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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 13:51:13
Over the new year I worked very hard - I have some exams coming up - during the most of November and December I've been exceptionally motivated - I've been in a kind of positive 'bubble'. I felt good, optimistic about the future etc. Well for one reason or another that bubble has burst and I feel so depressed again, horrible :( It scares me actually because I need to stay focused but this depression really sucks the energy from me. I'm still working on my studies but feel dead inside. Why is it, when I start to feel better I just collapse again? I wish life could go a bit easier.
I'm not looking for any particular kind of response, just needed to share this - hope that's ok. I feel so alone with it. I should make an appointment with my pdoc again but I feel ashamed to admit that I feel so bad again - it's been 2 weeks now since the depression has crept back in and it's back to full strength - all I want to do is crawl into bed and hide. I wish I could be strong and manage on my own.
Witti
Posted by antigua3 on January 17, 2009, at 14:17:15
In reply to My bubble has burst, posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 13:51:13
You know it's OK to want to feel strong and manage on your own, but if you're feeling this badly, pls try to reach out for help from your pdoc. If the depression has returned full-blown, then something's up--in therapy, life or your body is out of whack.
I'm sorry you feel dead inside. I felt that way at Christmas, just going through the motions but feeling nothing inside. I'm over it now (glad the holidays are over, really), so remember that as easy as it is for me to say, the harder it is to realize when you're in the middle of it, that this will pass. But get help if you need it! You would recommend that to someone else, I know it, because you are so kind and caring.
Please take care,
antigua
Posted by stellabystarlight on January 17, 2009, at 14:33:25
In reply to My bubble has burst, posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 13:51:13
I, too am going through a severe depression and pain...feeling alone and empty...more than ever it seems. How my life looks on the surface is so different from how I feel inside. I feel condemned to feel empty and dark forever since it's been hardwired into me through all the pain and trauma I've experienced.
I hope I'm not depressing you further, Witti, but I feel less alone reading your post. I hope you feel the same way reading mine...otherwise I'm very sorry.
Do you have any interests that you've always wanted to take up? I'm going to try replacing my focus on depression and learn something new. I've always wanted to ski, so I've scheduled my first lesson for today. A box of new ski outfits came yesterday - I somehow managed to get excited about ski outfits (rare for me to get excited about anything these days), so I'm hopeful that this might relieve the emptiness.
I'm going to force myself to crawl out of bed and learn to fly down the snow covered mountain while feeling the cool breeze going through my hair. I hope this will lessen the pain. Wish me luck.
Stellabystarlight
Posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 16:33:55
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by stellabystarlight on January 17, 2009, at 14:33:25
Stella, it is comforting, thank you. I'm sorry you feel so down. Skiing is beautiful. I've been skiing a number of times in France and Switzerland. I love the feeling of whizzing down a mountainside. I love to go fast - it gives me a buzz. Don't be disheartened if you find it hard at first because it will come and when it does I'm sure you will be hooked!
Unfortunately I live in the flattest country in the world with no mountains so real skiing isn't an option. I'm following some courses since the new year - well I should say that was the idea but things have not gone so well. The problem is I am entering a different system - I come from England and now have to study in Dutch (a language I've only been learning properly for a few months) and the two education systems don't align so it's like jumping into a fog and is disheartening - my Dutch is quite good now but I'm not used to the type of language used in maths and chemistry, the courses I am following - it's not an everyday language and I'm the only foreigner in the class. I feel like an outsider and I feel stupid. I need to pass these courses in order to do the course I want to at university in September (I want to study medicine). I've given up on the lessons - I just can't follow them, so am studying at home with Dutch and English books and a dictionary - a lonesome mind-numbing task. I'm not used to struggling academically - it was my escape I think. I have to stay focused and not give in but this depression is creeping up on me. Maybe something is up in therapy too but I can't put my finger on it. I really want to achieve my goals but due to circumstance it is an uphill struggle at the moment. Another thing plaguing my mind at the moment is the feeling I am such a bad, flawed person I am not fit to walk this earth. If I go back to the pdoc it feels like I am confirming that. That sounds stupid I know but I felt he found me sicker than I am and I want to prove him wrong but it looks like despite my best efforts I'm going to go crawling back.
So, it is very much to do with circumstance - dreams and fears colliding.
Thanks for your message.
Witti
Posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 16:35:42
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by antigua3 on January 17, 2009, at 14:17:15
Thank you Antigua. I should - I'll probably write him an e-mail asking for an appointment. I hope it passes - I need to be strong, to fight it.
Witti
Posted by seldomseen on January 17, 2009, at 18:23:06
In reply to My bubble has burst, posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 13:51:13
I understand. Sometimes moods come in cycles regardless of what we do or don't do. Know that this period will end and you will feel okay again. No matter how much I wish it, I know I'm not going to feel 100% all the time - sometimes I struggle to hit 50%.
Until then, I know it is hard, but try to take good care of yourself and understand where you are. When I'm this way, I realize that I'm not going to move a mountain, but I might manage to get some laundry done and write a paragraph or two. I'm learning to relax against the way I feel rather than try to fight and claw my way
through it.Little milestones that keep you slowly and steadily progressing toward something, even if I feel like crap, seem to help.
I'm sorry for how you feel.
Peace to you.
Seldom
Posted by rskontos on January 17, 2009, at 21:03:35
In reply to My bubble has burst, posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 13:51:13
Witti,
when I feel like you do, i remember that i have come a long way. I remember the days of just taking a shower eluded me.
and as far as not thinking the world is good enough well I get that and I don't have a really good answer. it is enough that so many people in this world never reflect on themself. they go through this life thinking they are all this and a bag of chips and they are the very ones that need to self reflect. so be easy on yourself that you are trying to be a good productive person and improve yourself. enough said. you know really . you are kind giving and trying to do well. how much can be said about so many others that just suck air and move on.
so anyway, you are ok. right where you are. even if you never went ahead with your plans. even if you need your p-doc forever, even if you don't learn dutch. even if you stay just like you are. we like you just like you are.
change cause you want to. not cause you think you HAVE to.
you will be ok. the despair will lift.
take care,
(((((WITTI)))))))))rsk
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2009, at 12:48:20
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by rskontos on January 17, 2009, at 21:03:35
Been to Holland and yes it's flat. Switzerland isn't that far could you manage a day trip there? So clean for beautiful. I love Guyere and that Mountain that you take a train up and all the skiers are sunburned and very wealthy. It was a huge Mountain. No cars allowed . But the weather definitely effects my moods. Phillipa
Posted by Wittgensteinz on January 20, 2009, at 14:12:46
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by seldomseen on January 17, 2009, at 18:23:06
Thank you, Seldom. You're right, I should be realistic and take things as they come - things just go up and down. I should also be glad that I am more functional now in my dips than I was some months ago - then everything stopped.
Witti
Posted by Wittgensteinz on January 20, 2009, at 14:15:45
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by rskontos on January 17, 2009, at 21:03:35
Thank you Rsk,
What you wrote really helped to perk me up. I know I'm improving - I manage my dips better than in the past.
Thank you for reassuring me that I'm 'ok' :) I never feel I'm good enough - I guess I should figure that one out - also that sometimes it's just ok just to 'be'.
Witt
Posted by Wittgensteinz on January 20, 2009, at 14:22:02
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst, posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2009, at 12:48:20
Unfortunately it takes something like 15 hours or more to take a train from Holland to Switzerland, so it's definitely not a 'day thing' :) but you're right, it's a beautiful place.
We've had a very cold spell here which hasn't helped - it was cold enough to go skating on the lakes (it was around 5F a couple of weeks back at 100% humidity - and personally that's a bit cold for me). I should be happy - there were other parts of the country that went down to -4F!!
Today the sun has been shining - temperatures are up a bit - mood also up a bit. Still considering whether to arrange an appt. with pdoc. Why am I so resistant? I'm not that keen on meds I guess.
Thanks for your reply and the nice imagery of Switzerland.
Witti
Posted by Nadezda on January 20, 2009, at 15:23:38
In reply to My bubble has burst, posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 13:51:13
First of all, Witti, these stages of progress tend to take us to scary places, and we run back to what's familiar, and what protects us from the things we want-- and fear.
So, at one level, this happens. It's bad, but it does happen. Progress is a great thing-- and this is part of the progress-- it's a way of solidifying and reconfirming your commitment to it-- by testing it, making you refind it-- and strengthening your conviction that the old way isn't what you want for yourself. Of course it doesn't feel that way now-- but I think some time you'll look back and know it's all part of the same thing.
Just know that you'll keep on working and fighting your way out. And by all means go to your pdoc! It doesn't mattter what he thinks. What matters is what you're capable of-- and if getting more or different meds, or discussing how to handle this best is good for you-- this is about YOU-- not about him. And what you need, what will help you get what you want, help you move forward. Period.
And please: you are not stupid. Having a hard time intellectually is not a sign of stupidity-- you're taking on a lot.. You'll get more out of going than not going. So please, just GO. even if it feels bad-- it's still worth it. In the long run, if you just muddle through the bad feelings, even with your teeth clenched, you'll be better off-- and able to use this language sooner-- if you just put up with the misery-=- and go.
It's okay to feel awful. it's awful-- but it's okay. You'll get beyond this. And if there's something with your T-- maybe that too will be part of moving to the next part of the work. And you know what? if you give in to this and hide under the covers-- it's okay, too. This isn't going to stop you. It's temporary. And if surrendering to it, is the healthiest, most useful thing you can do-- ignore what I said above-- and give yourself a vacation from all this progress and optimism and hard work. Read a novel, do crossword puzzles, think about camp comfort. there might be a special session for everyone to visit you. I could use a sauna or a great gym right next to my room.
Nadezda
PS I'm sorry if this sounds rushed. I'll try to write later tonight too.
Posted by Nadezda on January 21, 2009, at 14:49:39
In reply to My bubble has burst, posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 13:51:13
I hope I wasn't too cavalier in my earlier post. I know that feeling awful can be immobilizing and worse. If my response was to be encouraging, it's because I've seen so much strength and so many capabilities in you, and know that you're working hard and deserve to move forward.
I'm very sorry that you're feeling so discouraged, and want to hide. And I know how much one tends to beat oneself up with the thought of how strong and successful and in control one should be. I feel it too and it is impossible at times to be hopeful and to see the better side of things.
I hope you do feel better soon-- and that you can tell your T and pdoc enough so they can help you. I feel very sure that they'd want to-- and that even if your pdoc has seemed less encouraging that you want, that it doesn't mean that you can't do all the things that you've planned. You don't need to accept whatever his thought is, to accept the help he can give you. I mean, I know it's hard to ask- and harder because of some of the things he's said-- but you need and deserve someone you can look to when things get hard.
Nadezda
Posted by wittgensteinz on January 22, 2009, at 15:37:33
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by Nadezda on January 21, 2009, at 14:49:39
Thank you Nadezda - I really appreciate your posts. You hit the nail on the head.
I'm going to write a fuller reply tomorrow (it's late at the moment and I'm very tired). My laptop is being repaired at the moment so I don't have as many opportunities to come on-line, hence the slow reply.
Witti
Posted by wittgensteinz on January 23, 2009, at 13:19:22
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by Nadezda on January 20, 2009, at 15:23:38
I've written to my pdoc. I should say, I think he is a nice man - I believe he is good. He seems far more involved and forthcoming than the last one I saw. The only reservation, and this is something my T saw too is that he seems to think I am iller than I am (or at least he thinks I am iller than my T thinks I am). That said, having seen the pdoc for a few months I came off the meds I was on and for the last 2 months was med free - save for the occasional seroquel. I hadn't felt the ADs were helping and I was on as high a dose as I could with them, so he let me taper off and I was fine and stayed fine. This is where I am now - back feeling rather like I had some time ago. I've written to him now and we'll see. When I saw him last he expressed surprise how well it was going with me but there was also caution - I opted to "contact him when I next needed an appointment".
I see the good in going back to something and not giving up but the experience I had was one of disillusionment and from my experience it is sometimes best to find another way. So I have a meeting with the school next week to find a good plan B. I've registered for the exams, so I'll take them in any case. The language course is going well.
I'm still pretty functional - still doing the most things I normally do. My bf has been ill so I've been doing extra the last couple of weeks in any case. I kind of wish I could crawl under a rock - that would be nice :).
As for camp comfort - a sauna would be nice (it's been very cold here) - lots of yummy food, constant supply of hot chocolate and marsh mallows.. hmmmm :)
Thanks for your words - they are motivating and strengthening. Realistically it's going to be a long while before I am 'better' - maybe I won't ever be fully 'better' - I'll always have my vulnerabilities. I hope in time I can find my place in society and be a reasonably fulfilled human being. Not much to ask, huh?!
Witti
Posted by wittgensteinz on January 23, 2009, at 13:32:09
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by Nadezda on January 21, 2009, at 14:49:39
The thing with me is that when I'm feeling 'down' it's not just a matter of depression - or just a matter of depression and anxiety. I get into these panics that will last for an hour or so where I feel completely helpless, dissociated, and suicidal - in these states I verge on delusional and am a danger to myself (not to others, just to myself because of the anger I feel toward myself) - for others they might not even notice anything is 'up', although my bf is very good at recognising these episodes. The last few days I've had this each evening while trying to get to sleep and I didn't know what to do with myself. It's a very scary place to be, even these states don't last that long. Afterwards it's very hard for me to understand what's happened. This is exactly what happened with the last OD - I woke up the next day in hospital and had great difficulty in remembering what and why it had happened. It's like entering an altered state of identity and reality - afterwards I remember it but as if I am observing as a 3rd person, I can't remember at all 'feeling it'.
Ok, I've gone on rather too much. I hope this doesn't all seem too weird.
Witti
Posted by stellabystarlight on January 23, 2009, at 15:45:54
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » stellabystarlight, posted by Wittgensteinz on January 17, 2009, at 16:33:55
Oh my gosh, Witti, I had no idea what you went through during your "down" cycle.
I feel so bad about my last post to you now. I hope you didn't feel as though I was
minimizing your struggles. I am so sorry for not understanding earlier.I hope you hear from your pdoc soon...it must be puzzling to have differing opinions
from your T and Pdoc, but it's not surprising since they come from different points of view.I think you are very functional and you should be so proud of yourself, Witti.
You blow me away with how you can articulate everything you're going through,
mentally and emotionally, even with all the challenges of school and "depression".
You seem to always make good choices in the end - such as writing to pdoc,
meeting with the school to find a good plan B, registering for exams, etc., and
writing - "...see the good in going back to something and not giving up but the experience
I had was one of disillusionment and from my experience it is sometimes best to find another way."And your replies are so grounded and appropriate...you're very generous with your posts.
I think you are such a cool and amazing person, Witti...and so young, too! :)And it's ok to want to crawl under a rock...I do it all the time and call it self-preservation.
I hope you can visit camp comfort soon and nurture yourself.By the way, I did go skiing, and it took me out of my "darkness" alright.
I had to completely focus on surviving...not falling off the lift and dying,
getting off the lift without causing a pile-up, not breaking my bones
while wildly skidding down on 2 sticks,not freezing to death in my stylish but
flimsy ski outfit, etc. But, boy was it ever fun! I loved it!
I was the last one to get off the mountain and went 3 times already.I was in a bad state that day, and reading your post made me feel not so alone.
So, I just decided to go...and now I have the ski bug and a fun challenge to look forward to.
Your post gave me the push I needed...I don't even know exactly how your post motivated me,
but I want to thank you, Witti. I'm going to really think about how and what in your post
got me to take action, and write to you later when I figure it out.I also hope in time we can find our place in society and be a reasonably fulfilled human being,
but I think you already are. :)Stellabystarlight
Posted by wittgensteinz on January 24, 2009, at 4:57:14
In reply to Re: My bubble has burst » Wittgensteinz, posted by stellabystarlight on January 23, 2009, at 15:45:54
Stella,
Good for you for getting on the slopes! I'd forgotten about the ski-lifts and how nerve-racking they can be the first time. The worst ones for me are the ones where you have to stick your skis in the outside and then hop in the gondala. More than once I got my skis in but didn't hop in on time so my skis went and I stayed! Luckily someone looked after them for me until I reached the top.I haven't skiied in 6 years but before I went 'real' skiing I did a lot of dry-slope skiing with the button lifts, which aren't as scary although can be very embarrassing if you muck up and go careering backwards down a slope! One day I will persuade my bf to come skiing with me. I think there are some indoor ski centres in the Netherlands so I should go with him one time.
I'm glad you had the confidence to do this and that it paid off, despite the cold and anxieties. No, I didn't feel minimised. I didn't really know how to explain what was happening and have been busy the last days trying to understand what exactly it is that goes on.
Anyway, happy skiing!
Witti
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