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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Blossom on February 5, 2005, at 22:23:59
Hello everyone. Now I know that probably some of you will be jealous. Don't be. I'm not sure why I didn't catch on sooner, but I finally came to the realization at my session a couple of days ago that my (male) therapist is in love with me. I tried to tell me husband, but he thinks I'm crazy. But, girls, you know we have a sense about these things.
Back before Christmas, I told him that I didn't want to be a patient anymore, that I wanted to be considered someone who is well and normal, not someone in need of therapy. (And I feel that I have fully recovered from the issue that brought me to therapy in the first place). I basically said that I didn't think I needed to see him every week. He then said something that puzzled me: "Well, I certainly don't need to see YOU every week!"
I thought, "DUH! You're the therapist!!!"
Later, he told me that he would have to be gone for about a month. I responded that I would be on vacation part of that time anyway, and he immediately replied, "So you won't miss me?"
Then, when he came back, he called me, from his home phone on a Saturday morning to schedule an appointment to see me. Now he's given me his home address (He lives about 4 miles from me and passes my house almost every day), his home phone number, and his cell phone number.
When I finally saw him, he said something to the effect that I was at the top of his list to schedule me. That's funny. I'm really doing very well. Then during our session, he wanted to know exactly how it was not having him around. We spent quite a bit of time talking about the sometimes very intimate details of what happened to him while he was gone, and he ran the session almost 20 minutes over! I know that it was a violation of boundaries.
Now, I like him a lot, and before I realized that he felt this way about me, I didn't have any sexual feelings for him (he's more than twice my age).
The thing is, I am in the process of termination. Termination is hard enough as it is, and knowing too much about your therapist and having the line between "therapist" and "friend" blurred, and realizing that he is in love with you makes it VERY hard. Now I am not just losing my therapist, I am losing my friend. Besides this, I think we've started going down that very "slippery slope" if you know what I mean, and I don't want either of us to get into trouble, but I don't want to never see him again either. What should I do???
Blossom
Posted by Blossom on February 5, 2005, at 22:34:13
In reply to My therapist is in love with me!, posted by Blossom on February 5, 2005, at 22:23:59
For those of you who are enjoying the juicy details of this account, here's one more tidbit...
I was telling him how I had used the experience of the struggle I went through to help some other people who were dealing with the same thing. Then out of the blue, he said, "Blossom, if you are going to be counselling people, you need to understand something. You will come across people who are bright and articulate and kind and they will push your buttons. You need to understand your own vulnerability or you could wind up in serious trouble."
I have no intention of ever becoming a therapist or a counsellor or anything like that, so I thought it was a strange comment. I am still not sure if he really meant what he said as he said it, or if he was trying to tell me indirectly that this is what he personally was experiencing at that moment.
Hmmm
Posted by badhaircut on February 6, 2005, at 11:42:04
In reply to My therapist is in love with me!, posted by Blossom on February 5, 2005, at 22:23:59
I have to admit I was skeptical when I saw your subject line, but the facts you present are like a warning gong to me. My first therapist made the moves on me around termination time, doing the same stuff your T is: Giving 20 minutes of unexpected extra time, the apropos-of-nothing statements about a counselor's feelings, etc.
I think they may see the termination as a kind of opportunity for a new relationship. If he invites you to meet him for coffee or dinner, that's it: he's turned into a wolf.
You say
> before I realized that he felt this way about me, I didn't have any sexual feelings for him (he's more than twice my age)That doesn't quite say you're unequivocally uninterested in him NOW.... I think it's fair to predict that the gains you've made since starting therapy would be erased if you were to have an affair with him. A study said 80% of patients who had affairs with their therapists AFTER termination reported being harmed by it (http://kspope.com/sexiss/sex2.php), and most complaints filed with state agencies are for post-termination affairs.
The APA says to "consider talking to another therapist" about him putting the moves on you. You don't have to tell them who he is, if you're worried about getting him into trouble. On the other hand, if he does it with you, he's probably done it with others and will do it with others after you. (My T considered it a job perk.)
I think it's great that you keep your husband informed. But why on earth doesn't he believe you?!
There's an old Psychology Today article, but it doesn't say what a client should do, except beware the slippery slope:
http://cms.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19930501-000033.html
Posted by Shortelise on February 6, 2005, at 12:22:50
In reply to Re: My therapist is in love with me!, posted by badhaircut on February 6, 2005, at 11:42:04
Badhaircut has given you very good advice, and I hope you will follow it.
Were my T to suddenly make it obvious that he's interested in me, it would undermine everything we've done together, I would lose all respect for him, and I would doubt everything he'd ever said to me. It would destroy so much. I would ask him to - oh, I can't think of the term at the moment, but it's when one therapist talks to another about a patient. I would ask him to do that, and to refer me to someone new.
Blossom, this is so inappropriate on his part. You could do yourself so much harm if you were to participate. Could you talk with him, tell him how you are interpreting his signals, ask him if you are correct, and try to talk it through? Would that be possible?
ShortE
Posted by Blossom on February 6, 2005, at 18:22:37
In reply to relationship Blossom, posted by Shortelise on February 6, 2005, at 12:22:50
You're right, ShortE, I will have to say something about it, but it will be SO HARD, and I have butterflies in my stomach already, just thinking about it!
No matter what happens at this point, I can't see how things can turn out good.
Blossom
Posted by bent on February 7, 2005, at 8:43:42
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom, posted by Blossom on February 6, 2005, at 18:22:37
I hope you are able to say something to your T. When do you see him again? I hope you let us know how it goes. I think I agree with what others, and you, have said. This is a 'slippery slope' and one subtle move in the wrong way could destroy the therapy. Hopefully you can tell your T how you feel and that you fear what might happen. He sounds like a good guy and making you feel safe should be very important to him. I know the push-pull feeling of termination. I try so hard to pull away from my T yet at the same time I am so afriad of being without her. Its like when I pull away I want her to bring me back so that I dont have to leave. The fact that she doesnt do this is hard but tells me she doing what's right for me. It always seems to hurt me when I think that I will always 'feel' that I need her way more than she will ever need me. That is therapy I guess. Sucks, huh? :) Good luck talking to your T and let us know what happens.
Posted by Blossom on February 18, 2005, at 16:08:53
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom » Blossom, posted by bent on February 7, 2005, at 8:43:42
So I just had my session with my T yesterday. I decided to lie low and see what happened. I'm still convinced that he loves me, but I also think that he's professional enough to not do anything inappropriate. It's nice to feel special when you can feel safe at the same time. The thing is, he tells me so much about his private life. I guess that's kind of inappropriate. It makes me feel more like his friend than his client. I know where he lives, his telephone number, who his wife and kids are, and the arguments they have at home, what his favorite color is, what kind of car he wants to buy, what he gave his wife for Christmas, what kind of music he listens to, when he went to have surgery, what day and which hospital it would be at (I happened to be working at that hospital that day, and had I wanted to, could have gone into his hospital room and seen him there, all wrapped up and dressed down, if you know what I mean--what I scary thought!!!), the details of his surgery and the intimate details of the complications that resulted from hospital negligence (ewww!), his struggles with his mother-in-law, his car problems, his daughter's rough transition through puberty, etc, etc, etc.
Do you think he tells everybody this stuff? I hope not!
Anyway, you get my drift. And knowing all of this makes me feel like termination is going to be all the harder because it will be more like terminating a friendship just when its going well.
But then again, I am beginning to wonder if he ever will terminate me. We spent a good deal of time going over ground that we have spent a lot of time on already. I think he is having a hard time getting rid of me, and I am having a hard time making a move in that direction too. I want him to call the shot, even though I don't think I need him anymore, because as I said, it will be terrible to not see him anymore, especially since I see him around town all the time, so I won't be able to forget about him so easily!
Blossom
Posted by Shortelise on February 18, 2005, at 19:20:15
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom, posted by Blossom on February 18, 2005, at 16:08:53
Hi Blossom,
I think it might be important that you talk about this with your T, just to get it very clear what is really happening. As you know, we tend to get mixed up in transference and projection, etc., and it might be essential to your understanding of your therapeutic relationship for you and your T to talk this through. Would you find it helpful to check out with him how many of the signals you are reading are signals he is actually sending?
How long have you been seeing this T? And what were your primary concerns the ones that prompted you to see a T in the first place?
You make it clear that you understand that him telling you so much about his life is not appropriate, and probably few here would disagree, some very strongly. What are you hoping for from us here? I'm not clear if you're just airing things that are going on in your therapy, or if you feel in some way at risk. If you could be clearer about that, you might get a little more feedback. I would like to understand better.
Take care, Blossom.
ShortE
Posted by Blossom on February 18, 2005, at 19:58:56
In reply to Re: relationship » Blossom, posted by Shortelise on February 18, 2005, at 19:20:15
I dunno. I guess I felt at risk before, but after this week, don't feel so much so. Just sort of...confused and afraid about what to do. I do feel that knowing so much about him is not a good thing because it is going to make it so painful for me to end this relationship, which inevitably needs to happen, and probably, the sooner the better, because it's only going to get harder. I was going to bring it up to him this week, and then I sort of chickened out. I did tell him that I have passed the point where terminating therapy will get easier because of the kind of relationship that I have with him. I wonder if he realizes that he's making it harder. I wonder if it's getting harder for him. Surely he will experience pain too when this relationship ends if he keeps sharing so much with me.
Deep down, just like a lot of us here, I've formed this bond with my therapist, and now, I can't bring myself to say goodbye. How can I get the courage to do this???
Does that make sense or make things more clear? I guess I'm just pulled in two different directions emotionally. I just wish that I could be friends with him (and his family) and not end this relationship. But I guess that can't happen.
Blossom
Posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 19:59:18
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom, posted by Blossom on February 18, 2005, at 16:08:53
Maybe you can pursue some time consuming and or money consuming interests. Most people decide to quit going to therapy because they find that they eventually feel that their time and money could be put to better use. Maybe you could give that a little shove.
Clearly he's got bad boundaries, and that's practically guaranteed to arouse some complex feelings in you. That's the reasons the boundaries are strongly supported by the licensing bodies. My therapist has very good boundaries, but on those rare occasions when he does make me feel uncomfortable, I'm almost guaranteed not to tell him because I'd rather have the illusion of intimacy than good therapy. I think that's pretty natural. :) I'm lucky in that it doesn't happen often.
I think enticing yourself away from therapy that you seem to say you no longer really need is reasonable.
Posted by Blossom on February 18, 2005, at 21:35:02
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom » Blossom, posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 19:59:18
> Maybe you can pursue some time consuming and or money consuming interests. Most people decide to quit going to therapy because they find that they eventually feel that their time and money could be put to better use. Maybe you could give that a little shove.
>
It's funny that you should mention the time and money thing, because I am a graduate student, short on both. And I've thought a lot that I would like to save the money I spend on therapy. Maybe I should think about it a little more. ;)>
> Clearly he's got bad boundaries, and that's practically guaranteed to arouse some complex feelings in you. That's the reasons the boundaries are strongly supported by the licensing bodies.He was very good with boundaries for a while. I didn't know anything about him until about the time that I felt I was really getting to the point where I was feeling "normal" again. Then, I think it was about this time that he had a couple of tough spots in his own life. First a death in the family. I think I wrote about it here, but in brief, he came in and was obviously feeling very low, and I overheard him talking about the funeral with a colleague. After our session, I sent a note down to the receptionist to give to him when he went to his other practice later in the day, basically saying that I was sorry to hear of his loss, etc. Nothing mushy. Then he had a major surgery, like I said. Since I was in the hospital that day, I left a simple get-well note at the nurse's station. I wonder if maybe there was a reversal of roles there for a bit or something. But doesn't it seem like something that any of you would do for your T? Anyway, just musing...At any rate, he's obviously gotten very comfortable with me.
I actually terminated with him once before and then came back later. The first time, it wasn't like this at all, but that was before he got so familiar with me.
Hopefully, you're right, and the money and time thing will eventually win out. I'm really hoping that he'll annoy me or make me angry or something and I'll just WANT to forget about him.
Blossom
Posted by gardenergirl on February 19, 2005, at 8:57:18
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom, posted by Blossom on February 18, 2005, at 21:35:02
Hi Blossom,
I just wanted to share my own experience related to something you posted above. You said you wanted a friendship with him and his family, but you know that can't happen. I had a similar experience recently in therapy, although it involved wanting a professional relationship (and of course frienship that comes from working together) with my T. I really obsessed over this for awhile, all without telling him. I kept coming back to the same conclusion that it couldn't happen and would be a terrible idea. But still I kept wishing for it. It was very sad for me. I finally had to talk to my T about it, because it began to affect my behavior regarding therapy (I actually no-showed once, something I just don't do!). I finally told him all I had been thinking about and feeling about it. He responded beautifully. Now all the obsessive thoughts about it have essentially gone away after having talked about it. I really do feel much better about it.So I would encourage you to be very honest with your T about how you are feeling...the wishes and the reality. I think it would help. And it may also spur him to think about his own contributions, wishes, etc.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Blossom on February 21, 2005, at 9:53:52
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom, posted by gardenergirl on February 19, 2005, at 8:57:18
Thanks to gg, Dinah, and ShortE for your responses. I talked to my mom about it last night, and she agrees that even if I'm not in any danger or anything, the fact that he's so attached to me makes it likely that he can't be objective about my treatment anymore. So I guess that's a good reason to move on, too. I just hope I can get the courage to do what needs to be done!! Why do choices in life have to be so hard???
Blossom
Posted by Shortelise on February 21, 2005, at 12:39:05
In reply to Re: relationship Blossom, posted by Blossom on February 21, 2005, at 9:53:52
Blossom, I still think it's important to process this with him. It's important for therapy to end well. And it's not unusual for T's to disclose more as the end of therapy comes near.
It could take a lot of courage, but you might find it's very much worth spending a few sessions talking this out.
Take care.
ShortE
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