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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lemonaide on July 29, 2008, at 17:47:18
I told him I was sorry for taking out all my anger on him when a lot of it was due to my ex T. He was really good about it. He still tried to say he has a busy schedule, etc. Then I said well I can celled all my appointments with him until Sept, surly he could use one of those. ;-)
He has agreed this has all have gone on too long and he sees how I am frusterated. He is going to call him and see if he can meet in the morning, if he is a morning person. I said, well he gets up at 5:30 makes a cup of mint tea and reads the paper, takes a sh*t, takes a shower and gets dressed, leaves at 9am, arrives at the office at 9:20 and takes the first client at 10am. I then asked him if I should know all of this? Then I told him that I don't want to know when you take a sh*t. He was laughing, because this is me being me of course. I said I won't make an appointment till I know he has a chance to meet with my old T. He said he would call me tomorrow. Good thing is that he can drive now.
Man, what an emotional day. It doesn't help that I took one of those big sleeping pills last night. Keeps me sleepy all day afterwards. Tonight I will take the smaller dose.
So I feel a little better with taking a stand, it got my T's attention for sure. But I am sorry for taking my anger out on his while doing it, he told me I didn't need to leave such a huge apology on his phone machine. Well I felt sorry for what I did and explained it.
Thinking more on my anger, I get like this when I feel like I have no control over anything, like when I was abused. I felt like I couldn't talk to my old T without him talking to current T. What am I a child? I can talk for myself and tell him myself how my therapy is going. Then to wait and wait till my current T sets up an appointment to see my old T. Then after he talks to him, I still might not get to talk to him if my current T thinks it will just hurt me more if my old T is defensive. He maybe really defensive now after I said I was going to talk to my lawyer. I am sure I won't get a truth out of him that might get him in any kind of trouble. So the whole thing might just be a waist of energy now. Thanks to me and my anger.
I really hate that I identify with the results of a child growing up with abuse. I hate that I see myself as one of those people. It is so sad and I am so angry that I have a condition because of what happened to me in the past. Sure it wasn't my fault, but wreak of a life now, is my only life I have, and if you mess up, you are doomed forever. Most people are not forgiving and will ignore you forever, hold judgments, etc. Even if they too, have a mental condition that makes them act in not so perfect ways. So I feel doomed here, and everywhere. I think forgiveness and acceptance is s myth, some do forgive, but a lot do not. I have seen it, I have lived it, everywhere I go.
Posted by Dinah on July 29, 2008, at 18:12:03
In reply to I talked to my T on the phone, posted by Lemonaide on July 29, 2008, at 17:47:18
If any of those books say that your history is your destiny, chuck em in the trash. They shouldn't even be given away, to be read by others.
You're aware that your anger causes you problems now. You have an understanding of the genesis of your anger. Hopefully you can use that understanding to be compassionate towards yourself.
Your anger causes you problems now, but it doesn't have to cause you problems forever. You can work on it with your therapist. You can work on it yourself. I know you don't have a diagnosis of borderline, but it might be worthwhile to invest in "Skills Training Manual for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder" by Marsha Linehan. It's got useful things for everyone regarding emotional regulation.
You know at least some people do forgive and move on. And some people may not. You have no control over that. All you can do is take responsibility for your actions, express regret for the pain you might have caused others, and try to repair things as best as you can. This might mean showing that you are trying to change. People may or may not accept your apology. But at the very least by changing your behavior, you'll reduce the number of people who might have reason not to forgive.
What's past is past. What you do today and tomorrow and the next day is what matters. If you fall short of your goals, that too is past. It's never too late to change.
I'm glad your current therapist understood. He sounds like a good guy, and a good therapist to help you with your anger. I always did think your old therapist distracted and avoided a bit too much.
Posted by raisinb on July 29, 2008, at 23:20:02
In reply to I talked to my T on the phone, posted by Lemonaide on July 29, 2008, at 17:47:18
I'm glad you worked it out with your therapist. It sounds like that was the right thing to do.
And don't feel bad for yelling at him. Therapists are trained to deal with clients' anger, to make it productive. You are angry for good reasons, and you need a safe place and person to process it. Your therapist can be that person. For most of my life I have been a very angry person, too. You should hear the things I've said to my therapist! I yelled at her nonstop for over two years. Including several "f**ck yous". And she seems to have forgiven me. Or at least puts up a good front.
And Dinah is right. You're not doomed, and get rid of those books that tell you you are.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on July 30, 2008, at 7:16:13
In reply to Re: I talked to my T on the phone » Lemonaide, posted by raisinb on July 29, 2008, at 23:20:02
Oh, sweetie: you are NOT doomed.....You had no choices or boundaries as a child.
You DO have choices now. What do you want? How do you want your life to be?
What steps can you take right now (to begin the life you want?)
Hugs n Love, Sassy
In a sense, I am living proof that we are NOT doomed.
Posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2008, at 13:15:31
In reply to Re: I talked to my T on the phone, posted by sassyfrancesca on July 30, 2008, at 7:16:13
Yes you are what was that link again sorry to interrupt thread. Phillipa
Posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 15:14:42
In reply to I talked to my T on the phone, posted by Lemonaide on July 29, 2008, at 17:47:18
He said I was right, my old T didn't want to talk to me since I mentioned seeing my lawyer. But somehow my T talked him into doing this for my benefit. But we are going to do it in my T's office, and my old T will come there, and all 3 of us will meet.
My T wants to meet with me once more about this, and then we will set it up.
I said I am doing this to stand up for myself, for what he did to me. I told my T on the phone that he will probably think I should become a lawyer after all of this. He laughed and said he can see that happening. Then I asked which chair will he be sitting it? lol He said well I don't want to sit in the therapist's seat! lol I said what are you going to do, hide under the desk? He said yeah, that sounds good.
Well I told him I want to do this. He said I think we have beaten this horse long enough. I said yeah, we won't have to talk about it anymore, because the horse will be in the room and I will bring my whip. lol He things I am crazy, but he he knows I am joking. well maybe. lol
I feel better knowing my T will be there, so my old T can't be a total jerk. So I feel safer.
Posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 17:38:58
In reply to My T called me again today, he talked to old T, posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 15:14:42
Is some of you don't know, read the post above, I am meeting with both my T's at my current T's office.
Right now my original intentions have been changed because of the past couple days. Before I wanted to make things nice again so when I see him at the gym, I won't feel so bad.
But now part of me wants to tear him a new *ssh*l*. He hurt me and I want him to know it. But I remember when I talked to my T today on the phone he wanted to make sure that it will be in my best interest. I am not sure if giving him my anger will help us mend the relationship, it will probably make him even more resistant to admitting anything he did was wrong. I want to forgive him, but yet I want him to know what I am forgiving him for. I want him to understand the hurt he caused me.
How do I do this? I will see my T tomorrow to talk about this. Part of me still cares a lot for him (even though I don't feel it) but part of me is angry as hell too. Any suggestions on how i should handle myself during this meeting?
If he denies having a crush on me, should I bring up items 1-10 that prove he is denial? If he denies doing anything to cause me harm, do I bring up examples? Or do I be more general with how he hurt me and work more for forgiving him and coming together so we both feel good?
But there is not "us" anymore, so there is nothing to save really. So should I just why I am angry, why I care about him, and why I care about him is why it hurt so much for what he did to me?
Okay< I am talking in circles. Any ideas on what to do?
Should I start off with first how much he means to me, then explain why he hurt me, then come back to how I want to forgive him for what he did so I can feel good about some of the good that happened between us.
I realize this is a unique situation, but what do you all think? Or should I just go outside and pee on his car? lol
Posted by muffled on July 30, 2008, at 18:07:03
In reply to I have an appointment tomorrow, posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 17:38:58
>Should I start off with first how much he means to me, then explain why he hurt me, then come back to how I want to forgive him for what he did so I can feel good about some of the good that happened between us.
*Ya good start.
Then if he being an *ss, bring up facts if you can stay cool....
Take it slow.
Cuz you don't wanto flip over it right? Mebbe keep a pic of your IRL kids in your pocket to look at to help ground you as needed?
Be careful OK?
You just human like me.
Sigh.
Take care.
M
Posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 18:57:06
In reply to Re: I have an appointment tomorrow, posted by muffled on July 30, 2008, at 18:07:03
> You just human like me.WHAT?????????????? Human, ME???????????? lol just a joke. I think I would rather be a cockroach, they are tough, right?
Thanks, for your imput, muffy, as always, it is good to see you on the boards. I sure need one of those ranting sessions on line like we used to do! Plus I am disappointed you didn't mentioning coming here and peeing on my old T's car. But it is gold, so it might not show. lol
I think this is going to be the toughest thing yet. I can't imagine having both T's in the room together. I am trying to figure out where everyone is going to sit. I want my usual chair. But then it feels weird to have my old T invade my safeplace with my T. But my T will be there, he feels safe to me. At least I hope it stays that way,
Posted by antigua3 on July 30, 2008, at 19:09:34
In reply to Re: I have an appointment tomorrow » muffled, posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 18:57:06
It sounds like you have a good plan. Maybe your T will start the session, set the tone and then let you go. But he will be there to pull you up, to make sure you cover everythng you want to cover. That may mean letting the anger out, but moving on to the closure of the hurt he caused you.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 20:08:39
In reply to Re: I have an appointment tomorrow, posted by antigua3 on July 30, 2008, at 19:09:34
Hey thanks Antiua,
I hope my T tells me more tomorrow. I hope we can get this planned and over with soon.
I am hoping on that day, he will let me see see him for just a moment before we bring old T in, so maybe he can do a calming EMDR session before.
I keep thinking I am really mad and maybe my T might displace some of that tomorrow in EMDR. That anger I have, although justified, probably won't help anything in the long run.
I do plan on telling old T that I don't plan on taking legal action, I was just angry when I said that.
I keep wondering what my T said to have my old T to change his mind about seeing me. I guess I will find out tomorrow. Geeze I should write a book on this saga, if Dr. Bob hasn't started already. What a journey. grrrrrr. ;-)
Posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 20:10:03
In reply to I talked to my T on the phone, posted by Lemonaide on July 29, 2008, at 17:47:18
Do you all see this as being beneficial to me? IT sure seems like a lot of overreactions on my T's part.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on July 31, 2008, at 10:29:05
In reply to Re: I have an appointment tomorrow » antigua3, posted by Lemonaide on July 30, 2008, at 20:08:39
I would let your t direct the conversation---while you are out peeing on his car....LOL,LOL
I think you still like/love him and hate him, too...that is why you are so conflicted.
I would simply tell him the truth...."Restorative Justice"---This is what you did.....this is how it made me feel."
The idea of Restorative Justice is to let the person know how you felt/feel. It has NOTHING to do with their feelings or thoughts.
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by Lemonaide on July 31, 2008, at 16:04:15
In reply to I talked to my T on the phone, posted by Lemonaide on July 29, 2008, at 17:47:18
Well him thinking over everything, he still believes that meeting with my old T will have the very real potential of exploding, and causing more harm than what will be helpful. He believes the risk is just too great for me and all strong feeling I have. He said I have reason to have them, but my old T is very protective of his ego and would likely become defensive. I have to admit he is right about that, I have seen it during sessions before.
I protested for awhile, explaining the reason I had for wanting to see him face to face. But the more I thought about it, I had to admit my T was probably right, I will not get what I want out of the session. My T will even be more guarded especially since I mentioned a seeing a lawyer. He had good reason to be scared, really. But that isn't me, I am not going to do that. I believe deep in my heart that he didn't mean to hurt me, even though that is what happened. He isn't a bad guy, he just got made some mistakes because of the intense feelings on both sides, and it ended badly.
My T believes he can help me through this. I am willing to do whatever, I need to get through this anger, this pain, and sense of lose the runs deep.I told my T that I would go along with what he thinks is best, because I trust he knows. I have to believe this, because I haven't done such a great job in my life and have made so many mistakes. We have a good relationship and I am so glad, he is so honest with me even when he didn't have to be. I have a good T now, I feel I can finally maybe resolve so many issues that have plagued my life with his help. I am even more willing now, I feel overconfident of of his experience and his warmness.
At the end of this teary eyed session, I held out my hand to shake his, he shook my extended hand and covered it with it his other hand and looked at me like he was happy to do so.I am still feeling so emotional, on the verge of tears. But you know what, I feel my relationship with my old T is truly over now and maybe it is because I am giving my trust to my T.
I called and left a message with him(old T) to say I was sorry I said I was going to talk to a lawyer, I have no plans on doing that, I told him we will not be meeting because my T believes it wouldn't be good idea for any of us. Then I asked him to please keep his boundaries that he said he follows in public. I said please don't start contact with me, I don't mind saying hi if say it first, but please let me have my privacy.
It is over, it is time to move on. I still have these feelings that need to be worked out in therapy, but I truly know now that it is over. ;(
I think I need a nap. I think I need a while to grieve. It feels like my old T is dead now.
Posted by Dinah on July 31, 2008, at 16:43:04
In reply to I am back home, what a hard session, posted by Lemonaide on July 31, 2008, at 16:04:15
(((( Lemonaide ))))
That must have been very difficult for you. But what a wonderful leap of faith.
Posted by antigua3 on August 2, 2008, at 10:25:28
In reply to I am back home, what a hard session, posted by Lemonaide on July 31, 2008, at 16:04:15
I hope you can find peace, now, that's what's important. I'm glad this finally came to a head for you, and maybe now you can heal.
antigua
This is the end of the thread.
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