![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rigby on October 24, 2004, at 18:48:37
Hi All,
I posted a few days ago about my situation above. I left a voicemail for my therapist on Friday to talk and she returned it yesterday.
To summarize:
I told her that I wasn't happy with how things went and she said that yes, things ended poorly. I said I was mistrustful of her and was having a hard time wrapping my mind around doing therapy with someone who would make a nasty unsupportive remark, that I thought she showed her true colors and that they couldn't be un-shown now.
She said she thought it was an "unfortunate mistake" but that I was over-reacting. How could I throw three years away for one comment?
I said given the stress level in my life right now, I didn't have a lot of room for "unfortunate mistakes" from my therapist. I agreed that I may be over-reacting but I also believe in my instincts. And if she wants me to think about over reacting I want her to think about why she made such a remark. I said I would not walk away from the situation thinking the responsibility was solely on *my* shoulders.
She asked for me to come in to talk further. I said that I would not process her mistake on my dime. And that if we were going to talk we would do so on the phone.
We talked for about fifteen minutes. I said that I thought she was being unprofessional and unsupportive. She said, again, that I was over-reacting and that her remark was not "so out there."
I said there was absolutely no benefit for that remark to me in my therapy. She didn't argue, but came back to it being an "unfortunate mistake."
She pushed for me to confirm coming in. I said no. We talked some more and she again asked if she should assume I'd be there and I said no.
And that's how it's ended.
It's interesting to play with how it feels to be done with therapy with her. Lots of interesting things to think about. I never intended to be "in therapy" for my life and it's interesting to me now how okay it feels to consider being done. It's not how I like to end things but, who cares? I thought about that: what do I care if it ends on a sour note? I'm not her friend. She's not mine. It feels kinda powerful, actually. I'm not so sure I need her anymore. An odd way to come around to that potentiality but it may be so.
Anyway,not sure how I'll feel in the week to come but it'll be interesting to see.
Any comments or advise would of course be appreciated and thanks for all the advise so far!
Posted by stresser on October 24, 2004, at 19:47:19
In reply to Update, posted by Rigby on October 24, 2004, at 18:48:37
Wow, I should say you did a fine job with that situation! congrat. I don't know if I could have done it so well. Maybe you don't need her, or maybe you may want to see another therapist at a later date? I am sitting here with my mouth open because I can't believe she doesn't think her remark was so "out there". Ha, ya it was. It was unprofessional. -L
Posted by crushedout on October 24, 2004, at 20:01:19
In reply to Re: Update, posted by stresser on October 24, 2004, at 19:47:19
wow, rigby, that sounds intense. the really amazing thing about the story is that i have a feeling she's probably MUCH more upset about the way things ended (and the fact that they did) than you are. at least, right now, anyway. (maybe it will hit you later. i hope not.)good of you to stick to your guns. i don't think saying that you "overreacted" sounds very therapeutic, either.
Posted by Bent on October 24, 2004, at 20:01:41
In reply to Update, posted by Rigby on October 24, 2004, at 18:48:37
I think you handled it well. Sounds like you directly conveyed your feelings and that's great. It bothers me that she would repeatedly say you were over-reacting. I think you have to go with your gut feeling. And maybe your feelings will change in a week or two, but if you dont feel that you can trust her maybe you can see someone else? Easier said than done, I know. Trust is important. These are tough decisions. Good luck.
Posted by crushedout on October 24, 2004, at 20:23:16
In reply to Re: Update » Rigby, posted by Bent on October 24, 2004, at 20:01:41
Posted by tryingtobewise on October 24, 2004, at 22:45:15
In reply to Update, posted by Rigby on October 24, 2004, at 18:48:37
Good job! I think you'll be proud that you followed your instinct and acted on your own behalf! Should you decide down the road that more therapy is in order, there are lots of Ts out there who I'm sure would not make "unfortunate" self serving comments.
Kim
Posted by Rigby on October 25, 2004, at 10:32:08
In reply to Re: Update, posted by stresser on October 24, 2004, at 19:47:19
Thanks, Stresser. I'm still feeling okay around it. We'll see!
> Wow, I should say you did a fine job with that situation! congrat. I don't know if I could have done it so well. Maybe you don't need her, or maybe you may want to see another therapist at a later date? I am sitting here with my mouth open because I can't believe she doesn't think her remark was so "out there". Ha, ya it was. It was unprofessional. -L
Posted by Rigby on October 25, 2004, at 10:43:13
In reply to Re: Update » stresser, posted by crushedout on October 24, 2004, at 20:01:19
Hey Crushed. Thanks for writing. I'm still feeling alright. While it's on my mind on and off it's not weighing on me hugely. Part of me wonders if I've tapped out this therapist's abilities or something too--anyway, I have been thinking and truly evaluating how much more I could benefit from her (if I could get back to trusting her but that's a big if.) You make a great point about her "over reacting" comment--how completely invalidating was that.
The weird thing now is like I started out in therapy for a very specific thing--and then it just kept going and going and going. It's morphed into the forever thing and this feels like an opportunity to just stop and evaluate. Which I'm doing.
> wow, rigby, that sounds intense. the really amazing thing about the story is that i have a feeling she's probably MUCH more upset about the way things ended (and the fact that they did) than you are. at least, right now, anyway. (maybe it will hit you later. i hope not.)
>
> good of you to stick to your guns. i don't think saying that you "overreacted" sounds very therapeutic, either.
>
Posted by Rigby on October 25, 2004, at 10:46:25
In reply to Re: Update » Rigby, posted by Bent on October 24, 2004, at 20:01:41
Hi Bent. Yeah, I was thinking about the over reacting comment and it feels pretty darn invalidating. She's done this before--messed up and not taken responsibility. I had more feelings for her then, I was in a state of transference so felt less confident about what was real. Now I won't back down. I want her to take on what's hers. I'm not sure I would go into therapy again. This is an opportunity now for me to think, specifically, of why I was in therapy the past two years. Maybe I need a break or something. Lots to mull. Anyway, thanks for your post--much appreciated.
> I think you handled it well. Sounds like you directly conveyed your feelings and that's great. It bothers me that she would repeatedly say you were over-reacting. I think you have to go with your gut feeling. And maybe your feelings will change in a week or two, but if you dont feel that you can trust her maybe you can see someone else? Easier said than done, I know. Trust is important. These are tough decisions. Good luck.
Posted by fires on October 25, 2004, at 11:29:01
In reply to Update, posted by Rigby on October 24, 2004, at 18:48:37
Posted by shrinking violet on October 25, 2004, at 17:08:13
In reply to Re: Update » Bent, posted by Rigby on October 25, 2004, at 10:46:25
Wow, I can relate to your situation in general; I've had a similar one with my T (posted somewhere above, I won't repeat too much here). You handled things a lot better than I am/have, though! Congrats! While I decided to end with her (for good this time), I sent her a final email and probably gave her more credit than she deserved, and I didn't tell her how badly she made me feel and why, BUT I also believe my T genuinely cared and tried as hard as she could, and anything she did "wrong" wasn't intentional in any way. I think I was too much for her to handle, and she either couldn't or wouldn't see that and accept her limitations. I've had similar instances with my T where she would say something very hurtful; she never really apologizes either, which bothers me. I think she thinks that I'm overreacting (i.e. I must be wrong b/c I'm the patient), and she tends to see and react to things in me that aren't even there. When I have directed anger at her, I've always apologized for it, sometimes multiple times. It bothers me a lot that she can't or won't do the same.
But, she is a wonderful person and she genuinely wants to help...it's so hard to fault her for trying so hard.
*sigh*
Just wanted to tell you I can relate, and that I think you handled it very well. Good luck in figuring out where to go from here. Take care.
-SV
Posted by mandinka on October 25, 2004, at 20:03:30
In reply to Re: Update, posted by shrinking violet on October 25, 2004, at 17:08:13
Does your therapist have a supervisor? Is she in therapy herself? How much therapy did she have? If she projects onto you and doesn't take responsibility for her actions then that is not a good sign, SV...
Posted by mandinka on October 25, 2004, at 20:09:25
In reply to Re: Update » Bent, posted by Rigby on October 25, 2004, at 10:46:25
Moralizing is very counterproductive in therapy - not to mention damaging. Looks like she's in countertransference with you. Please check out my post for SV.
Posted by Rigby on October 26, 2004, at 16:05:28
In reply to Re: Update, posted by shrinking violet on October 25, 2004, at 17:08:13
Hi S.V.,
Thanks for your message. May I ask how long you've been out of your situation? And how are you feeling without this therapist in your life now?
For me, I think my therapist has cared but I also think she had judged me harshly. It's hard to integrate the two realities.
> Wow, I can relate to your situation in general; I've had a similar one with my T (posted somewhere above, I won't repeat too much here). You handled things a lot better than I am/have, though! Congrats! While I decided to end with her (for good this time), I sent her a final email and probably gave her more credit than she deserved, and I didn't tell her how badly she made me feel and why, BUT I also believe my T genuinely cared and tried as hard as she could, and anything she did "wrong" wasn't intentional in any way. I think I was too much for her to handle, and she either couldn't or wouldn't see that and accept her limitations. I've had similar instances with my T where she would say something very hurtful; she never really apologizes either, which bothers me. I think she thinks that I'm overreacting (i.e. I must be wrong b/c I'm the patient), and she tends to see and react to things in me that aren't even there. When I have directed anger at her, I've always apologized for it, sometimes multiple times. It bothers me a lot that she can't or won't do the same.
>
> But, she is a wonderful person and she genuinely wants to help...it's so hard to fault her for trying so hard.
>
> *sigh*
>
> Just wanted to tell you I can relate, and that I think you handled it very well. Good luck in figuring out where to go from here. Take care.
>
> -SV
Posted by Rigby on October 26, 2004, at 16:06:56
In reply to Re: Update, posted by mandinka on October 25, 2004, at 20:09:25
Hi Mandinka. I have a hard time thinking she's in some sort of countertransference just because I feel so *not* transferred onto her at this point! But you could very well be right. Thanks for your post and support.
> Moralizing is very counterproductive in therapy - not to mention damaging. Looks like she's in countertransference with you. Please check out my post for SV.
Posted by shrinking violet on October 26, 2004, at 16:53:17
In reply to For shrinking violet » shrinking violet, posted by mandinka on October 25, 2004, at 20:03:30
>> Does your therapist have a supervisor?
Yes, she has a director. From what I understand he knows quite a bit about my case and situation, but I'm not sure how much (if at all) she tells him of "how" she "does" therapy, or what exactly goes on in the room (as far as what she does or says). She ahs also told me a few times that she has consulted with other psychs about my case, but each time she's only said that the consultants have told her to just be patient and that my relationship with her plays an important role in the therapy. Again, I only know what she tells me, and the consultants only know what she tells them, so I am not sure how specific she was, and I doubt that she would admit any possible wrong-doing on her part (almost non-existent boundaries, possible counter-transference issues, possibly being too emotionally invested, etc).
>>Is she in therapy herself? How much therapy did she have?
She has told me she was in therapy, but I'm not sure for how long. She was in an traumatic accident when she was sixteen which left her in a wheelchair; she said she tried therapy twice, but it didn't work out. Then, the third time, was much better, and I think that may have been therapy as part of her training to be a LICSW, but am not sure.
>>If she projects onto you and doesn't take responsibility for her actions then that is not a good sign, SV...
I know, but I have no way of knowing for sure if she is "projecting" or if she has issues of her own. It's possible that I'm misreading the situation. I know I bear a lot of responsibility for our problems given that I couldn't even talk to her and *that* was a huge issue for her which is somewhat understandable, at least. She IS human after all, and has a right to become frustrated and invested in helping someone; does *every* reaction or statement or feeling have to have an ulterior motive? ;) *sigh* We can go round and round and back and forth and always come up with new reasonings and possibilities. Thanks for your thoughts.
Posted by shrinking violet on October 26, 2004, at 17:00:50
In reply to Re: Update » shrinking violet, posted by Rigby on October 26, 2004, at 16:05:28
>> Hi S.V., Thanks for your message. May I ask how long you've been out of your situation?
It will be two weeks tomorrow since our last session. I emailed her that night that I thought we should end things, but she emailed me back and asked me to think about it and try again; quitting as a reaction to an unpleasant session is nothing new, and I think she figured I'd eventually go back, just like the other times. Then last Thursday I emailed her one last time and finalized it. That's the last contact I've had with her. :(
>>And how are you feeling without this therapist in your life now?Well, as I mentioned, it's still very new, so I'm still hurt and confused and saddened by it all. It's more confusing because, as two people, we seemed to have a strong connection and a genuine caring and liking for each other. But, therapeutically, we just didn't mesh at all. I don't even really miss the therapy (in fact, this experience has just pretty much confirmed my suspicions about therapy all along), but I really miss her a lot, and it's hard not really having had any closure after over a year with her. It seems to hurt more each day, instead of less.
>> For me, I think my therapist has cared but I also think she had judged me harshly. It's hard to integrate the two realities.Yes it is hard when there's such a dichotomy in the relationship. I know my T cared as well (maybe too much), but she is who she is, just like I am the way I am, and if she had problems with MY silences and MY reactions, then how could I ever change with her? It's hard to swallow though...I still want to blame myself totally and it's hard to believe that she played a role in this too.
Have you thought as to whether you will try again with this T? Or another?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.