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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2004, at 22:45:56
I am a boundary pusher. I am not proud of that. No doubt it has a lot to do with me not knowing myself and my limits and my boundaries very well. I guess what I really want is to find a T with nice boundaries so when I push and flutter around they are there nice and stable and hopefully some of that will rub off on me.
I am worried about T1's boundaries. She said she'd need to talk to her supervisor about whether she could see me regularly or not, but to the best of my knowledge she hasn't done that - she is just seeing me weekly regardless.
I think that she is supposed to have maybe hour long sessions. They have started to become one and a half hours as a matter of routine, and last week we went for two hours and didn't finish till half past five and everyone else had left the office.
She doesn't seem to mind about T2 and doesn't seem to mind that I am not going to tell him about her.
I am worried because it seems to me like she is going around all the rules and typical ways things are done for me. I feel flattered that she would do that, and maybe I fantasise about my T really caring about me (as opposed to just being paid to see me) - but I am worried about boundaries. About how there are good reasons for them.
About how the most important reason is to prevent burn out. I am worried that she will burn out with me. I might be interesting to see when I am in a good place, but I can be draining as hell when I am not.
Should I tell her (in the nicest possible way)?
Should I terminate her (in the nicest possible way)?
Should I slap my hands for being a T timer???
Posted by mandinka on October 26, 2004, at 1:57:49
In reply to Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2004, at 22:45:56
Here's the question: Is your T1 a rescuer? That would not be good. Why does she shower you with attention like that? I don't mind a T that cares but the question is WHY does she care? Is she fulfilling her own needs? Have you fallen into her blind spot? Before you decide what to do maybe you should talk to her about your doubts, alexandra. I sincerely hope you'll find a rock-steady T. :)
BTW, I don't think it's a good idea to keep T2 in the dark about T1 and I wonder why T1 doesn't mind you doing that. Hmmm...
Posted by pegasus on October 26, 2004, at 11:12:21
In reply to Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2004, at 22:45:56
I agree that this sounds like some serious boundary fuzziness. And it's great that you recognize that this could be problematic for your therapy, even though I'm sure it feels good to get extra time and attention from your T. I used to love when my T went over time. But it did sometimes make me feel bad, then, when we ended on time. Overall, I know it was better for me when we stuck to the agreed upon time frame, because then I couldn't read anything into the actual timing that was used.
Anyway, I would really hope that you would talk to your T about your concerns about boundaries. I think that in general whenever some issue comes up in therapy, the most direct and helpful way to deal with it is to talk to the T. Assuming, of course, that you like your T and want to stay with her otherwise.
pegasus
Posted by tryingtobewise on October 26, 2004, at 15:13:01
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by pegasus on October 26, 2004, at 11:12:21
Just to play devil's advocate...maybe she is just very laid back, enjoys working with you, and is not inclined to be a clock watcher. I totally agree that if it makes you uncomfortable then you should address it. On the other hand, it is free extra therapy, it is not your job to monitor her time or worry about whether or not she is burned out, so you could decide to make the most of it!
Kim
Posted by alexandra_k on October 26, 2004, at 18:58:32
In reply to Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by alexandra_k on October 25, 2004, at 22:45:56
Thankyou all for your responses and advice. I think that I will send her an email about my concerns. But I will have to think hard about how to be diplomatic, and let her know that I do appreciate everything that she has done / is doing for me.
I think that she is not a clock watcher, and she looked a lot suprised and a little embarrased when she saw what time we finished last week. Maybe this is something that she has been thinking about too and maybe she will be glad that I raise it. I think that I would prefer a typical timeframe for sessions - otherwise I do try to read too much into it. And yes, if she only saw me for an hour next week I would wonder what on earth I had done wrong.
Thanks all.
Posted by Joslynn on October 27, 2004, at 8:53:10
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by alexandra_k on October 26, 2004, at 18:58:32
That sounds like a good plan. I tend to read a LOT into any sort of departure from the norm of therapy too. Even subtle boundary crossings ended up being confusing for me. It feels good at the time but then it causes confusion later, and, for me, a painful attachment.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 27, 2004, at 19:56:21
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by Joslynn on October 27, 2004, at 8:53:10
> That sounds like a good plan. I tend to read a LOT into any sort of departure from the norm of therapy too. Even subtle boundary crossings ended up being confusing for me. It feels good at the time but then it causes confusion later, and, for me, a painful attachment.
Yeah, I hear ya. Me too :-)
Posted by LG04 on October 27, 2004, at 23:20:55
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by alexandra_k on October 27, 2004, at 19:56:21
I'm curious, why do you think it happens that a boundary crossing, even subtle, causes a painful attachment?
LG
Posted by Joslynn on October 28, 2004, at 9:25:16
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by LG04 on October 27, 2004, at 23:20:55
Well, if it's a male T, and he did things like go over the alloted time, compliment my appearance or reveal something about his personal life, I would start feeling like there is an emotional connection that feels somewhat romantic, over time. That kind of thing is a setup for heartache, for me. Because eventually the bubble bursts. I would rather have things be more structured from the start, so that the bubble doesn't get created.
This wouldn't happen to me with a woman though.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 16:26:09
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries » LG04, posted by Joslynn on October 28, 2004, at 9:25:16
I think that for me the boundary issue (not that there is just one of those, but this particular boundary issue) is about what sort of attachment my T has for me. Am I an interchangable client with an allotted time slot comperable to similar clients dealing with similar stuff; or am I 'special' or 'different' or cared about as a unique individual in some way.
I do fantasise about the latter happening, but that is probably becuase it is always nice to think that other people care about you because they like you as an individual. But if a T does this then I think that it is a sign that the T has gotten too involved. If they do this then I reciprocate (it is so easy to care so much when one feels cared about so much) and then things do get built up into something unhealthy (unhealthy for me at any rate).
I am not saying that therapists shouldn't say that they care about or like a patient becuase of some nice personal qualities they have or anything like that. But I do think that one shouldn't 'bend the rules' - or at least not so many of them, not so very often - just becuase they particularly like a client.
What will happen if she 'gets over' her over-interest in me? I will be very hurt indeed.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 16:27:36
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries » LG04, posted by Joslynn on October 28, 2004, at 9:25:16
Posted by Daisym on October 29, 2004, at 18:21:25
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries » Joslynn, posted by alexandra_k on October 28, 2004, at 16:26:09
I agree and disagree with you, I think. (now there's an ambiguous sentence!) I think your therapist should have good boundaries that are flexible enough to meet the needs of all her clients. You might need something extra every now and then, or you might be struggling with something her other clients aren't. On the other hand, I see the set up you are talking about.
I guess what I mainly disagree with is this idea that your therapist can't care about YOU...but can only care about a CLIENT. As if there were generic caring about generic clients. You can't teach caring in college, and it comes from a connection to an individual. I want my therapist's caring to be individual, not that I'm singled out as special, but rather that he cares about me and my problems, as opposed to he cares about ALL his clients. I don't know if I'm getting across what I mean... Once I said something about him not thinking about me between sessions and he was really hurt and insulted. He said he worries about his clients, thinks about them often, notices when he hasn't heard from them and smiles when he sees something that reminds him of them. And he does specifically mention, "I thought of you last Saturday, when..."
Just something to keep in mind.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 5:16:27
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries » alexandra_k, posted by Daisym on October 29, 2004, at 18:21:25
Hi Daisy, thanks for your post. I am not sure where I stand on the second paragraph.
> I guess what I mainly disagree with is this idea that your therapist can't care about YOU...but can only care about a CLIENT. As if there were generic caring about generic clients. You can't teach caring in college, and it comes from a connection to an individual. I want my therapist's caring to be individual, not that I'm singled out as special, but rather that he cares about me and my problems, as opposed to he cares about ALL his clients. I don't know if I'm getting across what I mean... Once I said something about him not thinking about me between sessions and he was really hurt and insulted. He said he worries about his clients, thinks about them often, notices when he hasn't heard from them and smiles when he sees something that reminds him of them. And he does specifically mention, "I thought of you last Saturday, when..."
I just don't know. I mean, I care about my work, and I think of it a great deal outside work hours, and so I am sure that being a clinician is no different. I guess that maybe I am one of those people who needs pretty solid boundaries though, and perhaps more restrictive rather than liberal ones. I mean, everyone is different but for me I would be ok with a T who had a no touching, no gifts etc policy. Other people might find this overly restrictive. This is something that I think about a great deal though and I am not really sure what I think at the end of the day. I just don't know...
Posted by daisym on October 30, 2004, at 15:20:56
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries, posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 5:16:27
Maybe there are two different questions:
Do therapist "really" care about their clients as individuals, not "just" because they are clients? (I would argue, yes...)
Why don't you want your therapist to care about you, as an individual? Is it safer to just be one of her clients? If so, why? Do those really tight boundaries help contain your own feelings about her?
I don't know, I'm just asking. As far as tight boundaries, I guess I'm OK with sort of center of the road. This might be my age, or the fact that I work in a business where we have rules in a very similar fashion, so I often have to make judgements from the other side about what the intent of something is. Complicated, isn't it?
Posted by alexandra_k on October 30, 2004, at 20:03:43
In reply to Re: Worried about T1's Boundaries » alexandra_k, posted by daisym on October 30, 2004, at 15:20:56
Thanks for responding, it is interesting to me to think about this, and interesting to hear anothers perspective. I think that probably different therapists have different degrees of attachment for different clients, but I would like to think that in my case I am 'cared about' (ie treated with respect, attempted to be helped etc) simply in virtue of being allocated to a clinician.
Where I am coming from on this is that I take termination personally. There was nobody who would work with me and I took that very personally indeed. Then when I was picked up by a p-doc I told him that I didn't know how I felt about that. Him working with me not because he wanted to, but because he 'felt sorry for me'.
He said that is wasn't personal. It wasn't a matter of 'wanting' or 'not wanting' to work with me. It wasn't a matter of him 'liking' or 'not liking' me. He said it was an ethical decision where I needed to work with someone and nobody else would and so (personal factors removed), it was the right thing for him to do.
I liked that way of looking at the situation.
I don't like thinking people are paid to care(I am reminded of Dr. Colin Ross - 'I didn't go to college for 10 years to be a rent a friend)
but I am worried about a clinician becoming personally attached to me in case their attachment interfeares with my needs and ends up being detrimental to me. Probably being personally attached to a client doesn't make it inevitable that it interfeares with a clients needs (??? I have no idea). But, I have a history of being abused by authority figures who become 'too attached' to me. So, yeah, I am probably a bit phobic.
This is the end of the thread.
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