dear ((ClearSkies)): So glad you wrote to me; unfortunately verbally abusive words can stay with one for a lifetime.
I am glad you are in a good relationship. I am envious (after 31 years of abuse), and now alone for 3 years; I haven't found any man, and would like one at least for a friend.
Hugs n Love, Sassy
Posted by 10derHeart on June 18, 2008, at 18:22:30
In reply to Re: b2c:My Verbal Abuse PaperExcited-Apprehensive » 10derHeart, posted by B2chica on June 9, 2008, at 15:36:32
This is the end of the thread.
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