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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 15:07:01
I hurt so much right now, I just want to disappear, today was therapy and it was very hard.
Posted by rskontos on August 5, 2008, at 16:51:35
In reply to x, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 15:07:01
Lemonaide, I am sorry therapy is hard for you. I truly understand. I wish I could wipe it all away for all of us. I have no words of wisdom which is why I am so quiet on the boards these days. But I wanted to just add my support.
rsk
Posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 18:07:00
In reply to x, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 15:07:01
I had the worse session, I cried so hard I couldn't catch my breath and it was at the end of the session, I went out the back door this time and I just sat in my car and cried forever before I could ever think of driving.
I am wondering if my current T can help me with the issue of my old T. He is being impartial now since my old T contacted him, so now everything out of his mouth is not yes my T DID this, it is IF he did it. When I asked why he couldn't believe me, why he says that, he said he is worried it is going to be turned around that Dr. B said such and such. So there will be no validation on what happened. Part of it is that he has been in the same situation himself, so it is bringing up that for him. I know this is hard for him.
Plus I found out that my old T quit the gym. He said it was for other reasons, not just me. Well I know for a fact that his renewal is in Nov, so that fact he isn't there now, makes me believe it has mostly to do with me. My old T is frugal, he wouldn't want to pay another starting up fee and waste his months he has already paid for.So now he won't talk to me, and he has taken away an possible reason to see me. It is like he just threw me in the trash. He could have helped me with this, after all it is of his doing. I wanted a happy ending I think. I wanted to feel good about him. Now I am hurt again, that he could just throw me away like nothing happened. I don't even get a chance to have things end well. It is like I am being punished for telling. Telling the truth of what he did.
Now I have a T afraid to support me, and an old T who wants nothing to do with me. All because of what my old T did. This isn't fair.My current T said not to be avoident doing the EMDR, I WASN't I was crying so hard, I couldn't even see let alone look at him. So I did the EMDR and felt even worse.
Earlier in session he mentioned something that we never talked about, and finally asked if my old T told him that. I was right, although he didn't say I was but he stammered pretty good when I asked him that. The thing was that it wasn't true, it was my old T defensive stuff he is saying about me. So now my current T believes this what he is saying. Not fair at all
Can I get a T to help me with this? DO you think my current T is the one for this issue?I am just so hurt,it feels like nobody believes me what my old T did and I am being punished for telling.
Posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 18:07:56
In reply to Re: x » Lemonaide, posted by rskontos on August 5, 2008, at 16:51:35
Thanks Rk, I always appreciate seeing you, you are a good friend. I wish I was a better one for you.
Posted by Poet on August 5, 2008, at 18:08:44
In reply to x, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 15:07:01
Hi Lemonaide,
Sorry your therapy is making you hurt so much. I sometimes wonder why I go back every week, but when T says same time next week I always nod yes. Right now for me therapy isn't hard it just feels like I'm going nowhere. I'm on a therapy plateau.
Poet
Posted by rskontos on August 5, 2008, at 20:28:39
In reply to Re: x, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 18:07:56
Thanks but don't worry for me. I am a mess right now I won't lie but I do and have always survived.
I am sorry for your T, both old and new, seemly dumping on you.
My take on this, is your old T is trying hard to protect himself and your new T is probably feeling some remorse like you indicated for himself crossing the line but he could just feel that in opening this door it hardly ever ends well.
I mean in the end, if your old T admits his role he is opening himself up to legal ramifications and I just don't think he will
do that no matter what. He should own up to his professional misconduct but sadly he will let you take the fall I believe. I have seen this too many times on Babble in the time i have been here.I myself have no experience with this issue, I just am here to support you and to tell you in my humble opin, you don't need to be so hard on yourself.
take it slowly and try to breathe. You are going fast down a slippery slope IMHO.
rsk
take care friend.
Posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 20:37:04
In reply to Re: x » Lemonaide, posted by rskontos on August 5, 2008, at 20:28:39
Thanks Rk,
I feel like I just landed in poo from the slippery slope. I feel exhausted mentally, I think I should go to bed now.
I am so angry that I put my T's real name on my poem on my blog. I hate him right now.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2008, at 21:55:12
In reply to Re: x, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 18:07:00
I think that you ought to work it out with your current therapist. He's the one who can help you through your anger with him.
I know you really really want a happy ending with your old therapist. I understand that. It doesn't look like it's going to happen, but I understand your wanting it.
Maybe your new therapist is just trying to help you move on, given that he doesn't think you'll get the resolution you want. Maybe it's not that he doesn't believe you so much as he wants to concentrate on moving on without your old therapist.
Whatever his intentions, I'd talk to him about it some more.
For whatever my thoughts are worth.
Posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 22:33:55
In reply to Re: x » Lemonaide, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2008, at 21:55:12
Thanks for what you think DInah.
I am to tired right now to respond.
All I know is that I feel like I have been thrown away like trash from my old T, he doesn't have to acknowlege his mistakes, or say he is sorry to me, he can just write me off like I didn't exist. I feel he should of at least tried to help me.
I am upset that he doesn't like me anymore,(that really hurts) I am upset that he messed up my therapy, I am upset that I have to pay for his mess up by paying for therapy to resolves his mistakes. It is like he slammed me again.
I took off his name on my blog, i feel that is ever being too nasty, but I am so f*ck*ng angry,. I feel like what happened to me should not be swept under the rug and forgotten.The worst part I still feel him within me, but I am beginning to hate that part of me, I want to cut it out of me. I hate that I can't feel I can trust right now, even my current T. I feel alone and I hate myself right now. I hate who I am and I give up on getting any better because not even my therapist who worked with me for 2 1/2 years likes me. My current T is frusterated at this whole thing. I hate myself so much for all of this, my old T wants to get rid of me because I am nothing but used trash that can't even be recycled. I hate him but I hate myself even more now.
Posted by Dinah on August 5, 2008, at 23:07:48
In reply to Re: x » Dinah, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 22:33:55
> I hate myself so much for all of this, my old T wants to get rid of me because I am nothing but used trash that can't even be recycled. I hate him but I hate myself even more now.
Lemonaide, you know that isn't true. He didn't even terminate you. He clearly didn't think you were used trash. He might now feel that the situation is too uncomfortable for him to enjoy being at the gym, but that has nothing to do with who you are, or what he thinks of you as a person. It has more to do with the situation, and what he thinks about himself as a therapist. It may even be that since he knows your seeing him at the gym is causing you distress, that he wants to do something to help you by not putting you through that.
You aren't to blame for your old therapist's actions. And I have heard nothing that makes me think your therapist (I don't even want to say your new therapist. He's your *therapist* now.) thinks badly of you.
I find that sometimes when I experience a strong emotion like anger, that it seems like the anger door gets opened, and anger pours out over everything. I don't know if it's anything the same for you.
As you know, I'm a great believer in sleep. If you're tired, try to get some sleep. Things often look entirely different after a good night's sleep.
Posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 23:25:24
In reply to Re: x » Lemonaide, posted by Dinah on August 5, 2008, at 23:07:48
Trash once so wanted
Now un-recyclable,
Just limp refuge
Wet with
Emotional baggage
Thrown away like
Yesterday's news.
The thread of fibers
Fall apart
Until nothing remains
Of what was so wanted.
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2008, at 0:41:48
In reply to The End, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 23:25:24
Maybe another t and start fresh just a thought. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2008, at 1:07:30
In reply to Re: x » Dinah, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 22:33:55
I kind of hate to suggest this.
But is it possible that part of your anger with your therapist has something to do with the fact that because you trusted him you didn't go through with that meeting with your old therapist? And now your old therapist has quit the gym, your dream of rapprochement is gone?
Just a wild thought there. But if you're currently upset that you will never be able to have a good closure with your old therapist, mightn't you be a bit upset with your therapist for discouraging you from meeting with him?
Posted by Lemonaide on August 6, 2008, at 8:45:06
In reply to Re: x » Lemonaide, posted by Dinah on August 6, 2008, at 1:07:30
Hi Dinah,
I would say your idea's are not wild they are valid and true actually, but it is just part of it. I am grieving the total loss of my old T, this is true, it hit me so hard yesterday, it makes me think if I didn't say anything or try to make amends, this wouldn't have happened. I feel like a part of me had died inside, I had a bond with him, nothing like I have had with anyone else, and now it is dead. This hurts like nothing I have ever experience, it is primal hurt, I can't discribe it really.
I am upset with my current T for a number of reasons. I kinda wonder if my old T even said he would meet with me, because why would he quit the gym then. I think my current T might have tried to lower the blow that my old T didn't want to meet with me. He insisted so much that it wouldn't be a good idea. I wonder if the possible was already "zero"
What hurts too is that I spent an entire session explaining what I meant by soul mate, which isn't the word that really describes what I felt, but it was the closest thing to it. He even told me about his soul mate, too. Well yesterday when I broke down, I said I lost my soul mate too, he said he didn't believe in soul mates, etc. That even his wife wasn't a soul mate, that she could leave him for a number of reasons, etc. Then I asked him about his friend he calls a soul mate, and he stammered around that. So he forgot an entire session, one that was so important to me.Then when he said something that I never said or talked about, I know he got it from my old T defenses when he talked to him. But he presented it like because of this, this happened. Then I am like whoa, where did you get this idea from. Then I directly asked him what did my old T say to him. He wouldn't answer me, and stammered about. I think he realized he did this, because he was saying something about that he knew what my old T would say when I talked to him. Well fine, but it doesn't mean it is fact, and for him to say what he said, was so wrong especially since it wasn't true and it didn't come from me.
I am very upset, I feel I have lost both my T's now, and I feel like I have lost myself. I really hate myself right now. I hate that I tried to even make things right, I hate that I had hope and thought the best of my old T. When in the end he just dumped me and I don't mean when I fired him, I mean he dumped me because he won't see me or even talk to me now.
I just don't know if I can ever get over this. Plus my current T, I think didn't know what to do, this whole thing blew up in his face. I was so upset when I learned my old T quit the gym. My T didn't tell me until now. That makes me wonder if my old T even agreed to meet with me in my current T's office.
I think this is the saddest and angriest I have ever been in my life. I feel like I am nothing but a piece of sh*t. I am sorry if this upsets anyone, but it is how I feel now. I feel worthless.
Posted by antigua3 on August 6, 2008, at 9:50:45
In reply to x, posted by Lemonaide on August 5, 2008, at 15:07:01
This is such a messed up situation for you to be in and I'm truly sorry it's working out this way.
Let me throw another idea out here. Stomp on it, if you'd like....
Does all of this bring up something from your past? Is this a retraumatization? If it is, it's awful, I know, but maybe you could try to think back to see if this is a pattern in your life. If it is, you have been given a great opportunity to work on it, and hopefully resolve how you feel now.
Just a thought. Hope it's ok.,
antigua
Posted by twinleaf on August 6, 2008, at 12:34:17
In reply to Re: x » Dinah, posted by Lemonaide on August 6, 2008, at 8:45:06
Gosh. So many very, very hard, painful things collapsed on you all at once.
It sounds as if you had important unfinished business with the old T. Even though you were angry at him for having wobbly sexual boundaries, and for acting out some at the gym, he also meant an awful lot to you. I didn't realize how important he still was, even if it was just the belief that he cared about you as a person, and that you and he would occasionally have a warm moment of meeting at the gym in the future.
It's puzzling to me how your present T allowed himself to get so involved in all of this. First, you were going to see the old T on your own; then, all three of you were going to meet, and now there's no meeting. Why is HE telling you that the old T will not be coming to the gym any more? Surely he must realize how devastating and rejecting this information is for you. And why is he using information apparently obtained from the old T in your session?
It's hard to know where to start to straighten this mess out!
Since there's nothing you can do, at least now, to get the positive closure you would like from the old T, I guess it would be smartest to focus on your relationship with your present T. It seems as though the thing that is hurting you the most, and making you so angry about him is that he and the old T have apparently had talks about you that you did not know about; they may even have made decisions together about the meeting that you were unaware of
To resume the really good relationship you have always had, you do need to talk openly and honestly with him- in particular, you need to tell him how angry you are about the things he has done. If you can both deal with that, I bet your relationship can be even better and deeper than it has been. If it were me, I think I'd ask to see him more frequently as you work your way through this, so that you'll have less time between sessions to get into very negative, distorted states of mind about yourself.
As to the old T, at some point you will probably want to find a way to say goodbye. The way things are now- especially because he is quite fearful that you might take him to court- I don't see how you and he could have a good experience together if you met. But it could be a goal for the future, say, a few years from now, when you have made further progress with your therapy. He will need to know you are coming to tell him how much the emotional connection you had meant to you. And you can't mix those positive feelings in together with threats to sue! That is another instance where you will need to work on your anger about how he treated you- but with your present therapist. Not with him.
I know that things are terrible right now- it seems as though both therapists have let you down. I HOPE you will find a way to reinstate the wonderful relationship you have always had with your present T. One way to make a start on that might be to look in the archives and even print out the many posts you have written about him. It always seemed as though you had one of the best client-therapist relationships with him. You felt totally accepted and trusting; you didn't even feel you always needed to look your prettiest. You have shared affection, closeness, humor. Only your present ( justified) anger is preventing you from having all those things again. I think you have always been quite daring and courageous in how you deal with things. I hope I'll read here that you were able to use those wonderful qualities in this situation.
Posted by Lemonaide on August 6, 2008, at 15:12:30
In reply to crisis....., posted by twinleaf on August 6, 2008, at 12:34:17
Hi twinleaf,
You are right, it feels like a crisis. My old T said he would see me but wanted to talk to my current T to find out what is going on in therapy with me, for me to want to see him a year later. I sent him a letter that spelled it all out, I don't know how it could have been more clear. So I signed a release form for them to talk to each other.
That took forever because my current T has been sick and in the hospital twice.
My current T wasn't going to tell me about my old T quiting the gym but yesterday he told me because I said that I still had to deal with seeing him in person at the gym. Then he told me, at first I was glad, but then I just emotionally collapsed because of it. I think it might have freaked out my T because he has seen me cry and upset, but I completely lost it, I couldn't breathe because I was hyperventilating because I was crying so hard. The sobs shock my whole body. I was chewing my thumb too, I don't remember being this upset ever.You know how in the old movies they would try to knock someone out of it by slapping them in the face or throwing water on them? Well it was like he was doing that, only verbally. The stuff he said, just made me more angry on top of being sad.
He finally did call me today and I am seeing him on his lunch hour. He said he didn't want me to sit with these feeling until my next session on Tues. He said this is something he thinks is best we do in person. So I guess I am going.
Posted by Lemonaide on August 6, 2008, at 15:14:17
In reply to Re: x » Lemonaide, posted by antigua3 on August 6, 2008, at 9:50:45
Hi, I am sure this is bringing up stuff from my past, and it is okay to bring that up with me. I hope my current T doesn't quit me now because I just don't think I can start all over again with anyone else.
Posted by sunnydays on August 6, 2008, at 19:28:04
In reply to Re: x » antigua3, posted by Lemonaide on August 6, 2008, at 15:14:17
It kind of sounds like to me that maybe you were really hoping to meet with old T. However, you did think at one point that it was best to let old T and new T talk, and that you trusted new T's judgment. How come you don't trust his judgment now that the answer is to not talk to old T? I wouldn't want my T's talking about me either - they just know the lingo so even though they may not tell each other specific things, I think sometimes just the language they use can suggest inferences to each other.
I'm sorry you are hurting so much. It sounds like you have a lot of hard, painful work to do with your current T to deal with your anger at him, your anger at old T, and to grieve what happened with old T. Good luck.
sunnydays
Posted by Hermitian on August 6, 2008, at 19:59:01
In reply to Re: x » Lemonaide, posted by sunnydays on August 6, 2008, at 19:28:04
L-
I really sympathize with your distress and I can understand how this entire drama could be so painful for you.
Now for the kicker. It ain't drama for your therapists. It's a job. Those guys aren't losing any sleep over you.
First of all, all medical providers are inclined to side with members of their own tribe. It's a fact of life with that fraternity. History tells us that your new guy will circle the wagans with your old guy.
Secondly, your old therapist has written you off. He's cashed those checks. What he doesn't want is a law suit for mal-practice. In his mind (and your current therapist's too) he CAN'T apologize. Because an apology is an admission of some sort of guilt and his is just not going to expose himself that way.
With micro-voice recorders, can you for one minute imagine him giving you any kind avenue for legal action by speaking candidly? He dropped his gym membership because frankly, he does not want to risk a scene that may provide contributory evidence, with witnesses no less. His motives now are strictly utilitarian.
Nope, you're history in his mind. You might as well make him history in yours. Maybe sign up for a group class or something at the gym, do some volunteer work. Anything to get that clown off your mind.
Good Luck
-H
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