![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 51. Go back in thread:
Posted by lemonaide on September 17, 2008, at 12:32:23
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » sassyfrancesca, posted by lemonaide on September 17, 2008, at 12:17:50
Sassy,
Sorry if my responses hurt you, I know I am blunt to the point sometimes, but I care about you, and truly want the best for you. I just had to say what I felt and I hope you know that I have your best interests in mind.
Posted by lemonaide on September 17, 2008, at 12:35:53
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself, posted by lemonaide on September 17, 2008, at 12:32:23
Would you like someone to turn him in for his unethical behavior? Just wondering...
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 13:26:52
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself, posted by lemonaide on September 17, 2008, at 12:35:53
> Would you like someone to turn him in for his unethical behavior? Just wondering...
No, I have to handle this myself....Thanks, though.
Posted by lucie lu on September 17, 2008, at 13:54:23
In reply to T Touching Himself, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 8:17:49
Sassy, after damping down my first reaction to his behavior... I began to think about what this adds to an already complex situation. First, there's the elephant in the room. Second, there's the recent money thing, which it looks like may mean you having to go on your knees to him and ask for his largesse. Now this.
When I add all this up, I see it putting you not only further into a great state of inner frustration, but worse - frankly, I find it very hard to add this all up in any way that does not come up with the ultimate boundary crossing. I am really very worried for you, Sassy. You have already endured a highly frustrating and very unequal relationship with him for years, which on some level must leave you feeling disempowered at best, maybe demeaned at worst. You have been through a nightmare of a long, abusive marriage, and from what you say, this guy has been the only one in your eyes since your divorce. There must be still a lot stored up from that marriage that would likely get dumped on top of the detritus of this situation, if anything did happen. Plus you are potentially financially dependent on him if you want to continue seeing him. What a powder keg.
Sassy, I really understand how hard it must be when you are deeply attached to someone to purposefully detach from there for the sake of your own safety and welfare. Especially where you're still so vulnerable after your divorce. But I just keep seeing you right between the cross-hairs and it scares me.
What if you do get some consultation? Maybe you can find a place with a sliding fee scale, so you might be able to continue being seen on a continuing basis, "apres la deluge." And, as others have said, it is obvious that you are single, personally attractive, intelligent and interesting. You know it is very hard to encounter new guy possibilities when you are emotionally involved with someone else. I'll bet you'd find, once the baggage room got cleared out, that you'd have them lining up to get to know you :)
(((((((((Sassy))))))))))
I only want the best for you and to see you safe.
- Lucie
Posted by JayMac on September 17, 2008, at 14:17:44
In reply to T Touching Himself, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 8:17:49
Hi Sassy,
I'm really glad you made this post. I think it is brave of you to make us aware of the severity of the problem. Your T is irresponsible, unethical, and NOT WORTHY OF YOUR TRUST. He is most definitely undeserving of your money as well. Please don't take this post harshly. Your T's behavior is not about what you are or are not doing, it's about him! You are NOT responsible for how HE reacts.Fortunately, you have the power to act on this. You have the power to make things different. While I understand you want to confront him, I don't know if that would change the dynamics between you two. Has it changed things in the past? In my opinion, I think you need to distance yourself from your current T, and immediately have a new T in place so you can work this out.
Your T's behavior is seriously damaging!! Whether or not you like it, your T's motives are not in YOUR best interest. None of this is not your fault!! No one deserves this type of treatment! No one!
Are you ready to make a change? When will his behavior be enough for you to get out? You are worth it.
Many, many hugs to you! Take good care!
JayMac
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 14:59:40
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself, posted by lucie lu on September 17, 2008, at 13:54:23
> Lucie: You are very sweet and kind and you DO get it!
Sassy, after damping down my first reaction to his behavior... I began to think about what this adds to an already complex situation. First, there's the elephant in the room. Exactly.
Second, there's the recent money thing, which it looks like may mean you having to go on your knees to him and ask for his largesse. Now this.
I know; it just keeps on coming, LOL!
>
> When I add all this up, I see it putting you not only further into a great state of inner frustration, but worse - frankly, I find it very hard to add this all up in any way that does not come up with the ultimate boundary crossing. I am really very worried for you, Sassy.(((Thankyou))).
You have already endured a highly frustrating and very unequal relationship with him for years, which on some level must leave you feeling disempowered at best, maybe demeaned at worst. You have been through a nightmare of a long, abusive marriage, and from what you say, this guy has been the only one in your eyes since your divorce.
There was another guy 2 years ago; we were making plans for a trip and possibly marriage; he disappeared without one word, and I had to process that (took over a year); I had written my t a letter about leaving him; so I had been preparing for that.
freThere must be still a lot stored up from that marriage that would likely get dumped on top of the detritus of this situation, if anything did happen. Plus you are potentially financially dependent on him if you want to continue seeing him. What a powder keg.
Exactly (ka-boom)>>
>
> Sassy, I really understand how hard it must be when you are deeply attached to someone to purposefully detach from there for the sake of your own safety and welfare. Especially where you're still so vulnerable after your divorce. But I just keep seeing you right between the cross-hairs and it scares me.
>
> What if you do get some consultation? That is a good idea; actually I have looked around for another t to bounce things off; actually written to some, and they answered that they have no expertise in this kind of thing, and I am not surprised. I educated myself quite a bit.Maybe you can find a place with a sliding fee scale, so you might be able to continue being seen on a continuing basis, "apres la deluge." And, as others have said, it is obvious that you are single, personally attractive, intelligent and interesting. You know it is very hard to encounter new guy possibilities when you are emotionally involved with someone else.
Actually, it would be easy if I could find someone; I date, etc......
I'll bet you'd find, once the baggage room got cleared out, that you'd have them lining up to get to know you :)
you are very sweet and kind!
Thankyou so much!
Love, Sassy
>
> (((((((((Sassy))))))))))
>
> I only want the best for you and to see you safe.
>
> - Lucie
>
>
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 15:04:33
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself, posted by JayMac on September 17, 2008, at 14:17:44
> Hi Sassy,
Hi, ((JayMac)))): You are a sweetie, and so right!
> I'm really glad you made this post. I think it is brave of you to make us aware of the severity of the problem. Thankyou......if I told you all of the things he has said and done, you would be shocked; that is why I don't mention them!Your T is irresponsible, unethical, and NOT WORTHY OF YOUR TRUST. He is most definitely undeserving of your money as well. Please don't take this post harshly. I don't at all ((JayMac))).
Your T's behavior is not about what you are or are not doing, it's about him! You are NOT responsible for how HE reacts.
Yes, I know that, he CHOOSES his behavior.
>
> Fortunately, you have the power to act on this. You have the power to make things different. While I understand you want to confront him, I don't know if that would change the dynamics between you two. Has it changed things in the past? In my opinion, I think you need to distance yourself from your current T, and immediately have a new T in place so you can work this out.I know.
>
> Your T's behavior is seriously damaging!! i can't tell you how many times I have confronted him in the past, when he said or did something that was painful. I am not shy to speak up.Whether or not you like it, your T's motives are not in YOUR best interest. None of this is not your fault!! No one deserves this type of treatment! No one!
>
> Are you ready to make a change? When will his behavior be enough for you to get out? You are worth it.Well, in a few months, I will have to tell him I cannot see him anymore. I know I should have that conversation now, but I am overwhelmed.
>
> Many, many hugs to you! Take good care!
> JayMacMany, many hugs to you, too.......sweetie!
Love, Alice
Posted by Wittgensteinz on September 17, 2008, at 17:03:35
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » Wittgensteinz, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 10:23:41
Sassy,
The violations of professionalism are clear - goes without saying.
I feel very sorry and sad for you. This is a man you love and *trust*? Perhaps you are dependent on him in some ways. At the very least you are clearly strongly attached. Yet he is exploiting (abusing?) you, degrading you - what a horrible, selfish thing to do - what a terrible situation to be in. I think you are in a very vulnerable position and I really hope things don't decline further. How can you keep things safe? How can he keep things safe? What obligations does he feel he has to you and your care/treatment?
I get the feeling if it weren't for your self-control, things would already have descended into a clearly unethical relationship between you and him (not to say that there haven't already been violations on his part). Surely this is a huge burden on you, given the way you feel toward him. At the same time, perhaps the excitement of this married man clearly being turned on/aroused by you is hard to bring to a close - perhaps in a way there is some masochism at play - self-punishment on your part??
I certainly feel an ambiguity regarding my T and what I rationally know is for my own good and what emotionally I sometimes wish for. It shouldn't be for the patient to decipher between these two things, while the T can do what he whims.
It should be the role of the therapist to practice self-control/self-containment, not that of the patient.
Your T threw you onto the couch 7/8 times??? And the other things you mention are creepy and slimy. Are you at all scared when you are there with him? Is there a risk that he would physically hurt you or force himself onto you? Please don't put yourself at that risk.
I'm so sorry he is doing this to you - this isn't how you should be treated - you know this of course.
I hope you can at least start to talk about this with him and that things remain safe and under control.
((((SassyFrancesca)))))
Posted by rskontos on September 17, 2008, at 17:29:22
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » sassyfrancesca, posted by Wittgensteinz on September 17, 2008, at 17:03:35
Sassy,
I have read your assessments and questions about your t for awhile now. I haven't responded much because I don't any experience with transference so I did not feel qualified to give much of an answer. However a pattern seems to be emerging with respect to your T. Remember not too long when you were presenting or going to the APA Hawaii convention and he claimed he never led you on. And how upset you were?
IMHO, he is playing a cat and mouse game with you. He baits and retracts with this flirtatious game and when you sometimes ask him directly he denies it.
He is dangerous and this is a dangerous game. You have posted in anguish about your situation. It just doesn't seem healthy to me. Now I am no expert. But I feel he has hurt you tremendously and the game he is playing is so potentially damaging to you. You are worthy of so much more. He has violated his professional ethics yet will not own up to it. He toys with your affections and no where do I see how it is therapuetic only seems to be something to booster his own ego.
Please please please take care of yourself in this ploy of his for that is what I feel it is and you are at risk.
I care about the damage he has done and the damage he can do in the future or may be doing as we speak.
You deserve a T that treats you safely not like this.
And you deserve peace from all you have already gone through. It seems to me he is further exposing you to trauma.
Take care my friend.
rsk
Posted by lemonaide on September 17, 2008, at 22:04:53
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself/sassy, posted by rskontos on September 17, 2008, at 17:29:22
I think there is more to think about Sassy than is he attracted to you or is he being ethical.
You mentioned you have never had a "healthy" relationship of romantic love. So in a way you know your T is being unethical, but in a way you still want him anyway. You stayed in a unhealthy and abusive marriage for many years, even though the physical intimacy was good. I wonder how this relationship started with your ex. Did it start as very sexual? Maybe that is the only way you know how get a man is through sexual advances.
You have to admit you have tempted your T in many ways, and he is showing his natural reaction to this, but he still needs to keep his tongue in his mouth anyway. Your relationship is very sexualized with him, and I wonder if that component was taken away, what would be the attraction then?
You have fell in love with you ex too, so maybe who you are being attracted to has to do with your past. It took a long time for you to leave your marriage, and it seems like you have been dealing with this unethical T for a long time too.There most be something inside of you that feels you don't deserve better than unethical T or abusive men or you don't see the abuse till after you fall in love with them. But would you really want to be with a man who comes on to his clients, cheats on his wife? How would that feel if you were with him?
You deserve so much better, and as pretty and attractive you are, you could do much better in the looks department, and with your love and smartness, you could do better than him in the personal moral department, than being with your T.
I know the "unforbidden" is a quite a rush of excitement, but what follows whether he acts on his attraction or not,it will still be hurtful to you either way eventually.
One poster said how can you look for a man, when you are wrapped up so much with your T and want him? I am sure that is preventing you from meeting a good man for you.I know all of this hurts like hell, but I would like to see you leave the relationship for you. I don't care if he is happily married or not, what he is doing with you is not only harmful to you, but it is disrespectful to his wife. If he acts on this in the wrong way, he will not only lose his wife, his church, and his career and I think eventually you.
I really wish you could find another T, because it doesn't seem he is really helping you anymore, maybe a lot at first. I remembered you said you haven't cried in years. Shouldn't he know this and work on this with you? It seems you have more therapy to do, but with all this stuff between both you and him, I don't see how you have a chance to work on you.
Sassy, it would be good to look into why you are falling in love with men who are abusing you. It is uncommon I know, but I suspect there is something to all of this. We all tell you that you deserve better, but do you believe it?((((((Sassy Twin)))))
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 7:31:00
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » sassyfrancesca, posted by Wittgensteinz on September 17, 2008, at 17:03:35
> Sassy,
>
> The violations of professionalism are clear - goes without saying. Yes, I do know that ((Witti))
>
> I feel very sorry and sad for you. Thankyou..... This is a man you love and *trust*? Unfortunately, yes.Perhaps you are dependent on him in some ways. Yes, I am. He is the only man in my life (although i sure am trying to meet someone else!)
At the very least you are clearly strongly attached. Yet he is exploiting (abusing?) you, degrading you - what a horrible, selfish thing to do -Yes, selfish......
what a terrible situation to be in. I think you are in a very vulnerable position and I really hope things don't decline further. How can you keep things safe? How can he keep things safe? What obligations does he feel he has to you and your care/treatment?
Hard to say; he actually said last week that he "didn't want to hurt me." duhhhh......
>
> I get the feeling if it weren't for your self-control, things would already have descended into a clearly unethical relationship between you and him (not to say that there haven't already been violations on his part).Yes, it is ironic; I am the client and can behave any way I want, but haven't crossed any boundaries (well, I like to tease him and bump into him sometimes...but I do that with everyone)....and HE is the t and is subject to rules and ethics, etc.
Surely this is a huge burden on you, given the way you feel toward him. At the same time, perhaps the excitement of this married man clearly being turned on/aroused by you is hard to bring to a close - perhaps in a way there is some masochism at play - self-punishment on your part??
I don't think so; if I were not in love with him, I would just blow off his behavior.
>
> I certainly feel an ambiguity regarding my T and what I rationally know is for my own good and what emotionally I sometimes wish for. It shouldn't be for the patient to decipher between these two things, while the T can do what he whims.Absolutely!
>
> It should be the role of the therapist to practice self-control/self-containment, not that of the patient.
>
> Your T threw you onto the couch 7/8 times??? And the other things you mention are creepy and slimy. Are you at all scared when you are there with him?No, never.
Is there a risk that he would physically hurt you or force himself onto you?
He hasn't in all of the years I've been with him, so I am not concerned about that.
Please don't put yourself at that risk.
>
> I'm so sorry he is doing this to you - this isn't how you should be treated - you know this of course.
>
> I hope you can at least start to talk about this with him and that things remain safe and under control.I will be telling him next week about how what he did made me feel. I still feel angry about it. It was just blatant.
(((Witti))): Thank you for caring.
Sassy
>
> ((((SassyFrancesca)))))
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 7:36:27
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself/sassy, posted by rskontos on September 17, 2008, at 17:29:22
> Sassy,
>
(((rsk))): You are very dear and ALL of your assessments about what is transpiring with my t are absolutely....dead on!> I have read your assessments and questions about your t for awhile now. I haven't responded much because I don't any experience with transference so I did not feel qualified to give much of an answer. However a pattern seems to be emerging with respect to your T. Remember not too long when you were presenting or going to the APA Hawaii convention and he claimed he never led you on. And how upset you were?
Yes, he told me he saw me 5 times at the convention, and was looking for me at the dance; sheesh....he wouldn't SPEAK to me (ethics), but he WOULD have danced with me if he found me? Boy is that twisted!?
>
> IMHO, he is playing a cat and mouse game with you. He baits and retracts with this flirtatious game and when you sometimes ask him directly he denies it.Yes, I call it come here go away......
>
> He is dangerous and this is a dangerous game. You have posted in anguish about your situation.Anguish is the perfect word for how I feel.
It just doesn't seem healthy to me. Now I am no expert. But I feel he has hurt you tremendously and the game he is playing is so potentially damaging to you. You are worthy of so much more. He has violated his professional ethics yet will not own up to it. He toys with your affections and no where do I see how it is therapuetic only seems to be something to booster his own ego.
i have said that many times.....his ego.
>
> Please please please take care of yourself in this ploy of his for that is what I feel it is and you are at risk.
>
> I care about the damage he has done and the damage he can do in the future or may be doing as we speak.
>
> You deserve a T that treats you safely not like this.
>
> And you deserve peace from all you have already gone through. It seems to me he is further exposing you to trauma.
>
> Take care my friend.Thank YOU my friend....for your caring, hepful words.
Hugs, Sassy
>
> rsk
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 7:47:23
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself/sassy, posted by lemonaide on September 17, 2008, at 22:04:53
> I think there is more to think about Sassy than is he attracted to you or is he being ethical.
(((Twin))):
>
> You mentioned you have never had a "healthy" relationship of romantic love. So in a way you know your T is being unethical, but in a way you still want him anyway. You stayed in a unhealthy and abusive marriage for many years, even though the physical intimacy was good. I wonder how this relationship started with your ex. Did it start as very sexual?Eventually it went to the sexual, but not right away.
Maybe that is the only way you know how get a man is through sexual advances. No, that wasn't what happened. I had other relationships that were not sexual (brought up very strict, LOL!)
> You have to admit you have tempted your T in many ways, and he is showing his natural reaction to this, but he still needs to keep his tongue in his mouth anyway. Your relationship is very sexualized with him, and I wonder if that component was taken away, what would be the attraction then?Unfortunately, HE is the one who sexualized it. He should have kept his attraction invisible to me and done his homework. If that "component" were taken away, I would still love him.
> You have fell in love with you ex too, so maybe who you are being attracted to has to do with your past.Nope, never was in love with the ex; married him for security.
It took a long time for you to leave your marriage, and it seems like you have been dealing with this unethical T for a long time too. Absolutely.
>
> There most be something inside of you that feels you don't deserve better than unethical T or abusive men or you don't see the abuse till after you fall in love with them. But would you really want to be with a man who comes on to his clients, cheats on his wife? How would that feel if you were with him? Oh, I agree.> You deserve so much better, and as pretty and attractive you are, you could do much better in the looks department, and with your love and smartness, you could do better than him in the personal moral department, than being with your T.
I know ((twin))..
> I know the "unforbidden" is a quite a rush of excitement, but what follows whether he acts on his attraction or not,it will still be hurtful to you either way eventually.
> One poster said how can you look for a man, when you are wrapped up so much with your T and want him? I am sure that is preventing you from meeting a good man for you.No, it isn't.....I met a man 2 years ago (we were talking marriage), and wrote a letter to my t about leaving.....then this man disappeared without a word; took me over a year to get over that. So, of course I stayed with my t.
>
> I know all of this hurts like hell, but I would like to see you leave the relationship for you. I don't care if he is happily married or not, what he is doing with you is not only harmful to you, but it is disrespectful to his wife. If he acts on this in the wrong way, he will not only lose his wife, his church, and his career and I think eventually you.
> I really wish you could find another T, because it doesn't seem he is really helping you anymore, maybe a lot at first. I remembered you said you haven't cried in years. Shouldn't he know this and work on this with you?I will mention it.
It seems you have more therapy to do, but with all this stuff between both you and him, I don't see how you have a chance to work on you.
Actually, I realize I really don't have anything to work on (except the excruciating lonliness)....
and no one can really do anything about that.> Sassy, it would be good to look into why you are falling in love with men who are abusing you. Well, when I fell in love with him, he wasn't abusive.
It is uncommon I know, but I suspect there is something to all of this. We all tell you that you deserve better, but do you believe it?((((((Sassy Twin)))))
Yes, I think I do! I keep going places when I can, and dating occasionally, but have not found a man to even be friends with (which is what I want initially)....
((((Twin)))
Thank you for caring...Sassy
Posted by Geegee on September 18, 2008, at 10:01:54
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself/sassy » lemonaide, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 7:47:23
Hi,
Perhaps you could ask him how the behavior you describe fits into your treatment plan. I doubt there's a ready answer for this, but it could get you two talking about what is and what is not effective in your therapy, assuming that this is something that's ineffective that you want changed, that is.Just a thought. I like the idea of printing out this thread and bringing it in for him, too.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2008, at 10:22:58
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself/sassy » sassyfrancesca, posted by Geegee on September 18, 2008, at 10:01:54
I really like that idea, gg.
It would help him think about his behavior in therapeutic terms. I'd be interested in hearing his answer.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 10:24:47
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself/sassy » sassyfrancesca, posted by Geegee on September 18, 2008, at 10:01:54
> Hi,
Hi, Geegee: That is an excellent idea!
yes, and I should give him a copy of the thread.
Thanks, sweetie!
Hugs, Sassy
> Perhaps you could ask him how the behavior you describe fits into your treatment plan. I doubt there's a ready answer for this, but it could get you two talking about what is and what is not effective in your therapy, assuming that this is something that's ineffective that you want changed, that is.
>
> Just a thought. I like the idea of printing out this thread and bringing it in for him, too.
>
> Take care,
>
> gg
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2008, at 10:49:31
In reply to T Touching Himself, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 8:17:49
Sassy, to change the topic a bit...
You've said several times in this thread that if you found a man to date, you'd be willing to leave your therapist. That you wouldn't put up with his behavior if there was someone else in your life.
Sassy, there doesn't have to be a man in your life. It's ok to refuse to put up with a bad relationship, even if you don't have a fallback position.
I had a friend who had that viewpoint for part of her life. She was in a bad marriage, yet the only time she left, it was because she was sure she wouldn't be alone when she left. The really nice part of her story is that she eventually discovered that she was enough on her own. That she didn't need a man in her life at any cost. She left her husband. They maintained a loving relationship, but she refused to put up with poor treatment from anyone.
From what you've shared of your life, I can see that feeling alone would be scary. But not feeling alone doesn't necessarily involve a man. Strong female friendships, being part of a group, all those things can lead to plenty of companionship in your life.
I understand the desire for the sort of relationship you can only have with a man. But your therapist has been pretty clear that he isn't going to have that kind of relationship with you anyway. He's not going to leave his wife or endanger his career. All you'll ever have with him, as a relationship with a man, is a shadow of the real thing. Don't settle for less, when you can have more.
I was wondering about your comment about bumping into people. Could you say more about that? Do you lean against them? What does bumping look like? I ask because you once told me that your therapist's wrestling (on at least one occasion) was in response to your bumping him. Was his throwing you on the couch in response to your bumping? Do you initiate touch or does he? You say you do this with everyone. How do other people respond? Do they respond physically?
I'm not minimizing in any way his behavior or his responsibility. It is *always* a therapist's responsibility to behave in an ethical manner. I'm just trying to get an accurate picture in my mind.
Posted by lucie lu on September 18, 2008, at 10:52:16
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » lucie lu, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 17, 2008, at 14:59:40
> > Lucie: You are very sweet and kind and you DO get it!
:)
> > What if you do get some consultation? That is a good idea; actually I have looked around for another t to bounce things off; actually written to some, and they answered that they have no expertise in this kind of thing, and I am not surprised. I educated myself quite a bit.
Sassy, I had an idea - if you can't get anywhere finding a local person to talk to about this, how about writing for a referral to someone like Glen Gabbard? He is at the Menninger in Kansas (I think - check Amazon). He is an expert in that area. Or Ken Pope. They should be responsive, you'd think, and plugged in enough to be able to point you in the right direction of someone appropriate you could consult with. Might be worth a try... Lucie
Posted by lucie lu on September 18, 2008, at 10:55:18
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on September 18, 2008, at 10:49:31
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 12:11:13
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on September 18, 2008, at 10:49:31
> Sassy, to change the topic a bit...
>
> You've said several times in this thread that if you found a man to date, you'd be willing to leave your therapist. That you wouldn't put up with his behavior if there was someone else in your life.Yes, that is true.
>
> Sassy, there doesn't have to be a man in your life. I know.It's ok to refuse to put up with a bad relationship, even if you don't have a fallback position. Absolutely.
>
> I had a friend who had that viewpoint for part of her life. She was in a bad marriage, yet the only time she left, it was because she was sure she wouldn't be alone when she left.It was the scariest thing I ever did to leave a 32-year (abusive marriage).
The really nice part of her story is that she eventually discovered that she was enough on her own.
I know that I am.
That she didn't need a man in her life at any cost. She left her husband. They maintained a loving relationship, but she refused to put up with poor treatment from anyone.
>
> From what you've shared of your life, I can see that feeling alone would be scary. But not feeling alone doesn't necessarily involve a man. Strong female friendships, being part of a group, all those things can lead to plenty of companionship in your life.I do have wonderful female friends, but no one I can spend any time with, other than at work.
>
> I understand the desire for the sort of relationship you can only have with a man. But your therapist has been pretty clear that he isn't going to have that kind of relationship with you anyway. He's not going to leave his wife or endanger his career. All you'll ever have with him, as a relationship with a man, is a shadow of the real thing. Don't settle for less, when you can have more.
>
> I was wondering about your comment about bumping into people. Could you say more about that?Occasionally (I am a big tease)...I will lightly bump somone on the shoulder and say, "oh, excuse me"!
Do you lean against them? No
What does bumping look like? I ask because you once told me that your therapist's wrestling (on at least one occasion) was in response to your bumping him. Was his throwing you on the couch in response to your bumping? Do you initiate touch or does he? It's gone both ways.
You say you do this with everyone. How do other people respond? Do they respond physically? They just laugh.
>
> I'm not minimizing in any way his behavior or his responsibility. It is *always* a therapist's responsibility to behave in an ethical manner. I'm just trying to get an accurate picture in my mind.
>
> Hope that cleared it up, LOL...Yes a t is responsible for how therapy goes, etc.....Hugs n Love, Sassy
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 12:17:08
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » sassyfrancesca, posted by lucie lu on September 18, 2008, at 10:52:16
I've written to quite a lot of authorities on unethical/sexual misconduct and behavior.
I wrote to Peter Rutter (author of Sex in the Forbidden Zone), and he didn't respond.
I spoke with an attorney/therapist who is on the board of ethics in my State.
I've written to TELL...A group who support people who've been exploited by their t's.
I wrote to Advocate.web, also.....they of course, all say the same things...I see the big picture, etc....but am not ready to leave......
Posted by Dinah on September 18, 2008, at 12:23:58
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » Dinah, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 12:11:13
> I do have wonderful female friends, but no one I can spend any time with, other than at work.
I can see why you would feel so attached to your therapist, if he's the only person you spend any time with outside work.
Maybe it's too hard for you to leave your therapist right now. But given the inappropriate behavior he described, and given that your funds will run out soon, maybe this is the part of your life that you need to work on changing right now.
I am not so good at social stuff myself, but I have seen how people can forge strong relationships outside of a traditional family bond.
I often relate the story of a woman I know who was very active in a hobby club. She gave a lot to the club and was much loved in return. She wasn't married. Had no children. But her funeral was the most attended I have ever seen. They had to hold it up a couple of days so that everyone could come in from out of town. The place was not only packed, but it wasn't a pro forma sort of pay your respects. These were people who loved her and would miss her.
My point is that it is possible to build relationships outside of a romantic one. Is there anything you enjoy doing? Are there any clubs in your area that would involve things you enjoy doing? I've heard of astronomy clubs, doll clubs, dog clubs, knitting circles, dance groups, exercise clubs. I realize that religion is probably a sore spot for you, so I won't suggest that source of companionship.
If you can't bear to tear yourself away from your therapist, maybe we can suggest ways for you to build a network of relationships apart from your therapist, so that you won't be solely relying on him? Then you'll be able to make the choice that you think is healthiest for you.
You seem to be an outgoing and gregarious person. What do you see are the obstacles to establishing other connections?
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 13:07:28
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » sassyfrancesca, posted by Dinah on September 18, 2008, at 12:23:58
> > Dear Dinah: Thankyou....
I do have wonderful female friends, but no one I can spend any time with, other than at work.
>
> I can see why you would feel so attached to your therapist, if he's the only person you spend any time with outside work.
>
> Maybe it's too hard for you to leave your therapist right now. It is.But given the inappropriate behavior he described, and given that your funds will run out soon, maybe this is the part of your life that you need to work on changing right now. Oh, I know...
>
> I am not so good at social stuff myself, but I have seen how people can forge strong relationships outside of a traditional family bond.Actually, I am a social butterfly! I went back to school at age 61, won a scholarship, went to Hawaii for the American Counseling Association Convention, have a poetry website with almost 15,000 hits, written my memoir, and am a dancer, singer, writer, etc....
>
> I often relate the story of a woman I know who was very active in a hobby club. She gave a lot to the club and was much loved in return. She wasn't married. Had no children. But her funeral was the most attended I have ever seen. They had to hold it up a couple of days so that everyone could come in from out of town. The place was not only packed, but it wasn't a pro forma sort of pay your respects. These were people who loved her and would miss her. Wow.....
>
> My point is that it is possible to build relationships outside of a romantic one. yes, I know. Is there anything you enjoy doing?Dancing, singing, writing.... Are there any clubs in your area that would involve things you enjoy doing? Not in my immediate area; although when I can I attend things I like...I went to hear Elie Wiesel (survivor of Auschwitz), and met an amazing man (I would have married him instantly and forgotten ALL about my t, believe it or not)...Elie Wiesel had written to me about my poetry; so honored and humbled.
em I've heard of astronomy clubs, doll clubs, dog clubs, knitting circles, dance groups, exercise clubs. I realize that religion is probably a sore spot for you, so I won't suggest that source of companionship. Thanks! LOL
>
> If you can't bear to tear yourself away from your therapist, maybe we can suggest ways for you to build a network of relationships apart from your therapist, so that you won't be solely relying on him?I am so resourceful, and have wracked my brain on how to get out there. I may go to a nice restaurant (trendy, upscale) in my area Friday night, but unfortunately...alone); I have been doing things alone all of my life.
Then you'll be able to make the choice that you think is healthiest for you.
>
> You seem to be an outgoing and gregarious person. What do you see are the obstacles to establishing other connections?I really don't know; if I had friends who would/could go out, I would be out every night, LOL, LOL
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by Nadezda on September 18, 2008, at 13:23:16
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself » Dinah, posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 13:07:28
Hi, Sassyfrancesca.
Could I ask why your friends can't go out? Can they talk on the phone? Lots of people find that even talking on the phone creates a sense of companionship-- or chatting online through gmail or yahoo, or one of the many chatlines.
I do wonder, though, if you couldn't find activities to do in the evening-- aren't there classes-- even very lowcost or free ones,-- in your area? Where I live is a bit unusual, but still there may be free reading groups and poetry-writing groups. Or you could start your own group-- reading or poetry-writing. There are so many people, I'd bet, who would love to find a good place to work on their writing.
If you do enjoy people's company, I'm sure there have to be ways of moving toward having more of that..
It does seem that having only one person whom you can depend on creates an awfully difficult situation for you.
Nadezda
Posted by sassyfrancesca on September 18, 2008, at 13:56:07
In reply to Re: T Touching Himself, posted by Nadezda on September 18, 2008, at 13:23:16
> Hi, Sassyfrancesca.
(Hi, Nadezda))): Most of my friends are married...you know how that is, and they don't live close.
>
> Could I ask why your friends can't go out? Can they talk on the phone? I spend tons of time talking on the phone; it is my life-saver, a way of staying connected.Lots of people find that even talking on the phone creates a sense of companionship-- or chatting online through gmail or yahoo, or one of the many chatlines.
I am a member of 2 other support groups AND a dating website.
>
> I do wonder, though, if you couldn't find activities to do in the evening-- aren't there classes-- even very lowcost or free ones,-- in your area?I returned to college (where I work) last year, but haven't taken a class this semester...if I flunk, I have to pay 1,000 dollars back, so am waiting a bit to see if I can get a higher paying job; I had an interview last week.
Where I live is a bit unusual, but still there may be free reading groups and poetry-writing groups. Or you could start your own group-- reading or poetry-writing.
That is an EXCELLENT suggestion; perhaps I will start my OWN poetry group. Thankyou!
There are so many people, I'd bet, who would love to find a good place to work on their writing.
>
> If you do enjoy people's company, I'm sure there have to be ways of moving toward having more of that..
>
> It does seem that having only one person whom you can depend on creates an awfully difficult situation for you. Absolutely.Hugs, Sassy...and thankyou!
>
> Nadezda
>
>
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