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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on March 14, 2005, at 12:58:24
And it frustrates the H*ll out of me.
She's 17. She's going to South America at the end of the week on a school trip. She has other scheduled activities every night this week, and most afternoons, a couple of make up tests and just regular homework to manage before she leaves. Plus there is shopping she and I need to do to get her ready. Her room looks like pictures I've seen of the London blitz.
Saturday night she couldn't attend a planned party because the weather was too awful. Instead of doing homework or laundry or making a list of what she needs to do to get ready, she spent the evening watching a movie and instant messaging her friends. I suggested that maybe she should start figuring out what she was going to take and make sure she did some laundry, and she agreed that this was a good idea, but of course nothing came of it. Yesterday she went to an out-of-town hockey game. Last night she was complaining about having a concert on Thursday night because it means she'll miss a school dance. She wants to skip the concert and go to the dance. She leaves on Friday morning. I don't think she has time to attend either one, although the concert isn't optional. When does she think she's going to pack? How could she even be thinking about a dance?
Not unpredictably, she called me from school this morning to tell me to cancel a tutoring session she has tomorrow afternoon because she's SO stressed out by all the work she has to do this week. And she now can't figure out how she and I can get shopping at all before she leaves. She sounded on the phone like she's ready to totally fall apart. It's as if it only just dawned on her that she had all this stuff going on this week.
A few months ago, she broke her hand playing basketball when she slipped on the court. I think she slipped on the court because the soles of her shoes were too worn. My husband had offered on at least 4 or 5 occasions over the winter to take her to get new basketball sneakers. Each time she cancelled out because there was something she wanted to do with her friends.
I've decided that she's totally incapable of denying herself a single social opportunity unless she has a conflict at exactly the same time. She's incapable of thinking more than one day ahead, unless of course she's trying to decide what she's going to do with her friends over the weekend. She's incapable of deciding that maybe she shouldn't go to the hockey game, for instance, since it will eat up the only otherwise unscheduled afternoon she has before she leaves.
What's most aggravating is that she stubbornly refuses to listen to any attempts to reason with her. She just blows me off and tells me I'm in a "bad mood."
It's easy enough to say it's her life and she has to learn this stuff for herself, but at some stage she'll have the inevitable meltdown because she's not ready for a test, or didn't get a paper done, or forgot to do her laundry, and if I don't jump in to help her, I'm unsupportive. In the meantime, she's turning our house into a dump and is always too busy to pitch in and help with anything.
She has an older brother who can talk my ear off explaining how he's planning to fit in everything he has to do over the next 2 weeks. He's constantly thinking about how to manage his time and he evaluates and then reevaluates what plans he makes. When he was in high school it wasn't at all unusual for me to find him working on a paper that wasn't due for several days.
My daughter thinks he got better grades than she does because he's brighter. I tell her it has much more to do with focus and priorities and organizational efforts and goal-setting.
It doesn't bother me at all that they're so different - she has wonderful qualities that he lacks and vice versa. What bothers me is that I end up having to pick up the pieces, and that it never occurs to her that doing simple things which are of little inconvenience might make both of our lives so much easier. It bothers me that she wants her brother's results without acknowledging his efforts. However, what bothers me most of all, is that she never ever does today what she somehow thinks she might have time to do tomorrow (but really doesn't).
Thanks for allowing me to rant.
Mair
PS: I'm no neat freak but it never ceases to amaze me how she could walk on top of (not, even step over) the clothing she's thrown on the floor without ever stooping to pick it up.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 15, 2005, at 13:53:34
In reply to My Daughter Totally Lives for the Moment (rant), posted by mair on March 14, 2005, at 12:58:24
As in (smiling with knowledge) 'and your point is?"
You are describing a 17 year old. Sure there are some who are more organized, but this is pretty common, too.
Mine would do all the same things. If she needed to shop for something and we agreed on Saturday she would sleep half the day, get on the phone and suddenly remember the shopping trip around 8pm.
It took forever to convince her that I didn't have to be at her beck and call. Arranging my schedule around her stuff? No problem. But don't ask me to drop what I'm doing and take you to the mall.
And her room? When we moved in the house she looked at her room and said 'ok, bed over there, dresser herre, couch over there and we can put the dance floor in the middle' because her room was so big. But within a few months the floor was covered, not to be seen for a few years.
The only thing that helped me was saying something like 'I have a few hours available on Thursday between X and Y if you need to go shopping. Otherwise you'll have to make do with what you have.'
And packing can be done in 10 or 15 minutes if it's all the time you have (I've done it in 5). It would help if she would put the things she wants to take in a separate pile, though.
Posted by stresser on March 15, 2005, at 20:48:39
In reply to Re: and? » mair, posted by AuntieMel on March 15, 2005, at 13:53:34
Hi,
I just read your post, and have a small smile on my face, as I think of my almost 17 year old daughter..... doing her homework downstairs. (No meltdown yet) Yes, I too have gotten those calls from school with that desperate stressed out voice demanding an appointment be cancelled, or lesson be re-scheduled. She's over-booked and not enough time keeping up with the social events, let alone PICKING UP THE CLOTHES ON THE FLOOR. It's like the flu bug. I have to admit my daughter is getting better about these things. She once told me that she didn't like to deal with "issues", and didn't until they were upon her. Through time we have worked with her and she is starting to look ahead somewhat; and prepare for what lies ahead in the near future. It's a struggel, I do know that. Frustrating? Yes. I too have a son that is the exact opposite and it's amazing to see that difference......my daughter always wants to blame someone else for her troubles. She never takes the blame! We are going through hell week, cheer try outs are next week......she has been doing this since 7th grade and will be DEVISTATED if she doesn't cheer her Senior year. Nerves are shambled, and I wish it were over with because it's really competitive at our school. I'm picking my battles this week with the bedroom....it's full of make-up, cloths, pictures, handbags, laundry baskets full of clean cloths to be put away....sound like fun? Nothing clean goes in until it gets picked up. Hang in there, you aren't alone at all. I'm happy to hear that I AM NOT ALONE OUT THERE.
Living for the moment? Yes they are! Has been, Still is, Probably will be for some time yet. -LPS Get this.....called home one day stressed out because the zipper broke on her Douney and Bourke purse. She wanted it mailed in THAT DAY to be repaired. What are we,... the repair dept...... Federal Express? Her dad about flipped. Is she the only girl in the world? I do think so. -L
Posted by mair on March 15, 2005, at 22:04:29
In reply to Re: and?, posted by stresser on March 15, 2005, at 20:48:39
I'm so depressed and nonfunctioning these days, but I sure got a laugh out of both posts.
Periodically I can't stand it and I decide I'm going to clean my daughter's room or bathroom (which is truly gross and disgusting). The clean clothes and dirty clothes are annoyingly intermixed, and when I grab the dirty clothes in her bathroom hamper (and hanging out and on the floor), I keep finding these heavy worn-once sweatshirts that unbalance my washer and take an age to dry. It's so much easier to throw something in the hamper than it is to put it in a closet. And just how long can you walk on top of a jacket lying on the floor without even kicking it off to the side? - Months, apparently.
The first inevitable meltdown came this afternoon with a tearful diatribe about her chem teacher who seems to think that she needs to make-up a test everyone else took about 6 weeks ago AND take the test everyone else will be taking this week. When I suggested that the hockey trip might not have been a smart choice I got this really dirty look and the comment "you know I need balance in my life." I also got the comment I was expecting about how just once it would be great if I agreed with her.
At some point in his junior or senior year, I started to notice that my son was automatically emptying the dishwasher when he came home from school. I keep looking for those subtle changes from her too.
We did have a cleaning person come into our house once, take a look at my son's room and ask us if he was doing one of those "abroad" programs. He used to clean his room and then he wouldn't let his friends in there to play because he didn't want them messing it up. My daughter, on the other hand, thinks nothing of exposing her pigpen to all of her friends, male and female alike.
God, I loved the story about the hand bag. My daughter is truly miffed at the moment because my husband will need to take her car tomorrow since he has to go out of town and his car seems too unreliable to risk taking on a longer trip. She can't drive his, because it has a stick shift and he can't take mine, because it too needs some repair work before I dare have him take it any distance, so she'll either have to let me drive her to school, or she'll have to take my car and suffer the extreme embarrassment of showing up in a minivan. She can't believe we're inconveniencing her so much.
Mair
Posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 8:52:50
In reply to Thanks Guys - Mel and Stresser, posted by mair on March 15, 2005, at 22:04:29
My daughter's first car was the minivan I drove for hears before that. It was a stick shift named dimples (I got it cheap - hail damaged.) I wasn't about to get her anything new till she had more practice, which turned out to be a good move as she kept hitting non-moving things like posts.
The other good thing about it being the 'first' was that it had a tendency to overheat so I knew she wouldn't go far.
I've got to give her credit here. She didn't complain about dimples for a good while and even had fun in it 'cause it could carry a lot of kids.
Even though she went to a high school with a parking lot full of BMWs, etc. One girl she knew got a brand new mustang for her 16th birthday. She got mad at her dad because it wasn't the porche she wanted so - get this - dad took it back!
She complained a lot at first about having to drive a stick (nobody else does) but she changed her mind pretty quick when all the boys thought she was cool for being able to drive it.
Posted by stresser on March 16, 2005, at 11:47:49
In reply to Re: status and teens, posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 8:52:50
My daughter once called her car a "piece of crap", and re-thought that comment after we took it away for several weeks. (I drove it myself, because it's ours, really) She now "loves that car", and will emmiediatly do what we say when I mention taking it away again. There are many kids who drive mustangs, a couple BMW's etc. at her school. We live in a town with two major automobile factories and headquarters, so new cars are what most kids see around here. That's not normal, and I hate that my children are growing up thinking that the rest of the world is like this. We travel and they see that it isn't, but it hasn't hit that part of their brains yet. I am doing my best not to contribute to this fanatsy world here in this small town.
Now, to make you feel better today....I just walked into the queens room and I see empty bags from clothing stores, clothes on the floor, tags, papers, glue, old backpacks, laundry basket (still there), shoes !!!!!!, (can't walk because of them) sheets -not on the bed. I can't go back in there........too stressfull. Oh, and there's powder on EVERYTHING. She poweder the heck out of her body every morning.
Now, my sons room.....he didn't make his bed, but that's about it, and he has some laundry to put away. He will do that tonight, because I just put it there late last night. As he gets older things will probably change, but I know I must enjoy each one for what they are. I wouldn't trade them for anything........Today.
-L
Posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 12:21:12
In reply to Re: status and teens, posted by stresser on March 16, 2005, at 11:47:49
Are you sure we don't have the same kid?
We had moved to one area when my son was small because the schools were better. When my daughter got to high school age (they are 10 years apart) the area, apart from my neighborhood and a couple of others, were darned scarey.
We went to the parent's meeting for new freshmen and out of a possible 1200 (right, big school) sets of parents there were maybe, if I stretch it, 200 sets of parents there.
The next week we went house hunting. The week after that we had a contract on a new house.
She went from a school where she had as much as or more than most of the kids to one where she was in the middle. Major adjustment.
But she has seen lots of folks with a lot less, and she has traveled (her first overseas trip was to Poland when she was 12) so she does at least know she's lucky.
It didn't stop the drama or get the clothes picked up, though. Now she's at college and the living room and kitchen stay clean but her bedroom is just like home except it's smaller so the pile is deeper.
Posted by mair on March 16, 2005, at 16:10:03
In reply to Re: status and teens » stresser, posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 12:21:12
Although I'm sure my daughter thinks the minivan is uncool, I think the bigger issue is that parking is very scarce at her school - mostly just parallel parking on the street. I think I passed my "can't parallel park worth beans" genes along to her. Although she is not a morning person by any stretch, she gets herself out of the house early these days so she can get a parking space without really having to squeeze herself between 2 cars.
Last summer we bought a very used and inexpensive passat for both of my kids to use, but since my son is at college, my daughter gets pretty much unfettered use of it. I do have to remind her that it's not "her" car. Maybe if she was maintaining it and paying the insurance .... but that's just one of my pipe dreams.
I'd love it if my daughter could drive a stick shift because I really prefer them. My son had to learn on one because it's all we had then and it did make him feel very superior to his friends. A couple of years ago, before she drove, she and I were going somewhere in my husband's car. She went out into the garage before I came out and leaned over to turn the ignition on because god knows, she can't spend 5 seconds in the car without the radio - she knew nothing of clutches and the car lurched forward into the garage wall taking out some plastic shelving on the way. I think that was the beginning of the end for her with sticks. She went out once with my husband when she was learning how to drive but he gave her a big lecture about being careful with his car and she never got beyond the first stall-out.
mair
On the other hand, I might think it worth it to be paying for all the car expenses if it meant that I never had to buy her another piece of clothing and thus, never again had to walk into an Abercrombie, American Eagle, Banana Republic, Polo outlet or any of the more boutique like stores that sell gazillion dollar jeans.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 16:33:00
In reply to Re: status and teens, posted by mair on March 16, 2005, at 16:10:03
that paying all the car expenses meant never having to say abercrombie again.
how's her trip prep going?
Posted by stresser on March 18, 2005, at 20:10:49
In reply to Re: I wish » mair, posted by AuntieMel on March 16, 2005, at 16:33:00
I really like this "Parents Board".
Thanks everyone! -L
Posted by mair on March 21, 2005, at 12:56:24
In reply to Re: I wish, posted by stresser on March 18, 2005, at 20:10:49
I spent hours yesterday cleaning my daughter's room and the bathroom she uses. She's now away for the week and I just couldn't stand it anymore. It took hours, and I really didn't clean anything - I never even got to the vacuuming and dusting stage. I just organized her closet and picked up the hundreds of pieces of clothing on her floor and washed everything that I couldn't verify as being clean. I collected about 10 recyclable plastic and glass bottles, and threw away about a hundred gum wrappers. (I hate seeing her chew gum)
My daughter has 2 closets in her room. One is a storage closet chock full of an assortment of "stuff." I didn't attempt to do much with that closet other than clean it out enough that the door could close. In one of my daughter's innumberable handbags, I found a partially empty bottle of Chivas Regal and a couple of colored water bottles, each of which had some scotch in them. I have no idea where she got the scotch, although she could easily have gotten it out of our liquour cabinet. My husband and I rarely drink hard liquour, but we've got stuff like this on hand for guests. We're in there so rarely that I'd probably never notice if anything was gone.
I'm pretty sure my daughter isn't drinking regularly, so I'm not too concerned that i have a budding alchoholic. That aside, obviously I don't want her drinking and certainly not providing alchohol to her friends and certainly not getting in a car after she's been drinking.
I'm really lousy at dealing with stuff like this because I just dislike disciplining my kids, and really don't have a good sense of appropriate punishment. Mostly I haven't had to - they've been amazingly responsible socially and basically trustworthy. And I don't want to tell my husband who tends to overreact to things. But obviously I can't ignore this.
I wonder how long it'll take her to figure out that the bag isn't there anymore. I guess it depends on how long the bottle has been there since she last used it.
Any suggestions.
Mair
Posted by stresser on March 22, 2005, at 18:35:32
In reply to How do I deal with this?, posted by mair on March 21, 2005, at 12:56:24
Mair,
How I remember hiding bottles of Southern Comfort under the car seat when I was 17/18 years old. I'm sure she's not ready for AA, just being like most teanagers, unfortunately. If it were my daughter, I would certainly ask her about it, because you don't want her drinking and driving. I don't expect my kids to not want to try those things, because I did, and it was a lot of fun. What I do expect, and they know it, and hear it (just tonight, in fact) is that there will be no driving after drinking. So far my daughter doesn't drink, and is very verbal about how she feels when her friends do so. When they decide they are going to drink, she does something else, or stays home. I don't think my son will feel the same way. Sigh! That's a post later on down the road.
Your daughter is in the majority when it comes to drinking, so I don't think you should panic. Turning a blind eye may not be the solution or the wisest thing either. I can emagine how upset you, are especailly because she's not at home. This will give you some time to think, and maybe talk to your husband. (even though you don't want to do that)
My daughters psychologist told me once, that if "we don't pull the rug out from under our daughter's feet, the world will do it for us".
I have found that this is so true, and since then we have taken the car away several times. That seems to get her the most!
The saga continues... -L
Posted by mair on March 22, 2005, at 21:18:00
In reply to Re: How do I deal with this? » mair, posted by stresser on March 22, 2005, at 18:35:32
maybe I'm depression-numb, but I'm not that upset - more annoyed. And we're getting such glowing emails from her, that it would be hard to stay upset anyway. She sounds so happy, and more amazing - so enthusiastic.
I'm pretty sure my son never went to a high school party, at least until the very end. He's the type who would just be afraid to do anything that might screw things up for him later. We had a few battles over the car - all related to him not getting home on time during a period when he was dating a girl who was a couple of years older than him. My daughter is a little smarter about it. She doesn't always get home when she's supposed to, but she always calls beforehand, and tells us exactly why she's late. Of course my son never had a cell phone then either - they make all the difference - and I'm probably more relaxed now that I've been through this before.
My son was such a straight arrow in high school and has always been so achievement oriented, but then again, he's sort of a walking anxiety disorder too, so I'm not sure it wouldn't have been better for him to cut loose a little in high school. My daughter is so much more social and not at all the perfectionist. She stresses out about school alot, but not enough to have it interfere with her social life. She's just more emotionally balanced. She also thinks her brother missed out on too many important high school experiences, by being so anti-social, which I guess includes the experience of occasionally drinking. Obviously, she feels a greater need to miss out on nothing.
I won't let this slide - I'll figure out what's going on and hopefully respond appropriately, particularly, if, as you say, there's any driving involved in this at all. But I guess it's hard for me to jump all over behavior which I certainly engaged in, although my husband who is much more likely overreact, at least where she is concerned, was much more of a wild child than I ever was.
I've always bought into the MADD line about telling your kids that you'll come pick them up anywhere anytime. The problem is that my daughter sort of seems to think this means that it's ok to drink as long as she tells us that it's happening and assures us that she's not driving or getting into a car with anyone who has been drinking. (this is based on one conversation we had about a party that fortunately never happened) I don't like her assumption that we somehow won't mind if she's honest, but I also don't want her to decide that it's just easier to drink and lie about it. So we walk a fairly fine line.
I tend to think that the 21 year old drinking age drives teenage drinking underground and deprives adults of the opportunity to teach kids how to drink responsibly. (this is coming from someone who almost never drinks) I tend to think the Europeans are a little saner and more realistic. On the other hand, I do live in the US and certainly don't want my kids ending up at parties which might get busted, and it would be easier if my daughter had your daughter's attitude.
mair
Posted by stresser on March 23, 2005, at 17:16:23
In reply to Re: How do I deal with this? » stresser, posted by mair on March 22, 2005, at 21:18:00
I don't know how long my daughter's attitunde will last, so don't hold you breath too long...wherever you are. I do think there is something to the way the Europeans look at drinking, because fewer people over there abuse it. I wish it were that way here.....drinking age should be 18, and driving should be 21 for a couple of years. I wonder how that would work????? You just never know what's lies in the future for you.-L
Posted by greenhornet on April 8, 2005, at 20:49:13
In reply to Re: How do I deal with this? » mair, posted by stresser on March 23, 2005, at 17:16:23
> I don't know how long my daughter's attitunde will last, so don't hold you breath too long...wherever you are. I do think there is something to the way the Europeans look at drinking, because fewer people over there abuse it. I wish it were that way here.....drinking age should be 18, and driving should be 21 for a couple of years. I wonder how that would work????? You just never know what's lies in the future for you.-L
-------------------
A couple of suggestions from a mother who raised six:
1. Clothes left on the floor get taken away.
2. No driving until we, the parents, decided the particular son was responsible -- and could pay for his own insurance. (They all got their drivers licsense at a different age -- from 18 to 22.)
Just because the State allows driving at a certain age does not mean the parents must.
3.Where are these clothes that they throw around coming from? You -- then stop it. Their own money? Cut it off.
4. Too many "actives?" Our sons were limited to two "non academics" per school year. (Different sports of course, since they are ususlly seasonal.
5. Two no's -- "NO you cannot _____" and KNOW where your son or daughter is at all times and with whom. (No traveling with peers the parents don't know face to face.
6 Church of your choice TOGETHER every week.
It seems to have worked. They all grew up undamaged, educated and sober. They also tell us how grateful they are for the way we raised them.
Posted by stresser on April 12, 2005, at 12:59:38
In reply to Re: How do I deal with this?, posted by greenhornet on April 8, 2005, at 20:49:13
We are having quite a time with our daughter right now. She is demanding that she go "away" to a state college after her senior year, and we say if she doesn't mature, she will go here in town for the first year. You can emagine how this is going over. My head hurts. She is a junior, so we do have time, and she has time to grow up, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. Emotionally, she's around the age of 10, and my 13 yr old son would do better away at college right now than she would.
I really do feel for you parents, when I go to bed at night, I am emotionally drained! I don't know what part of the word "no", she doesn't understand. She will figure it out, someday! I just don't know when. Until then.....she will keep hearing NO NO NO NOnononononono.-L
Posted by AuntieMel on April 12, 2005, at 14:56:38
In reply to Re: How do I deal with this?, posted by stresser on April 12, 2005, at 12:59:38
Of course I don't know your daughter.... but:
My rotton, temper tantrum throwing, selfish, slob, not studious daughter told us she didn't think she was 'ready' to go away. Her therapist told her she wasn't 'emotionally stable' enough.
We fired the therapist and told her she was ready.
I'm a *firm* believer in away college. It gives the kids a chance to mature and test the maturity while still being in a semi-sheltered environment.
We all agreed on a smaller state college with a good teacher/student ratio. She liked it because it was on it's own little island with it's own little private beach, with bigger beaches nearby. We insisted she live the first 2 years on campus, but the on-campus housing is nice.
The first year was tough for all of us as she grew (thank heavens for unlimited sprint-to-sprint) and her grades weren't great (Bs and Cs) but I'm glad she did it. Last semester she got a 3.4 - including an A in anatomy.
I don't think this would have happened if she'd stayed at home.
Posted by stresser on April 18, 2005, at 16:33:49
In reply to Re: I disagree with you on this one » stresser, posted by AuntieMel on April 12, 2005, at 14:56:38
We have thought about that. A small college would be the best thing for her, but she is insisting on a large college. We can't get her to think about what she may be interested in doing. I see no motivation, and that's the problem. We just don't want to throw money away for an experiment. Believe me, I would love for her to be able to go away, she needs to do that. Being bipolar II, she is having problems with handling emotions and everyday issues. We have spend four months trying to get her medications right, and so far, I don't think things are going as well as any of us thought they would be by now. We're taking it day by day. -L
Posted by AuntieMel on April 18, 2005, at 17:49:22
In reply to Re: I disagree with you on this one, posted by stresser on April 18, 2005, at 16:33:49
Well, maybe a smallish college is the perfect compromise between stay-at-home and huge-state.
There really isn't a huge hurry to figure out what she's interested in doing. The first year or so is core stuff that applies to all majors.
Posted by stresser on April 20, 2005, at 22:45:54
In reply to My Daughter Totally Lives for the Moment (rant), posted by mair on March 14, 2005, at 12:58:24
Mair, Just wanted to check in with you because I haven't seen any posts lately, and I hope you are doing okay. We have had one more handbag drama, (can't let anyone down, you know?)
One more thing.....so you don't feel left out. I have been told several times, that I am "immature".
I guess we don't have enough mirrors in our house! -L
Posted by AuntieMel on April 22, 2005, at 15:06:35
In reply to Mair: How are you doing?, posted by stresser on April 20, 2005, at 22:45:54
This is the end of the thread.
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